is it cultural???

[lisamomof4]

so it's 2am and i'm sitting up waiting for my DSIL's sister and her companion to arrive some where in the range of 3am...and i'm not happy. actually i'm fast approaching pissed off. DD2 and her husband surprised us late today by showing up un-announced for a 5 day visit. i'm happy to see them and they are always welcome...but honestly i prefer a bit of warning before visits... this week is bad for us and we will now have to scramble around to get this to work...and i'd rather not have to do that...but will because she's our daughter and i have missed her.

they were here about 45min. when DSIL sprung on us that his sister was on her way....then later that was followed up with 'on her way to our house'...i was a bit taken aback and asked 'what'?? DD2 stepped in at that time and said i had told her she was 'welcome at any time'...the fact that this applies to DD and not her inlaws seams to have been lost on DSIL...my last invite to his sister was over christmas when she was going to be alone. as it is DD2 and DSIL are in DD3's room...and because DSIL wants 'privacy because they are adults'...DD3 is sleeping on the floor in our room. i point out i have nowhere for his sister to stay...and am told oh she and friend can sleep in dd3's room with them...they will take bed and his sister can take the air mattress. i've also been told they will only be here for a bit  and will get hotel for tomorrow night. i don't want someone i don't know staying in my house...and i don't like the fact that i'm being treated as wrong/rude for that. DD2 has been upstairs arranging dd3's room to suit them and came down to tell me DSIL was offended by my behavior and was thinking to go to hotel...that she wanted me to tell him they were all welcome.

what am i missing?? is this a cultural thing?? i have never assumed i could just show up somewhere and then also bring extras...not even asking first...and it's a constant thing with his family...every time i think it's been resolved something pops up again...and i'm the mean white lady who doesn't know how to offer hospitality...there is more to this but i'm tired and ticked and not thinking very clearly...oh and DSIL is upstairs sleeping...because 'he's tired'...and yes i could go to bed but when they start pounding on the door or ringing the bell...and then wake DH who has to be up at 4:30....it's going to be a mess and i'm stuck with it.  

[cronewitch]

Sorry this happened to you and hope it doesn't happen again. My parents showed up at my brother's home when he was a young sailor with his bride no notice at all. Dad stopped and picked up a couple of bags of groceries on the way. My brother was very upset he was 18 or 19 and on sailor pay supporting a wife and couldn't afford to feed them but was insulted dad brought food. If he had given him a month of warning he would have starved to feed company not be a charity case.
Sometimes warning doesn't even work. He was in the Navy in Virginia Beach and I was in Michigan when I called and told him I was on vacation. He asked are you here and I said I would be but wasn't invited so I was invited. We drove there and he had a 3 bedroom house with him, wife, two kids, wive's sister and we went to the airport to get wive's brother so 6 adults and 2 kids. He could have said they had company and we wouldn't have visited them. My ex had been laid off for months so we weren't going to vacation at all, his grandma told him I deserved a vacation since I worked a whole year.
I think sometimes it is almost ok but the extras make it not so much ok. The rude behavior after like going out to return at 3AM is just rude and SIL not waiting up for them so you have to. If you act grumpy maybe they will go to a hotel tomorrow.

[zibazinski]

No, it's just rudeness disguised as cultural.

[wvugurl26]

I'd be losing my shit in a hurry. If you want privacy you can go pay for a hotel!!

[andi9899]

It's not cultural. I'm hispanic too and no one in my family would ever act this way. This family is just rude and entitled. I think I would sit everyone down and tell them that I don't appreciate things being sprung on me and strangers being invited to stay at my house. If they're offended, they can leave. If the behavior continues, they will be turned away at the door. The open door policy only applies to your daughter and her husband, not extended family. Follow through. The reason this is always happening is because you are allowing it. Take charge of your home. They'll get over it. The part I would be most worried about is the fact that they're rubbing off on my daughter.

[resolution]

This is the rest of your life because you are not enforcing your boundaries. You have explained the boundaries repeatedly but they know that all they have to do is show up and you will displace your own family and your own needs to accommodate them.

