Maturity and School Groupings

[billisonboard]

Postings from two threads:

Mar 23, 2016 8:55:45 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

...

We talk constantly on this board about red shirting preschool/kindergarten age kids because they "aren't mature enough" and the decision to do so is often applauded.  

Yet we're perfectly fine with throwing 12-14 year olds together for two years without a thought.   Where is talk about the emotional differences between a 12 year old vs a 14 year old?
...

Mar 23, 2016 3:42:11 GMT -5 finnime said:

Mar 22, 2016 9:36:15 GMT -5 Ombud said:

zibazinski -- good to know. So you don't need the HS to sign anything? I'll have GS2 leave HS & just go to college instead then! Problem solved. THANK YOU!!

Ombud , my DD did no high school at all; just HS-level classes in middle school (she completed math through Algebra II). She then enrolled full time in community college, took two years of classes, and transferred to the 4-year university as a junior. It worked for her.

ETA: She did take the level placement exams at the community college before she was enrolled, with no problem at all.

I found it interesting the idea that having 12 year olds with 14 year olds could be an issue while 15/16/17  year olds with adults seems like a good idea.

[MJ2.0]

I have learned a few things in my 33 years of living:

1. People mostly want to get through life unscathed.
2. People generally want to be accepted by others.
3. It can take a person a long time - well into adulthood - before they know themselves well.

These reasons (plus hormones) are why any grouping of young adults will have hierarchy/bullying/etc. issues. It happened within the same grades at my schools, so not sure how segregating more by grade would help.

[Deleted]

The issue isn't with putting 12-14 yr odds together. In fact I'd be better if 12-18 yr old were with adults. The issue is separating out 11-15 year olds as a group that should socialize each other. Ie that 13,14,15 year olds should be mentors or idols or the ruling peer group or anything for 11,12,13 year olds..

12+ year old is identity building. You don't want identity built from 15 year olds and younger all day with a steady stream of media in the off hours. I love kids, all ages, but you don't really want 13-15 yr olds in general to be the model, or to give them any more of an impression that the know it all and should act that way.

I'm not saying this well right now, but that's basically it.

[MJ2.0]

My middle school was grades 5-8. I remember looking up to some of the 8th graders because they were good at things I admired - music, academics, etc. And the ones I looked up to were nice, or at least not mean it bullies. I don't think I'm super smart or special in that - not was my school district that good. It's all dependent on the child and I don't think you can make sweeping generalizations about upperclassmen trying to "rule" the underclassmen. There were dick 8th graders and dick underclassmen. There were also pretty decent upperclassmen and underclassmen.

[billisonboard]

Okay. Now: 16 year olds with 19 year old community college students?

[MJ2.0]

Mar 23, 2016 10:33:18 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Okay. Now: 16 year olds with 19 year old community college students?

Not generally, no. If the 16 year olds are smart and taking some classes for college credits, okay.

[happyhoix]

Mar 23, 2016 10:33:18 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Okay. Now: 16 year olds with 19 year old community college students?

I don't think it's good. No 19 year old would want to socialize with a 16 year old. Very lonely for the 16 year old.

DS was 'advanced' and he could have done some college courses when in HS. He could have started kindergarten a year earlier than he did. Our pediatrician convinced us that, although he would get more intellectual stimulation in the advanced classes, the social problems of being the youngest male in the group are enormous. He said he was fast forwarded through HS and never got to play on the basketball team, didn't have a normal dating experience, always felt awkward and an outsider. So we let DS wait and used extra stuff at home, as well as gifted and AP classes at school to keep him engaged.

He ended up having a great social life, dated since he was a freshman, is now a very well adjusted, married industrial engineer. So I worked well for him.

[swamp]

Mar 23, 2016 10:26:44 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

My middle school was grades 5-8. I remember looking up to some of the 8th graders because they were good at things I admired - music, academics, etc. And the ones I looked up to were nice, or at least not mean it bullies. I don't think I'm super smart or special in that - not was my school district that good. It's all dependent on the child and I don't think you can make sweeping generalizations about upperclassmen trying to "rule" the underclassmen. There were dick 8th graders and dick underclassmen. There were also pretty decent upperclassmen and underclassmen.

