Fighting Over A Child

[Deleted]

My youngest nephew is 8yo. He's lived with my Mom and brother since he was about 1yo. When he came to live with them his Mom was an alcoholic (not a "functioning" alcoholic, just drunk all day and night), to the point that she didn't even make her older, early teen kids go to school. Her oldest son is serving a long prison sentence now and her daughter is a prostitute.

She would come see my nephew occasionally over the years and my brother would take him to her sister's house so he would know and could play with his cousins. These last few of years, he's spent some nights and weekends with her and her family. But within the last year or so, every once in a while, she wouldn't want to bring him back and they'd have to talk her into it.

A few weeks ago, my nephew was at the sister's house and his Mom showed up and took him with her, saying she was keeping him. She went to his school the next school day (but didn't bring him) and introduced herself as his Mom and asked if they had a copy of his SS card. My Mom has always handled most things concerning his education and they know her at the school, so his teacher called her and told her. It was the last week or so of school and he didn't come back before the school year ended.

She won't let my Mom or brother see him or even talk to him on the phone. She says she's gotten herself together and she wants her son with her. If that's true, I can understand that, but I think the way she's gone about it is shitty. They didn't keep her from seeing and talking to him even when she was clearly a hot mess.

My brother never got legal custody (like we told him to!), so now he's retained an attorney to try to force her to at least let him see him.My nephew is a sweet kid, well mannered, makes all A's and B's at school, he's been clothed and fed, problems have been addressed like when he needed speech therapy they took him, blah blah blah...... it's not like he hasn't been taken care of and needed "rescuing".

I don't think she's wrong for wanting her son if she's doing better, but I think the years my Mom and brother have taken care of him without her should count for something and it's wrong for her to try to keep them from him now. And I wonder what my nephew is thinking. What do you all think about this situation?

[snapdragon]

All I can think is that your nephew must be very confused at this. Especially if he has not been allowed to use the phone.  I would assume that speaking on the phone to his nanna and dad would help in this situation but maybe not for his mom.

[swamp]

I think that your brother needs to hire a lawyer NOW and do an emergency application to return custody to him.

She won't get custody, and may end up with supervised visits after she pulled that crap.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

What do you all think about this situation?


I think that sometime in the last 6 years where your mom and brother were sole caregivers for your nephew, that they should have put some legal guards in place.  Did mom get his SS#?  Can his grandmother/dad put some sort of credit lock on him?

[milee]

I'm so sorry your family is going through this. It is so hard for the adults in a situation like this where one of the adults isn't being reasonable and the other adult has to suck it up so the kid doesn't suffer. It's also too bad your brother didn't file for sole custody earlier.

Every state is different, but unless your brother has been neglectful or has some other big issue, then he should be able to get joint custody of the little guy.  When your brother has the nephew, then he can make sure your mom gets time with the little guy, too.  Unfortunately in most states, grandparents don't have legal rights to visitation or custody. 

One thing your brother might want to do some soul searching on is how much of the nephew's care the brother was actually doing.  That will probably come up in the custody hearing.  If this is a case of bro lives with grandma and grandma does most of the nephew care other than the times bro drops nephew off with the mom's sister, that won't make bro look good.  But if bro is a self-supporting, working guy who does most of the nephew care and the nephew is only at mom's sis' house once a month, that looks more like bro is a responsible dad.  In either case, bro will still be entitled to visit with the little guy and may even get primary custody, but facts like that can play into the custody split and how much visitation/custody bro or mom gets.

[Deleted]

Jun 27, 2016 10:45:41 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

What do you all think about this situation?


I think that sometime in the last 6 years where your mom and brother were sole caregivers for your nephew, that they should have put some legal guards in place.  Did mom get his SS#?  Can his grandmother/dad put some sort of credit lock on him?

We told my brother more than once that he needed to set things up legally and make it official, so I agree with you. But he never did it. I don't think the school gave her any information. But she's his Mom, I'm pretty sure she can get his SS # through the proper channels. My Mom hasn't said anything about a credit lock.

As for the rest, my brother works, my Mom is retired. My brother made sure there was money for what he needed and did stuff with him, my Mom handled a lot of the details for him, like making appointments, buying his clothes, and she handled most of the school stuff that happened in the daytime, etc. Some day to day things, they both did, like taking him to school and picking him up and cooking. I guess similar to how some married couples handle things when there's a SAHS lol.

ETA: My nephew never visited his Mom or her family regularly, not even once a month. Mostly, just whenever they would call and ask to see him. Or my brother would ask the sister if he could come play with his cousins.

[milee]

Jun 27, 2016 11:29:18 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Jun 27, 2016 10:45:41 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

What do you all think about this situation?



As for the rest, my brother works, my Mom is retired. My brother made sure there was money for what he needed and did stuff with him, my Mom handled a lot of the details for him, like making appointments, buying his clothes, and she handled most of the school stuff that happened in the daytime, etc. Some day to day things, they both did, like taking him to school and picking him up and cooking. I guess similar to how some married couples handle things when there's a SAHS lol.

ETA: My nephew never visited his Mom or her family regularly, not even once a month. Mostly, just whenever they would call and ask to see him. Or my brother would ask the sister if he could come play with his cousins.

That sounds reasonable and is probably how he should describe it. The courts are used to hearing - and very weary of - the dads who aren't really any better parents than the loser moms.  It sounds like your bro was more involved than that, but if he describes the situation similar to how it sounded in OP, the courts may assume he's another one of those dads that they sadly see so many of... the ones that live with mom/grandma because they can't support themselves and mom/grandma is not only providing the housing but doing most of the child care as well.  If bro is supporting both his kid and your mom/grandma plus doing dad stuff, that's something he should be clear about.  Because the other statements - he lives with mom who does most of the kid care stuff - will not help his case.

