Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 16:33:49 GMT -5
We are having our two decks power-washed and stained. The guy told me it would be $100 to power wash and $300 to stain. We were to buy the stain ourselves, which we did. He said we pay the first $100 when he power washes. The company he works with (I would have said "for" but read the rest) has a great reputation. He was nice when he gave me the estimate.
So he did the power washing today, and DH gave him a check. The guy said he thought it was $150, and DH told him I said it was $100 when I left him instructions. However, when I got home, I told DH that the guy was doing a good job. If he thought it was $50 more, just pay him that. No biggie. DH said he talked a lot but was really nice.
Then I got a call from the guy. He was pissed because he drove all over town trying to cash our check and other checks. It was on the credit union. If he had asked us where the nearest branch was, we would have told him. He didn't. He was even more pissed because he had to pay $5 to cash the check.
He told me to have $350 in cash on Monday or find someone else to finish the job. He was no longer taking checks from anyone. He doesn't have a bank account, and it is a PITA trying to cash these. He used to be cash only and started taking checks to be "nice," but he's not going to be nice any more. He's right about that. He sure was angry. He told me several times that we would be doing it his way or no way. Lol.
I told him that we would have the $350 on Monday so come finish the job. Notice that he managed to tack on the extra $50 that he thought he was entitled to. I wasn't going to argue about it because he was already angry and threatening not to finish the job. The next person we found would want to power wash again. Plus, he did a good job so I think he will do a good job on the staining. And I didn't CARE about the extra $50. It wasn't a deal-breaker in any sense of the word.
But I actually don't like paying people like this in cash. Real businesses take checks or credit cards. That way, you have some proof of payment. You also have some recourse in small claims court if they totally screw up. Notice I'm not even touching the tax issue.
Do you pay people like this in cash?
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Apr 14, 2016 16:39:43 GMT -5
I have. But I always get a valid address and send them a 1099 .
I'm evil that way
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 14, 2016 16:47:37 GMT -5
I pay cash as much as possible to people. I'm paying a guy a hundred bucks in cash tonight to deliver my washer and dryer and hook them up. But I either do my own power washing or its part of a house painting job.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Apr 14, 2016 16:50:50 GMT -5
I write a check. I had a guy come and move from furniture, and I paid him cash. But, he told me up front he only took cash.
I've had a few people indicate they prefer cash, but I prefer a check so if they want to be paid that is the form of payment. I prefer a check, because it's something I can stop if someone doesn't show up to finish the job.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Apr 14, 2016 16:51:34 GMT -5
Sounds like the issue here is not cash, but the way the guy is trying to play or manipulate you.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Apr 14, 2016 16:55:53 GMT -5
I write a check. I had a guy come and move from furniture, and I paid him cash. But, he told me up front he only took cash. I've had a few people indicate they prefer cash, but I prefer a check so if they want to be paid that is the form of payment. I prefer a check, because it's something I can stop if someone doesn't show up to finish the job. If I'm paying cash, I'm withholding payment until the job is finished to my satisfaction. Just sayin' . . . and I'm getting a verified name and address for a 1099.
But I agree a consumer has more recourse when paying by check or credit card.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 17:05:52 GMT -5
I wouldn't pay cash for anything over, say, $50. I'd figure I was just helping them evade taxes and then end up in the welfare rolls after working off the books and not paying into SS. I paid too much in taxes in my lifetime to help someone else hide their income.
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Peace77
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Post by Peace77 on Apr 14, 2016 17:10:05 GMT -5
I agree with kittensaver. Don't pay the full amount until the job is finished and you have seen the work in the daylight.
My Mom paid a contractor after it had turned dark. She wasn't happy with the results but since they had been paid in full, they wouldn't come back.
