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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 1, 2016 14:27:41 GMT -5
If you take summer classes, can you finish in 4-1/2 years (or sooner)? Do you have any credits from previous college classes that will count? Depending on the program, hopefully once you're in you're second or third year, your university has strong industry connections and you can get a well-paid internship for summer and possibly the school year. I seriously doubt this. Engineering programs are 5 years and the classes that are needed are those that are only taught only once/year and they usually have a ton of prerequisites. I discovered this the past year, when we had a couple people in one class that did not have some of the basics. I'm guessing that they failed, as they never were able to finish up either their group individual project or make any progress on their individual project (both which comprised about 60% of the final grade). The internships tend to be about $15-17/hour around here....not particularly high paying for this field. There were a few guys who had internships during the summer and the companies wanted to keep them on, but the time commitment for classwork was too hefty, so they bailed. Maybe it's higher in NJ......
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 1, 2016 14:31:58 GMT -5
Do the engineer thing--work out the math for all the different scenarios. Well, I guess it's more of an accountant thing, but I do know engineers are all about math. Time & commute distance should also be factored in. (I do still wonder why, if you already have a bachelor's, you still need so many CC classes. I would imagine you could transfer at least one semester's worth. Sorry if you already went over this. I forget.) I had a MS, and I was going partially full time to complete an engineering technology degree as an AA. Granted, all of my elective credits (I didn't have to take math, calculus, chemistry, physics, English and a few other classes) were accepted but there are a buttload of very specific classes. What I found was that my undergraduate degree got rid of those, but it meant that I took 3-4 classes/semester when many of my classmates took 4-5.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Jul 1, 2016 15:35:14 GMT -5
If you take summer classes, can you finish in 4-1/2 years (or sooner)? Do you have any credits from previous college classes that will count? Depending on the program, hopefully once you're in you're second or third year, your university has strong industry connections and you can get a well-paid internship for summer and possibly the school year. I seriously doubt this. Engineering programs are 5 years and the classes that are needed are those that are only taught only once/year and they usually have a ton of prerequisites. I discovered this the past year, when we had a couple people in one class that did not have some of the basics. I'm guessing that they failed, as they never were able to finish up either their group individual project or make any progress on their individual project (both which comprised about 60% of the final grade). The internships tend to be about $15-17/hour around here....not particularly high paying for this field. There were a few guys who had internships during the summer and the companies wanted to keep them on, but the time commitment for classwork was too hefty, so they bailed. Maybe it's higher in NJ...... That is not a universal truth.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 1, 2016 15:42:17 GMT -5
I seriously doubt this. Engineering programs are 5 years and the classes that are needed are those that are only taught only once/year and they usually have a ton of prerequisites. I discovered this the past year, when we had a couple people in one class that did not have some of the basics. I'm guessing that they failed, as they never were able to finish up either their group individual project or make any progress on their individual project (both which comprised about 60% of the final grade). The internships tend to be about $15-17/hour around here....not particularly high paying for this field. There were a few guys who had internships during the summer and the companies wanted to keep them on, but the time commitment for classwork was too hefty, so they bailed. Maybe it's higher in NJ...... That is not a universal truth. OK....most of them that I have been associated with in one way or another are. I know that at my undergrad institution it was 5 years. I know that TD's degree took him 5 years at UBC. I know that the program that is associated with the tech degree I got is 5 years. I know that at the 3 universities where I used to work, it was a 5 year degree. It sounds like the institution that MJ is interested in, it's a 5 year degree. That's what counts.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 1, 2016 17:09:51 GMT -5
Yeah, I get that. Still, there's 2 semesters of English, and PoliSci or history, from what I recall. There's gotta be a couple more gen eds in there. These sum bitches took 3 classes. 3. WTF. I had to have 2 English, 4 social sciences, and one humanities/FA. Plus 2 of those classes had to be upper level!
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 1, 2016 17:14:06 GMT -5
MY just go for it. If you don't, in 5 years you are going to be in the plave, just 5 years older. You want this. You can do this.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 1, 2016 17:16:23 GMT -5
My undergrad requirements were English, 3 classes in liberal arts, 2 of which needed to be upper division and 3 classes in social sciences, also 2 of which needed to be upper division classes. 15 credits in all.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 1, 2016 17:17:17 GMT -5
MY just go for it. If you don't, in 5 years you are going to be in the plave, just 5 years older. You want this. You can do this.
