independent adults

[Deleted]

Since I have no children, I don't know how this issue can be remedied. Even if I did have children, I am not sure how I would do it.

Please try and make sure your children grow up to be independent adults. In the past few weeks I have encountered the following situations:

Forty year old friend confessed she is very unhappy in her marriage. Her husband verbally abuses her and he has terrible mood swings. Sometimes he comes home from work really drunk and passes out immediately. She cannot leave him because she in not capable of living on her own.

Cousin's husband decided he did not want to be married anymore. She had to move in with her parents. In the past year she has lived with three different boyfriends because she cannot make it on her own.

I think this is terrible. Both of them went straight from Mom and Dad's house to spouse's house.

If you have daughters (or sons), please make sure they are financially prepared to live independently when they become adults.

[Miss Tequila]

To be fair, I went straight from living with my mom to living with my husband. I never lived on my own before I got divorced. I don't think that's the issue. The issue is that women you described in your OP are 100% financially dependent on their husbands.

 If you can't afford to live on your own you probably made some bad choices in life.  but I'm also a firm believer in it is never to late to gain your financial independence.  A woman that has no education or job skills can go back to school to better themselves and become financially independent.

And this is one thing that I stress to my daughter ALL.THE.TIME.  I tell her to NEVER allow herself to be supported by a man.  I said that before I got divorced.  Not long after my divorce I had a talk with her and explained that had I been dependent on her father to support us we would have been screwed.  She gets it because it hits home with her.  I hope she follows my advice when she is older

[Deleted]

Unfortunately, I don't think either one has any interest in supporting themselves, it would be too much work. My friend even told me that she stays for convenience.

I guess everyone is different. I would never want to live that way.

[Deleted]

I totally agree- it's pitiful to see someone try to find someone to support him/her because he/she can't make it alone.

I kept working FT after I had DS. He ended up very traditional and married a wonderful young woman who wanted to be a SAHM and home-school any future children. Fine with me; our granddaughter is almost 2 and they're wonderful parents. What was important to me was that DDIL had gotten a 2-year degree in business from a community college and had a decent job managing inventory for a Nissan dealer. She'd moved away from the little town where she was raised (3 hours from where she and DS live now) and was living with a few female friends before the marriage. I know she's lived on her own and if she had to, she could do it again. It's very unlikely, but I'm glad to know she can. And believe me, that's the same message I'm going to give to my granddaughter. I'm already putting aside money for her education and although I have no preconceived notion of what she should do with her life, I want her to be able to live on her own if she chooses or if it's necessary.

One funny story: after I got out of college I was THRILLED to get my own place in Cincinnati, where I'd gone to school. My parents were good parents (heck, they paid for college) but they, umm, didn't allow me to have sleepovers with male friends. Their house, their rules. I worked with a guy who still lived with his parents. He was a ladies' man (funny how the terms for men who sleep around are so complimentary) and his mother would cheerfully fix breakfast for him and whatever young lady wandered out of his bedroom on Sunday morning. Heck, no wonder he lived with his parents!

[mollyanna58]

Mar 31, 2016 10:42:17 GMT -5 @bluester said:

Unfortunately, I don't think either one has any interest in supporting themselves, it would be too much work. My friend even told me that she stays for convenience.

 

She may be hoping he kills himself in the drunk driving accident and that she will collect some insurance. 

[giramomma]

Mar 31, 2016 10:01:04 GMT -5 @bluester said:

Cousin's husband decided he did not want to be married anymore. She had to move in with her parents. In the past year she has lived with three different boyfriends because she cannot make it on her own.

It sounds like your cousin doesn't want to adult or deal with consequences. That's not a financial issue.

[Ryan]

I have 2 siblings that have a lot of anxiety in general.  1 of them has a good career and home, but spends all her free time over at my parents.  My other sister went to college, but kind of doesn't really have a career and lives with my parents.  In both cases, the unfortunate thing is that both of them could be leading productive lives.  If you met them on the street you would think they were perfectly normal.

Unfortunately, my parents are kind of enablers.  It's interesting cause my dad was always the clear leader of the family growing up and was more direct.  As he's gotten older, he keeps his opinions to himself if he thinks it's going to cause waves (I thought people do the opposite when they get old?!?!?).  My mom's idea of giving advice is to tell you what you want to hear.  

Not surprisingly, my 2 sisters are like this as well.  So when parents want to make some kind of really dumb purchase that is not practical for their age, they agree with them. It's not until me and my brother show up that we just kind of look around and say "What the h*ll is going on here"

[yogiii]

Yes, I think a lot of it is personality. I know plenty of people who are happy to be co-dependent.

[billisonboard]

I find it interesting that we are talking about human beings who are not self supporting yet it appears that they are not products of the welfare state. Might it be possible that there are simply people who are psychologically not able to be independent and that it isn't the government's fault?

[Regis]

Most parents work to raise good kids.

I think parents should work to raise good ADULTS.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

You can't control everything about your children's lives once they become adults.   If someone chooses to remain in a bad marriage that is their choice.   You can talk till you are blue in the face but if they don't want to hear it you're not going to change their minds.

