Female tradespeople - thoughts?

[MJ2.0]

I came across a job posting looking for women to train as carpenters. It was a 5 year program that was paid 100% of the way through. Beginning wage was around $18/hr and by the end the wage rose to over $45/hr. I thought that was pretty interesting.

What are your thoughts and/or experiences with female tradespeople (plumbers, carpenters, electricians)? I know we have at least one on the boards - Apple

[NancysSummerSip]

I'd be interested, but investigate it first. Make sure it is not something that makes the trainees pay first. Make sure the teaching program is licensed, bonded and insured, and the instructors/carpenters are fully trained themselves. I'd run a Google search on the training program, just to see if anything untoward comes up in the media about it. Also check the local/state civil records for lawsuits and the secretary of state website, to see if they are incorporated, for how long and who the company principals are. Then run a check on each of them.

If this is in NJ, you can do civil and criminal checks on individuals online now. You won't pick up traffic stuff or lesser misdemeanors, but you will get felony charges and and misdemeanors that happened at the same time.

Personally, I'd be intrigued by such a program. Not sure if a local tech/trade school is a shorter program, but the money sounds really good.

[NastyWoman]

 To what Nancy said. But also research whether there is an established group of females in that trade and try to find out whether gender discrimination is a big problem in that trade. You may be up for being a trail blazer, but maybe that is more than you want to take on. 
When I got my degre in Chem, there were few women in the field in the area I lived. But it may be easier to proof you are cutting it in a purely cerebral field than in a trade --- and it was not always "easy" to put it politely.

[andi9899]

We have a summer camp for girls teaching them trades like this going on next weekend. It's pretty interesting I think.

[dannylion]

I don't understand why there would be any problem.

Sure, there will be idiots who will complain about female tradespeople, but the world is knee-deep in idiots.  They will eventually find some new nonissue to be outraged about and forget they are mad about female tradespeople.  Everyone is better off just ignoring them.

[milee]

Jun 5, 2016 15:45:13 GMT -5 dannylion said:

I don't understand why there would be any problem.

Sure, there will be idiots who will complain about female tradespeople, but the world is knee-deep in idiots.  They will eventually find some new nonissue to be outraged about and forget they are mad about female tradespeople.  Everyone is better off just ignoring them.

Oh, I can see where there could be a problem. And depending on the severity of the problem the effects on the female trainees could range from mildly annoying shrug it off to life threatening.  Not saying that it is definitely a lethal situation and you will die if you work there, but pointing out that shrugging it off isn't always an option depending on the type of work and type of harassment.

The cynic in me suspects that this organization has either had their socks sued off them for discrimination and as part of the settlement is required to implement these types of measures to address past issues or is attempting to go after certain government work that requires certain hiring practices.  IMHO, it's a red flag that should be investigated before taking on that training.  Could be a nightmare situation or could be a great opportunity - no way to know without researching.

[MJ2.0]

this is the program:
www.northeastcarpenters.org/sisters

I am a bit intrigued and did fill out an interest form.  There's some sort of informational meeting on 7/10 but you have to fill out an application via phone (which I thought was weird).  I really want to get into the construction field and ideally into project management, so even though I'm basically set up for engineering school (nothing's been paid out yet though), carpentry is still pretty related IMO.  My thoughts are a lot of what NastyWoman brought up re: gender discrimination and sexual harassment.  I've never experienced that before and I'm not terribly eager to subject myself to it.

[Deleted]

Or they just know that if they can have women in trade they are better positioned to secure federally funded jobs which require a specific percentage of 'nontraditional' employees. 

[milee]

Jun 5, 2016 15:54:10 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

this is the program:
www.northeastcarpenters.org/sisters

I am a bit intrigued and did fill out an interest form.  There's some sort of informational meeting on 7/10 but you have to fill out an application via phone (which I thought was weird).  I really want to get into the construction field and ideally into project management, so even though I'm basically set up for engineering school (nothing's been paid out yet though), carpentry is still pretty related IMO.  My thoughts are a lot of what NastyWoman brought up re: gender discrimination and sexual harassment.  I've never experienced that before and I'm not terribly eager to subject myself to it.

