Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 3, 2016 20:34:34 GMT -5
You guys honestly pack heat while you're walking around your day-to-day lives? If some guy wants my wallet badly enough that I have to blow him away to stop him, he can have it. People might have guns. If you want someone's wallet badly enough that might not stop you. If you just want someone's wallet but not enough to take it from a person with a gun, you might rethink your choice. Suppose a guy does make off with my wallet. He gets maybe $100.00 in cash plus $500.00 out of the ATM, assuming I can't cancel in time and my bank won't reimburse me. It'll cost me another $500.00 in time and expense to get all my cards reissued. Hence I'm out between $600 and $1,100.00, assuming I'm mugged or held up, which has statistically negligible odds of occurring. How much have you spent on firearms, licenses, accessories, ammo, and training in the past 20 years? Hence it doesn't make sense from an expense standpoint either.
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Apr 3, 2016 20:38:13 GMT -5
"I've noticed that most every law enforcement agent carries a gun. I figure they must know something." I've noticed that they put all real crazies in the insane asylum! Maybe we should all be housed there! I am ok with someone else packing, it doesn't bother me, just make sure that is "concealed" as in not too many people know or see that you carry a gun. I just don't care to pack, never felt the need for! Just because the LEOs carry a weapon that doesn't mean that all of us should carry! There are many, many carpenters that carry a claw hammer arround. Does that mean everybody should carry one? What if there is a nail somewhere that needs to be pounded? That( LEOs carrying weapons) must be the lamest excuse that I've ever heard of for carrying a gun! Open carry states have decided to allow all to carry in the open(as per the name of it). Personaly I think that makes them a bunch of wusses and scared litle kittens that are afraid that someone else out there will hurts them. Would be good if they would put on some pants and grow a pair. Flash news people: nobody gives a rat's behind about you going out for ice cream! If your time is up then...well, your time is up! Simple as that! And please do spare me the 2nd Amendment explanation. I support that but I don't feel the need to have a loaded weapon when going to the grocery store!
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 3, 2016 20:38:52 GMT -5
People might have guns. If you want someone's wallet badly enough that might not stop you. If you just want someone's wallet but not enough to take it from a person with a gun, you might rethink your choice. Suppose a guy does make off with my wallet. He gets maybe $100.00 in cash plus $500.00 out of the ATM, assuming I can't cancel in time and my bank won't reimburse me. It'll cost me another $500.00 in time and expense to get all my cards reissued. Hence I'm out between $600 and $1,100.00, assuming I'm mugged or held up, which has statistically negligible odds of occurring. How much have you spent on firearms, licenses, accessories, ammo, and training in the past 20 years? Hence it doesn't make sense from an expense standpoint either. Expense is not the point.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2016 20:41:44 GMT -5
People might have guns. If you want someone's wallet badly enough that might not stop you. If you just want someone's wallet but not enough to take it from a person with a gun, you might rethink your choice. Suppose a guy does make off with my wallet. He gets maybe $100.00 in cash plus $500.00 out of the ATM, assuming I can't cancel in time and my bank won't reimburse me. It'll cost me another $500.00 in time and expense to get all my cards reissued. Hence I'm out between $600 and $1,100.00, assuming I'm mugged or held up, which has statistically negligible odds of occurring. How much have you spent on firearms, licenses, accessories, ammo, and training in the past 20 years? Hence it doesn't make sense from an expense standpoint either. how much sense does it make for you to spend hours posting here? People enjoy what they enjoy. If you come to America you are safer because Greg and people like him have a gun. I am safer because Greg and people like him have a gun. That costs me nothing. People who are responsible gun owners make the world a safer place. I do not think you can state the statistics. How do you know someone didn't rob someone else because they do not want to risk a gun owner.
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ktunes
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Post by ktunes on Apr 4, 2016 1:58:28 GMT -5
the ppq is a great gun...i had one a while back and will probably pick up the .45 now that they make it in that caliber...