My school didn't have middle school. You went out to the HS for 7th grade. The 7th and 8th graders generally did not mix, but you had to go into the HS wing to go to gym, the nurses office, and the cafeteria.

I NEVER had a problem with the older kids. It was the bitches in my own class.   

I also mixed with the older kids in on the swim team and track teams since there was no JV/Varsity division.   7th grade had Modified teams, but from 8th grade on, you were Varsity.   The older girls were wonderful to the younger ones.   

[Miss Tequila]

Mar 23, 2016 11:12:49 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Mar 23, 2016 10:33:18 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Okay. Now: 16 year olds with 19 year old community college students?

I don't think it's good. No 19 year old would want to socialize with a 16 year old. Very lonely for the 16 year old.

You're kidding, right?  I can assure you that plenty of 19 year old guys wanted to socialize with me when I was 16...and I struggle with the same thing with my daughter (and I want to strangle each and every one of them!lol).  Not sure if boys just mature later or what...but trust me, plenty of 19 year old guys want to hang out with 16 year old girls.  Probably not as true in reverse, though.

[Tiny]

Mar 23, 2016 11:12:49 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Mar 23, 2016 10:33:18 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Okay. Now: 16 year olds with 19 year old community college students?

I don't think it's good. No 19 year old would want to socialize with a 16 year old. Very lonely for the 16 year old.

DS was 'advanced' and he could have done some college courses when in HS. He could have started kindergarten a year earlier than he did. Our pediatrician convinced us that, although he would get more intellectual stimulation in the advanced classes, the social problems of being the youngest male in the group are enormous. He said he was fast forwarded through HS and never got to play on the basketball team, didn't have a normal dating experience, always felt awkward and an outsider. So we let DS wait and used extra stuff at home, as well as gifted and AP classes at school to keep him engaged.

He ended up having a great social life, dated since he was a freshman, is now a very well adjusted, married industrial engineer. So I worked well for him.

I dont' think that's true... odds are the 19+ year olds aren't going to realize how old the 16 yo really is - especially in a school setting.  unless of course someone TELLS them the 16 yo is 16 (or the 16yo is seen getting off the bus from the HS or is in a class that's known to have HS kids in it.)   a 16 yo out in the general College population might blend in really well.

If anything, I would be worried BECAUSE the 19+ year olds will be including the 16yo in whatever THEY are doing - going clubbing (on fake ids) or hanging out drinking/smoking or wanting to go away for the weekend with their significant other...which puts some pressure on the 16 yo if they want to continue hanging out with the 'older kids'. 

Of course, it totally depends on the group the younger kid(s) fall in with... not ALL 19+ yo's go bar hoping, drinking/drugging or go away for the weekend with their sweetie...    

That's the thing.  You really need to take each kid and situation on a one by one basis.  You can't make an assumption.

[MJ2.0]

Mar 23, 2016 11:52:33 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Mar 23, 2016 11:12:49 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I don't think it's good. No 19 year old would want to socialize with a 16 year old. Very lonely for the 16 year old.

You're kidding, right?  I can assure you that plenty of 19 year old guys wanted to socialize with me when I was 16...and I struggle with the same thing with my daughter (and I want to strangle each and every one of them!lol).  Not sure if boys just mature later or what...but trust me, plenty of 19 year old guys want to hang out with 16 year old girls.  Probably not as true in reverse, though.

Boys mature?

[Miss Tequila]

Mar 23, 2016 11:53:48 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Mar 23, 2016 11:12:49 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I don't think it's good. No 19 year old would want to socialize with a 16 year old. Very lonely for the 16 year old.

DS was 'advanced' and he could have done some college courses when in HS. He could have started kindergarten a year earlier than he did. Our pediatrician convinced us that, although he would get more intellectual stimulation in the advanced classes, the social problems of being the youngest male in the group are enormous. He said he was fast forwarded through HS and never got to play on the basketball team, didn't have a normal dating experience, always felt awkward and an outsider. So we let DS wait and used extra stuff at home, as well as gifted and AP classes at school to keep him engaged.

