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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2011 12:53:53 GMT -5
My wife love saying that she married the cheapest man she knows, and I always say I am not cheap just frugal.
I think cheap is the person that refuse to spend money on anything and don't really enjoy life. Or goes to a restaurant and don't tip the waiters/waitresses.
I take my wife out on a regular basis (yes I do watch how much we spend), travel 1-2 a year, have a few luxuries (2 cars, 2 laptops, ipod, top cookware since we both enjoy cooking, 2 flat screen TVs, Wii game set, blue ray DVD player, etc.) and I don't nickel and dime everything.
It's just I have a limit where I no longer feel comfortable and I don't like to cross. We had lunch together today since we had to meet a Realtor before hand for our possible move and I told both of them that my absolute limit is $1,300 for an apartment (we decided to go with a Realtor since with both our work schedule it has been a real struggle to really look for an apartment).
The Realtor was saying how we could get maybe more if we budge just a bit ($1,350-1500) and my wife told her not to bother because her husband is cheap and if I give her a number I am not going to go over it.
During lunch I mentioned to her how I am concerned that we might end up spending the money we are supposed to be savings since we will be somewhat in the middle of all the restaurants, pubs, etc (We are looking at apartments on Main St in Beacon, NY so close to all the shops, bars, restaurants, art galleries, etc) and she said again: I am not worried about it because I know you are cheap.
For some reason it was getting to me today. I should be used to it by now because she has been calling me cheap for years but for some reason it annoyed me today. Am I cheap?
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achelois
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Post by achelois on Mar 17, 2011 12:58:07 GMT -5
No. You are fairly frugal, but it is a GOOD thing if your wife THINKS you are cheap ;D
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reader79
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Post by reader79 on Mar 17, 2011 12:58:28 GMT -5
No, you're not cheap. If you were cheap you would be selling all of the stuff her mother buys her and using it to payoff her student loans.
But why are you moving out of the complex - won't you have to pay the realtor, and new deposits?
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Post by illinicheme on Mar 17, 2011 12:59:24 GMT -5
There's definitely a difference between cheap and frugal in terms of connotation.
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Post by cytoglycerine on Mar 17, 2011 13:03:46 GMT -5
For me, the words "cheap" and "frugal" basically mean the same thing, however "cheap" has a negative connotation attached to it, and "frugal", a positive one. Kinda like how "confident" and "arrogant" mean pretty much the same thing, but one is positive and one is negative. As for going with a realtor for an apartment, hubby and I did that too as well when we were first looking to move in together. It worked out very well, and didn't cost us a thing! The RE agent got her fee from the landlord. Also, not sure what apartments are like in your area, but in my area, what the RE agent is saying is 150% true. There are seriously gross apartments here that go for about $1200/month, but if you were willing to bump that up to ~$1450, you can get a MUCH nicer place. In the end though, only you can decide if the extra money is worth it. FWIW, I would pay the extra $50-$200 for a nicer place, but I'm a spoiled, bratty snob  |
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Mar 17, 2011 13:05:49 GMT -5
It doesn't really matter what anyone here thinks. It matters more what your wife thinks. She's the one you have to come into agreement with to achieve what you want.
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Post by bobbysgirl on Mar 17, 2011 13:07:49 GMT -5
CAW: I think you are being frugal. Because you provide the things you talk about, I would not call you cheap. Cheap is a form of hoarding to me. Frugal is using the resources you have wisely. After you take a few minutes to be angry, step back and re evaluate your numbers. Maybe 1350 will work if the return was appealing to you. (amenities)
You have allowed DW to use the word cheap in the past so it would not be right to get upset about it now. I correct people and say I'm frugal, there's a difference. Perhaps you can start correcting her gently from this point forward.
And most people who are frugal like to window shop, so I wouldn't be worried about the close proximity to the shops. She understands the parameters that have been set in the marriage.
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Urban Chicago
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Post by Urban Chicago on Mar 17, 2011 13:10:30 GMT -5
I think "cheap" takes over when you start hurting other people with your money-saving efforts. You example about not tipping is good.