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 4, 2016 10:33:08 GMT -5
Suppose a guy does make off with my wallet. He gets maybe $100.00 in cash plus $500.00 out of the ATM, assuming I can't cancel in time and my bank won't reimburse me. It'll cost me another $500.00 in time and expense to get all my cards reissued. Hence I'm out between $600 and $1,100.00, assuming I'm mugged or held up, which has statistically negligible odds of occurring. How much have you spent on firearms, licenses, accessories, ammo, and training in the past 20 years? Hence it doesn't make sense from an expense standpoint either. how much sense does it make for you to spend hours posting here? People enjoy what they enjoy. If you come to America you are safer because Greg and people like him have a gun. I am safer because Greg and people like him have a gun. That costs me nothing. People who are responsible gun owners make the world a safer place. I do not think you can state the statistics. How do you know someone didn't rob someone else because they do not want to risk a gun owner. If you enjoy owning guns and firing them, fine. I'm saying that if the only reason you carry is for self-protection, statistically it doesn't make sense. How can I state this with certainty? For one, nobody in Canada carries, and the odds of being mugged or held up here are negligible, especially if you don't tread into dangerous territory at dangerous times. For another, even if somebody is held up, a simple analysis reveals that the monetary loss is only a fraction of what's spent buying, maintaining, and training to use a weapon for self-defense. Hence the odds that I come out on top by packing heat are: a( b + (1- b) d) c where a is the probability I'll be held up, b is the probability that if I'm packing heat I won't be held up, d is the probability that the situation turns out well if my assailant decides to hold me up even though I'm packing, and c is the probability that the mugging costs me more than just my wallet. From Canada's violent crime statistics, a is no greater than 0.005. I'll be generous and estimate b to be 0.5, even though it would realistically be zero if my firearm was concealed. I'll likewise be generous with d and assume 0.5, although there's nowhere near a 50% probability of the situation turning out "well" if somebody decides to mug me even though I'm armed. The value of c is hardest to estimate, but every crime resource I found indicated that civilian casualties during hold-ups are "extremely rare", so I'll peg it at 0.1. That gives a 0.0375% chance that packing heat for self-defense is the better option.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 4, 2016 10:44:23 GMT -5
how much sense does it make for you to spend hours posting here? People enjoy what they enjoy. If you come to America you are safer because Greg and people like him have a gun. I am safer because Greg and people like him have a gun. That costs me nothing. People who are responsible gun owners make the world a safer place. I do not think you can state the statistics. How do you know someone didn't rob someone else because they do not want to risk a gun owner. If you enjoy owning guns and firing them, fine. I'm saying that if the only reason you carry is for self-protection, statistically it doesn't make sense. How can I state this with certainty? For one, nobody in Canada carries, and the odds of being mugged or held up here are negligible, especially if you don't tread into dangerous territory at dangerous times. For another, even if somebody is held up, a simple analysis reveals that the monetary loss is only a fraction of what's spent buying, maintaining, and training to use a weapon for self-defense. Hence the odds that I come out on top by packing heat are: a( b + (1- b) d) c where a is the probability I'll be held up, b is the probability that if I'm packing heat I won't be held up, d is the probability that the situation turns out well if my assailant decides to hold me up even though I'm packing, and c is the probability that the mugging costs me more than just my wallet. From Canada's violent crime statistics, a is no greater than 0.005. I'll be generous and estimate b to be 0.5, even though it would realistically be zero if my firearm was concealed. I'll likewise be generous with d and assume 0.5, although there's nowhere near a 50% probability of the situation turning out "well" if somebody decides to mug me even though I'm armed. The value of c is hardest to estimate, but every crime resource I found indicated that civilian casualties during hold-ups are "extremely rare", so I'll peg it at 0.1. That gives a 0.0375% chance that packing heat for self-defense is the better option. Canada =/= US
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 4, 2016 11:08:25 GMT -5
... If you come to America you are safer because Greg and people like him have a gun. I am safer because Greg and people like him have a gun. ... That is quite a statement.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 4, 2016 11:15:11 GMT -5