They could refuse to let their children ever move back home but that's not going to automatically result in the desired outcome.

People end up and stay in bad relationships for numerous reasons.   Rihanna has more money than most of us will ever dream of seeing and a team of handlers that could have helped her but she still went back to Chris Brown after he beat her up so bad she was hospitalized.

It's not so simple as "well if they just lived on their own before they got married none of this would have happened"

[wyouser]

Mar 31, 2016 12:09:09 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I find it interesting that we are talking about human beings who are not self supporting yet it appears that they are not products of the welfare state. Might it be possible that there are simply people who are psychologically not able to be independent and that it isn't the government's fault?

Oh my gosh, are we about to rain on my parade? Here I am, An independent guy, who has been on his own in the world since 1974. A guy who is looking forward to leaving the work force at age 70. A guy who's only goal in life from 70 on is to be a burden on my government. Come on folks! That will be second childhood time!!  Start sending me a check. I'll be located in a corner of the basement of the government if you need me.

[Deleted]

Mar 31, 2016 10:42:16 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

To be fair, I went straight from living with my mom to living with my husband. I never lived on my own before I got divorced. I don't think that's the issue. The issue is that women you described in your OP are 100% financially dependent on their husbands.

So, did I.  It was my house that I bought, but I went from Mom and Dad's to living with him and it wasn't until I was 34 that I was living on my own (well, with my son).   I was just cheap.  LOL  I didn't want to pay rent and I didn't want to buy a house until I had roomates to pay my mortgage. 

[tallguy]

Mar 31, 2016 12:11:15 GMT -5 Regis said:

Most parents work to raise good kids.

I think parents should work to raise good ADULTS.

Exactly right.  The "job" of a parent is to make themselves unnecessary.  If your child is in their thirties and still NEEDS you, a very good case could be made that you failed as a parent.  It's great to have a good relationship with your kids, but if they are not capable of taking care of themselves....    

[whoisjohngalt]

It's also not always financial.  I know a person who always had roommates before she got married, she didn't like living by herself even though she very well afford it

[souldoubt]

My friend married into a family where none of the kids (mid 20's to early 30's) really work because despite dad's complaining he hands out money left and right.  Barring something major happening they'll all inherit a sizable amount of money but it will be gone in so many years because none of them know how to handle money or the value of working to support yourself.  My friend jokes that he's the only one that works in the family but the sad thing is it's true and his better half's mindset about money is just so completely different than that of someone who works to support themselves it's sad.  Another friend of mine who is the same age as me has some mental issues and rather than get him to deal with them his mom's solution is to support him financially.  The thing is she's not rich or wealthy by any stretch of the imagination, may never be able to retire and it causes tension between her and her boyfriend.  Her boyfriend is fine with her using her money for it he just doesn't agree with supporting an able bodied adult and I agree with him on that.  In both cases these parents aren't doing their kids in any favors because they'll be gone some day and the kids will be out on their asses.  I think as a parent your job is to raise kids who can stand on their own two feet because you aren't doing any favors making excuses for them or supporting them when they're able to do that themselves.  

[Deleted]

Mar 31, 2016 10:42:17 GMT -5 @bluester said:

Unfortunately, I don't think either one has any interest in supporting themselves, it would be too much work. My friend even told me that she stays for convenience.

I guess everyone is different. I would never want to live that way.

People like that puzzle me. I know quite a few people that have cheated on their spouses for years and/or been cheated on for years. It's not open marriages, it's cheating because they're sneaking around. Maybe there are unspoken agreements that the spouse will look the other way as long as they're not forced to deal with it, I don't know. Anyway, for years, I've wondered what is the point in being married to someone that continually deceives you. As one woman (who cheats) explained it to me, everybody stays because they don't want to give up the lifestyle they have being married. She's never lived on her own and for years, stayed because she was kind of afraid to be on her own even though she made decent money. Now, after a couple of decades, they've built a lifestyle together that she doesn't want to walk away from. I still just don't understand it.

Back when she was afraid to be on her own, I didn't have a lot of sympathy for that excuse. I got divorced in my early 20's after having been a SAHM during the marriage. Maybe I was too young or too dumb (or both!) to be afraid of making my own way with 2 kids in tow, but it didn't occur to me to stay married just to have someone take care of me. I use to tell her that if she didn't want to be married, if I managed to make it on my own, she could too. She already had a decent job, I didn't have a job at all and had never had a full time job when my ex and I seperated.

To me, having to put up with a bunch of shit from somebody else or being stuck somewhere I don't really want to be is more inconvenient than doing what I need to do to be able to take care of myself.  

[Phoenix84]

Yes, a lot of people seem to not know how to function on their own. They never live on their own, they just go from parents to spouse without ever really living alone.