So are things like refusing to replace feather pillows when you find out your kid is allergic to feathers, inviting people to go out with you and springing the bill on them, stealing TP and ketchup from restaurants so you don't have to buy it, etc... I've seen all these things recently, and I am disgusted with these people. I'm usually impressed seeing "frugal" people.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Mar 17, 2011 13:16:10 GMT -5
I think your wife was out of line saying something like that to the realtor. It's a rude way to treat the person who have vowed to love honor and cherish.
I think you are frugal and she a spendthrift. And you can tell her I said so! LOL
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2011 13:17:50 GMT -5
But why are you moving out of the complex - won't you have to pay the realtor, and new deposits? The realtor will not cost us anything since the landlord pays her fee; basically we only see buildings that are listed with her. New deposits yes but for when we add it up it will more than make up what we will be paying in rent, even more so that we find out that our rent will be going up if we renew our lease. We are currently paying $1,670 and we are looking to cut back to $1,300 or less (fingers crossed for less) so a minimum of $4,440/year. Honestly I am trying to convince my wife to go for the $1,095 one she showed us last week which would bump it up to $6,900/year. We have to meet with her again on the 26th or 27th to go over a few more listings before we make up our minds. |
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Mar 17, 2011 13:18:31 GMT -5
When DH and I were dating, my friends called him cheap. I corrected them and said "he's careful" because he WAS willing to spend money on what he felt was right/important. Plus, it rarely occurs to him to treat people to dinner or drinks or whatever. And he needed to be careful. He lived alone and had a mortgage payment.
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reader79
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Post by reader79 on Mar 17, 2011 13:20:01 GMT -5
"liberating TP and ketchup from restaurants" fixed.
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olderburgher
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Post by olderburgher on Mar 17, 2011 13:20:15 GMT -5
My roof leaks so I cover it with a tarp when I could and should fix it. I am cheap! My kid needs surgery but is short of coverage and money and I arrange the funding from savings ( no not with the money I saved by tarping the roof) and I am frugal.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Mar 17, 2011 13:28:30 GMT -5
Easy: frugal is what people call themselves, cheap is what everyone else calls them. Now cawiau, you know I like you as a poster, but this all needs to be said: ...:::"and she said again: I am not worried about it because I know you are cheap.":::... Your wife needs a backhanded pimp slap. No really. I don't get the benefit of hearing her tone of voice, but I bet it was not said in a respectful way. The way she throws that word around, plus the way we all know she sees you as a roadblock to her consumption, makes it very clear that she is not going to appreciate the benefits of frugality. When you are in a position that she can stay at home to take care of the kid we all know is coming, she isn't going to say "I'm so glad you helped me control my impulse buying". ...:::"and I told both of them that my absolute limit is $1,300 for an apartment":::... This is always fun. The realtor will either come back with nothing under $1,350 (where the one your wife is going to HAVE to have will be $1,495) or will respect your limit, and your wife will hate everything that <$1,300/month buys. Which pretty much guarantees this: ...:::"I mentioned to her how I am concerned that we might end up spending the money we are supposed to be savings since we will be somewhat in the middle of all the restaurants, pubs, etc":::... I PROMISE you, that you will blow your savings in this manner. For starters, all that opportunity means temptation. So when one of you comes home "too tired to cook" (and I love to cook too, but its a lot of work) or one of you has had a bad day and just wants to relax, or spring is coming up and wine and peoplewatching looks really good.... yeah. Oh plus, you'll have to deal with her complaining because she agreed to give up the nice apartment you have now, so she deserves "something fun once in a while". ...:::"that my absolute limit is $1,300 for an apartment":::... I'm quoting this again to question what $1,300/mo means. Does that mean just the rent, but $50/mo extra per parking space, and utilities? Or is $1,300/month the absolute bottom line and all your housing expenses added together must not exceed that total. I bet the realtor brings you a few $1,275/mo apartments that will require an extra $100+ in "non-rent" expenses. ...:::"I should be used to it by now because she has been calling me cheap for years but for some reason it annoyed me today. Am I cheap?":::... It annoys you because once again you are trying to re-slice the pie to get a