milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Mar 29, 2016 11:03:24 GMT -5
Nothing discriminatory or biased in that attitude.
I'm not sure why me stating my experience is discriminatory. I can't think of one man in my 17 years of public accounting that took paternity leave or asked for a reduced schedule when his wife had a child. They usually took a few days off but depending on the time of year, it might have only been the day of the birth. That obviously wasn't the case with women. They jumped right back into long hours and traveling. Again, not the norm with women. While there were a few women who had children and then resumed the long hours and travel, the majority of us didn't.
I do understand how my statement of not wanting to hire someone that could go out on maternity leave could be discriminatory, I have no idea how me writing my experience is also construed as discriminatory. Are you going to tell me that the years you spent in public that the men took as much time off as the women? That men asked not to travel or asked for reduced schedules in the same percentage as women? Because I didn't see it
Describing your experience is not discriminatory.
Stating your experience as a truth or making a statement that implies that one thing is true for all people of a certain type (like your statements that I quoted in my post) is biased and your actions not to hire people based on the assumption that all people of a certain type were likely to do a certain thing is discriminatory.
My experience in public accounting was similar to yours regarding the issue of maternity/paternity leave. Women took more time off for maternity leave than men. But of the people who took large amounts of time off for health issues, many more were men than women. I knew several men who took several months off for heart issues, cancer or injuries but I didn't know a single woman who took significant time off for any of those issues (the few women that had a health issue just quit instead.)
Additionally, the same actions were perceived differently for men than they were women. The few high level women I knew in public accounting were very careful not to ever take time off for family issues; all had nannies (usually more than one since you couldn't get one nanny to work the same hours the professional women did) and in the rare case where they had to be away for an hour or two, the men made small but significant disparaging comments about how the woman was gone doing "mommy" things and implied that she wasn't getting her work done. At the same time, if one of the men made arrangements to leave a few hours early to watch a child's soccer game, he was idolized as a wonderful father.
So it was very obvious that simple time off, or workload being managed/not managed wasn't the issue. There was judgment attached about why the person was gone and worse yet, the exact same reason for being gone was OK for one sex but not OK for the other.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 29, 2016 11:11:07 GMT -5
I'm not sure why me stating my experience is discriminatory. I can't think of one man in my 17 years of public accounting that took paternity leave or asked for a reduced schedule when his wife had a child. They usually took a few days off but depending on the time of year, it might have only been the day of the birth. That obviously wasn't the case with women. They jumped right back into long hours and traveling. Again, not the norm with women. While there were a few women who had children and then resumed the long hours and travel, the majority of us didn't.
I do understand how my statement of not wanting to hire someone that could go out on maternity leave could be discriminatory, I have no idea how me writing my experience is also construed as discriminatory. Are you going to tell me that the years you spent in public that the men took as much time off as the women? That men asked not to travel or asked for reduced schedules in the same percentage as women? Because I didn't see it
Describing your experience is not discriminatory.
Stating your experience as a truth or making a statement that implies that one thing is true for all people of a certain type (like your statements that I quoted in my post) is biased and your actions not to hire people based on the assumption that all people of a certain type were likely to do a certain thing is discriminatory.
My experience in public accounting was similar to yours regarding the issue of maternity/paternity leave. Women took more time off for maternity leave than men. But of the people who took large amounts of time off for health issues, many more were men than women. I knew several men who took several months off for heart issues, cancer or injuries but I didn't know a single woman who took significant time off for any of those issues (the few women that had a health issue just quit instead.)
Additionally, the same actions were perceived differently for men than they were women. The few high level women I knew in public accounting were very careful not to ever take time off for family issues; all had nannies (usually more than one since you couldn't get one nanny to work the same hours the professional women did) and in the rare case where they had to be away for an hour or two, the men made small but significant disparaging comments about how the woman was gone doing "mommy" things. At the same time, if one of the men made arrangements to leave a few hours early to watch a child's soccer game, he was idolized as a wonderful father.