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gregintenn
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Post by gregintenn on Apr 14, 2016 17:19:02 GMT -5
I'd have no issue paying him cash once the job was complete and satisfactory. I would, however, balk when he asked for more than the estimate.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Apr 14, 2016 17:23:33 GMT -5
Wow, that's crazy. I've never had any problems paying for services in cash or with check. The times I've paid with cash, I have had us both sign a written receipt stating the service and the amount paid in full. Come to think of it, I've written a receipt before with check payment as well. One time, I paid a random person to deliver and spread mulch. After I wrote the check he said something about a tip in a joking but not really joking sort of way. I just stared, blinked and handed him the tipless check. Oops.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 14, 2016 17:25:44 GMT -5
I will pay in cash if I get a discount. If not they are getting a check.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Apr 14, 2016 17:27:55 GMT -5
I wouldn't pay cash for anything over, say, $50. I'd figure I was just helping them evade taxes and then end up in the welfare rolls after working off the books and not paying into SS. I paid too much in taxes in my lifetime to help someone else hide their income. I agree. Unfortunately sometimes you don't know until you pay. I have people I pay by check and they just take it to my bank and cash it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 17:52:53 GMT -5
I wouldn't pay cash for anything over, say, $50. I'd figure I was just helping them evade taxes and then end up in the welfare rolls after working off the books and not paying into SS. I paid too much in taxes in my lifetime to help someone else hide their income. I agree. Unfortunately sometimes you don't know until you pay. I have people I pay by check and they just take it to my bank and cash it. Yes, and that is what he was trying to do with evidently several checks. So he was driving all over the place. And he had never heard of my credit union (teachers' credit union) so he ended up going to a couple of places that his GPS suggested that turned out to be ATMs. Most banks now charge you to cash a check if you do not have an account with that bank. I know Regions does. I'm not going into the tax issue because I am not other people's conscience. I just don't want DH to be known as having cash around. So I made sure the guy knew that we would go to the CU and get the cash for him. The real irony? I drove to the CU to deposit a check transferring $$$ from my checking account into the "house" account so that we would have more than enough on Monday to write his check. Now I have to drive back to the CU tomorrow to withdraw $$$ so that we can pay this guy in cash. I could have just gotten money from the ATM on my way to work if I had just known. I'll repeat: he did a good job today. I want him to finish the good job. That's my motivation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 17:57:09 GMT -5
I'd have no issue paying him cash once the job was complete and satisfactory. I would, however, balk when he asked for more than the estimate. I don't know that he "asked" for more than the estimate. I think in his head he thinks he said $150 to power wash because they are large decks. Meanwhile, I know in my head that he said $100. But I have a pretty much photographic memory and not all people have. The power washing was worth $150 if he finishes the job. DH would say (but didn't) that this is why you have contracts. He is right. But the "good old boy" deck washing/deck staining workers haven't heard of those. I'm just surprised that he likes him so much. That is strictly his product. So it is worth it. Trust me: DH is sometimes hard to please when he operates inside that network.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 18:14:23 GMT -5
I think that would be a deal breaker for me (huge red flag in my state). Sorry, check or credit card, otherwise I'm back searching for another contractor. Ironically, the smaller the cost, the more likely I won't do cash.
Where I live any contractor that does any type of work, no matter how small can place a Construction Lien on the title to your property. I want the paper trail of the check or credit card to show in court if they try to place a false lien on my house. The bank saves my records on-line for 5-7 years depending on the document and I save them indefinitely as an electronic file. Last thing I want is to have to keep track of some signed receipt for the just in case. Cancelled checks or credit card statements hold up much better in court (can't be forged or claimed you didn't sign).
Business have certain costs of being in business (insurance, taxes, etc). So if he can't deal with a bank account and check then he probably doesn't have any of the other items. My house and umbrella policy all want me to hire licenses (when required) or insured service providers. I don't want a work man's comp claim or other crap law suit with someone that clearly can't do business in a normal fashion.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Apr 14, 2016 18:51:55 GMT -5
I don't want a work man's comp claim or other crap law suit with someone that clearly can't do business in a normal fashion. Except that . . . sometimes it IS a normal fashion to do business in cash.
Not everyone who wants cash is trying to cheat the tax system - sometimes its just easier and faster. When a service provider is known to you (as it appears in the case of the OP, her DH has his "network" and wants to stick inside of it), it is way less of a "risk."