little bit ahead, and your only thanks is an ungrateful spoiled fastidious brat who does nothing but complain about what she DOESN'T have. She will NEVER be happy, because there will always be something else she "needs" and by the time it is handed to her (either by you under duress, or by her mother out of manipulation) she will be so far into wanting the next thing that she won't feel any joy or gratitude. Meanwhile, your smaller apartment will be packed to the seams with extravagant garbage that she crusaded for, but has long since forgotten. You will be making trips to goodwill of things that you haven't seen in years, but that you remember she nagged you to bring into the house. You will be able to get 10-25% of what you paid for that item, via a tax deduction (if you can itemize) when you knew darn well the item wasn't important enough to pay full price for in the first place. Between your move itself, your realtor fees, and the increased temptation, you will blow through the $3,600/year savings from moving within 6 months. and for goodness sake put some pants on |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2011 13:28:32 GMT -5
For me, the words "cheap" and "frugal" basically mean the same thing, however "cheap" has a negative connotation attached to it, and "frugal", a positive one. Kinda like how "confident" and "arrogant" mean pretty much the same thing, but one is positive and one is negative. As for going with a realtor for an apartment, hubby and I did that too as well when we were first looking to move in together. It worked out very well, and didn't cost us a thing! The RE agent got her fee from the landlord. Also, not sure what apartments are like in your area, but in my area, what the RE agent is saying is 150% true. There are seriously gross apartments here that go for about $1200/month, but if you were willing to bump that up to ~$1450, you can get a MUCH nicer place. In the end though, only you can decide if the extra money is worth it. FWIW, I would pay the extra $50-$200 for a nicer place, but I'm a spoiled, bratty snob Yes the realtor is not going to cost us a thing and it save us time. As I was typing my last post, I got an email from her about 3 more listings that are available. The place she has been showing us are good and acceptable... I don't want to spend more because the closer it gets to the $1,670 we are paying now it defeats the purpose of moving in the first place. I feel that $1,300 or less is where it somewhat justifies us moving since the amount we will be saving will be enough to make it worth it (instead of being done paying our credit card by June-August of next year we would be done by december of this year or January of next year the latest, and my car loan would follow less than a year later, etc. while still being able to travel, save 25% to retirement, etc.) Basically with a savings of $370 I wanted to send $300 extra toward the credit card debt (currently paying $250 now) and the $70 would be fun money/allowance etc (got to live a little  ). So we would be paying $550/month and be done with it in december and add that extra $550 to my car payment that is now $434 and be done paying that within a year or so; etc. |
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Mar 17, 2011 13:34:41 GMT -5
From dictionary.com
fru·gal /ˈfrugəl/ Show Spelled
–adjective
1. economical in use or expenditure; prudently saving or sparing; not wasteful: a frugal manager.
2. entailing little expense; requiring few resources; meager; scanty: a frugal meal.
cheap /tʃip/ Show Spelled
–adjective
8. stingy; miserly: He's too cheap to buy his own brother a cup of coffee.
I think you get into the realm of cheap when you start hurting other people. For example a cheap person that has only $8 will go to a restaurant with friends and order the $7.95 meal and throw in their $8 to cover it, even though it wont really cover the tax and tip. The frugal person will either order a cheaper meal so they can cover their tax and tip, or they will take a rain check and cook something at home.
I get called cheap sometimes by friends when I say I can't afford to fly out and see them. I don't know if that would fall under cheap or frugal, since I do have the money in the bank but it would go quickly if I started jetsetting everywhere.
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reader79
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Post by reader79 on Mar 17, 2011 13:40:28 GMT -5
I didn't want to say this before, but since we aren't pulling punches... if you move into some just to save what YOU think you should save, your wife is going to hate you. I understand that you want to push up the debt repayment, and beef up your house/baby/whatever fund, but I am telling you that this is not a priority for your wife. Yeah, her viewpoint is way off in that she thinks she should 'live like no one else' before she has paid(off) her dues, but that is how she truly thinks. Every time she walks in the door, she will be remembering her lovely former apartment and how you made her give it up. She doesn't value the same things that you do and that is hard to overcome.
