kgb18
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Post by kgb18 on Mar 17, 2011 16:37:05 GMT -5
Time to pick holidays at work. I work in a profession where our office is staffed 365 days a year. So naturally someone has to work holidays, including the "Eves."
I've worked Christmas Days in the past. I've worked lots of holidays in the past. When I came back to this job, I knew I would have to work holidays again. The list was put out, and it was up to us to volunteer. I volunteered for Thanksgiving because 1) I know it's one of the more substantial holidays that they have trouble getting volunteers for; and 2) DH is always off on Thanksgiving, so I know I'll have childcare, unlike Christmas where I may not.
What does this all come down to? The younger folks are huffing and puffing. I've seen this before. Do they think they're exempt? Why would you pick a profession where you know you're going to have to work nights, weekends and holidays if you're not willing to do it?
Does anything else see this with younger employees?
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spartan7886
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Post by spartan7886 on Mar 17, 2011 16:53:03 GMT -5
I just got off a year long assignment where we worked 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Since I had a choice, I scheduled around Christmas and Thanksgiving, but I worked my birthday and my anniversary (12 hrs a day 200 miles out to sea, so not like I could come home and have dinner with DH). It's part of the job. I complained, but not seriously. That was about par for the course for most folks, young and old. Hands have to have something to complain about but when it comes down to it, that's what you signed up for so you do it. Then again, the oilfield (actually in the field anyway) doesn't tend to attract entitled brats. Something about having to physically work for 12 hours a day.
Now I'm back in the office supporting the same group, so I might be off officially, but I'm still on call so to speak unless I specifically get someone to cover for me. Most folks know the rules, but we did have one young man nearly get fired for not answering his phone for several days over Mardi Gras since he seemed to think if he wasn't in the office physically he didn't have to be available.
ETA: I forget I don't have enough posts for most people to know me, probably. I am 24, so I still qualify as a younger worker.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 17, 2011 17:06:36 GMT -5
I tend to see this with older employees actually. (well older than me, i'm 30, I see it most with those in the late 30's-early 50's range).
They have kids (or grandkids), they think the fact that they have families means they should have the day off with them and that the work for that day ought to be split up amongst those of us who don't have kids and therefore apparently have no holiday plans.
Add to that the fact that we have all major holidays off, but we limit people to taking either the day after Thanksgiving, or Christmas Eve off. Lots of people seem to think they should be entitled to both.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Mar 17, 2011 17:10:15 GMT -5
Yeah, it was like that 20 years ago too. I remember feeling pressure from family and friends (I suspect it was mostly imposed by ME rather than Family/friends) when I'd have to work a holiday - and I was salaried and not getting any extra pay... it sometimes sucked to be a programmer back in the olden days although the bonuses were nice... I always felt if I had to work Thanksgiving or New Years Eve or Memorial Day or the 4th of July that I was missing out on something... as I got older I got better squashing that "I'm missing out on the fun!" feeling cause you know - the holiday will be back around in no time and I really wasn't missing out on anything super special.
I have to admit KNOWING/Choosing ahead of time that I'd have to work a holiday was a whole lot better than being told on December 21st that the project was soooo behind schedule that we'd have to work straight thru Jan 5th and maybe still not make the deadline! (I HATED that manager - makes me wish I could beleive in hell so I could also believe there'd be a special place in it just for her.) Yes, I knew my job required 'doing whatever it took to get the job done' which meant working holidays - but did it still agrevated me that the reason I might have to work a holiday was because my manager was incompetent....
That said, I don't think it's anything new for employees to complain about having to work a holiday - I just think younger people might not be use to handling the pressure (implied or real) and planning that goes with having to work a holiday.
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doxieluvr
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Post by doxieluvr on Mar 17, 2011 19:39:37 GMT -5
I don't work holidays...period.
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Mardi Gras Audrey
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Post by Mardi Gras Audrey on Mar 17, 2011 19:49:53 GMT -5
They have kids (or grandkids), they think the fact that they have families means they should have the day off with them and that the work for that day ought to be split up amongst those of us who don't have kids and therefore apparently have no holiday plans. . THIS! I used to work in manufacturing and we worked 24-7. The people with kids (Especially the ones with kids who were older, like mid-20s) thought that they shouldn't have to work. It was horrible and bred a lot of resentment because our boss would actually back them up ("You don't know how important it is because you don't have kids". Didn't matter that their children were my age or older at the time). I remember one year she told me I couldn't take a day off to attend MY graduation from college but she gave another lady a week off for her daughter's high school graduation ("You don't know how important this high school grad is to her" ). I was amazed. The woman's daughter lived with her so I don't know what was going to take a week but it was very irritating. The other single folks and I always ended up working holidays because the "folks with families shouldn't have to". The worst part was when I then wanted to take time off in February (and other non-holiday months), no one would cover for me because it would impact their weekends...