For example: the last time I called my contractor about a small job, he was busy juggling 3 large jobs. So he gave me the phone number of one of "his guys" and said, "Here, call 'Oscar.' He'll take care of it for you, and pay him directly." Easy-peasy for everyone (including me) because 'Oscar' has worked on my house before. I also covered myself by having the worker sign for the cash (plus I issue a 1099s).
But I agree with you in that if I had a large job with my property and/or insurance policy at stake I would not pay a lot of cash "under the table" to someone who was not well-known to me and trusted. I probably wouldn't pay ANY large amount in cash - or without a written agreement.
ETA: even the IRS is okay with skipping the issuance a 1099 if the job was worth $599 or less. I just choose not to skip it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 19:01:49 GMT -5
I think that would be a deal breaker for me (huge red flag in my state). Sorry, check or credit card, otherwise I'm back searching for another contractor. Ironically, the smaller the cost, the more likely I won't do cash. Where I live any contractor that does any type of work, no matter how small can place a Construction Lien on the title to your property. I want the paper trail of the check or credit card to show in court if they try to place a false lien on my house. The bank saves my records on-line for 5-7 years depending on the document and I save them indefinitely as an electronic file. Last thing I want is to have to keep track of some signed receipt for the just in case. Cancelled checks or credit card statements hold up much better in court (can't be forged or claimed you didn't sign). Business have certain costs of being in business (insurance, taxes, etc). So if he can't deal with a bank account and check then he probably doesn't have any of the other items. My house and umbrella policy all want me to hire licenses (when required) or insured service providers. I don't want a work man's comp claim or other crap law suit with someone that clearly can't do business in a normal fashion. We were actually sued by an employee of a subcontractor when the ex and I built a house forty years ago. The contractor had insurance. The subcontractor did not. The employee went after both us and the contractor. The contractor let his insurance company handle it. We had to hire a lawyer. The lawyer said to settle for $750 because defending it would cost at least that. That doesn't sound like much, but that was about 10% of my salary at the time. You usually only lose if you get sued, and anyone who works at your house can include you in the lawsuit . . . just in case the contractor doesn't have enough $$$. Never really think that protects you. I'll have the guy sign something, and I'll stick it in the filing cabinet. I'm not worried about a mechanic's lien.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Apr 14, 2016 19:25:55 GMT -5
I think that would be a deal breaker for me (huge red flag in my state). Sorry, check or credit card, otherwise I'm back searching for another contractor. Ironically, the smaller the cost, the more likely I won't do cash. Where I live any contractor that does any type of work, no matter how small can place a Construction Lien on the title to your property. I want the paper trail of the check or credit card to show in court if they try to place a false lien on my house. The bank saves my records on-line for 5-7 years depending on the document and I save them indefinitely as an electronic file. Last thing I want is to have to keep track of some signed receipt for the just in case. Cancelled checks or credit card statements hold up much better in court (can't be forged or claimed you didn't sign). Business have certain costs of being in business (insurance, taxes, etc). So if he can't deal with a bank account and check then he probably doesn't have any of the other items. My house and umbrella policy all want me to hire licenses (when required) or insured service providers. I don't want a work man's comp claim or other crap law suit with someone that clearly can't do business in a normal fashion. But wouldn't a written receipt solve that problem? In any case, I don't necessarily have an issue with paying cash, but I do have an issue with people jacking up the price for no reason at all. Also, after that angry rant I wouldn't want this guy anywhere near my property. I would have just said "thank you, we'll find someone else". and if he continued ranting, I would have told him that I am going to start charging him for therapy!
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Apr 14, 2016 19:27:47 GMT -5
Don't you have to have a ss# or tax I'd to issue a 1099
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gregintenn
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Post by gregintenn on Apr 14, 2016 20:30:23 GMT -5
I don't want a work man's comp claim or other crap law suit with someone that clearly can't do business in a normal fashion. Except that . . . sometimes it IS a normal fashion to do business in cash.
Not everyone who wants cash is trying to cheat the tax system - sometimes its just easier and faster. When a service provider is known to you (as it appears in the case of the OP, her DH has his "network" and wants to stick inside of it), it is way less of a "risk."