She will never be able to spend enough to be happy, and you will never be able to save enough to be happy. I would not be surprised to find out in a few years that she is getting some strange on the side from someone who treats her 'as she deserves to be treated.' I hope i'm wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2011 13:49:54 GMT -5
When you are in a position that she can stay at home to take care of the kid we all know is coming, she isn't going to say "I'm so glad you helped me control my impulse buying". One thing I am certain off besides death and taxes: My wife will not be staying home to raise our kids; not happening. Not after she went out and got a +100K education This is always fun. The realtor will either come back with nothing under $1,350 Funny you said that, in the listing she just send us one was $1,265 so slightly under my limit and the other was $1,375 so slightly over my limit. Oh plus, you'll have to deal with her complaining because she agreed to give up the nice apartment you have now, so she deserves "something fun once in a while". I am already dealing with that paying $1,670 in rend, so will be no different... but at least I would be paying less in rent I'm quoting this again to question what $1,300/mo means. Does that mean just the rent, but $50/mo extra per parking space, and utilities? Or is $1,300/month the absolute bottom line and all your housing expenses added together must not exceed that total. I bet the realtor brings you a few $1,275/mo apartments that will require an extra $100+ in "non-rent" expenses. that includes rent, at least 1 parking space and pet deposit. If it includes heat water that would be a plus since now we are paying for all the utilities (gas, heat, water and electricity) which runs about $200/month You will be making trips to goodwill of things that you haven't seen in years, but that you remember she nagged you to bring into the house. You mean the crockpot I haven't seen in ages yet she nagged me for months for it. Yeah, I haven't seen it since I packed it last June before we moved. Not even sure if she remembers we have one. and for goodness sake put some pants on I don't like pants  |
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 17, 2011 13:51:04 GMT -5
I am frugal when my husband agrees with me. When he doesn't then I am cheap. |
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Post by cytoglycerine on Mar 17, 2011 14:01:08 GMT -5
The place she has been showing us are good and acceptable... I don't want to spend more because the closer it gets to the $1,670 we are paying now it defeats the purpose of moving in the first place. Ahh yes of course! My apologies, it slipped my mind as to why you were moving in the first place. In that case, I retract my earlier statement, and I think you should mostly stick to your guns on this one. I mean, if you can get something good for a few dollars more than $1300, it wouldn't hurt your overall goal too much, but yeah, paying $100-$200 more than that will put a serious dent into all that "extra" cash you're hoping to free up. |
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Mar 17, 2011 14:04:13 GMT -5
I don't like pants Giggle. My boss is wearing a kilt today. You could research for Irish/Scottish roots! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2011 14:04:54 GMT -5
I didn't want to say this before, but since we aren't pulling punches... if you move into some just to save what YOU think you should save, your wife is going to hate you. I understand that you want to push up the debt repayment, and beef up your house/baby/whatever fund, but I am telling you that this is not a priority for your wife. Yeah, her viewpoint is way off in that she thinks she should 'live like no one else' before she has paid(off) her dues, but that is how she truly thinks. Every time she walks in the door, she will be remembering her lovely former apartment and how you made her give it up. She doesn't value the same things that you do and that is hard to overcome. She will never be able to spend enough to be happy, and you will never be able to save enough to be happy. I would not be surprised to find out in a few years that she is getting some strange on the side from someone who treats her 'as she deserves to be treated.' I hope i'm wrong. I am not moving into some and not going to force her to move into an apartment she hates. We just have to be somewhat happy with it and settle. And if she wants to me for someone else, the door is wide open. I might miss her for awhile but not going to commit suicide over it. And to be honest: As a Haitian and black man with a college degree (hopefully graduate degree soon), good income, retirement accounts and savings... I don't think it would take me long to get over my wife. As a child of divorce; I never really bought into the happily ever after notion and quite realistic to the possibility of divorce. If we are together 50 years from now, great and I am looking forward to it with the ups and downs. If it doesn't work out, bummer and move on. |
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RoadToRiches
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Post by RoadToRiches on Mar 17, 2011 14:09:35 GMT -5
$1600 in rent? Holy crap....that's like a 3000 sq foot house, 4 bedrooms, 2 car garage, huge deck in a nice neighborhood where I live!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2011 14:12:24 GMT -5
LOL I don't even consider you frugal. Just not completely foolish with money.
I don't know that I find your wife's comment insulting. Telling the realtor not to bother trying to talk you around is actually supportive in my eyes. She could have joined the realtor in trying to convince you. Even the comment about not spending all of your savings sounds accepting of your financial restraints. To me anyway.
