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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2016 17:44:02 GMT -5
Do you think the "practitioners" believe in it? Are they just practicing it to make a quick buck?
I think most of them believe. There are a lot of people out there that are gullible, or they so badly want to believe in something that they're willing to suspend normal skepticism. By practitioners, I meant the so-called "doctors". Do they believe in what they are preaching and selling?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2016 18:02:41 GMT -5
The whole detoxing thing kind of baffles me.... if your kidneys and liver aren't working maybe you should be headed to a medical facility. Well, the OP's practitioner made some claim about heavy metal toxicity- I could see them arguing that the body can't get rid of heavy metals. I once saw a scare article claiming that some of the vegetables that are supposed to be really good for you (kale was one) were really bad because of all the heavy metals and pesticides they drew out of the ground. You can't win. I used to watch Dr. Oz when he was on TV in the fitness center at one of my old jobs. Heck, if we listened to Dr. Oz there'd be no room in our stomachs for ordinary food after we finished eating flax seeds, rose hips, ginseng, garlic, wild hickory nuts and kale juice, followed by a few dozen supplements. I try to use common sense. I do take a few supplements that I hope will lower cholesterol, plus Vitamin C, calcium and low-dose aspirin. We buy them at Costco and I trust their quality control. I get plenty of exercise and eat right 95% of the time. A food elimination diet falls into the "can't hurt, might help" category. Cleanses- I'm not so sure.
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milee
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Post by milee on Mar 30, 2016 18:09:54 GMT -5
I think most of them believe. There are a lot of people out there that are gullible, or they so badly want to believe in something that they're willing to suspend normal skepticism. By practitioners, I meant the so-called "doctors". Do they believe in what they are preaching and selling?
I don't know, but I'm guessing the providers mostly believe. People want to believe certain things... so they do, even if those things sound very loony to others. It could be based on my small, nonscientific sample, but the providers I've met have all been very caring people even if I think their analytical skills aren't what I'd hope for; they truly think they are helping people.
On the other hand, I think most of the manufacturers of herbal supplements are flat out scammers and it makes me very, very angry how they prey on people.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 30, 2016 18:20:23 GMT -5
Actually, there IS a way to test for heavy metal toxicity in the body. It's called a Provoked Urine Test. It measures (clinically, in a laboratory) heavy metal levels in the urine pre-and post-administration of a chelating agent like EDTA. The treatment generally involves either intravenous or oral chelation therapy. Intravenous therapy can be risky (because high levels of metals being dumped all at once into the bloodstream can significantly damage internal organs) and is generally only recommended in a hospital setting for emergency situations (like an acute industrial accident or military warfare exposure). Oral chelation can take several months because it is much more gradual.
This is not some alternative voo-doo medicine. The testing and protocol was developed by US Army doctors between the two World Wars as a treatment for soldiers exposed to chemical warfare.
The problem most folks will run into is that many (if not most) traditional allopathic doctors will pooh-pooh the notion that their clients' symptoms are caused by heavy metal toxicity.
Their training teaches them to understand Acute Exposure. It does not teach them to understand (or even acknowledge) Cumulative Load.
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milee
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Post by milee on Mar 30, 2016 18:33:40 GMT -5
Actually, there IS a way to test for heavy metal toxicity in the body. It's called a Provoked Urine Test. It measures (clinically, in a laboratory) heavy metal levels in the urine pre-and post-administration of a chelating agent like EDTA. The treatment generally involves either intravenous or oral chelation therapy. Intravenous therapy can be risky (because high levels of metals being dumped all at once into the bloodstream can significantly damage internal organs) and is generally only recommended in a hospital setting for emergency situations (like an acute industrial accident or military warfare exposure). Oral chelation can take several months because it is much more gradual.
This is not some alternative voo-doo medicine. The testing and protocol was developed by US Army doctors between the two World Wars as a treatment for soldiers exposed to chemical warfare.