For example: the last time I called my contractor about a small job, he was busy juggling 3 large jobs. So he gave me the phone number of one of "his guys" and said, "Here, call 'Oscar.' He'll take care of it for you, and pay him directly." Easy-peasy for everyone (including me) because 'Oscar' has worked on my house before. I also covered myself by having the worker sign for the cash (plus I issue a 1099s).
But I agree with you in that if I had a large job with my property and/or insurance policy at stake I would not pay a lot of cash "under the table" to someone who was not well-known to me and trusted. I probably wouldn't pay ANY large amount in cash - or without a written agreement.
ETA: even the IRS is okay with skipping the issuance a 1099 if the job was worth $599 or less. I just choose not to skip it.
You should change your screenname to 1099.
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Peace77
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Post by Peace77 on Apr 14, 2016 20:47:28 GMT -5
Don't you have to have a ss# or tax I'd to issue a 1099 No. I've done with just a name and address.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Apr 14, 2016 21:23:50 GMT -5
Retired IRS agent here who knows way too much about the underground cash economy. If they want cash, they get a 1099. I may or may not send it to the IRS, but they don't know that.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Apr 14, 2016 21:38:10 GMT -5
Meh. Small businesses can really get fleeced with bank fees (per check, per deposit, minimum balance requirements, etc.), so I can understand a self-employed contractor wanting cash. Although, the ones who work on a cash basis often struggle to establish credit because they can't prove income, but that's a tradeoff many choose to make. Just get a signed receipt and you should be fine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 22:01:53 GMT -5
I don't get why he has to drive all over town to banks. I can see not having a business account, but doesn't he even have a personal one?
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Apr 14, 2016 22:12:42 GMT -5
My experience with cash only is that they don't have a license or other reasons to not have a paper trail. I had a guy who wanted $1000 for a job and said he'd follow me to my credit union to get it.
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Apr 15, 2016 6:34:55 GMT -5
We pay cash for house/dogs sitting which at this time is done by the neighbors' kid. High School kid, nice, hard working- I had him work on the job a few days last year-we paid him all without trace. Not much, I don't think was even $1000! I always pay cash when I buy my stone foundations from farmers- anywhere from $500 to $2000. I always put it in my business expenses under materials or miscellaneous. For things that need done around the house that I can't or won't have time for it I have a couple guys that we either pay cash or swap/trade favors with. I rarely get paid cash. The missus hates it because it clogs her numbers when that happens. Always am writing contracts for the jobs that I'm doing. There are however, a few select customers that call me and tell me "I'd like something done with this area so I can use it for this or that!" And they disappear. No contract, not much for a suggestion/ direction/ demand for me to go on. I just do my job and when done hand over a bill which gets promptly paid. I love those people!
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MarleyKeezy78
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Post by MarleyKeezy78 on Apr 15, 2016 6:49:03 GMT -5
I would be pissed as hell if he acted like that to me! He is clearly a idiot if he can't be bothered to look up actual locations instead of atms on the internet for the credit union. And raising the price after the fact is a no no for a straight forward job!
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MarleyKeezy78
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Post by MarleyKeezy78 on Apr 15, 2016 6:51:48 GMT -5
Also just to spite him I would end up staining the deck myself and save the $350. That's what you get buttmunch!!!
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Apr 15, 2016 7:17:39 GMT -5
I don't get why he has to drive all over town to banks. I can see not having a business account, but doesn't he even have a personal one? If you deposit into your personal account it can show up if you get audited. Lots of deposits and no claimed income is a big red flag. Even if you cash at your own bank there is a record of it. It is a lot harder to track if you cash at issuers bank. DH paid an electrician with a check and it came out of my account the same day so it was obviously ashes same day. I use the bank with branches on every corner so pretty easy to do between jobs. DH and I have also had small business. It is not that hard to get a business account. Just need business license. I think ours was $10 and no deposit fees or per check fees.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Apr 15, 2016 7:21:26 GMT -5
I don't mind paying people in cash if they want it. I do mind people being assholes, though.
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