[cronewitch]

It isn't only being able to support yourself and your children it is being willing to do it and feel like you should. My niece lived with parents until she was 19 then got a place with her boyfriend when he was almost 18. They married and had two kids, two rental houses, two auto repair shops but she hadn't worked since pregnant with the second child. She got major depression when she divorced him and he had her move to a rental house she couldn't afford without spousal support. She managed to sell it after a couple years and move to her parents but she took a job that paid little and hated being 40 living with parents enough to figure it out. She got a condo she can afford, paid cash from the house sale and a gift so only monthly fee.
She, her parents, her son never ever would ever ask for a handout. When she and her ex lived together the first winter they had no heat and one small blanket but the downstairs was prefect so people wouldn't know they didn't have enough. Now her son is in college and tells us if it is 19% out and you turn the heat to 45 it is really warm when you come in. Her parents would heat with a wood stove insert for years because work wasn't steady and canning food you got cheap is how you kept the family fed. Once his radiator had a leak he got fixed but couldn't afford antifreeze so he would drain it every night and refill in the morning. He has been married 48 years now to the girl who was 17 and living with her dad when he married her. She has never lived alone but got a good education and had a good career now gets her own pension and retirement funds. She will only live alone if widowed, never needed to or wanted to except when he was in the Navy shipped out.
My aunt married at 17 and stayed married 65 years, never supported herself or lived alone until widowed. If she didn't have 4 kids she might have preferred to divorce but no job skills and youngest son disabled it was better to stay married, he husband treated her well but she might not have been happy.

[msventoux]

I grew with the example of the woman being unable (actually unwilling) to stand on her own.  My mom left my dad, but a few months later we went back.  I never fully forgave her for that as us kids had to be exposed to an extremely toxic environment again for years afterwards. 

She never held a job and I think that's part of why she went back to him; fear of having to support a family.  We moved in with grandma when we left, but she was old and in ill health, so I think Mom figured she'd kick the bucket soon.  Rather than try to get a job and skills while she had the support of her mother, she just decided to go back to what was familiar.  If nothing else it served as an excellent example of what not to do and made me perhaps far too independent. 

[Miss Tequila]

Apr 2, 2016 0:16:55 GMT -5 msventoux said:

I grew with the example of the woman being unable (actually unwilling) to stand on her own.  My mom left my dad, but a few months later we went back.  I never fully forgave her for that as us kids had to be exposed to an extremely toxic environment again for years afterwards. 

She never held a job and I think that's part of why she went back to him; fear of having to support a family.  We moved in with grandma when we left, but she was old and in ill health, so I think Mom figured she'd kick the bucket soon.  Rather than try to get a job and skills while she had the support of her mother, she just decided to go back to what was familiar.  If nothing else it served as an excellent example of what not to do and made me perhaps far too independent. 

There is no such thing as "far too independent". Im at a point in my life where I dont "need" a man. That isn't tr same as not wanting someone to share my life with. But financial indeoendence allows me to hire out what my husband used to do. I can't fix anything but I can pay someone to fix it for me. Some men have been intimidated by me and maybe that's partially on me for having my attitude. But at the end of the day, wanting a man is so much better than needing him.

[Shooby]

  Sometimes it isn't "can't make it' but "won't make it".  Like yes, they could leave and could make it but it would be danged uncomfortable to work that hard to make it so they opt for mom and dad.  I think there are people who could make it but less and less people are willing to do the work to make it happen.  In one of the above examples, the cousin moved home presumably to get on her feet, but then continued to make several bad choices.  No amount of help can help with that mindset.
  And, education is helpful but the underlying issue isn't education.  It's one's personal Work Ethic that seems lacking nowadays.  This is the most educated generation in history.

[billisonboard]

Apr 2, 2016 9:57:10 GMT -5 Shooby said:

...
This is the most educated generation in history.

Certainly the most schooled.

[Deleted]

I have always been financially independent. Sometimes it is hard to have conversations, or listen to, dependent people. They just don't get it.

A friend was trying to convince me I should get laser hair removal because it is so worth it. Ummm, for me it is more important to pay my car and homeowner's insurance and buy groceries and keep money in my emergency fund. I prefer not to take time off work to drive 100 miles to pay for laser hair removal. Why is that hard to understand? I would be paying for that out of my own pocket. Now, if my spouse was footing the bill . . . . . .

Also, if I have the opportunity to work overtime, I take it most of the time. I am not going to give that up to party and have fun with dependent friends.

I tell myself everyone has different priorities. Which is true when it comes to cases like this.

[happyhoix]

Sometimes it's a personality thing. My little sister has a four year business degree and then got a masters in education but has the kind of personality where she can't tolerate working for a boss (Mom spoiled her - LS can't stand when someone says anything 'negative' about her or her work, so within six months of landing every job she decides her boss hates her and she wants to quit).

She was a full time SAHM for about 10 years, but her DH (who also hates to work) had a plan for them to retire early, and he needed her to contribute so they could save up enough cash. Reluctantly, she has taken a series of low paying, entry type jobs, usually only working part time, and she complains bitterly about how much she hates working (I guess she thinks the rest of us just LOVE our jobs   I've tried to give her suggestions on how she could update her business skills, or how she could get her toe into the educational pool again, but she doesn't want any suggestions, she just wants to bitch and whine, and then six months later quit and then drag it out as long as possible before she lands another low paying job.

She could be a teacher and get a pension when she retires. She could use her business degree and earn a lot more. If her DH ever gets tired of the whining and leaves her, she'll be up the creek for sure - but this minimal level of employment is the only employment she can apparently tolerate.