It is ridiculous for you to be waiting up at 3 am for unwanted and uninvited visitors. Go to bed and let them pound the door until they give up and go away. Kick out DD2 and let her know that she needs to stay in a hotel if she doesn't give a week's notice or if she invites additional visitors.

[Deleted]

Didn't you post something about this happening in the past too?  I'm getting strong deja vu...if so, then you kind of had this coming because you keep letting them do it.

It's plain rude and if anyone got offended at how I reacted to someone showing up at that hour and then inviting guests, I'd toss their stuff out on the lawn.  In this day and age where everyone has a cell phone there's no excuse to not call ahead.  Plus, I don't run a flop house for extended family.  That would just be a no.  

[resolution]

Apr 1, 2016 7:41:34 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Didn't you post something about this happening in the past too?  I'm getting strong deja vu...if so, then you kind of had this coming because you keep letting them do it.

It's plain rude and if anyone got offended at how I reacted to someone showing up at that hour and then inviting guests, I'd toss their stuff out on the lawn.  In this day and age where everyone has a cell phone there's no excuse to not call ahead.  Plus, I don't run a flop house for extended family.  That would just be a no.  

She posts about this regularly because they keep coming back, treating her like dirt, and then talking down to her because she doesn't thank them for it.

They know they can do whatever they want if they just ignore what she has to say and do what they want. It will never stop until she refuses to let them in, rather than accommodating them while she verbally tells them it isn't ok.

[milee]

Part of the problem is that you are sending mixed messages.  It's OK for your daughter but not other relatives.  You don't like it but you allow it.  You don't want them coming but you're sitting up late to let them in.

They're being rude, but you're also sending messages that you're OK with it.  You don't have to be rude to send a firm, consistent message that you need a certain amount of notice before people visit. 

It also won't hurt to send some subtle but still polite and reasonable messages about what hospitality you offer.  For example, you were annoyed at your son in law's request to have his own space so you moved your daughter out of her room and onto your floor.  Don't do that.  Be nice and politely decline when someone requests something you don't agree with.  Tell them you're happy that they're here but this is what you can offer.

Start being consistent and this will resolve over time.

[whoisjohngalt]

Milee said it much more eloquently what I was thinking.

This is not the first time people just showed up at your door.  There HAS TO be something you are putting out there

[geenamercile]

It is not a cultural thing, although I do agree with the mix messages thing.  I will say that my husband and I are the type of people where we are okay if you just show up on our door step.  When we tell people they can come anytime without notice we do mean it.  But that isn't something that I expect others to do for us.  I think it is a more of a personal thing then a cultural thing.  But them not respecting that this is your comfortable level is rude.   

[lurkyloo]

Sorry to hear that your DD and DSIL are getting in on the rudeness act.  I think you should have told them to go ahead to a hotel and flat-out refused to accommodate the sister and friend. Did you cave again and reassure DSIL they were welcome?

other than that, what milee said.  Your daughter's inlaws suck.  Sounds like she's getting pressure from her husband to think their way.  It's up to you to set and enforce boundaries.  Be pleasant about it, but stop being a doormat.

I'd suggest that anyone who wants to stay with you is required to give three days' notice and to be prepared to accept no as an answer.  But then again I would never again host anyone who treated me the way they've treated you.

[whoisjohngalt]

Apr 1, 2016 9:08:45 GMT -5 geenamercile said:

It is not a cultural thing, although I do agree with the mix messages thing.  I will say that my husband and I are the type of people where we are okay if you just show up on our door step.  When we tell people they can come anytime without notice we do mean it.  But that isn't something that I expect others to do for us.  I think it is a more of a personal thing then a cultural thing.  But them not respecting that this is your comfortable level is rude.   

Almost agree bc I think there are some cultures where it's more accepted?  I don't know.

I have a friend like that and I have an aunt and uncle like that.  They really are OK with their house having a revolving door, any time.  My friend even opened her house to people she never met.  Not completely off the street, but still the one she didn't know.