So it was very obvious that simple time off, or workload being managed/not managed wasn't the issue. There was judgment attached about why the person was gone and worse yet, the exact same reason for being gone was OK for one sex but not OK for the other.
"In my reality, women take the leave and the men continue to be workaholics. That might change at some point in the future but for now, the culture locally is that men work and women take leave. "
Those are my exact words...I am not stating anything as fact or a broad stroke. I have been out of public for about 4.5 years now. I literally just emailed a friend that is still there and asked if anything has change. Nope, women still take maternity leave and are much more likely to voluntarily be "mommy tracked" and she has yet to know of a man that has taken paternity leave. One guy (with no kids) has asked to go on reduced hours. He is close to retirement and is phasing out his clients and is easing into retirement. He could have retired but is going this route which benefits both his clients and him.
So again I say, in my area paternity leave is not common at all. In my area, men return full gusto to public accounting within days of their wives having babies. That isn't discriminatory...that isn't a broad stroke. It is a statement of what is going on in my area and in the firm that I left (which is not some rinkadink little firm).
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 29, 2016 11:14:58 GMT -5
As for men getting a pass when they take extended time off....I've told this story over the years. There was one guy at my firm who went out on sick leave. He had a major liver issue and wound up needing a transplant. He exceeded his 12 weeks FMLA leave but everyone donated PTO time to him. . Given the fact that the underlying issue was an autoimmune issue he was at higher risk of this happening again.
It took about 11 months before he was released to come back to work. Guess what? The firm told him that they had no room for him and then hired another manager a week later. My firm decided that it wasn't worth having an employee that would be out for an extended period of time...or else they decided that he was too expensive (we were self-insured). Either way, he wasn't treated with kid gloves because he was a male. He couldn't be counted on because of health reasons (that was obviously never stated as they would get sued) and he was replaced...with a female manager!
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Mar 29, 2016 11:27:39 GMT -5
Describing your experience is not discriminatory.
Stating your experience as a truth or making a statement that implies that one thing is true for all people of a certain type (like your statements that I quoted in my post) is biased and your actions not to hire people based on the assumption that all people of a certain type were likely to do a certain thing is discriminatory.
My experience in public accounting was similar to yours regarding the issue of maternity/paternity leave. Women took more time off for maternity leave than men. But of the people who took large amounts of time off for health issues, many more were men than women. I knew several men who took several months off for heart issues, cancer or injuries but I didn't know a single woman who took significant time off for any of those issues (the few women that had a health issue just quit instead.)
Additionally, the same actions were perceived differently for men than they were women. The few high level women I knew in public accounting were very careful not to ever take time off for family issues; all had nannies (usually more than one since you couldn't get one nanny to work the same hours the professional women did) and in the rare case where they had to be away for an hour or two, the men made small but significant disparaging comments about how the woman was gone doing "mommy" things. At the same time, if one of the men made arrangements to leave a few hours early to watch a child's soccer game, he was idolized as a wonderful father.
So it was very obvious that simple time off, or workload being managed/not managed wasn't the issue. There was judgment attached about why the person was gone and worse yet, the exact same reason for being gone was OK for one sex but not OK for the other.
"In my reality, women take the leave and the men continue to be workaholics. That might change at some point in the future but for now, the culture locally is that men work and women take leave. "
Those are my exact words...I am not stating anything as fact or a broad stroke.
You must be channeling Bill Clinton when asked if he was lying about his characterization of his relationship with Monica Lewinsky; it depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is.
Your words are a statement of how things "are" and you are making those statements implying they are factual and apply to all women. The only qualifier is that these are women in your area.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 29, 2016 11:28:53 GMT -5
"In my reality, women take the leave and the men continue to be workaholics. That might change at some point in the future but for now, the culture locally is that men work and women take leave. "
Those are my exact words...I am not stating anything as fact or a broad stroke.
You must be channeling Bill Clinton when asked if he was lying about his characterization of his relationship with Monica Lewinsky; it depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is.
Your words are a statement of how things "are" and you are making those statements implying they are factual and apply to all women. The only qualifier is that these are women in your area.