The problem most folks will run into is that many (if not most) traditional allopathic doctors will pooh-pooh the notion that their clients' symptoms are caused by heavy metal toxicity.
Their training teaches them to understand Acute Exposure. It does not teach them to understand (or even acknowledge) Cumulative Load. I can't tell if you're responding to my post since you use my phrase "voodoo" medicine. What you describe in your post - blood testing and chelation - is not voodoo. The testing Bluester's healthcare provider did was not blood testing or chelation and a quick read about it will show that it appears to be as scientifically supported as voodoo.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2016 18:40:13 GMT -5
Actually, there IS a way to test for heavy metal toxicity in the body. It's called a Provoked Urine Test. It measures (clinically, in a laboratory) heavy metal levels in the urine pre-and post-administration of a chelating agent like EDTA. The treatment generally involves either intravenous or oral chelation therapy. Intravenous therapy can be risky (because high levels of metals being dumped all at once into the bloodstream can significantly damage internal organs) and is generally only recommended in a hospital setting for emergency situations (like an acute industrial accident or military warfare exposure). Oral chelation can take several months because it is much more gradual.
This is not some alternative voo-doo medicine. The testing and protocol was developed by US Army doctors between the two World Wars as a treatment for soldiers exposed to chemical warfare.
The problem most folks will run into is that many (if not most) traditional allopathic doctors will pooh-pooh the notion that their clients' symptoms are caused by heavy metal toxicity.
Their training teaches them to understand Acute Exposure. It does not teach them to understand (or even acknowledge) Cumulative Load. I can't tell if you're responding to my post since you use my phrase "voodoo" medicine. What you describe in your post - blood testing and chelation - is not voodoo. The testing Bluester's healthcare provider did was not blood testing or chelation and a quick read about it will show that it appears to be as scientifically supported as voodoo. Voodoo:
I have an aromatherapy diffuser I use once in a while because I enjoy some of the scents. When by fiancé comes home and I have it going, he calls it my "voodoo shit". LOL
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milee
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Post by milee on Mar 30, 2016 18:46:20 GMT -5
I can't tell if you're responding to my post since you use my phrase "voodoo" medicine. What you describe in your post - blood testing and chelation - is not voodoo. The testing Bluester's healthcare provider did was not blood testing or chelation and a quick read about it will show that it appears to be as scientifically supported as voodoo. Voodoo:
I have an aromatherapy diffuser I use once in a while because I enjoy some of the scents. When by fiancé comes home and I have it going, he calls it my "voodoo shit". LOL
As long as you don't think the aromatherapy is going to cure cancer, use it and enjoy! Who cares if it's voodoo if it's low risk and you're not substituting it for needed care. Very different animal than putting yourself through a hugely strict and complicated elimination diet plus expensive supplements plus 12 doc visits based on how bendy your elbow was or how quickly the energy flowed through your big toe...
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Artemis Windsong
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Favorite Drink: Fresh, clean cold bottled water.
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Mar 30, 2016 19:47:56 GMT -5
I went to bottled drinking water and have gotten much better. A friend also switched. I don't know what the municipal water changed in the chemicals but a lot of people a now experiencing stomach trouble. One nasty chemical is chloromine. I have been at my current job for one year. We are on the "city" water and we do not have a filter. I wonder if that is contributing to my problem.
A switch to bottled drinking water will tell you quickly. Some people have a preference to what brand. I have been getting my gallons from water kiosks. I bought the full gallon jugs then refill. The refill stations vary also in filtering. I filled at a reverse osmosis only kiosk at one of the grocery stores. One filters through activated charcoal then reverse osmosis. A friend told me there is very little sediment in our municipal water. She had a machine that was similar to how moon shine is made to distill her water. Chemicals don't leave sediment. She did not say why she was making her own distilled water.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 30, 2016 20:44:57 GMT -5
Actually, there IS a way to test for heavy metal toxicity in the body. It's called a Provoked Urine Test. It measures (clinically, in a laboratory) heavy metal levels in the urine pre-and post-administration of a chelating agent like EDTA. The treatment generally involves either intravenous or oral chelation therapy. Intravenous therapy can be risky (because high levels of metals being dumped all at once into the bloodstream can significantly damage internal organs) and is generally only recommended in a hospital setting for emergency situations (like an acute industrial accident or military warfare exposure). Oral chelation can take several months because it is much more gradual.