[milee]

Apr 1, 2016 9:13:55 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

Apr 1, 2016 9:08:45 GMT -5 geenamercile said:

I have a friend like that and I have an aunt and uncle like that.  They really are OK with their house having a revolving door, any time.  My friend even opened her house to people she never met.  Not completely off the street, but still the one she didn't know.

I'm finding out that racing sailors are often like that. Very weird to me, but there's some sort of tradition or culture that everybody who possibly can provides housing for visiting sailors when there's a regatta happening. And that includes people they don't know.   It's been a little weird for me - I didn't grow up sailing - to have perfect strangers offer to house us, but that's just how it's done.  It's very nice once you get into it.  I have a friend who's raced all her life (won world level competitions) and when she and her husband built their house they specifically designed the bottom floor to be able to accommodate visiting sailors.  It has multiple bedrooms and bathrooms, a huge common area where they can put overflow guests on air mattresses and even places to hang and store gear.  A few months ago when I was organizing a regatta, we needed housing for 11 sailors from out of town and she took them all even though she'd never met any of them. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

You're a human doormat to these people.  You keep thinking they should just know how to behave properly and respect you but clearly they don't give a crap.   You're waiting around for an epiphany that is never going to happen.

The only way to deal with these people is to be more aggressive/assertive/stubborn than they are. You tell them "no you cannot stay with us. . Here is a list of inexpensive hotels in the area you can stay at".  

Then you lock your door and when they show up at 3 am don't answer the door.   They can sleep on the lawn if they want to be stubborn.

When the bitch at you repeat the line "I'm sorry to hear that, maybe you should book a hotel in advance next time".   Rinse and repeat until they realize they aren't going to be able to bully you anymore.

This will have to apply to your daughter as well.  If she can't stand up to her in-laws and respect your boundaries then she isn't welcome to stay either.   

[souldoubt]

Are you the poster and them the in laws who wanted you to make a large donation to their kids (sibling of your daughters spouse) wedding when you weren't even invited?  I think that was also the poster whose in laws tried having the kid you didn't know and his 3 friends stay at your place but I could be confusing posters.  

Regardless I think the other posters nailed it.  I realize you can't flat out tell them to piss off but you can sure as hell take a stand instead of letting them walk all over you.  Too many people in this world will take advantage of kindness and that's exactly what they're doing because you don't put your foot down.  Your daughter married into the family so you're tied to them to some degree but that doesn't mean you should let them or even your daughter act like you're being rude and putting them out.  I'd be making sure it never happened again while making it clear to daughter that it's her problem to deal with now and that I won't be disrespected in my house.  She's an adult, she married into it and she can deal with the **** but it's not your problem.

[whoisjohngalt]

Apr 1, 2016 9:21:55 GMT -5 milee said:

Apr 1, 2016 9:13:55 GMT -5 whoisjohngalt said:

I have a friend like that and I have an aunt and uncle like that.  They really are OK with their house having a revolving door, any time.  My friend even opened her house to people she never met.  Not completely off the street, but still the one she didn't know.

I'm finding out that racing sailors are often like that. Very weird to me, but there's some sort of tradition or culture that everybody who possibly can provides housing for visiting sailors when there's a regatta happening. And that includes people they don't know.   It's been a little weird for me - I didn't grow up sailing - to have perfect strangers offer to house us, but that's just how it's done.  It's very nice once you get into it.  I have a friend who's raced all her life (won world level competitions) and when she and her husband built their house they specifically designed the bottom floor to be able to accommodate visiting sailors.  It has multiple bedrooms and bathrooms, a huge common area where they can put overflow guests on air mattresses and even places to hang and store gear.  A few months ago when I was organizing a regatta, we needed housing for 11 sailors from out of town and she took them all even though she'd never met any of them. 

This is so interesting, but I totally get it.  So in some ways it's a "cultural" thing.  The sub-culture of sailors.

[Opti]

They aren't going to control their behavior for you, so you need to change yours. Before they leave, let them know they are only welcome if they give you 24 hours, 48 hours or whatever notice you want. Do not let them in the door to stay if they give you less than that. Emphasize this only applies to them no one else in his family or related friends.