If you enjoy owning guns and firing them, fine. I'm saying that if the only reason you carry is for self-protection, statistically it doesn't make sense. How can I state this with certainty? For one, nobody in Canada carries, and the odds of being mugged or held up here are negligible, especially if you don't tread into dangerous territory at dangerous times. For another, even if somebody is held up, a simple analysis reveals that the monetary loss is only a fraction of what's spent buying, maintaining, and training to use a weapon for self-defense. Hence the odds that I come out on top by packing heat are: a( b + (1- b) d) c where a is the probability I'll be held up, b is the probability that if I'm packing heat I won't be held up, d is the probability that the situation turns out well if my assailant decides to hold me up even though I'm packing, and c is the probability that the mugging costs me more than just my wallet. From Canada's violent crime statistics, a is no greater than 0.005. I'll be generous and estimate b to be 0.5, even though it would realistically be zero if my firearm was concealed. I'll likewise be generous with d and assume 0.5, although there's nowhere near a 50% probability of the situation turning out "well" if somebody decides to mug me even though I'm armed. The value of c is hardest to estimate, but every crime resource I found indicated that civilian casualties during hold-ups are "extremely rare", so I'll peg it at 0.1. That gives a 0.0375% chance that packing heat for self-defense is the better option. Canada =/= US True. But the numbers don't change that much, unless you're walking through the hood. Why you'd be doing that, I don't know. And frankly I don't think a firearm is going to keep you a whole lot safer there anyway. I'm not pro-gun-control or anti-gun, but I've never seen any compelling argument that packing heat makes people safer. As a form of recreation: fine. Go nuts.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 4, 2016 11:25:26 GMT -5
True. But the numbers don't change that much, unless you're walking through the hood. Why you'd be doing that, I don't know. And frankly I don't think a firearm is going to keep you a whole lot safer there anyway. I'm not pro-gun-control or anti-gun, but I've never seen any compelling argument that packing heat makes people safer. As a form of recreation: fine. Go nuts. We all do a lot of things that make us feel safer, even though the risk is very low. I don't see how this argument is any more valid than any of the other things that you do regularly to avoid something bad happening to you. Hell, I know I do things where my risk is low (including carrying on occasion), I don't see your point. The risk of you getting robbed/carjacked is low, right. But I'm sure you avoid walking in areas that are not well lit, or you lock your car doors if you are driving. I'm guessing that your house doors are locked, right? You've just lowered your risk of something happening. You've not taken it to 0, but you've lowered it. So how is carrying any different?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 12:15:33 GMT -5
True. But the numbers don't change that much, unless you're walking through the hood. Why you'd be doing that, I don't know. And frankly I don't think a firearm is going to keep you a whole lot safer there anyway. I'm not pro-gun-control or anti-gun, but I've never seen any compelling argument that packing heat makes people safer. As a form of recreation: fine. Go nuts. what is that 3 in 10,000? I worked with a guy who had a flat. Two guys stopped to help him, he tried to politely say no thanks, but they insisted. Afterwards they wanted him to pay them. He said she didn't have any money. They insisted. He showed his gun in his waist band and they politely left.I could probably think of another example from someone I know. I think the odds are maybe closers to 1 in a thousand, but that is just a guess and also I might not be reading the decimal number you gave wrong.
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gregintenn
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Post by gregintenn on Apr 4, 2016 12:27:23 GMT -5
True. But the numbers don't change that much, unless you're walking through the hood. Why you'd be doing that, I don't know. And frankly I don't think a firearm is going to keep you a whole lot safer there anyway. I'm not pro-gun-control or anti-gun, but I've never seen any compelling argument that packing heat makes people safer. As a form of recreation: fine. Go nuts. How does it harm you if I decide to be armed?
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milee
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Post by milee on Apr 4, 2016 18:09:36 GMT -5
True. But the numbers don't change that much, unless you're walking through the hood. Why you'd be doing that, I don't know. And frankly I don't think a firearm is going to keep you a whole lot safer there anyway. I'm not pro-gun-control or anti-gun, but I've never seen any compelling argument that packing heat makes people safer. As a form of recreation: fine. Go nuts. what is that 3 in 10,000? I worked with a guy who had a flat. Two guys stopped to help him, he tried to politely say no thanks, but they insisted. Afterwards they wanted him to pay them. He said she didn't have any money. They insisted. He showed his gun in his waist band and they politely left.I could probably think of another example from someone I know. I think the odds are maybe closers to 1 in a thousand, but that is just a guess and also I might not be reading the decimal number you gave wrong. Doesn't really matter if you're misreading the decimal number or not. The idea that you can make up a formula for predicting risk based on nothing other than a guess then plug in a bunch of numbers that you estimate also based on nothing other than a guess - is laughable.