This is not some alternative voo-doo medicine. The testing and protocol was developed by US Army doctors between the two World Wars as a treatment for soldiers exposed to chemical warfare.
The problem most folks will run into is that many (if not most) traditional allopathic doctors will pooh-pooh the notion that their clients' symptoms are caused by heavy metal toxicity.
Their training teaches them to understand Acute Exposure. It does not teach them to understand (or even acknowledge) Cumulative Load. I can't tell if you're responding to my post since you use my phrase "voodoo" medicine. What you describe in your post - blood testing and chelation - is not voodoo. The testing Bluester's healthcare provider did was not blood testing or chelation and a quick read about it will show that it appears to be as scientifically supported as voodoo. Nope, not referring to you
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Mar 30, 2016 22:08:25 GMT -5
Dairy and eggs... both things that I was told that I was allergic to as a child. The result was horrible sinus issues that led to infections and high fever every month for years.
I have major outdoor and indoor allergies and last year my chiropractor suggested I try removing them from my diet... I did and I was so so angry to see how much better my allergies became. I have dairy about once every month or so, and it makes me feel like shit for about 2 days and then the congestion clears and I am back to normal. The dairy was also causing inflamation in my body.
I also ditch sugar and flour about 5 days a week. I feel better, less bloated, less sluggish and my stomach feels better. I lost 30 lbs without changing caloric intake at all.
When I eat more sugar/flour/ dairy than I should... I start getting reflux, and my allergies get way worse and my stomach boats like crazy!
It still makes me angry about the dairy and eggs. I love cheese. I think about it everyday. My beloved manchego... But I don't miss my allergies getting so bad that tears down from my bloodshot eyes. Constant sinus infections. Rounds of steroids. But cheese...
Sent from my SM-G920T using proboards
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Mar 30, 2016 23:07:07 GMT -5
Exactly what were the tests that they performed? It was Nutritional Response Testing and had to do with reflexes. That is what makes me skeptical.
NRT is Applied Kinesiology. More woo.
www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Tests/ak.html
You should be skeptical. That diet is extremely restrictive. No wheat, dairy, fruit, sugars, etc. What are you going to eat?
Here's what I do. Not saying it's what you should do. I eat a lot of fish, fruits and vegetables. I cook from scratch most of the time. No heavily-processed food. I restrict sweets because I don't like them. I take a multivitamin, Vit D to combat SAD and an iron supplement because I'm anemic due to a chronic malabsorption syndrome.. I drink a lot of water, but don't buy bottled water. A lot of bottled water IS tap water.
If you have back pain, some stretching exercises, yoga and tai chi can help. Sleep on your side with a pillow between your legs.
"Eat food, not too much, mostly plants."
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Mar 30, 2016 23:30:27 GMT -5
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Mar 30, 2016 23:47:48 GMT -5
Now, for the depression...... Is it a reactive or endogenous depression? A reactive depression is a reaction to factors or losses in your life, like a death or breakup. Those can be cured with time. And talk, like a bereavement group or grief counselling. It usually resolves itself with a bit of work. An endogenous depression is a major depressive disorder which is characterised by feelings of discouragement, emptiness, lack of pleasure in anything, isolation, feelings of inadequacy, etc. It can be sporadic and mild, or profound. Profound depression cannot be cured by diet, and usually requires medication. The new meds have way fewer side effects than the old tricyclics. They're nothing to be afraid of. It often requires some fine tuning to get the right dose and right meds.