And yet you agreed that your experience in public accounting was the same as it relates to maternity/paternity leave...but somehow my experience is discriminatory and yours wasn't...ok
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 29, 2016 11:33:00 GMT -5
On that note, I'm tired of this thread. We can go back and forth all day and there is no point to it.
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Mar 29, 2016 11:46:35 GMT -5
You must be channeling Bill Clinton when asked if he was lying about his characterization of his relationship with Monica Lewinsky; it depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is.
Your words are a statement of how things "are" and you are making those statements implying they are factual and apply to all women. The only qualifier is that these are women in your area.
And yet you agreed that your experience in public accounting was the same as it relates to maternity/paternity leave...but somehow my experience is discriminatory and yours wasn't...ok Not biased or discriminatory: - Describing an experience - Giving examples of an experience
Biased and discriminatory: - Assuming all people of Type ___ will do ____. (Even if that has been your experience and you can list 100 examples.) - Making hiring decisions to not hire people of Type ___ based on your experience that all people of Type ____ will do _____.
It's not an issue to describe what you see as long as you describe it as your experience and it's related to that specific instance. It becomes a problem when you make global (or even statements about all people in your particular area) statements that imply your experience is a statement of fact and the way things are. It becomes discrimination when you don't hire people of a certain type based on what you've seen other people of that type do.
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Mar 29, 2016 11:47:39 GMT -5
On that note, I'm tired of this thread. We can go back and forth all day and there is no point to it. There may be no point to you. You're not interested in understanding how and why you are biased.
But there may be a point to others that are reading and who might in the future change how they act based on a greater understanding of how unconscious bias works.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 29, 2016 12:17:03 GMT -5
On that note, I'm tired of this thread. We can go back and forth all day and there is no point to it. There may be no point to you. You're not interested in understanding how and why you are biased.
But there may be a point to others that are reading and who might in the future change how they act based on a greater understanding of how unconscious bias works.
I know why I'm biased...because in 4 years I've had to pick up the slack for 2 women on maternity leave. If you can change the fact that I have to pick up work from others when they go on maternity then I can assure you that my bias will go away. You want me to change how I react to taking on extra work but not address how to solve the underlying issue of picking up someone else's workload.
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Mar 29, 2016 13:03:24 GMT -5
There may be no point to you. You're not interested in understanding how and why you are biased.
But there may be a point to others that are reading and who might in the future change how they act based on a greater understanding of how unconscious bias works.
I know why I'm biased...because in 4 years I've had to pick up the slack for 2 women on maternity leave. If you can change the fact that I have to pick up work from others when they go on maternity then I can assure you that my bias will go away. You want me to change how I react to taking on extra work but not address how to solve the underlying issue of picking up someone else's workload. Again, I understand why you feel that way. And I understand and agree that statistically, the result you're predicting and using discrimination to guard against is likely to occur in the future.
Where we disagree is in the idea that's it's OK to apply your past experience to future people who you haven't even met and who may or may not cause the same issues.
|
|
quince
Senior Member
Joined: Sept 23, 2011 17:51:12 GMT -5
Posts: 2,699
|
Post by quince on Mar 29, 2016 13:15:58 GMT -5
My husband isn't taking the full allocation of FMLA time available to him when our son is born in a month. The reason for this is that our existing son is autistic and has many, many appointments, and him keeping flexibility for that takes priority. Otherwise I would push the issue and insist he take at least 2 months. (He could even get STD pay for some of that. Yay California!) I think it is important for men to take time off for parental leave, both because both parents should be interested in their offspring, and because everyone taking time off will help to level the bias.