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tcu2003
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Post by tcu2003 on Jul 1, 2016 20:29:10 GMT -5
My undergrad engineering degree could (and often was) done in 4 years. Ditto for friends that went to other schools - some took 4-1/2 years, but my arch-e friends are the only ones I know who had a 5-year program. Even the large school where I did my masters in engineering regularly graduated people in 4 years in the undergrad programs.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 20:33:55 GMT -5
What high school math level did you complete before starting an engineering degree... General question.
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tcu2003
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Post by tcu2003 on Jul 1, 2016 20:45:27 GMT -5
What high school math level did you complete before starting an engineering degree... General question. I did Calc I in high school, and took the AP Calc AB test, so also had college credit for Calc I and started with Calc II in college. That said, there were classmates who had only done PreCalc (or maybe Calc but hadn't gotten college credit) who started with Calc I without issue.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 20:49:17 GMT -5
Son has one more year of hs and has finished maybe a little past pre calc. But he just got back from engineering camp and said lots of other same stage kids had already completed AP calc... So I'm not sure what they will do next. And he felt unprepared.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jul 1, 2016 20:50:13 GMT -5
I'm surprised more schools don't do it the same way my alma mater does. They have a general education that every major must take. Each requirements has multiple options - except for like everyone had to take English 1 and 2 - though some are notated as required for the major (like I had to take oral communication for business majors not just the normal speech class).
It makes it real easy if you switch majors because you're not at the whim of whatever department the major is in and gives everyone a foundation and roundness to their education.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jul 1, 2016 21:01:12 GMT -5
I'm surprised more schools don't do it the same way my alma mater does. They have a general education that every major must take. Each requirements has multiple options - except for like everyone had to take English 1 and 2 - though some are notated as required for the major (like I had to take oral communication for business majors not just the normal speech class). It makes it real easy if you switch majors because you're not at the whim of whatever department the major is in and gives everyone a foundation and roundness to their education. Our University does this within each college or school..but the demands of the individual colleges and schools are quite different from each other.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 1, 2016 21:07:38 GMT -5
Son has one more year of hs and has finished maybe a little past pre calc. But he just got back from engineering camp and said lots of other same stage kids had already completed AP calc... So I'm not sure what they will do next. And he felt unprepared. My oldest son who will be a HS Junior this year is taking Calculus at the local cc this summer (his idea, definitely not mine) to make sure he's ready for his upcoming year of AP Calc BC. A little over half of the kids in his class will be taking AP Calc BC as well, with the remainder taking AP Calc AB and a few still in Algebra II/Trig. Senior year, those that took Calc BC will be in Calc III and Differential Equations. And yes, this is the nerdy one that got the insurance agency job. They must really like him I guess. They let him work whenever he wants and as much as he wants. And apparently he's somehow ended up with an office.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jul 1, 2016 21:13:44 GMT -5
I'm surprised more schools don't do it the same way my alma mater does. They have a general education that every major must take. Each requirements has multiple options - except for like everyone had to take English 1 and 2 - though some are notated as required for the major (like I had to take oral communication for business majors not just the normal speech class). It makes it real easy if you switch majors because you're not at the whim of whatever department the major is in and gives everyone a foundation and roundness to their education. Our University does this within each college or school..but the demands of the individual colleges and schools are quite different from each other. Ah. I wanna say it was two English, three history/cultural (huge selection that varies and could fit into majors of those colleges), a communications class, two math (huge selection you choose based on major), two social (things like economics, American history, psychology, anthropology, etc several choices), and two science (also many choices that'd be influenced by majors). Only English 1 and 2 have no choice - and I'd think every major would require that - the rest have enough to pick the option that lines up with your major/college requirements. It's 36 hours, so just over a year of classes. But 6 of the classes (or 18 hours, so half) were required for any major in the business college so it's not like I had the gen ed then college requirements then major requirements with no overlap. I think other colleges were similar in that given you major you had to take say American history instead of macroeconomics.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 21:20:39 GMT -5
Son has one more year of hs and has finished maybe a little past pre calc. But he just got back from engineering camp and said lots of other same stage kids had already completed AP calc... So I'm not sure what they will do next. And he felt unprepared. My oldest son who will be a HS Junior this year is taking Calculus at the local cc this summer (his idea, definitely not mine) to make sure he's ready for his upcoming year of AP Calc BC. A little over half of the kids in his class will be taking AP Calc BC as well, with the remainder taking AP Calc AB and a few still in Algebra II/Trig. Senior year, those that took Calc BC will be in Calc III and Differential Equations. So there is generally a higher calc after AP calc at high school level... I know there wasn't at my high school, lol. Yeah, he'll likely need to do maths at local tech college or university fall and spring next year then to 'catch up'... I'm guessing he'll miss statistics then... If that's the way he wants to go. We haven't talked yet. He's still decompressing. We need to figure it out soon though, I guess.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 1, 2016 21:27:50 GMT -5
What high school math level did you complete before starting an engineering degree... General question. Calculus was not offered at my high school. So I started out in Calc 1 as did most of my classmates. Times have changed considerably in the last 16 years and I think more kids are coming in with some Calc experience, but many will still take Calc 1 at the University because many engineering programs are picky about how you learn calculus.