(I'm a nurse)
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Mar 31, 2016 2:40:38 GMT -5
I am sensitive to sodium, it swells my ankle and raises my blood pressure. It do pretty good if I don't eat added salt or processed foods. Diabetes means I need to control unrefined carbs or I gain weight and avoid blood sugar medicine. So far I don't need any medicine for anything.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Mar 31, 2016 6:46:12 GMT -5
One suggestion for your back pain - if your job requires you to sit a lot at work you might want to invest in a desk top ergo unit that raises your keypad and monitors from desk height to where you can work from a standing position. Then, rather than sitting all day, you can shift from sitting to standing and back again.
Our HR person has one and was telling me she used to have to visit the chiro weekly for back problems, but since she's been using the ergo desk device she's been able to stop - she said it felt like her back was just 'loosening up.' I got one a few weeks ago and while I don't have back problems, I have been having a knee problem since Christmas when I strained my left one a little helping my mom in and out of her wheelchair. I was afraid standing more might make my knee worse but oddly it's making it better - I guess it's getting stronger - and I've also had a better attention span at work, and feel more energetic at home, which seems counterintuitive, but there it is.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Mar 31, 2016 6:57:22 GMT -5
One suggestion for your back pain - if your job requires you to sit a lot at work you might want to invest in a desk top ergo unit that raises your keypad and monitors from desk height to where you can work from a standing position. Then, rather than sitting all day, you can shift from sitting to standing and back again.
Our HR person has one and was telling me she used to have to visit the chiro weekly for back problems, but since she's been using the ergo desk device she's been able to stop - she said it felt like her back was just 'loosening up.' I got one a few weeks ago and while I don't have back problems, I have been having a knee problem since Christmas when I strained my left one a little helping my mom in and out of her wheelchair. I was afraid standing more might make my knee worse but oddly it's making it better - I guess it's getting stronger - and I've also had a better attention span at work, and feel more energetic at home, which seems counterintuitive, but there it is. My firm has started supplying these... I am on the list to receive one next month and can't wait. Sitting all day is freaking killer even though I get up and takes walks as often as I can. Sent from my SM-G920T using proboards
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Mar 31, 2016 7:18:11 GMT -5
The other group in my office got them and I'm jealous. We are probably getting evicted from our current space in the next year. So there is no way they will buy them for us now. I try to walk but sometimes I just have to put my butt in the chair and get work done.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 8:47:03 GMT -5
This is sort of related to the naturopathic thread.
Do you have any food sensitivities? What are the symptoms?
I went to a alternative & holistic health clinic to see what they had to say, sort of a second opinion, about depression and bad back and neck. I do not want to go on antidepressants. After some tests, they told me I had a whole list of food sensitivities (wheat, flour, fruit sugar, sugar, eggs, dairy). I also have high levels of metal toxicity. I had no clue. I have no digestion issues with these foods.
What are your thoughts on that? Would you believe them? I cannot decide if I should follow their program. I am somewhat of a skeptic.
Yes, I do have sensitivities to a few foods, but moreso my sensitivities come from what is added to foods or how some foods are prepared for consumption. Charcoal grilled foods will give me a headache if I consume more than one serving. Even foods grilled too long on a gas grill will give me a headache. The two natural foods that will cause me headaches is, watermelon and tomatoes (if I over indulge). Tomatoes carry a form of its own natural MSG. I forget what it is about watermelons that cause headaches. All I know is, I love watermelon, and endure the pain afterwards, if I've over indulged. I can never be fooled by someone telling me food additives are not in a food, because I ALWAYS have a reaction to artificial/synthetic anything!!! Chlorine causes inflammation to the skeletal, so I only drink distilled water, and add my own (store bought) mineral drops to the water. Distilled water is considered "dead", if minerals are not put back in, the distilling processing robs from the water. I will be seeing a holistic doctor in July, and will be more than happy to share any worthwhile findings I think may be of interest, here, once I do. I think most are somewhat skeptic to accept holistic findings, because we have become so trained to accept prescribed drugs and traditional therapy over the years- Today, I am much more skeptical of the norm, but definitely not plunging both feet forward and into the holistic methods either. I shall listen, learn, and wait and see what this holistic doctor is all about.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 31, 2016 9:12:47 GMT -5
This is of course dependent on your own genetics and body chemistry.