His workplace is FANTASTIC, though. His CEO said to be as gone as long as he needs. She also asked if we need someone to make grocery runs and such for us. Very supportive. Considering that they are a start up and run very lean, I was pleasantly surprised.
|
|
siralynn
Familiar Member
Joined: Jan 8, 2013 10:33:16 GMT -5
Posts: 528
|
Post by siralynn on Mar 29, 2016 13:40:41 GMT -5
I think it is important for men to take time off for parental leave, both because both parents should be interested in their offspring, and because everyone taking time off will help to level the bias. Couldn't agree more. I was very pleasantly surprised when my husband (by his own decision) took a four-month leave of absence when our daughter was born. Part of it was his job and the timing - he's a professor, and using his 6 weeks of paternity leave left him coming back in the middle of a semester, which didn't make sense, so he took unpaid leave for the rest. So I was off the job for about four months, then he was off the job for about four months, and we didn't put baby into daycare until she was ~7.5 months old (and could crawl, etc.) He did exactly the same thing when our son was born two years later, because the timing happened to work out almost identically. (Kids' birthdays are 9 days apart.) I think taking leave was the best thing he ever did for 1) his confidence in being a caretaker and 2) our excellent split of household duties. He has stepped up far and away above what I ever could have expected based on the first seven child-free years of our marriage. Obviously it's not making an impact in all locations/industries yet, but I'm seeing more and more men take paternity leave, and I think families will be much better for it.
|
|
ArchietheDragon
Junior Associate
Joined: Jul 7, 2014 14:29:23 GMT -5
Posts: 6,380
|
Post by ArchietheDragon on Mar 29, 2016 13:43:27 GMT -5
I wouldn't know what do to if I was home more than a few days after my kid was born. I mean just sit there are stare and the kid and my wife?
|
|
siralynn
Familiar Member
Joined: Jan 8, 2013 10:33:16 GMT -5
Posts: 528
|
Post by siralynn on Mar 29, 2016 13:54:15 GMT -5
I wouldn't know what do to if I was home more than a few days after my kid was born. I mean just sit there are stare and the kid and my wife? Most of the men I know who are taking leave stagger it with their wife. So they're providing full-time care for the kid once the wife goes back to work. In stay-at-home spouse situations, obviously paternity leave might not be as important other than your own desire to bond with your kid. Though for what's it worth, c-section mamas need assistance for at least a couple of weeks after delivery, since they can't drive and can't physically lift older children (if they have them, or the new infant in the car seat). Not everyone has family who can cover, so it's very helpful for the spouse to have leave available.
|
|
giramomma
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Feb 3, 2011 11:25:27 GMT -5
Posts: 22,158
|
Post by giramomma on Mar 29, 2016 14:31:48 GMT -5
I wouldn't know what do to if I was home more than a few days after my kid was born. I mean just sit there are stare and the kid and my wife? DH was a SAHD when #1 was born. We watched a lot of Sopranos for the first two months of DS's life. When DS started "waking up" we stopped, we were afraid what his first words might be. We also slept. God, I slept. My milk never came in, so we formula fed. Actually, for all three of our kids, DH and I were interchangeable. And who stays at home all the time with a baby, anyway? I actually kinda miss not being able to take maternity leaves now. It was the only thing that really forced me to slow down. My favorite leave was with DD1. DS did his own thing. He wasn't needy. He wasn't mired in school crap and activity crap. When he was in preschool, I could just sit and be with DD1. I could really use a nice 3-4 month break again. I suspect, though if I asked for it, I wouldn't have a job. One week vacations...that's child's play.
|
|
ArchietheDragon
Junior Associate
Joined: Jul 7, 2014 14:29:23 GMT -5
Posts: 6,380
|
Post by ArchietheDragon on Mar 29, 2016 14:33:06 GMT -5
I wouldn't know what do to if I was home more than a few days after my kid was born. I mean just sit there are stare and the kid and my wife? DH was a SAHD when #1 was born. We watched a lot of Sopranos for the first two months of DS's life. And society is much better off because of it.