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suesinfl
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Post by suesinfl on Jul 1, 2016 21:31:33 GMT -5
MY just go for it. If you don't, in 5 years you are going to be in the plave, just 5 years older. You want this. You can do this. I'm going to second this as it was one of many things that kept me going. I could be in my early 50s and still wishing I had done it sooner, or I could be in my early 50s and beyond and not have done it at all. It is a hard, scary decision to make, but in the end it will be well worth the time/money spent in the long run. I have faith in you, and know that you can do this!
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 1, 2016 21:31:49 GMT -5
I'm surprised more schools don't do it the same way my alma mater does. They have a general education that every major must take. Each requirements has multiple options - except for like everyone had to take English 1 and 2 - though some are notated as required for the major (like I had to take oral communication for business majors not just the normal speech class). It makes it real easy if you switch majors because you're not at the whim of whatever department the major is in and gives everyone a foundation and roundness to their education. What is a gen ed class? For engineering, Calc 1-3 and differential equations, plus chemistry, and physics are all general education requirements. My cousin had to take Calc 1 for her BA in psychology and archeology. My University had your first year as general engineering and then you could pick a specific major, but you aren't going from English to engineering easily even after one or two semsters.
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Jaguar
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Post by Jaguar on Jul 1, 2016 21:33:01 GMT -5
MJ2.0, do it in any way that you have to, cause 2 years will pass and you will kick yourself for the rest of your life. Bite that bullet and JUST DO IT! You can achieve this.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 1, 2016 21:36:07 GMT -5
My oldest son who will be a HS Junior this year is taking Calculus at the local cc this summer (his idea, definitely not mine) to make sure he's ready for his upcoming year of AP Calc BC. A little over half of the kids in his class will be taking AP Calc BC as well, with the remainder taking AP Calc AB and a few still in Algebra II/Trig. Senior year, those that took Calc BC will be in Calc III and Differential Equations. So there is generally a higher calc after AP calc at high school level... No idea if it's "generally" available, just describing what is available at my son's school. I went to the same school and when I was in high school, we also were in Calc AB or BC in Junior year, but then most of us took AP Statistics Senior year. Calc III and Differential Equations was offered at the local cc, but not at the high school.
It may have changed and also certainly varies by college, but there used to be a large difference in how the colleges viewed Calc AB and Calc BC. Calc AB wasn't widely accepted as "Calc" for college credit to fulfill a "Calc" requirement per se, most often just as a general math course, even with a 5 score; Calc BC was sometimes accepted as college "Calc" if you got a 5, but students were still encouraged to take calc at college to make sure they had that good foundation for the degrees that required advanced math.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 21:36:29 GMT -5
The prof running engineering camp is on the board of the local children's museum so I know her through there. Maybe I'll shoot her an email and see what she says. I assumed if he was going to try engineering he'd take Calc next (senior) year, but now I'm wondering if he actually needs two calcs, but maybe they'd rather he not bother at all and take stats ... Lol. So confusing and one of the reasons I wish this country had a more standardized curriculum some times.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jul 1, 2016 21:38:05 GMT -5
Our University does this within each college or school..but the demands of the individual colleges and schools are quite different from each other. Ah. I wanna say it was two English, three history/cultural (huge selection that varies and could fit into majors of those colleges), a communications class, two math (huge selection you choose based on major), two social (things like economics, American history, psychology, anthropology, etc several choices), and two science (also many choices that'd be influenced by majors). Only English 1 and 2 have no choice - and I'd think every major would require that - the rest have enough to pick the option that lines up with your major/college requirements. It's 36 hours, so just over a year of classes. But 6 of the classes (or 18 hours, so half) were required for any major in the business college so it's not like I had the gen ed then college requirements then major requirements with no overlap. I think other colleges were similar in that given you major you had to take say American history instead of macroeconomics. If as an engineering student you took all of those without starting on your math and science you would be so far behind. Calc 1 was a prerequisite for Physics 1. Physics 1 a prerequisite for statics, statics a prerequisite for mechanics of materials. That is 4 semsters of prerequisites required before you can take many of your entry level engineering courses. Eventually you have to take several higher level engineering courses to get your degree. I wanted to not take physics my second semester and my advisor said if you want a chance of graduating in 4 years, you cannot put it off, at all.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jul 1, 2016 21:46:23 GMT -5