Don't give up on it, but just check it out. It does sound like a potentially great program.

Go to the informational meeting and ask one of the HR type people there why they are offering the program.  Their answer will give some clues.  Maybe they'll flat out say they're addressing prior discrimination.  Maybe they'll give some vague answer about "wanting to increase" the percent of women (which would tell me they're not being honest, but who knows?) 

[tloonya]

Jun 5, 2016 15:07:08 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

I came across a job posting looking for women to train as carpenters. It was a 5 year program that was paid 100% of the way through. Beginning wage was around $18/hr and by the end the wage rose to over $45/hr. I thought that was pretty interesting.

What are your thoughts and/or experiences with female tradespeople (plumbers, carpenters, electricians)? I know we have at least one on the boards - Apple

Have I had ever mentioned I hanged a chandelier and repair a washer and installed memory stick into friend's computer and

repaired washer again when it stopped spinning (just days ago).

Like each task for the first time.

Wait! Am I a man?  That's explains me hate shaving...

[MJ2.0]

I did a little digging and I can't find anything in recent history about a lawsuit.  Looks like they're trying to reach a wider audience.  I found this article that was a pretty fascinating read:
www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/real-estate/2016/05/05/moms-make-strides-forge-way-into-construction-industry/kJJd6FQldp63aNJQr39enK/story.html
so it looks like this union is not the only one trying to increase the number of nontraditional workers.  I can't believe some of these women were working until the delivery of their babies!

[tloonya]

My red haired pretty woman friend got into an owning Ambulances

business. When I was her after a couple of years she looked exactly

like Sharlese Theron in Monster movie...I swear.

Now she is out of it and she looks like herself again.

So be careful ladies...men job tend to take its toll on us.

[dannylion]

Jun 5, 2016 15:50:53 GMT -5 milee said:

Jun 5, 2016 15:45:13 GMT -5 dannylion said:

I don't understand why there would be any problem.

Sure, there will be idiots who will complain about female tradespeople, but the world is knee-deep in idiots.  They will eventually find some new nonissue to be outraged about and forget they are mad about female tradespeople.  Everyone is better off just ignoring them.

Oh, I can see where there could be a problem. And depending on the severity of the problem the effects on the female trainees could range from mildly annoying shrug it off to life threatening.  Not saying that it is definitely a lethal situation and you will die if you work there, but pointing out that shrugging it off isn't always an option depending on the type of work and type of harassment.

The cynic in me suspects that this organization has either had their socks sued off them for discrimination and as part of the settlement is required to implement these types of measures to address past issues or is attempting to go after certain government work that requires certain hiring practices.  IMHO, it's a red flag that should be investigated before taking on that training.  Could be a nightmare situation or could be a great opportunity - no way to know without researching.

Forty years ago I was one of the first women in a military career field that had never had women in it before.  I was often the only woman on the site.  I don't need a lecture.  I've been there.  Even if there is opposition, it is possible to survive and thrive. 

[MJ2.0]

Jun 5, 2016 16:19:04 GMT -5 tloonya said:

My red haired pretty woman friend got into an owning Ambulances

business. When I was her after a couple of years she looked exactly

like Sharlese Theron in Monster movie...I swear.

Now she is out of it and she looks like herself again.

So be careful ladies...men job tend to take its toll on us.

uh, I'm pretty sure I'd continue to like dressing up and looking after my health and appearance regardless of what career path I take.

[tloonya]

Jun 5, 2016 16:39:18 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

Jun 5, 2016 16:19:04 GMT -5 tloonya said:

My red haired pretty woman friend got into an owning Ambulances

business. When I was her after a couple of years she looked exactly

like Sharlese Theron in Monster movie...I swear.

Now she is out of it and she looks like herself again.

So be careful ladies...men job tend to take its toll on us.

uh, I'm pretty sure I'd continue to like dressing up and looking after my health and appearance regardless of what career path I take.

You will never know unless you changed into a plumber...would you?

I can't seem imagine plumber woman comes to my house all dressed

up as a singing telegram and sticking her hand into my toilet saying

'do you shit in there'?