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Post by debtheaven on Mar 17, 2011 19:53:31 GMT -5
I don't have to work holidays but I have a lot of people around me that do.
They make it work. My BFF here is a nurse. She's a Brit so she doesn't do Thanksgiving, but she has to do at least one shift, generally two, between Xmas Eve / X mas day and NY Eve and NY Day. Sometimes her kids got presents on Xmas Day, but sometimes they'd tell them that Santa was really busy. He knew they'd understand because they were extra-special so they got their gifts on Xmas eve.
DH's first cousins are both docs in the UK. They have very young kids and they actually love the holiday season because for once they can both be working / on call the same holiday weekend knowing that the grandparents are at home, rather than having to take turns. This said, they both work at the same hospital now, and they are both high enough on the ladder to request the same days. There were a few years when they couldn't get the same days off, and that was understandably difficult for them. Those years, when their kids were really small, well, sometimes Xmas came a week early LOL.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2011 19:54:09 GMT -5
When I worked retail, I was simply told what holidays to work. At Macy's, they paid you time-and-a-half plus gave you an extra day off so no one really complained. (They were closed on Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter.) At Parisian's, which is now Belk's, you had to ASK for the extra day and you got no extra pay. I remember not getting a holiday to make up for Memorial Day because I didn't know you had to ask. As if someone doesn't want a day to make up for it . . .
I do remember my favorite boss trying to fix it so that if you were an older woman, you didn't work Mother's Day. Have you ever noticed how many small restaurants (not your chains) are closed on Mother's Day so that the waitresses can have a day with their families?
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Post by debtheaven on Mar 17, 2011 19:59:08 GMT -5
This said, I don't think working a couple of holidays a year would bug me. But working every other weekend like my nurse friend does would.
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The J
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Post by The J on Mar 18, 2011 10:26:54 GMT -5
XF is a nurse -- she always had to work some of the holidays. The biggest complainers she saw were the older nurses, because they felt like (1) because they had families they should be exempt; and (2) they had done their holidays when they were younger, so younger people should have to do them now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2011 10:34:58 GMT -5
XF is a nurse -- she always had to work some of the holidays. The biggest complainers she saw were the older nurses, because they felt like (1) because they had families they should be exempt; and (2) they had done their holidays when they were younger, so younger people should have to do them now. My mom is a nurse and her hospital made it easy around Thansgiving, Christmas and New Year. The policy is simple: you have to work 2 out of the 3 holidays; and since they adopted it she said it really made life easier around that time.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Mar 18, 2011 10:43:46 GMT -5
I worked for one manager in a publicly held company that insisted we needed to be open New year's eve and christmas eve. We were the only Department in the company that was open - eveyone else was off. And there was virtually no activity. No one would have objected if we were closed. It would have been accepted and expected. She was just an abusive personality.
If you are in a profession that really needs to be open on holidays like a medical profession - then being able to chose your holidays would be nice. We have called a few holidays on a day other than the expected - Once we did Easter on Good Friday and we had almost all the family. We never manage that on Easter Sunday becasue people always have conflicts.
If you are single you should not be expected to give up your holiday. Especially if you are religious - what single people don't have to go to church for the high holy days anymore?
I think it is appropriate that people get extra pay on holidays. Then if certain people never work holidays they are giving something up. I think my SIL's friend is a nurse and she gets tripple or quadruple pay for working holidays. she and the hubby are both in medical profession and the work every holiday they can.
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Urban Chicago
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Post by Urban Chicago on Mar 18, 2011 10:53:15 GMT -5
Back when I was a wage slave, we had this too. However, the "eves" were usually slower days at work, so basically everyone had to work 1/2 the holidays. When I was the manager, I just put out the schedule about this time of year, and had everyone sign up for the holidays. If you didn't pick, I picked for you. On the few occasions when we didn't have enough volunteers for the holiday, I had to pick the least senior people to cover.
I have to agree that the parents were the worst complainers. I was also surprised the the holiday I always had the most trouble covering was the 4th of July.
Now I'm at a job where we actually close the week between Xmas and New Years, it is so awesome!
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reader79
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Post by reader79 on Mar 18, 2011 11:16:43 GMT -5
I get all of the major holidays off. I remember one year when the tyrant was still here, and she scheduled a meeting with a consultant on MLK. She didn't have it on her Outlook calendar, and she wouldn't admit that she forgot we were off. Rather than move it, she forced her assistant to come in on that day too. They had a fun time trying to figure out where the light switches were for our floor, as everything was shut off for the holiday.
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Mar 18, 2011 11:25:19 GMT -5
My wonderful DH is active duty military. Sometimes, he works holidays. Sometimes, he's deployed in war zones for months and months with no days off. Other times, he doesn't work holidays. His coworkers are in the same situation.