He ended up having a great social life, dated since he was a freshman, is now a very well adjusted, married industrial engineer. So I worked well for him.

I dont' think that's true... odds are the 19+ year olds aren't going to realize how old the 16 yo really is - especially in a school setting.  unless of course someone TELLS them the 16 yo is 16 (or the 16yo is seen getting off the bus from the HS or is in a class that's known to have HS kids in it.)   a 16 yo out in the general College population might blend in really well.

If anything, I would be worried BECAUSE the 19+ year olds will be including the 16yo in whatever THEY are doing - going clubbing (on fake ids) or hanging out drinking/smoking or wanting to go away for the weekend with their significant other...which puts some pressure on the 16 yo if they want to continue hanging out with the 'older kids'. 

Of course, it totally depends on the group the younger kid(s) fall in with... not ALL 19+ yo's go bar hoping, drinking/drugging or go away for the weekend with their sweetie...    

That's the thing.  You really need to take each kid and situation on a one by one basis.  You can't make an assumption.

Exactly!  When I was 16 I had plenty of guy friends that were 19-21...that was my main source of alcohol! 

[Miss Tequila]

Mar 23, 2016 11:55:56 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

Mar 23, 2016 11:52:33 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

You're kidding, right?  I can assure you that plenty of 19 year old guys wanted to socialize with me when I was 16...and I struggle with the same thing with my daughter (and I want to strangle each and every one of them!lol).  Not sure if boys just mature later or what...but trust me, plenty of 19 year old guys want to hang out with 16 year old girls.  Probably not as true in reverse, though.

Boys mature?

Probably right before they start sporting the Depends

[obelisk]

That's why boys prefer dating younger girls, so that they are at the same maturity level.

[happyhoix]

Mar 23, 2016 11:52:33 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Mar 23, 2016 11:12:49 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I don't think it's good. No 19 year old would want to socialize with a 16 year old. Very lonely for the 16 year old.

You're kidding, right?  I can assure you that plenty of 19 year old guys wanted to socialize with me when I was 16...and I struggle with the same thing with my daughter (and I want to strangle each and every one of them!lol).  Not sure if boys just mature later or what...but trust me, plenty of 19 year old guys want to hang out with 16 year old girls.  Probably not as true in reverse, though.

You're right, I should have clarified that my pediatrician was talking about my son, not about kids in general.

He said that, since boys tend to mature later than girls, promoting them ahead of schedule made them the youngest and usually less physically and mentally mature boys in the class, and they end up not being able to compete as well in sports, and they are more likely to act out (the way boys do to try to get attention from girls but they don't know how to do it in a mature way).  However, he said the difference isn't as noticeable with girls, since they mature faster and there isn't as much difference, physically, in a 16 year old girl and a 19 year old girl - not like between 16 and 19 year old boys.

He said he always asked teachers what kids they had the most trouble with, and almost all of them said it was the youngest boys in 6th and 8th grades that usually caused the most behavioral problems in the classroom, because at that age group, a year of difference in age seems to make a huge difference in maturity, for boys.

[alabamagal]

Maturity is overrated. Behavior is what is important. My boys were both the youngest in their classes. One had a late birthday and the other started school early. One was immature for his age and the other was very mature emotionally. They both survived and did well in school. The only time that they felt out of place was when their friends got their driver licenses and they had to wait. Not a huge deal.

I was amused last week when my youngest, who started school early, liked an article on Facebook saying red shirting can lead to regrets.

The only time I felt bad for my middle son was when he was on the 13-14 year old baseball team ( by birthday not grade) and he didn't turn 13 until late in the season. DS was 5' and 95 lbs and there were some full grown men (14) on his team. My son was just a late growers. 3 years later when he was 6'2 and playing basketball against them he didn't even recognize them because he was the tall one now.

[Deleted]

Our district tried a ninth grade school for awhile.  Ninth grade is a pivotal year.  If they make it through ninth grade without having to repeat, they are likely to make it to graduation.  So they thought segregating them away from the upperclassmen would allow them another year to mature before being exposed to the juniors and seniors.