[Sharon]

Here is another thing you can check out.  It is an organization for women in construction.  My sister belongs since she is an office manager at a company in the trades. 

[tloonya]

Jun 5, 2016 17:08:56 GMT -5 Sharon said:

Here is another thing you can check out.  It is an organization for women in construction.  My sister belongs since she is an office manager at a company in the trades. 

Does she look...girly?

[tloonya]

I have a lot of friends who are truck drivers and their worse curse is

'I wish you had sex with a truck driver woman'...they laughing their

butts off about it.

[mroped]

Women in trades is more common than people think!
I know quite a few that are electricians and carpenters. One of them, a very good carpenter, runs her own business, has maybe 10 employees but she prefers working in the field rather than playing boss. She's a hell of a rough framing carpenter and floors installer.
Electrical and gas work also has plenty of women in the field.
I even had myself a women working for about a year, slinging mortar and cutting stone. She had a very artistic eye but lacked on the physical strength/ endurance that is most of the time required.

What would get me about this program is the time period necessary for instruction -5 years!
That is longer than any aprenticeship that I've heard of.
Then is the wages question: $18/hr to $45/hr. Is the $18/hr at the start of the training or what/how?
That kind of wages in trades are paid only on prevailing wages jobs which means they have secured public funded projects and might be required to have a certain percentage of women. 

Around here, a carpenter's apprentice might make $15-$18/hr. Only the best make $30-$35.
Prevailing wages in Pa for carpenters II is about $22-25/hr plus fringe benefits which puts you to about $35.
 

[Deleted]

Jun 5, 2016 16:19:04 GMT -5 tloonya said:

So be careful ladies...men job tend to take its toll on us.

[/p][/quote]
Those jobs take their toll on men, too!

Seriously- it takes a lot of strength and stamina. I've done a lot of wall- painting and tiling and right now am in the middle of another tiling job. I'm dragging around 50-lb. bags of cement and stirring heavy mortar. I'm grateful to have the option at age 63 but I'm not doing it 8 hours a day, either.

[MJ2.0]

Jun 5, 2016 17:19:01 GMT -5 mroped said:

Women in trades is more common than people think!
I know quite a few that are electricians and carpenters. One of them, a very good carpenter, runs her own business, has maybe 10 employees but she prefers working in the field rather than playing boss. She's a hell of a rough framing carpenter and floors installer.
Electrical and gas work also has plenty of women in the field.
I even had myself a women working for about a year, slinging mortar and cutting stone. She had a very artistic eye but lacked on the physical strength/ endurance that is most of the time required.

What would get me about this program is the time period necessary for instruction -5 years!
That is longer than any aprenticeship that I've heard of.
Then is the wages question: $18/hr to $45/hr. Is the $18/hr at the start of the training or what/how?
That kind of wages in trades are paid only on prevailing wages jobs which means they have secured public funded projects and might be required to have a certain percentage of women. 

Around here, a carpenter's apprentice might make $15-$18/hr. Only the best make $30-$35.
Prevailing wages in Pa for carpenters II is about $22-25/hr plus fringe benefits which puts you to about $35.
 

It's 5 years from pre-apprentice to apprentice to journey(wo)man. Your beginning wages (I take it to mean when you start the pre-apprentice program) are around $18/hr. Keep in mind that you live in a lower COLA than I do.

[milee]

Jun 5, 2016 16:22:23 GMT -5 dannylion said:

Jun 5, 2016 15:50:53 GMT -5 milee said:

Oh, I can see where there could be a problem. And depending on the severity of the problem the effects on the female trainees could range from mildly annoying shrug it off to life threatening.  Not saying that it is definitely a lethal situation and you will die if you work there, but pointing out that shrugging it off isn't always an option depending on the type of work and type of harassment.

The cynic in me suspects that this organization has either had their socks sued off them for discrimination and as part of the settlement is required to implement these types of measures to address past issues or is attempting to go after certain government work that requires certain hiring practices.  IMHO, it's a red flag that should be investigated before taking on that training.  Could be a nightmare situation or could be a great opportunity - no way to know without researching.