The key is enforcement. I think you made a mistake by not remaining angry and letting them leave to go to a hotel. I don't know if your daughter is a people pleaser doormat too, but if you want to be treated better, you need to start refusing their demands.

Remember, they have no reason to change. Taking advantage of you works.

[Tiny]

It's not cultural... it's probably a 'family' thing...  I have a SIL with a huge very close family  and it was common for them to couch surf on the spur of the moment -- or atleast it seemed that way to me...   They always had a housefull or were going to some other relative's house on the spur of the moment...

My family had an "open door' policy but you had to ASK before hand.   As long as you could survive the potential 'shit storm' of the asking process (and you always did) - you always got a place to stay and everything was copacetic.   if you just arrived with no notice... you wouldn't survive the 'shit storm' --guaranteed and you wouldn't have a place to stay - unless you wanted to pitch a tent (that you brought!) out in the yard. 

There was a bit of 'family culture' shock with the way to handle "favors" and "being put out, but being nice about it"  with my family and my SIL and her family.  But, my SIL is clever and a quick study and figured out "our rules" and then made the effort to 'play by them' even though she thought they were silly/inconvenient.    I know my mom didn't really like my SIL at the beginning but was always 'civil' and as time went on I'm not sure they were ever BFFs but they definitely had a cordial friendly relationship.  They both made compromises and they both knew it.    My brother just practiced avoidance... because of the 'shit storm' issue... we've all got a lot of 'baggage' and could probably use therapy.  

That said,  I do agree the OP is sending mixed messages.    In addition to the other suggestions for how to handle this... she needs to get her daughter on board with letting her know ahead of time - I have a hard time believing people constantly  do stuff like "needing a place to stay over night" on the spur of the moment.  I suspect her daughter knew this trip was coming (maybe NOT the specifics but close enough) and might have been AFRAID to call her mom and say what was happening.  It's a two way road.   Both mother and daughter need to  find some "safe zone" for talking about/dealing with this issue. 

I'm assuming that her daughter isn't being rude because she's clueless she's being rude... I think she might be avoiding letting her mom know because of the "shit storm" she thinks she will get... it's better to just show up and deal with the 'shit storm' and get it over with.        

They need some rules/expectations/scripts for how to handle this that becomes a "win-win" situation-- even if there's a 'shit storm' involved.    It's a two way road and at this point they need to find some common ground and some expectations for how future "Hi! we're coming over!" events will work/play out.  

Otherwise, things will just stay the same...  

   

[sarcasticgirl]

I've "shown up unannounced" once... it was surprise visit to my mom for her birthday. I had just moved to chicago and my mom had been sick. Everyone in my family knew, except my mom... so it isn't quite the same. 

I am confused... this is your daughter. Can you not just flat out tell her that this is inappropriate or it makes you uncomfortable or puts an extra burden on you? 

How are they going to know they shouldn't behave this way unless you say something? if you act like everything is great, then you are essentially saying everything is fine.

People aren't mind readers. if you want something to change, tell your daughter that while you love to have her visit, you need to be notified in advance. EASY PEASY. 

[Wisconsin Beth]

Apr 1, 2016 10:38:31 GMT -5 sarcasticgirl said:

I've "shown up unannounced" once... it was surprise visit to my mom for her birthday. I had just moved to chicago and my mom had been sick. Everyone in my family knew, except my mom... so it isn't quite the same. 

I am confused... this is your daughter. Can you not just flat out tell her that this is inappropriate or it makes you uncomfortable or puts an extra burden on you? 

How are they going to know they shouldn't behave this way unless you say something? if you act like everything is great, then you are essentially saying everything is fine.

People aren't mind readers. if you want something to change, tell your daughter that while you love to have her visit, you need to be notified in advance. EASY PEASY. 

you also need to clarify with your daughter that you are willing to have her on short notice, if you are, but that is her and her spouse, not spouse's entire family.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Sorry, this is on you.

It sounds like your daughter is granting these carte blanche invitations.  Why did you not say something to her?  She has a lot of expectations about YOUR hospitality.