It turned out to be a big mistake.  They just got to be eighth graders two years in a row.  Then they entered tenth grade as immature as the previous ninth grade classes were.  It seriously affected achievement.

After a few years, they brought the ninth graders back.

I went to "elementary" school back in the olden days.  It was 1-8 and 9-12.  But the lower grades were self-contained until sixth grade so there was zero interaction with the upper grades.  It just wasn't a problem.

Somehow things were less complicated back then . . . not better, but less complicated.

[alabamagal]

Mar 23, 2016 14:09:56 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

Somehow things were less complicated back then . . . not better, but less complicated.

And we walked miles to school....uphill...both ways!  Actually I went to school in Miami walked 1/2 mile to school starting in Kindergarten and had to cross busy streets.  My mom made me go with an older kid for safety (he was in 1st grade!).  There were no hills and no snow.

But seriously, we just started school when we were supposed to.  No one worried about maturity or the horrors of middle school.  You just survived.

I remember being teased in middle school for being too tall and too skinny.  I am still tall, and right now I would LOVE for someone to joke about me being too skinny.  That's not going to happen.

I read so much now about parents being so pressured about how their kids are doing in school.  That is all self inflicted.  Sometimes I think the old days were a lot better.

[muttleynfelix]

"
I read so much now about parents being so pressured about how their kids are doing in school. That is all self inflicted."

Eh - I think it depends. We are in a really good school district and in probably the best elementary school (although the worst elementary school in the district is probably better than 90% of the schools in this country). However, last year's test score in a certain category was significantly lower than the score it was compared to. This gave the school some designation. The district appealed the designation because the school had added 200 new students in that category and the test was not testing the same student. The state denied the appeal.

My point is that with all the testing, there is a lot of pressure for kids to do well. Not just because the parents want them to, but because teachers and administrators are really needing them to do well.

[raeoflyte]

Mar 23, 2016 15:16:45 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

Mar 23, 2016 14:09:56 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

Somehow things were less complicated back then . . . not better, but less complicated.

And we walked miles to school....uphill...both ways!  Actually I went to school in Miami walked 1/2 mile to school starting in Kindergarten and had to cross busy streets.  My mom made me go with an older kid for safety (he was in 1st grade!).  There were no hills and no snow.

But seriously, we just started school when we were supposed to.  No one worried about maturity or the horrors of middle school.  You just survived.

I remember being teased in middle school for being too tall and too skinny.  I am still tall, and right now I would LOVE for someone to joke about me being too skinny.  That's not going to happen.

I read so much now about parents being so pressured about how their kids are doing in school.  That is all self inflicted.  Sometimes I think the old days were a lot better.

My mother would disagree. Yes, kids started school when they were supposed to, and the only option was to suck it up and deal. That doesn't mean it worked well, or that we should go back to not having options.

[Deleted]

Mar 23, 2016 16:37:57 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Mar 23, 2016 15:16:45 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

And we walked miles to school....uphill...both ways!  Actually I went to school in Miami walked 1/2 mile to school starting in Kindergarten and had to cross busy streets.  My mom made me go with an older kid for safety (he was in 1st grade!).  There were no hills and no snow.

But seriously, we just started school when we were supposed to.  No one worried about maturity or the horrors of middle school.  You just survived.

I remember being teased in middle school for being too tall and too skinny.  I am still tall, and right now I would LOVE for someone to joke about me being too skinny.  That's not going to happen.

I read so much now about parents being so pressured about how their kids are doing in school.  That is all self inflicted.  Sometimes I think the old days were a lot better.

My mother would disagree. Yes, kids started school when they were supposed to, and the only option was to suck it up and deal. That doesn't mean it worked well, or that we should go back to not having options.

Your state may be different.  Alabama has always said students must start school by the time they are seven.  So parents always had the option to wait.  The difference was that the school system didn't provide up to two years of taxpayer-funded kindergarten in the interim.  

They didn't even provide one.  My daughter started kindergarten in, I would guess 1982.  There were limited kindergarten classes in schools even then.  They held a lottery to see who would attend the one class.  The parents of the non-selected could enroll their kids in private kindergarten.  My daughter went to the one at the Methodist church.