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rileyoday
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Post by rileyoday on Mar 17, 2011 14:12:57 GMT -5
I remember want you spent last weekend . Thats not cheap or frugal. Tell your wife shes on easy street with you watching the budget.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Mar 17, 2011 14:14:21 GMT -5
To me, cheap is penny wise, pound foolish, whereas frugal is being smart with your money.
For example, I had to get new tires on our car this week. If we'd been thinking about it at all, we would have known this expense was coming, but we weren't thinking about it, so it was a surprise. (We have money in the car fund to cover it, but I would have preferred not to have the expense in the same month we pay the every 6 mo car insurance premium, just from a maintaining balance pov.)
Anyway, the options I was given were for $600 ($150 each) tires with a 30k mile warranty or the $800 ($200 each) tires with a 70k mile warranty. A cheap person would have gone with the cheaper tires. A frugal person goes with the better deal.
When I told DH, he went in to his "I want to be cheap" reactionary mode and demanded why I didn't ask for $50 each tires. I ignore these moments because I know that in reality, he makes the frugal decisions.
We also window shop a lot, find really good deals, and then don't take advantage of them because we know we don't actually need what we were looking at. Its fun because it gives us the option of dreaming, but it also helps us remain focused on what our long term goals really are, and know that we're on the same page.
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reader79
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Post by reader79 on Mar 17, 2011 14:14:36 GMT -5
You are a rare commodity, and I think you deserve better. I think that she has somewhat lost sight of that when she belittles you in front of strangers. You are supposed to be a team, and her undermining your values in public to a stranger is an insult. If she married you as you were, then she should have with the goal of appreciating your differences and being grateful that they will be an asset to your new family unit.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Mar 17, 2011 14:16:17 GMT -5
...:::"I am not moving into some and not going to force her to move into an apartment she hates. We just have to be somewhat happy with it and settle.":::...
I must say I was relieved to here both that the realtor won't cost you money out of pocket, and that $1,095-$1,275 will get you something you can tolerate. As someone who lives in a HCOL area myself, I know that what buys a 3,000SF house in flyover country would not even rent an efficiency.
...:::"Yeah, I haven't seen it since I packed it last June before we moved.":::...
I'm assuming you mean June 2010. I hope you de-cluttered a lot in that move, and will continue to do so. I remember that there were job/school circumstances behind that move, but its still very soon to move again.
...:::"You mean the crockpot I haven't seen in ages yet she nagged me for months for it.":::...
We really are like family here sometimes, in that we remember each others struggles. I very distinctly remember the fight you had with your wife over this item. I remember she was baiting you with promises of delicious dinners. I remember telling you that you should hold her to that promise. I remember that she wanted a top of the line one, and you got very angry over yet another gadget and clutter and exclaimed "besides my laptop and my clothes, what the $&#* here is mine?!?!".
I don't remember whether she paid for the crockpot, or whether Mom did, but it sounds like she welched on those promises of dinners.
...:::"One thing I am certain off besides death and taxes: My wife will not be staying home to raise our kids; not happening. Not after she went out and got a +100K education":::...
I also remember your discussion about how she wanted to be a SAHM, possibly after getting even more education. You about blew your stack. Of course its very difficult to "make" someone go out and get work if they don't want to. SOMEONE is going to have to look after that baby, and if your budget does not have room for day care, then someone has to stay home.
Unless of course MIL moves in.
Your plan for what to do with the money sounds good, and I hope it works out.
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Mar 17, 2011 14:16:50 GMT -5
"And if she wants to me for someone else, the door is wide open. I might miss her for awhile but not going to commit suicide over it"
Got to ask....why did you marry this woman? Better yet, why did you choose to marry at this point in your life(meaning: still in school, just getting started on career, beginning to invest for retirement, save for a home etc.)?
I hope SF is reading this because your union sounds like one that fits some of his controversial descriptions of marriage...and I would have to agree with him.
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reader79
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Post by reader79 on Mar 17, 2011 14:20:24 GMT -5
Maybe his grandmother promised him a pasta maker if he got married? Mine did. But making my own ravioli is still not worth putting up with some dude.  |
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). So we would be paying $550/month and be done with it in december and add that extra $550 to my car payment that is now $434 and be done paying that within a year or so; etc.