I do not carry a gun. I have my CCP because my husband often has guns in his car and in case I trade cars or some similar thing I want to make sure I'm not unwittingly breaking a law. I'm also not a big fan of guns and if I didn't live with DH, probably wouldn't have one. That said, I think the Second Amendment protects the right of Americans to own guns and am not particularly anti-gun. All this is a long way of me saying that I don't have a dog in this fight and don't choose to carry a gun. But that's not because of some crazy made up formula into which I pulled numbers out of the air to support a conclusion I'd already reached before actually manufacturing the evidence to fit.
Am I really the only one that calls BS on Virgil's attempts to support his personal opinions with made up facts? Why is anybody responding anything to his post other than - "Nice try. Love how you made up a formula to attempt to make it appear that your opinion is instead some supported fact and not something you fabricated out of the air!"
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 18:18:34 GMT -5
I thought his "made up facts" weren't really meant to be taken seriously.
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milee
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Post by milee on Apr 4, 2016 18:22:24 GMT -5
I thought his "made up facts" weren't really meant to be taken seriously. Gotcha.
Maybe instead we should just respond with our own made up formula and plugged in figures. I'm pretty sure I could come up with a Risk Factor of 147.6 - which is pretty high on the GonnaDie Scale. We might all need to carry two guns plus a knife with that kind of peril around.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 4, 2016 18:48:25 GMT -5
I thought his "made up facts" weren't really meant to be taken seriously. Gotcha.
Maybe instead we should just respond with our own made up formula and plugged in figures. I'm pretty sure I could come up with a Risk Factor of 147.6 - which is pretty high on the GonnaDie Scale. We might all need to carry two guns plus a knife with that kind of peril around.
Canada =/= US. This should have been sufficient. He is trying to compare apples and oranges. That makes any formula he pulls out bunk. Even if his formula was legit, it is not generalizable across the US. The likelihood of an armed robbery in downtown Seattle is different from Friday Harbor (<100 miles away) which is different from downtown LA.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 4, 2016 18:51:27 GMT -5
True. But the numbers don't change that much, unless you're walking through the hood. Why you'd be doing that, I don't know. And frankly I don't think a firearm is going to keep you a whole lot safer there anyway. I'm not pro-gun-control or anti-gun, but I've never seen any compelling argument that packing heat makes people safer. As a form of recreation: fine. Go nuts. We all do a lot of things that make us feel safer, even though the risk is very low. I don't see how this argument is any more valid than any of the other things that you do regularly to avoid something bad happening to you. Hell, I know I do things where my risk is low (including carrying on occasion), I don't see your point. The risk of you getting robbed/carjacked is low, right. But I'm sure you avoid walking in areas that are not well lit, or you lock your car doors if you are driving. I'm guessing that your house doors are locked, right? You've just lowered your risk of something happening. You've not taken it to 0, but you've lowered it. So how is carrying any different? It's expensive. The guilt of killing somebody is harder to bear than many realize, even if it is in defence of one's property. It may lead to escalation of situations that otherwise wouldn't escalate. It might also inspire certain criminals to pack heat where they'd ordinarily only carry weapons like knives, etc. Finally, it's far easier to think of oneself as a responsible gun owner than to be a responsible gun owner. Unfortunately, not everybody who thinks they're a responsible owner can trust their judgment. Those are my only issues with it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 18:54:53 GMT -5
We all do a lot of things that make us feel safer, even though the risk is very low. I don't see how this argument is any more valid than any of the other things that you do regularly to avoid something bad happening to you. Hell, I know I do things where my risk is low (including carrying on occasion), I don't see your point. The risk of you getting robbed/carjacked is low, right. But I'm sure you avoid walking in areas that are not well lit, or you lock your car doors if you are driving. I'm guessing that your house doors are locked, right? You've just lowered your risk of something happening. You've not taken it to 0, but you've lowered it. So how is carrying any different? It's expensive. The guilt of killing somebody is harder to bear than many realize, even if it is in defence of one's property. It may lead to escalation of situations that otherwise wouldn't escalate. It might also inspire certain criminals to pack heat where they'd ordinarily only carry weapons like knives, etc. Finally, it's far easier to think of oneself as a responsible gun owner than to be a responsible gun owner. Unfortunately, not everybody who thinks they're a responsible owner can trust their judgment. Those are my only issues with it. A few of the guys I work with were talking about prison today. One of them is an ex-con that I have known for about a year. I asked him today what he was in prison for and he said 'murder'. It didnt seem to be hard for him to deal with. Who knows though.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 4, 2016 18:56:25 GMT -5