Forty years ago I was one of the first women in a military career field that had never had women in it before.  I was often the only woman on the site.  I don't need a lecture.  I've been there.  Even if there is opposition, it is possible to survive and thrive. 

I am very glad you survived and thrived; I respect your opinion and experiences.  As someone who has dealt with various harassing situations, I think it makes sense to point out the risks to younger women who may not have considered all the implications.  It's a lot different to deal with harassment in an office type setting than it is to deal with harassment in a setting with power tools and where much of your work happens in an inherently dangerous setting - like on a construction site.  These are things that people who might not have done much construction work or who might not have experienced much harassment might not consider.

[dannylion]

Jun 5, 2016 17:38:06 GMT -5 milee said:

Jun 5, 2016 16:22:23 GMT -5 dannylion said:

Forty years ago I was one of the first women in a military career field that had never had women in it before.  I was often the only woman on the site.  I don't need a lecture.  I've been there.  Even if there is opposition, it is possible to survive and thrive. 

I am very glad you survived and thrived; I respect your opinion and experiences.  As someone who has dealt with various harassing situations, I think it makes sense to point out the risks to younger women who may not have considered all the implications.  It's a lot different to deal with harassment in an office type setting than it is to deal with harassment in a setting with power tools and where much of your work happens in an inherently dangerous setting - like on a construction site.  These are things that people who might not have done much construction work or who might not have experienced much harassment might not consider.

Yeah, those loaded sidearms we were often wearing in that "office setting" were no danger at all.  

[milee]

Well I suspect MJ's not going to wear a sidearm nor are her coworkers...

[resolution]

One thing you may want to look into is how many hours are generally available. The $44 an hour is nice, but how frequently are jobs available at that rate? Would that be paid for a permanent full time position or is it intermittent when projects are going on?

DH is a carpenter and he thinks the wages listed are reasonable for a hcola, but you would want to look into how benefits are handled, are they purchased separately through the union and at what cost?

[tloonya]

Jun 5, 2016 18:52:37 GMT -5 resolution said:

One thing you may want to look into is how many hours are generally available. The $44 an hour is nice, but how frequently are jobs available at that rate? Would that be paid for a permanent full time position or is it intermittent when projects are going on?

DH is a carpenter and he thinks the wages listed are reasonable for a hcola, but you would want to look into how benefits are handled, are they purchased separately through the union and at what cost?

You talking...complicated. Cut me some slack yo

[resolution]

Jun 5, 2016 19:29:19 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Jun 5, 2016 18:52:37 GMT -5 resolution said:

One thing you may want to look into is how many hours are generally available. The $44 an hour is nice, but how frequently are jobs available at that rate? Would that be paid for a permanent full time position or is it intermittent when projects are going on?

DH is a carpenter and he thinks the wages listed are reasonable for a hcola, but you would want to look into how benefits are handled, are they purchased separately through the union and at what cost?

You talking...complicated. Cut me some slack yo

That's because I was talking to MJ2.0 .

[resolution]

Carpentry does keep people in great shape, although it can be hard on the back and shoulders in later years.

[8 Bit WWBG]

There was a post on another site from a female compliance inspector that was pretty scathing.  She talked about how the men would want to be excused for minor injuries, whereas she'd tape her fingernail back on and suck up the pain to avoid having to hear the jokes.  There was hazing, and she had to double down on the crass nonsense that they were spouting in order to "earn their respect" as it were.  Its definitely not for the faint of heart.

[chiver78]

Jun 5, 2016 15:54:10 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

this is the program:
www.northeastcarpenters.org/sisters

I am a bit intrigued and did fill out an interest form.  There's some sort of informational meeting on 7/10 but you have to fill out an application via phone (which I thought was weird).  I really want to get into the construction field and ideally into project management, so even though I'm basically set up for engineering school (nothing's been paid out yet though), carpentry is still pretty related IMO.  My thoughts are a lot of what NastyWoman brought up re: gender discrimination and sexual harassment.  I've never experienced that before and I'm not terribly eager to subject myself to it.

you don't need to be a carpenter to get into project management. have you looked into the Project Management Institute for a Project Management Professional certification? many of the folks I worked with in my last job in project management positions were degreed in various engineering disciplines.