|
|
quince
Senior Member
Joined: Sept 23, 2011 17:51:12 GMT -5
Posts: 2,699
|
Post by quince on Mar 29, 2016 14:43:31 GMT -5
I had a surprise C section with the first- my husband was awesome and took care of me and the kid. Made sure I was fed, watered, and medicated, took shifts minding the kid to let me sleep (kid would not stand for being put down, and did not sleep the promised amount of time for newborns. ) He didn't even have time off because he worked part time and was doing PhD work the rest of the time. My mom coming for a week at a moment's notice was a massive rescue for our sleep deprived butts. C section in the works for this time round, and my mom is planning on helping again (Thanks mom!), I have a friend coming to stay for a month or a bit more(!), so my husband and I will have a lot of help. I am so glad to have people other than my husband on our team, because I want my older son to not be too deprived of attention, especially when I can't carry him or let him climb on me for a few weeks post surgery. There is PLENTY for non-mom type humans to do with a newborn in the house. My husband and I both agree that newborns are boring, but our first one was work-intensive, so we are both relieved to have help. Babies are not our cup of tea, but they still need us despite being no fun. Even better, my mom and friend like babies.
|
|
MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 11,049
|
Post by MJ2.0 on Mar 29, 2016 15:21:47 GMT -5
I wouldn't know what do to if I was home more than a few days after my kid was born. I mean just sit there are stare and the kid and my wife? Come on, Arch. Don't do that.
|
|
ArchietheDragon
Junior Associate
Joined: Jul 7, 2014 14:29:23 GMT -5
Posts: 6,380
|
Post by ArchietheDragon on Mar 29, 2016 15:23:22 GMT -5
I wouldn't know what do to if I was home more than a few days after my kid was born. I mean just sit there are stare and the kid and my wife? Come on, Arch. Don't do that. Two adults and a baby. It is not as interesting as a 30 minute sitcom would have you believe.
|
|
MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 11,049
|
Post by MJ2.0 on Mar 29, 2016 16:08:57 GMT -5
Or you could have taken your leave when she went back to work. X did that.
|
|
ArchietheDragon
Junior Associate
Joined: Jul 7, 2014 14:29:23 GMT -5
Posts: 6,380
|
Post by ArchietheDragon on Mar 29, 2016 16:13:53 GMT -5
Or you could have taken your leave when she went back to work. X did that. I guess. She took off about a year with each though
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 30, 2016 4:42:23 GMT -5
I wouldn't know what do to if I was home more than a few days after my kid was born. I mean just sit there are stare and the kid and my wife? lol!
|
|
yogiii
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 19:38:00 GMT -5
Posts: 5,377
|
Post by yogiii on Mar 30, 2016 7:47:18 GMT -5
My first cried 18 hours a day and would only sleep a half hour at a time for the first 6 months. I needed DH there the first couple of weeks so I didn't actually go insane.
We both still occasionally hear phantom cries and he's almost 6. The colic cry is very distinct. I've heard it before in restaurants and while out shopping. It pretty much makes me want to instantly gag.
|
|
milee
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -5
Posts: 12,344
|
Post by milee on Mar 30, 2016 9:39:20 GMT -5
My first cried 18 hours a day and would only sleep a half hour at a time for the first 6 months. I needed DH there the first couple of weeks so I didn't actually go insane.
We both still occasionally hear phantom cries and he's almost 6. The colic cry is very distinct. I've heard it before in restaurants and while out shopping. It pretty much makes me want to instantly gag. I liked your post because I totally understand how hard that is. It was a supportive like, not a "like that experience" like.
Mine didn't really sleep through the night until he was 3 or so. And yes, by then even the bags under my eyes had bags. I was so tired, there were times I'd find myself sitting somewhere and have no idea how I got there or what I was doing.
It's amazing we let those little boogers live!
|
|
yogiii
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 19:38:00 GMT -5
Posts: 5,377
|
Post by yogiii on Mar 30, 2016 9:50:03 GMT -5
Oh yeah, I still wake up multiple times a night. I guess this is my life now.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 30, 2016 9:54:33 GMT -5
My first cried 18 hours a day and would only sleep a half hour at a time for the first 6 months. I needed DH there the first couple of weeks so I didn't actually go insane.