That probably sounds harsh like I'm dogging on your brother who is doing his best.  I'm not - I'm trying to give you an idea what the court will be seeing.  In most states if both parents are in the picture, the only two people here with legal standing and claim to custody/visitation are mom and dad.  Grandma and aunt (mom's sis) don't have standing, so their care isn't as relevant.  Yes, mom is obviously a hot mess, but if mom can show that dad isn't much involved and that grandma does most of the care and support, then dad doesn't look like any better parent than mom.  After all, mom can claim the support of sis just like dad can claim support of grandma. 

[Chocolate Lover]

That poor kid must be confused. He barely knows the woman, mother or not, from the sounds of what you're telling us Pink.

I didn't put my step son's mother on the list of people he could leave with for the school until he was in 4th or 5th grade. (Yes, his father/my DH was perfectly fine with that, and when he said he was ok with doing it, we did it.) They had a similar relationship. Still do, but at least he knows who she is at that age. 

Good luck to your brother!

[Deleted]

Jun 27, 2016 11:53:15 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Umm what Swamp said.  You can have an emergency custody hearing within days.   

He has an attorney now. I don't know what's suppose to be happening or when. I haven't had time to get a whole update these last few days. My Mom is long-winded sometimes.

[cronewitch]

Good luck doing what is best for the child. I had a coworker take his bother's kids. The uncle was a head electrician 35 years on the job but when he got two toddlers he moved in with his mom. Grandma got them off to school but he picked them up and did most things for them, they adored him. His brother went to prison and the mother was on drugs, I hope he gets to keep them forever and got paperwork.
My ISO's half sister had a son at 14 when she was on drugs. She kept getting her mom to babysit then taking off for a week or two the getting her son back and leaving with him. At 10 months old grandma said she wouldn't babysit without daughter signing adoption papers. So when the son was about 10 the mom started to straighten up but the grandma wouldn't give him back. As a teen she let him go to his mom for Christmas and summer. The mom didn't get him back until he was 18. He is about 36 now with a wife and kids and close to his mom, grandma died 10 years ago, mom has been good for about 25 years.
Coworker on crack went to drug rehab and her sister took her daughter. When she got out the sister wouldn't give her back until she went to court and had to try to prove she wasn't an unfit mother. Later she was homeless and on drugs with custody of her daughter.

[toomuchreality]

Literally fighting over child...

  Many years ago, I heard a lot of yelling outside. When I looked out my front window, I saw neighbors across the street (husband and wife) arguing. Husband decided to leave. He grabbed their approximately 6-9 month old baby and put it in the car with him (no car seat). The mom/wife busted out the windshield with a sledge hammer, while the kid and dad were in the car, to try and stop them from leaving. It was summer so the windows on their car were rolled down. They were both still screaming. As the husband started backing out, the wife reached in and grabbed one arm of the child. The husband had hold of the other and they were literally pulling the kid in two! That's when I called 911. Thankfully, police were there in seconds. I didn't watch the rest.




I wish you and your family all the best, @pinkcshmere.
It's got to be tough.

[suesinfl]

Pink, that is such a sad situation for all involved, but especially the child. I hope that your brother and mom can keep him in what sounds like a nice living environment.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jun 28, 2016 4:55:56 GMT -5 toomuchreality said:

Literally fighting over child...

  Many years ago, I heard a lot of yelling outside. When I looked out my front window, I saw neighbors across the street (husband and wife) arguing. Husband decided to leave. He grabbed their approximately 6-9 month old baby and put it in the car with him (no car seat). The mom/wife busted out the windshield with a sledge hammer, while the kid and dad were in the car, to try and stop them from leaving. It was summer so the windows on their car were rolled down. They were both still screaming. As the husband started backing out, the wife reached in and grabbed one arm of the child. The husband had hold of the other and they were literally pulling the kid in two! That's when I called 911. Thankfully, police were there in seconds. I didn't watch the rest.




I wish you and your family all the best, @pinkcshmere .
It's got to be tough.

Stories like this make me think you should need a license before you're allowed to have children.   

There is no way I could be a cop, I wouldn't have been able to keep a level head seeing something like that.

[Shooby]

  I think that entitled people do exactly what she did.  Let others step in and do the hard work, then swoop in when it is convenient without so much as a Thank You.  
  Obviously, brother needs an attorney.  It is too bad she wants to be so selfish.  She should put her child first.  

[cronewitch]

Jul 2, 2016 6:35:26 GMT -5 Shooby said:

  I think that entitled people do exactly what she did.  Let others step in and do the hard work, then swoop in when it is convenient without so much as a Thank You.  
  Obviously, brother needs an attorney.  It is too bad she wants to be so selfish.  She should put her child first.  

I had a coworker take her niece's daughter because she called from another state and said they were homeless. She had them move in then told the mother to go to beauty college or she couldn't live with her. The mother dropped out and partied instead so she kicked her out and kept the toddler. So after she had her 6-7 years the girl was 11 in ballet and the mother shows up bragging that was her daughter. Her mother had taken her son. So she was a single mother of two without any cost or trouble raising her kids but still wanted bragging rights. She will probably expect her kids to support her in old age too. The daughter wanted to be adopted so they were considering it.

[thyme4change]

I had a coworker take custody of her neice, but did so with a legal guardianship. I think it was more for health benefits, maybe, but she was a smart lady. If her messed up family needed her, she knew how to at least protect the kids in the long run.

[toomuchreality]

Then there are the people who leave their kids with you, just for a minute, while they go buy a pack of cigarettes...  15+ years later, they still haven't come home.

Gotta make you wonder.

[Deleted]

My   goes out to the nephew, and hope his life settles again, quickly.