Ah. I wanna say it was two English, three history/cultural (huge selection that varies and could fit into majors of those colleges), a communications class, two math (huge selection you choose based on major), two social (things like economics, American history, psychology, anthropology, etc several choices), and two science (also many choices that'd be influenced by majors). Only English 1 and 2 have no choice - and I'd think every major would require that - the rest have enough to pick the option that lines up with your major/college requirements. It's 36 hours, so just over a year of classes. But 6 of the classes (or 18 hours, so half) were required for any major in the business college so it's not like I had the gen ed then college requirements then major requirements with no overlap. I think other colleges were similar in that given you major you had to take say American history instead of macroeconomics. If as an engineering student you took all of those without starting on your math and science you would be so far behind. Calc 1 was a prerequisite for Physics 1. Physics 1 a prerequisite for statics, statics a prerequisite for mechanics of materials. That is 4 semsters of prerequisites required before you can take many of your entry level engineering courses. Eventually you have to take several higher level engineering courses to get your degree. I wanted to not take physics my second semester and my advisor said if you want a chance of graduating in 4 years, you cannot put it off, at all. You don't have to take the gen ed classes first, there's no requirement other then to take them. Calc 1 and physics 1 would both satisfy some of the gen ed requirements. All the engineering majors have it mapped out how to graduate in four years and that includes the gen ed requirements. It does include two summer sessions, but our state requires one unless you graduate high school with enough credits via AP tests or dual enrollment so it's only one extra one.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 1, 2016 21:50:29 GMT -5
The prof running engineering camp is on the board of the local children's museum so I know her through there. Maybe I'll shoot her an email and see what she says. I assumed if he was going to try engineering he'd take Calc next (senior) year, but now I'm wondering if he actually needs two calcs, but maybe they'd rather he not bother at all and take stats ... Lol. So confusing and one of the reasons I wish this country had a more standardized curriculum some times. Does your son do any computer programming? I can't remember if you mentioned that or if I'm confusing that with someone else's son. If he does like to program or has an interest in programming, especially graphics or games, he might actually really enjoy taking calc because he'll find so much of it useful for making realistic graphics and movement. My son is by no means any sort of math prodigy (math is one of the more challenging things for him because of the memorization and also his personal tendency to not have much interesting in buckling down and gritting through the parts he doesn't find interesting), but he researched and taught himself a few calc concepts just to use in the programming.
Just putting it out there that your son might enjoy it or at least find it very useful. I really liked Statistics and used it often in finance and auditing, but think probably for most engineers, Calc is much more useful. If he needs to choose. There's no reason he couldn't do both - one isn't a prerequisite for the other.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 22:08:03 GMT -5
He does some. He's taken some game development classes.
I just looked and the book next in the curriculum we've been using says it preps for AP calculus BC, as best I can figure I was right in that the book he just finished is more than pre calc but not through AB so somewhere in the middle.
Eta: some say the next book only goes half way through BC... grr.
He likes statistics, although never took a full course. From camp he liked sessions on pharma, electrical and statistics.
It was a cool program. Not sure if your son might like it? Kids flew in from all over. They had sessions in tons of different types of engineering.
Im not sure he's going to go the engineering route. He's been keeping his options open and at this point, while I don't really want to limit a 17 year old, it is time we need to focus maybe on what he thinks his first interaction might be...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 22:26:29 GMT -5
Why do you want to be an engineer? Have you been around engineers and know what the various types do? Were you always good at advanced math, etc. courses and now, in retrospect, think, "Why didn't I pursue that". What is your motivation?
I believe in you just as much as everyone else on this board does. But five years is a lot of time to spend on a second degree. If there isn't some burning desire in you to be an engineer because you know what engineers do, etc., aren't there other degrees that you could get more quickly that pay well?
I know I am raining on your parade here or feeding your worst fears. But I think a lot of people are glossing over the difficulties of financing this. Can you borrow enough? You don't think you will be able to find a part-time job but you still have full-time obligations to your ex and your son.
If you are really certain that this is the path to pursue, can you talk to your ex? He might be willing to work with you on some of these issues. Is he getting the child care credit and/or exemption for your son? Do you alternate it? You may be able to trade some of this for not paying the child care part, etc. TALK to him . . . If your relationship allows that. It is in his and your son's best interest for you to earn more money.
Good luck!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 22:28:50 GMT -5
What Susana says bears thinking about...
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jul 1, 2016 22:38:36 GMT -5
That's why I think starting out part-time is advisable.
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