This is on your daughter, not her husband's family.  SHE was the one whi issued the invite and they are going to be the recipient of your frustration.  That isn't fair to them, you should be mad at your daughter.

[happyhoix]

I don't think you should be even halfway on this. By that I mean don't allow even DD and DSIL to visit overnight anymore. Tell them firmly that this visit was very disruptive and you've gotten to the point that you can't tolerate this kind of chaos in the household so you're going to have to draw the line. No more overnight visits. Tell them you will give them a list of cheap local hotels for the next time they visit - if you're financially able, maybe you offer to pay half. But I don't think you should continue to let even DD and her husband stay, because they take too many liberties. If I visit someone else and there's no bed, I'm the one sleeping on the living room floor in an air mattress, not the people who live there. The fact that they were fine with moving your DD out of her room and into yours so they could have their 'private' space is ridiculous.

Yes they will call you the mean white lady. But you and all the rest of your family members will get a good night's sleep in your own beds. Sounds fair to me.   

[justme]

I'm surprised your other daughter didn't say f u and enjoy the couch. I only gave up my bed for aunts/uncles and grandparents. Cousins and siblings are on their own.

And I probably would of thrown in a nu uh there's no way you're screwing on my bed and that's the only reason you'd need privacy for!!!

[shanendoah]

I would say you need to have a talk with DD2. This is between you and her. And then it is her job to explain to her in-laws. And she can explain it however she wants.

But your rules are:
1) People related to you by blood and their spouses/partners are allowed to visit "anytime", but anyone else needs to ask in advance. (Note that grandchildren are related by blood, so once they are in the picture, they can show up anytime.)
2) People who don't live in your house are not allowed to invite other people to stay in your house. That means DD2 does not get to invite people to your house.
3) People who live in your house will not be put out of their rooms for last minute visits. If things are planned in advance, and DD3 has time to prepare her room/protect HER privacy, she might be asked to give up her room for a night or two. But she will never be put out of her room/her place to sleep just because someone else shows up wanting a place to sleep. Given that it is her room, a place where she has a reasonable right to expect privacy, her privacy rights will ALWAYS trump privacy requests by people who are not in their own home and therefore have no reasonable right to expect privacy.
4) Anyone wanting to stay at your house must arrive by 8pm. You will not answer the door after 8pm for any unplanned/unscheduled visitors. If someone is planning a trip and knows they won't be in until later, they can get a hotel that first night, or you reserve the right to let them arrive later on a case by case basis.

Have this discussion with DD2 WITHOUT DSIL there to try and pressure either of you. She knows your family, your norms, your rules. Remind her of them. And then remind her she is the one that married into this other family, not you. Your norms and rules do not change. It is her job to negotiate between the two.

[Lizard Queen]

Apr 1, 2016 12:35:19 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

I would say you need to have a talk with DD2. This is between you and her. And then it is her job to explain to her in-laws. And she can explain it however she wants.

But your rules are:
1) People related to you by blood and their spouses/partners are allowed to visit "anytime", but anyone else needs to ask in advance. (Note that grandchildren are related by blood, so once they are in the picture, they can show up anytime.)
2) People who don't live in your house are not allowed to invite other people to stay in your house. That means DD2 does not get to invite people to your house.
3) People who live in your house will not be put out of their rooms for last minute visits. If things are planned in advance, and DD3 has time to prepare her room/protect HER privacy, she might be asked to give up her room for a night or two. But she will never be put out of her room/her place to sleep just because someone else shows up wanting a place to sleep. Given that it is her room, a place where she has a reasonable right to expect privacy, her privacy rights will ALWAYS trump privacy requests by people who are not in their own home and therefore have no reasonable right to expect privacy.
4) Anyone wanting to stay at your house must arrive by 8pm. You will not answer the door after 8pm for any unplanned/unscheduled visitors. If someone is planning a trip and knows they won't be in until later, they can get a hotel that first night, or you reserve the right to let them arrive later on a case by case basis.

