Any water heater experts? (Archie? LOL)

[Deleted]

My water heater quit working a couple months ago.  It's gas (no pilot, electric start).  I'd realize there was no hot water, go down and find the blower motor still going on top with no fire down below (the blower only runs when it's lit normally).  I could get it re-started again by just unplugging and turning the switch off down by the little "window" on the bottom, but to get to the switch I'd have to take the cover off near the bottom.  Then I'd slide the little "window" open so I could see if it was lighting.  Sometimes it would stay working for several hours, sometimes 5 minutes.  The guy I called never got back to me, so we babied it along like that for about a month.  In the evenings when we needed to shower/wash dishes, DS and I would just keep checking it and restarting if need be until the tank was hot.  Eventually I got sick of opening it all up and closing it all up every time, so finally I just left the cover off and kept the "window" open.  Well, it's happy now.  It's been working for nearly a month without shutting down once.

So, am I going to kill us all by leaving it open?    The only thing that seems dangerous to me is the kitties could decide to stick their paws in there, but really...why would they?  Even if they did I don't think they could reach all the way to the fire.  Plus it's in the utility room and the door is closed.  I can't see how the cover is that big of a safety factor for the gas either.  I mean, it's not air tight, normally there's a small opening, just now it's more like 3" X 6". 

[yogiii]

YM  for the day ?!?!?

[ArchietheDragon]

Sounds to me like the burner isn't getting enough fresh air with the window on so the burner is going off, but with it open it is getting enough fresh air.   It is possible that it overheated once and it tripped a fuse type thing.

From a website I found:

"On modern gas water heaters, if incoming air supply is constricted then the flow of hot combustion gas up vent is slowed and trapped inside combustion chamber. Result is overheating that will trip the FVIR system. Different water heater companies have different air intake systems and different FVIR prevention. Depending on overheating event and specific model of water heater, the gas control might need to be replaced, other parts might need to be replaced. Or the repair could be simple cleaning air intake screen, and resetting thermal reset on front of combustion chamber, and/or repacement of FV sensor"

[ken a.k.a OMK]

There should be a flame sensor. Looks like a 2" long metal tube placed in the flame with a smaller tube that plugs into the control unit. Easy fix for under $10 just for the sensor (thermocouple) or more for the whole assembly. Google it.

[Deleted]

Apr 18, 2016 9:13:12 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Sounds to me like the burner isn't getting enough fresh air with the window on so the burner is going off, but with it open it is getting enough fresh air.   It is possible that it overheated once and it tripped a fuse type thing.

From a website I found:

"On modern gas water heaters, if incoming air supply is constricted then the flow of hot combustion gas up vent is slowed and trapped inside combustion chamber. Result is overheating that will trip the FVIR system. Different water heater companies have different air intake systems and different FVIR prevention. Depending on overheating event and specific model of water heater, the gas control might need to be replaced, other parts might need to be replaced. Or the repair could be simple cleaning air intake screen, and resetting thermal reset on front of combustion chamber, and/or repacement of FV sensor"

Good reminder!  I should check the outlet.  A few years ago my furnace was shutting down all the time and it was due to birds/mice/something building a nest in the pipe. 

[Deleted]

Apr 18, 2016 9:15:14 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

There should be a flame sensor. Looks like a 2" long metal tube placed in the flame with a smaller tube that plugs into the control unit. Easy fix for under $10 just for the sensor (thermocouple) or more for the whole assembly. Google it.

That was my first thought when reading up on flame going out and I asked my uncle when he looked at it and he said mine didn't have a pilot so no thermocouple, but now I'm looking up online and it says even piezo electric do, plus I know there's a metal tube coming out from the bottom... me thinks my uncle is wrong.

[Deleted]

Apr 18, 2016 9:05:04 GMT -5 yogiii said:

YM  for the day ?!?!?

Because I'm being cheap?   

[yogiii]

Apr 18, 2016 9:22:03 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Apr 18, 2016 9:05:04 GMT -5 yogiii said:

YM  for the day ?!?!?

Because I'm being cheap?   

yes, plus researching a fix before replacing.  Or subbing it out to Archie, either one, it works.

[Tiny]

Um, I'd be a tiny bit concerned about the 'flow' of air issue... it's a gas burner right? That means the C02 is suppose to go up a flue to a chimney....    generally, if everything is working correctly the burner will pull in air (thru the little 'window' you are NOW leaving open) and the hot air/C02 will go up the chimney. If it stopped pulling in air (you need to leave the little window open NOW!) maybe the C02 isn't going up the chimney like it should (maybe it backs up and puts out the pilot/flame when the little window is closed - like it should be).

I think it's a good thing you are looking to get the waterheater working properly...

[Deleted]

Apr 20, 2016 10:48:59 GMT -5 @patstab said:

If you have a propane, co2 sensor in there it will alarm if you are getting fumes.

I keep one in the motorhome and it went off once when the water heater didn't

light.

I just bought one for a rent house at Walmart, made by Kidde for $45. It plugs

into an electric receptacle and has a battery backup.

I do have a carbon monoxide detector, not sure if it has a battery backup.  It's plugged in next to the furnace/water heater.

I still haven't had a chance to check the exhaust pipe.  We haven't gotten home before dark any night this week yet.  Hopefully tonight.

[mroped]

Most of the gas/LP furnaces don't even vent in a chimney. They typicaly have a power vent.
If it is venting in a chimney it is hard to believe that said chimney is blocked or at least strangled. Gas appliances don't put much in the air besides CO2 and maybe a bit of sulfur.

What it might be wrong is the oxygen sensors or feed(intake) or ultimately could be the nozzle tip.
The nozzle tip could be messed up due to condensation in the tank or line.

Id still call a gas man or the company that delivers your fuel!

[Deleted]

Apr 20, 2016 15:55:08 GMT -5 mroped said:

Most of the gas/LP furnaces don't even vent in a chimney. They typicaly have a power vent.
If it is venting in a chimney it is hard to believe that said chimney is blocked or at least strangled. Gas appliances don't put much in the air besides CO2 and maybe a bit of sulfur.

What it might be wrong is the oxygen sensors or feed(intake) or ultimately could be the nozzle tip.
The nozzle tip could be messed up due to condensation in the tank or line.

Id still call a gas man or the company that delivers your fuel!

It is a power vent, but if the pipe going outside is blocked up wouldn't that still cause issues?  I don't know.  Still haven't gotten home early enough to check it.