But this was back when kindergarten was kindergarten.  Now it is the new first grade.  

[raeoflyte]

Mar 23, 2016 17:04:46 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

Mar 23, 2016 16:37:57 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

My mother would disagree. Yes, kids started school when they were supposed to, and the only option was to suck it up and deal. That doesn't mean it worked well, or that we should go back to not having options.

Your state may be different.  Alabama has always said students must start school by the time they are seven.  So parents always had the option to wait.  The difference was that the school system didn't provide up to two years of taxpayer-funded kindergarten in the interim.  

They didn't even provide one.  My daughter started kindergarten in, I would guess 1982.  There were limited kindergarten classes in schools even then.  They held a lottery to see who would attend the one class.  The parents of the non-selected could enroll their kids in private kindergarten.  My daughter went to the one at the Methodist church.

But this was back when kindergarten was kindergarten.  Now it is the new first grade.  

Our state wouldn't let her delay kindergarten for a year back then.

And don't even get me started on what we expect from kindergartners now. I'm grateful ds is doing well and likes school.

[teen persuasion]

First, can I say: EVERY KID IS DIFFERENT!  Some are more mature, some less, some different.  There is no one size fits all.

Now that that is off my chest, I think how kids get along with other kids of similar vs different ages can depend on how often they are put in mixed age groupings vs always in a single age/grade cohort.

I'm in a rural area, somewhat separated from the larger metro area to the south, and everyone seems to know everyone here (unlike the burbs or city where you can hide in plain sight).  Small school district, so lots of mixing of grades (MS and HS are on buses together, multi-grade music ensembles, etc.).  A few years ago they cut modified sports for the Jr High age group.  If they want to do sports at all, they have to pass selective classification, and then join the varsity HS team.  DS4 was tagging along to his brother's captain's practices for years, and he was the first group affected.  He passed the selective classification, and was running varsity (top 7, not seniority) while in MS.  Now he's a senior.  

He was commenting the other day about the span of ages of kids he knows/considers friends; he viewed it as a chain - he had teammates that were up to 5 or so years older, and now he's the senior that is friends with the MS teammates.  This linking is strengthened when he also is in band and orchestra with them for years, and then extra stuff like pit/musical, all county performances and other band/string competitions, robotics and rocket clubs.  There is a lot of continuity and fluidity in the music ensembles; they play together for years in one school, and then move up to the next school meeting older students, but the younger ones move right back up behind them over the years.  However, outside groups define ES/MS/HS differently than our district does, so kids swap around.  Ninth graders might be included in the MS ensemble for all county, for example.

Our district is now ES: pre-k - 4, MS: 5 - 8, HS: 9 - 12.  Previously there were 2 ES that were k - 6, and a combined Jr/Sr HS.  My oldest is the only one who attended the HS at grade 7, all the others got shuffled in the reconfiguration.  I remember 6th grade moving up days - I was always amazed at how mature some of the 6th grade girls looked (they could have been 25!) compared to the others in the ES then.  Most of the boys looked young until at least grade 10, but there were always a few outliers with full beards or 6'+ in 6th grade.

 At least locally, our school's kids seem to mix with different age people just fine, because it's normal to them.  Yesterday at the library a graduate from 3 years ago was catching up with one of the HS boys.  NBD.

[alabamagal]

My kids went to a small private school (40 kids per grade) so a lot like teen persuasion describes.  My kids had interactions with kids off all ages.  There school had a lower campus K-5 and upper campus 6-12, but is in process of combining to one campus.  None of my kids ever dated in middle or high school, they were probably a bit immature, but it was also the environment where everyone had known everyone forever and it was a very small group of kids.  I don't think this lack of social dating ever hurt them, all 3 of them started dating immediately upon going away to college (1 met his gf at orientation!).  Tow of them are now engaged at 23 and 25.