Have this discussion with DD2 WITHOUT DSIL there to try and pressure either of you. She knows your family, your norms, your rules. Remind her of them. And then remind her she is the one that married into this other family, not you. Your norms and rules do not change. It is her job to negotiate between the two.

This is awesome.  Lisa, print this out and laminate it. 

[milee]

Part of what you may be struggling with are the harsh words; you probably don't want to use harsh, loaded language especially with your daughter that you have been missing. Ignore any harsh phrasing in some of the posts for a minute, because you don't have to use the harsh language.

I have this friend who is a master at things like this.  She could deliver very tough messages without the recipient being offended.  The recipient may not have agreed with the message but there weren't personal hard feelings when she was done.  Very wonderful skill.  From watching her for a while it appears that her secrets are:

1)  Your demeanor, tone and overall language are important.  You may be mad and think this person is being very rude, but your outward appearance shouldn't show that.  If you can keep your attitude friendly, the other person doesn't feel personally attacked or judged so you avoid that whole issue.

2)  Start with how much you care about that person and want good things for them.  Then state what you can do to help them (and that may only be providing a list of hotels).  Then close with again letting them know how much you care about them.  The good news/bad news/good news sandwich.

3)  Don't use excuses or soften your boundaries but also don't elaborate or debate.  Be friendly, calm and brief in both the initial talk and in replies.

Here's an example of how this might play out in your situation.  Assume DD2 and her husband show up unannounced and expect to spend the night.

You:  (Give them big hugs.)  I'm so glad to see you!  What a surprise!  I wish I knew you were coming so I could make you more comfy.  You're welcome to stay; I have an air mattress you can blow up for the living room.  Can I make you a drink?

DD2:  We don't want to stay on an air mattress in the living room.  We're adults!  Little sis can sleep on the air mattress and we'll take her room.

You:  If you'll give me a few days' notice next time, I can probably figure out how to move sis so you can have a room.  But for now, the air mattress in the living room is what we can offer. 

DD2:  That's ridiculous!  She's only 9, why does she get a room and we don't?  You don't love us as much and you're going to make my husband uncomfortable.

You:  I love you more than anything!  I love you so much I'm going to let you sleep here even though you showed up with no notice and it's not a convenient time for me. So next time, if you give me a few days' notice, it will work best for all of us and I can have time to rearrange things and make you comfy.  For tonight, though, let's go ahead and get that air mattress set up in the living room. 

Rinse and repeat.  Always kindly and lovingly even if DD and husband are acting like jerks.

[imawino]

I want to hear how it went last night!  And did they really get a hotel room for tonight?

[lexxy703]

This is really strange. Do you live on a beach or a resort vacation location? Who just shows up in the middle of the night unannounced on a weeknight & says oh by the way I've invited others that won't be arriving until 3am?  You need tell your daughter this is not acceptable behavior. It is downright rude & inconsiderate. Where does your husband stand on this? Or DD3 who had to give up her room? DD2 disrespected your whole family & for whatever reason cares more about what her SIL & BIL feel than her own family.  Tell her if she pulls this crap again there will be no accommodations.

[lisamomof4]

resolution is correct...this isn't the first time they've done this....though they seem to think this is different because what i objected to before was his mother/nephews/cousins....this is his sister and that makes it an entire new ball of wax in DSIL's eyes....he 'understands' i don't want 'large groups'...and per both DD and DSIL i did give his sister an invite...which i did...for christmas...not an open door...they are forgetting that little detail... the baby (DD3) said to his face last night 'but they aren't family'..which he gave her a look and was like yes they are...it was amusing

i did go to bed after giving it some more thought ....am told DSIL heard them and let them in. they are currently out and about for now... told they are bringing lunch back...i pointed out to DD2 that it wasn't so much his sister(of his family she is the best of the lot) it was the young man with her who i don't know from adam....i'm being told they came here to escape his mother for a few days.

i don't want to slam anybody's culture....just that was what DSIL always says to me when i ask...'it's just how it is in my culture'...that they are just much more welcoming and open...that i haven't seen with his family but maybe the opening is just with other peoples possessions...