www.medicinenet.com/medicines_that_cause_depression/page3.htm
Medicines can cause depression and not all of them are listed here.
www.prevention.com/food/foods-cause-depression
Recently, researchers at Columbia University decided to see if having refined carbohydrates in your diet can make you depressed. Well, dust off the Paleo cookbook, because the answer is yes: Using data from the Women's Health Initiative—which is tracking more than 70,000 women—the researchers found that the higher a woman's blood sugar rose after eating sugar and refined grains, the higher her risk of depression. In the study, published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, the researchers also found the reverse to be true: A diet high in whole grains and produce actually lowers a woman's risk of depression.
A diet high in sugar can raise levels of inflammation throughout the body and brain—and now research is tying inflammation to higher incidences of depression. One study published in JAMA Psychiatry found that brain inflammation was 30% higher in clinically depressed patients; another study published in the same journal found that patients with mild inflammation who took medication used to treat autoimmune or inflammatory diseases saw decreases in their depression symptoms.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 9:49:28 GMT -5
I did a 5-day clean eating challenge in February to get me back on track. Before that, I was drinking a soda (not diet) every day with my lunch and eating candy for dessert; every Friday I ate a sweet roll at the office. (I am a healthy weight.) That worked, breaking my overindulging on sugar habit. Now I enjoy a small pieces of Easter candy once in a while. My depression did improve somewhat. I am not sure if it was because of my change in diet or the fact that spring is right around the corner. My depression could have been caused by external factors too (quit toxic job one year ago, blocked bully sister four months ago).
Since it is tax season, I am sitting at my desk a lot more than normal. That could contribute to back and neck pain. I do stretches once or twice a day faithfully, always have.
Last October I went to a nurse practitioner for a preventative care appointment. When I mentioned my depression, she immediately prescribed anti-depressants. I did not want to take them.
I made the appointment with the holistic doctor months ago mainly because of my depression. Since I had the appointment made, I decided to keep it because I was curious what she would have to say. My results were way more than I wanted to hear regarding the food sensitivities.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Mar 31, 2016 9:50:14 GMT -5
One thing to note....a naturopath is not the same thing as a holistic doctor. More and more doctors are becoming holistic, which is defined by treating the whole body instead, of different individual parts.
They realize that it's all interconnected, and are making more of an effort to examine nutrition, sleep patterns and social factors when treating their patients.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 31, 2016 9:50:28 GMT -5
Chlorine causes inflammation to the skeletal, so I only drink distilled water, and add my own (store bought) mineral drops to the water. Distilled water is considered "dead", if minerals are not put back in, the distilling processing robs from the water.I hate to tell you this, but the distillation process does not remove chlorine, or any chlorine by-products from water. To remove chlorine, you need to use a carbon filter or run the water through reverse osmosis. www.iwawaterwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Articles/Distilled_Treatment
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Mar 31, 2016 10:05:17 GMT -5
I did a 5-day clean eating challenge in February to get me back on track. Before that, I was drinking a soda (not diet) every day with my lunch and eating candy for dessert; every Friday I ate a sweet roll at the office. (I am a healthy weight.) That worked, breaking my overindulging on sugar habit. Now I enjoy a small pieces of Easter candy once in a while. My depression did improve somewhat. I am not sure if it was because of my change in diet or the fact that spring is right around the corner. My depression could have been caused by external factors too (quit toxic job one year ago, blocked bully sister four months ago).
I don't have depression, but I do know how much anxiety and sleeplessness can be caused by these kinds of external stress. I worked at a toxic job years ago, and had a difficult relationship with a narcissistic sister (fortunately, not both at the same time!) and when I left the job and finally gave up on having a relationship with my sister the relief at not having to deal with that drama was palpable.
I don't know much about depression, not having it myself, but I know it's a difficult struggle, and I hope you find what works for you.
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