I have made many posts against red-shirting for social and maturity reasons.  Everyone thinks that their kids will do better if they are the oldest.  Since both my boys were the youngest in their class I had a quite different experience.  Both of my kids were involved in sports and most of them were grouped by age not grade, so it was pretty easy to pick out the kids who were red-shirted.  Also my youngest (mid-Sept birthday who started school early) was in a group for little league baseball where he was the oldest.  So when he was 8 and in the 7 and 8 year old grouping, he was one of the very few 3rd graders along with mostly 2nd and 1st graders (there were a few other late summer birthdays who did not redshirt).  His attitude was "this is my age group (baseball team) and I am more advanced than them."  Also I remember one time with my other son and I was driving him to summer football practice the summer he was 14 about to turn 15.  I see 2 of his classmates driving themselves to practice (obviously red-shirted as my son couldn't even get his learner's permit).  My son says "Well they are older than me and in the same grade" and it was not a compliment.  My boys didn't like being the last to get their driver license, but other than that being the youngest gave them confidence because they were in the same grade (and doing quite well) as the older kids.

[yogiii]

Mar 24, 2016 8:44:20 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

My son says "Well they are older than me and in the same grade" and it was not a compliment. 

That is the way it was when I was in school too. If someone was old for the grade, you assumed they "stayed back" and it was not a good thing. I don't think that perception exists now. 

[happyhoix]

Mar 24, 2016 8:52:12 GMT -5 yogiii said:

Mar 24, 2016 8:44:20 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

My son says "Well they are older than me and in the same grade" and it was not a compliment. 

That is the way it was when I was in school too. If someone was old for the grade, you assumed they "stayed back" and it was not a good thing. I don't think that perception exists now. 

When I was a kid, back in the dark ages, parents pushed their kids to skip a grade, because that was kind of a status symbol, to have such a smart kid. Then when DH was in kindergarden, it started becoming the hip thing to do to let your kid, especially a boy, wait a year if they were close to the age cut off (DS's B day is August 11th). My pediatrician was a huge advocate of this, mostly because he was skipped ahead a year when he was a kid and he felt like kept him from participating in sports as much as he wanted to (he wanted to play basketball but was always too short, then grew a foot between HS and college).

DS is 28 now and I don't know what the current 'fad' is, but really, it should depend on the kid. DS was a very introverted and shy child and I think he benefited a lot socially by waiting another year to start school, but I could see how a more outgoing kid might not benefit as much.

[alabamagal]

Mar 24, 2016 9:41:59 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Mar 24, 2016 8:52:12 GMT -5 yogiii said:

That is the way it was when I was in school too. If someone was old for the grade, you assumed they "stayed back" and it was not a good thing. I don't think that perception exists now. 

When I was a kid, back in the dark ages, parents pushed their kids to skip a grade, because that was kind of a status symbol, to have such a smart kid. Then when DH was in kindergarden, it started becoming the hip thing to do to let your kid, especially a boy, wait a year if they were close to the age cut off (DS's B day is August 11th). My pediatrician was a huge advocate of this, mostly because he was skipped ahead a year when he was a kid and he felt like kept him from participating in sports as much as he wanted to (he wanted to play basketball but was always too short, then grew a foot between HS and college).

DS is 28 now and I don't know what the current 'fad' is, but really, it should depend on the kid. DS was a very introverted and shy child and I think he benefited a lot socially by waiting another year to start school, but I could see how a more outgoing kid might not benefit as much.

People are always worried about sports.  The percentage of people who go on to make it in sports is so low.  Your pediatrician sounds like he turned out ok....he's a Doctor!

My son who started school early was also a late grower.  He's 21 now and I'm pretty sure he just stopped at 6'4".  In elementary, middle and start of high school he was average height.  At start of his senior year football camp he was 16 and 6'1". By end of his senior year he was over 6'2" but still only 17.  His high school football coach would have loved to have him for another year when he found out his age.  He actually got recruited to play football by some DIII schools (offensive line) and could have had scholarships (the coaches also liked his grades and SAT scores, which was the source of the scholarship).  I don't think the offer would have been different if he was in the right grade.  He chose not to play football and go to the big state school (on full scholarship also).

The thing about sports is that if you are truly gifted, the age doesn't matter.  If you have to rely on being the oldest on the team, the other kids will eventually catch up.