We make it work.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 18, 2011 11:53:14 GMT -5
I've worked very few retail jobs, so don't even remember if it was a problem. I worked in a bank for awhile, that was AWESOME, bc we were closed all the time. . My office jobs - I loved working the day after Thanksgiving bc no one else was there and you could either be really productive or do nothing. I don't celebrate Christmas, so don't care. However, I've had to work 4th of July pretty much as long as I can remember bc it was the "busy" time for us.
And the "family" excuse for any kind of special treatment at work is just plain irritating. I said that when I was young and single and I am saying it now, when I am old and married.
Lena
ETA Reminds me of "While you were sleeping" movie.
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Cass
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Post by Cass on Mar 18, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
I've always jumped at the chance to work any holiday. At double time and a half, the pay is worthwhile.
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TrixAre4Kids
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Post by TrixAre4Kids on Mar 19, 2011 23:19:18 GMT -5
I've always jumped at the chance to work any holiday. At double time and a half, the pay is worthwhile. I'm with Cassia. I work in a union shop and we are open 24x7 365. Vacation is picked yearly, shifts and weekends are picked quarterly. Holidays are picked about 6 weeks in advance. Everything is picked by seniority. I like to work Christmas, Thanksgiving and New Years, usually Memorial Day. Rarely 4th July or Labor Day (I'm usually in the woods camping ;D ) I pick up alot of extra weekends for people, because I like my days off during the week. Holidays are paid at double time & 1/2, it all goes to my pension calculation and I like to let the younger ones with kids at home be able to be with their families. That being said, it really burns my butt when these same folks complain about the weekends and holidays. You knew about it when you accepted the job. Did anybody twist your arm to take it? Why on earth did you accept the position if you didn't like the hours? Yes, the compensation is nice - it's paying you for all those crappy shifts. They don't even know what crappy shifts are. When I hired on we still had 'splits' - 3-4 hours in the morning and off in the midday, back in the evening for the rest of your tour. Of course, I even liked the splits. I worked all morning, went and rode my horse, then back in the evening to finish my shift. Lifestyle choices.
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Post by dragonfly7 on Mar 20, 2011 1:28:01 GMT -5
As a younger employee, the only time I've had a problem with it is when a manager tried to go back on what days he stated we would be open around Thanksgiving and Christmas after we had made plans, bought plane tickets, etc. The manager that replaced him insisted on being open those days the next year, and then ended up closing early or completely on half of them because there wasn't any business. If I were in a business where I might have to work holidays, my biggest complaint would be if those holidays weren't divided evenly. That is still my mother's biggest complaint regarding her hospital position. First choice of holidays off goes to those with the most seniority, so the same people have off the entirety of Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter EVERY year, while she still has to work all of them.
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TrixAre4Kids
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Post by TrixAre4Kids on Mar 20, 2011 2:02:16 GMT -5
Dragonfly - Yep, that's how it works. I've been there a long time, and earned the right to stay home if I choose. Seniority rocks.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Mar 20, 2011 2:15:20 GMT -5
I have only ever worked one holiday and that was my choice. I worked in a CPA firm before computer so tax returns were processed in a processing center and couriered back. They didn't bring them back on weekends they sent them by bus. Monday was April 15 and Sunday was Easter. The bosses were Jewish and I told one if the returns came on Sunday I would work, I didn't care if it was Easter. Later his partner came and asked me to work Sunday, Partners always worked 7 days a week but staff only 6 days. I told him I would work and didn't mind if it was Easter, he said he didn't know it was Easter. Some work needs don't and if I didn't process all the tax returns on Sunday Monday would have been frantic more than normal.
What I don't like is when we need to work Christmas Eve because men vote to take the 26th instead of the 24th for our two days off. I used to work to 4:30 and have more than a dozen people coming to my house by 6 so barely got home before guest arrived. I work where men outnumber women 15 to 1 and they usually don't care about entertaining on a work night. Now our contract states which days we get off and I quit doing Christmas Eve at my house so I don't care.
We get two days for Christmas and two for New Year's so sometimes would take Monday Tue for Christmas then Thur Friday for New Years then be closed for Wednesday. I hate it because I do accounting so have to work hard ahead to finish my year get payroll done, maybe Christmas bonuses, taxes paid and everything then come back to do W2s and change all the tax rates the first day back.
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Mar 20, 2011 7:30:44 GMT -5
Although we're closed for the major holidays at my office, the days around each holiday are always tight for vacation scheduling. They put up a big calendar at the beginning of each year, and you sign up for the weeks you want off. Only two coders can be gone during any given week. We like to traval, so we have to really plan ahead. I always walk up and put down Christmas week and a week during summer, and then I do the day before any holdiday which I want. A bunch of wails goes up the month before most holidays because people don't plan ahead, but that's life. I stake out any weeks which I want, and don't worry about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 8:22:59 GMT -5
In defense of the younger, grumbling folks, I can see a couple of explanations for this...