We both still occasionally hear phantom cries and he's almost 6. The colic cry is very distinct. I've heard it before in restaurants and while out shopping. It pretty much makes me want to instantly gag. Mine was awful as an infant, too. She had major colic that started right around week 2. My ex took one week vacation to be home with us and then went back to work. he traveled so by the time he got home Friday after a week away I would just hand him the baby and go cry!lol She is 17 now...and honestly, I miss the days of her being an infant.
|
|
yogiii
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 19:38:00 GMT -5
Posts: 5,377
|
Post by yogiii on Mar 30, 2016 9:56:16 GMT -5
My first cried 18 hours a day and would only sleep a half hour at a time for the first 6 months. I needed DH there the first couple of weeks so I didn't actually go insane.
We both still occasionally hear phantom cries and he's almost 6. The colic cry is very distinct. I've heard it before in restaurants and while out shopping. It pretty much makes me want to instantly gag. Mine was awful as an infant, too. She had major colic that started right around week 2. My ex took one week vacation to be home with us and then went back to work. he traveled so by the time he got home Friday after a week away I would just hand him the baby and go cry!lol She is 17 now...and honestly, I miss the days of her being an infant. LOL
Well he talks non-stop, so the noise level is similar it's just the sounds coming out are more pleasant most of the time.
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 30, 2016 9:58:14 GMT -5
Mine was awful as an infant, too. She had major colic that started right around week 2. My ex took one week vacation to be home with us and then went back to work. he traveled so by the time he got home Friday after a week away I would just hand him the baby and go cry!lol She is 17 now...and honestly, I miss the days of her being an infant. LOL
Well he talks non-stop, so the noise level is similar it's just the sounds coming out are more pleasant most of the time.
lol! We went through that phase, too. I swear to you, my daughter would actually talk to herself when she had no one else to talk to!
|
|
973beachbum
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:13 GMT -5
Posts: 10,501
|
Post by 973beachbum on Mar 30, 2016 11:01:16 GMT -5
I am at the point where I hate white males. Not hate but don't want to have another one hired. We finally got everyone back to work and the lead engineer tells us he probably need to get open heart surgery. He said he will be out for at least six months. The other white males have all been out for at least that for medical reason also. It is almost comical except for the medical problems and incredible holes left when people go out on disability for six months at a times. They are not talking about how to replace him for that time. No one else can replace him totally and sure as heck not for six months. In the past few years we have had workers go out on disability for a broken hip, heart attacks, cancer, chrones disease, and a lung disease I can't remember the name of. Now when they talk about hiring someone I hear a weird version of the inscription on the Statue of Liberty. "Give me your heart disease victims, your poor huddled cancer sufferers. Send your future long term disabled to our door." PS there was one woman who had a kid and was out for 6 weeks total leave and pt for another 4. That was by far the easiest to cover for!
|
|
Miss Tequila
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 10:13:45 GMT -5
Posts: 20,602
|
Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 30, 2016 13:35:41 GMT -5
I am at the point where I hate white males. Not hate but don't want to have another one hired. We finally got everyone back to work and the lead engineer tells us he probably need to get open heart surgery. He said he will be out for at least six months. The other white males have all been out for at least that for medical reason also. It is almost comical except for the medical problems and incredible holes left when people go out on disability for six months at a times. They are not talking about how to replace him for that time. No one else can replace him totally and sure as heck not for six months. In the past few years we have had workers go out on disability for a broken hip, heart attacks, cancer, chrones disease, and a lung disease I can't remember the name of. Now when they talk about hiring someone I hear a weird version of the inscription on the Statue of Liberty. "Give me your heart disease victims, your poor huddled cancer sufferers. Send your future long term disabled to our door." PS there was one woman who had a kid and was out for 6 weeks total leave and pt for another 4. That was by far the easiest to cover for! Geez, what are you putting in the water down there?? I have never experienced that kind of illness pattern.
I'm trying to think of long-term illnesses over my professional years and I can only think of two. The young guy that had some autoimmune disorder that killed his liver and he was out for a year (they essentially terminated him once he was cleared to return). right when I started at this company there was a woman out for breast cancer. She died. I can't think of anyone else out for extended periods of time.
|
|