True. But the numbers don't change that much, unless you're walking through the hood. Why you'd be doing that, I don't know. And frankly I don't think a firearm is going to keep you a whole lot safer there anyway. I'm not pro-gun-control or anti-gun, but I've never seen any compelling argument that packing heat makes people safer. As a form of recreation: fine. Go nuts. How does it harm you if I decide to be armed? Generally speaking, it doesn't. That's assuming you don't shoot me by mistake during a holdup, and assuming your drawing a weapon during a holdup doesn't inspire the perpetrator to shoot back, killing me in the crossfire.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 4, 2016 18:57:22 GMT -5
It's expensive. The guilt of killing somebody is harder to bear than many realize, even if it is in defence of one's property. It may lead to escalation of situations that otherwise wouldn't escalate. It might also inspire certain criminals to pack heat where they'd ordinarily only carry weapons like knives, etc. Finally, it's far easier to think of oneself as a responsible gun owner than to be a responsible gun owner. Unfortunately, not everybody who thinks they're a responsible owner can trust their judgment. Those are my only issues with it. A few of the guys I work with were talking about prison today. One of them is an ex-con that I have known for about a year. I asked him today what he was in prison for and he said 'murder'. It didnt seem to be hard for him to deal with. Who knows though. I'm assuming most readers aren't psychopathic.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 4, 2016 19:06:40 GMT -5
True. But the numbers don't change that much, unless you're walking through the hood. Why you'd be doing that, I don't know. And frankly I don't think a firearm is going to keep you a whole lot safer there anyway. I'm not pro-gun-control or anti-gun, but I've never seen any compelling argument that packing heat makes people safer. As a form of recreation: fine. Go nuts. what is that 3 in 10,000? I worked with a guy who had a flat. Two guys stopped to help him, he tried to politely say no thanks, but they insisted. Afterwards they wanted him to pay them. He said she didn't have any money. They insisted. He showed his gun in his waist band and they politely left.I could probably think of another example from someone I know. I think the odds are maybe closers to 1 in a thousand, but that is just a guess and also I might not be reading the decimal number you gave wrong. I'm just going by the aggregate federal violent crime statistics in Canada. Average crime rates in the US are higher, but not by a factor of 10. As I understand it, rule 1 in weapons training is "Never flash a firearm unless you're able and willing to use it." Hence if you're able and willing to shoot two men for a "tire repair" extortion racket, be my guest. I'm not.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 19:25:55 GMT -5
what is that 3 in 10,000? I worked with a guy who had a flat. Two guys stopped to help him, he tried to politely say no thanks, but they insisted. Afterwards they wanted him to pay them. He said she didn't have any money. They insisted. He showed his gun in his waist band and they politely left.I could probably think of another example from someone I know. I think the odds are maybe closers to 1 in a thousand, but that is just a guess and also I might not be reading the decimal number you gave wrong. I'm just going by the aggregate federal violent crime statistics in Canada. Average crime rates in the US are higher, but not by a factor of 10. As I understand it, rule 1 in weapons training is "Never flash a firearm unless you're able and willing to use it." Hence if you're able and willing to shoot two men for a "tire repair" extortion racket, be my guest. I'm not.You mention dealing with having to live with shooting someone. I think you should consider the ramifications of living as a victim of violent crime. The guy I mentioned did not have to live either way. He was threatened, had a gun to protect himself, and was left alone. Given his situation could there be a better outcome?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 4, 2016 20:18:44 GMT -5
I'm just going by the aggregate federal violent crime statistics in Canada. Average crime rates in the US are higher, but not by a factor of 10. As I understand it, rule 1 in weapons training is "Never flash a firearm unless you're able and willing to use it." Hence if you're able and willing to shoot two men for a "tire repair" extortion racket, be my guest. I'm not.You mention dealing with having to live with shooting someone. I think you should consider the ramifications of living as a victim of violent crime. The guy I mentioned did not have to live either way. He was threatened, had a gun to protect himself, and was left alone. Given his situation could there be a better outcome? I would've paid both men $20 each. If I didn't have the money or they insisted on more, I'd have appealed to their sense of decency. If they beat me up, I'd still rather live with that than the knowledge I'd killed a man. If they killed me, then I agree my shooting them is the better outcome, but at this point we're talking about extremely small odds. I also believe in the power of prayer. You can be certain that I'd be praying through that kind of ordeal. If I wound up dead in spite of my prayers, then I guess it was my time to go. I don't consider self defense categorically immoral, but I do believe we ought to consider the moral and social implications of carrying around the most lethal weapon ever designed by man during our day-to-day business. Furthermore, I categorically will not go any place where I feel carrying a firearm is prudent.