They are at a point in their lives where they have less control over the family holiday schedule. At some point there will be a changing of the guard and their generation will take over the family events, but they may still be at the whim of Aunt Cathy or whoever's schedule. (I know you can't complain about someone else doing all the work of planning a party, but) That combined with less seniority may mean they don't get their first choice of holiday off.
So, for a more experienced worker, it may mean choosing whether to celebrate on Christmas Eve vs Christmas Day or the following weekend, but for the young folks it may be choosing between attending your family event and missing it for the year. Give them a couple of years and they'll establish their own Boxing Day extravaganza and they won't gripe quite so much.
Or they will, in which case they are just a bunch of whiners.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Mar 21, 2011 11:59:56 GMT -5
I think the real issue is making it fair. People should take turns, rotate, whatever so that someone isn't always doing Christmas, etc. I think the problems arise when it seems like someone is getting preferred treatment. But, if you are in a profession where that is required, then you simply can choose to celebrate the day on another day. There were times when we couldn't get home our could only be there before or after Christmas so we would just have Christmas day on a different day. Fairness would be good. When I supervised, the system was based on seniority. Ok, we got that. And we could only have 2 people off at the same time. Ok, we got that too. We weren't real happy about it but we understood it. The problem was that our person with most seniority would request the 2 weeks of Christmas and New Year's but would use next year's vacation time to cover it. We run a biweekly payschedule and every 8-9 years it works out to 27 paychecks in the calendar year and you can't borrow next year's vacation. I warned the staff about when we passed out the vacation request calendar and she either forgot or ignored it. She was really pissed when she realized that she couldn't have off Christmas and New Year's.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Mar 21, 2011 12:10:36 GMT -5
Only holiday I ever worked was also Easter at a CPA firm. April 15 was on Wednesday and we were way behind. We all were required to work 5 hours that year. I don't think any of us were happy. We were well in to OT, but still.....
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happyscooter
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Post by happyscooter on Mar 21, 2011 12:31:33 GMT -5
Trix, we must have the same company in mind. I loved the split shifts. I would never have been able to be there 8 hours a day. He!! would have been a vacation compared to that.
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Urban Chicago
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Post by Urban Chicago on Mar 21, 2011 12:32:28 GMT -5
I agree that seniority is not always the best system, but how else do you decide? Number of holidays you've had this year? Family situation? Best performance review that year?
All of those seem equally complicated.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Mar 21, 2011 12:41:49 GMT -5
Currently, I get all the major holidays off. We are open the day after Thanksgiving, but since I try to avoid the mall from late October - President's day, that doesn't bother me. I only request the day off if my family is going to be visiting because it wouldn't be fair to make DH entertain my mom for a whole day while I'm at work.
When I was younger, I worked for a video store that said very clearly on all its signage that we were open 365 days a year. I volunteered to work every holiday the year I worked there. I got paid time and a half for the holiday and double time for working during the company Christmas party. Loved those big pay checks. Yes, I showed up at Thanksgiving after everyone had eaten, but that meant I could have "left overs" instead of putting up with the whole meal. I worked a morning shift on Christmas Eve and an afternoon shift on Christmas, so I could spend the evening/morning with my family, and then Christmas night, I went out with all my friends. The funny part was always explaining to customers that their videos were, in fact, due back on Thanksgiving/Christmas/New Years day. They always seemed to think that they would get an extra day of rental free, depsite the fact that it said absolutely every where that we were open every day of the year.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Mar 21, 2011 12:50:28 GMT -5
I agree that seniority is not always the best system, but how else do you decide? Number of holidays you've had this year? Family situation? Best performance review that year? All of those seem equally complicated. And alternating years = more tracking for the supervisor (me at the time) to deal with. No matter how much I'd have liked to be off Christmas, I wasn't going to add to my workload... The staff was unhappy that I was refused to continue to maintain a list in case someone bailed and a choice spot opened up. At the height, there were a whopping total of 8 people in the dept, counting me. And we were in a big room, EVERYONE knew everyone else's business, including who was going to have to bail on certain vacation dates because they blew though them early in the year, for whatever reason.
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dragon2008
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Post by dragon2008 on Mar 21, 2011 17:45:02 GMT -5
Our vacation schedule depends on what you're working on - if something needs to go out the day after a holiday, then you work the time that is needed to get it out. This was pretty similar to other firms I've worked at before, but at least now the bosses actually try to get their work done before the holiday, since they don't want to work it, either.
I sometimes forget how lucky I have it!
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