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gregintenn
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Post by gregintenn on Apr 4, 2016 20:30:17 GMT -5
You mention dealing with having to live with shooting someone. I think you should consider the ramifications of living as a victim of violent crime. The guy I mentioned did not have to live either way. He was threatened, had a gun to protect himself, and was left alone. Given his situation could there be a better outcome? I would've paid both men $20 each. If I didn't have the money or they insisted on more, I'd have appealed to their sense of decency. If they beat me up, I'd still rather live with that than the knowledge I'd killed a man. If they killed me, then I agree my shooting them is the better outcome, but at this point we're talking about extremely small odds. I also believe in the power of prayer. You can be certain that I'd be praying through that kind of ordeal. If I wound up dead in spite of my prayers, then I guess it was my time to go. I don't consider self defense categorically immoral, but I do believe we ought to consider the moral and social implications of carrying around the most lethal weapon ever designed by man during our day-to-day business. Furthermore, I categorically will not go any place where I feel carrying a firearm is prudent. You do it your way and I'll do it mine. That's what makes a free society great.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 4, 2016 20:39:11 GMT -5
I would've paid both men $20 each. If I didn't have the money or they insisted on more, I'd have appealed to their sense of decency. If they beat me up, I'd still rather live with that than the knowledge I'd killed a man. If they killed me, then I agree my shooting them is the better outcome, but at this point we're talking about extremely small odds. I also believe in the power of prayer. You can be certain that I'd be praying through that kind of ordeal. If I wound up dead in spite of my prayers, then I guess it was my time to go. I don't consider self defense categorically immoral, but I do believe we ought to consider the moral and social implications of carrying around the most lethal weapon ever designed by man during our day-to-day business. Furthermore, I categorically will not go any place where I feel carrying a firearm is prudent. You do it your way and I'll do it mine. That's what makes a free society great. I'm not trying to grab your guns. I'm saying that just because you can...
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Post by gregintenn on Apr 5, 2016 7:35:26 GMT -5
You do it your way and I'll do it mine. That's what makes a free society great. I'm not trying to grab your guns. I'm saying that just because you can... And I'm saying having options is a good thing.
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Virgil Showlion
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[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Apr 5, 2016 12:21:15 GMT -5
I'm not trying to grab your guns. I'm saying that just because you can... And I'm saying having options is a good thing. I disagree. I think it's expensive and comes with its own set of serious risks. I also think it's one of the reasons why nobody in the OECD nations wants to live in the US unless there's a truckload of money involved. Your criminals love having options too. It's a veritable paradise full of options.
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gregintenn
Senior Member
Resident hillbilly
Joined: Dec 28, 2015 17:07:59 GMT -5
Posts: 2,840
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Post by gregintenn on Apr 5, 2016 12:38:57 GMT -5
And I'm saying having options is a good thing. I disagree. I think it's expensive and comes with its own set of serious risks. I also think it's one of the reasons why nobody in the OECD nations wants to live in the US unless there's a truckload of money involved. Your criminals love having options too. It's a veritable paradise full of options. Criminals will always have those options. The law abiding populace are the only ones affected when a law reduces options.
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