[raeoflyte]

Mar 24, 2016 10:10:01 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

Mar 24, 2016 9:41:59 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

When I was a kid, back in the dark ages, parents pushed their kids to skip a grade, because that was kind of a status symbol, to have such a smart kid. Then when DH was in kindergarden, it started becoming the hip thing to do to let your kid, especially a boy, wait a year if they were close to the age cut off (DS's B day is August 11th). My pediatrician was a huge advocate of this, mostly because he was skipped ahead a year when he was a kid and he felt like kept him from participating in sports as much as he wanted to (he wanted to play basketball but was always too short, then grew a foot between HS and college).

DS is 28 now and I don't know what the current 'fad' is, but really, it should depend on the kid. DS was a very introverted and shy child and I think he benefited a lot socially by waiting another year to start school, but I could see how a more outgoing kid might not benefit as much.

People are always worried about sports.  The percentage of people who go on to make it in sports is so low.  Your pediatrician sounds like he turned out ok....he's a Doctor!

My son who started school early was also a late grower.  He's 21 now and I'm pretty sure he just stopped at 6'4".  In elementary, middle and start of high school he was average height.  At start of his senior year football camp he was 16 and 6'1". By end of his senior year he was over 6'2" but still only 17.  His high school football coach would have loved to have him for another year when he found out his age.  He actually got recruited to play football by some DIII schools (offensive line) and could have had scholarships (the coaches also liked his grades and SAT scores, which was the source of the scholarship).  I don't think the offer would have been different if he was in the right grade.  He chose not to play football and go to the big state school (on full scholarship also).

The thing about sports is that if you are truly gifted, the age doesn't matter.  If you have to rely on being the oldest on the team, the other kids will eventually catch up.

We didn't red shirt our son because of sports.  We did it because he was still crying every day at preschool drop off at the end of the year.  He liked preschool, but wanted dh or I to stay with him.  

He may have been fine regardless, but it was impossible to say he was ready for full day, 5 day a week kindergarten based on his behavior at the time we needed to be registering.  Kindergartners are expected to do a heck of a lot of school work, and only get 2 15 minute recess' per day.  There are a lot of 5 year olds who aren't ready to sit that long and retain information yet.  Your kids were, but it doesn't mean that every kid will be okay in that same situation.  

It really is a decision to be made per child.  Ds was diagnosed with T1d this year and being ahead academically is a god send since he now misses 30-45 minutes of class each day testing and potentially treating in the nurses office.  When he is old enough to treat in class, hopefully that isn't an issue, but I'm glad we aren't adding a struggle to keep up academically on top of figuring out everything else.  
 

[happyhoix]

Mar 24, 2016 10:10:01 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

Mar 24, 2016 9:41:59 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

When I was a kid, back in the dark ages, parents pushed their kids to skip a grade, because that was kind of a status symbol, to have such a smart kid. Then when DH was in kindergarden, it started becoming the hip thing to do to let your kid, especially a boy, wait a year if they were close to the age cut off (DS's B day is August 11th). My pediatrician was a huge advocate of this, mostly because he was skipped ahead a year when he was a kid and he felt like kept him from participating in sports as much as he wanted to (he wanted to play basketball but was always too short, then grew a foot between HS and college).

DS is 28 now and I don't know what the current 'fad' is, but really, it should depend on the kid. DS was a very introverted and shy child and I think he benefited a lot socially by waiting another year to start school, but I could see how a more outgoing kid might not benefit as much.

People are always worried about sports.  The percentage of people who go on to make it in sports is so low.  Your pediatrician sounds like he turned out ok....he's a Doctor!

My son who started school early was also a late grower.  He's 21 now and I'm pretty sure he just stopped at 6'4".  In elementary, middle and start of high school he was average height.  At start of his senior year football camp he was 16 and 6'1". By end of his senior year he was over 6'2" but still only 17.  His high school football coach would have loved to have him for another year when he found out his age.  He actually got recruited to play football by some DIII schools (offensive line) and could have had scholarships (the coaches also liked his grades and SAT scores, which was the source of the scholarship).  I don't think the offer would have been different if he was in the right grade.  He chose not to play football and go to the big state school (on full scholarship also).

The thing about sports is that if you are truly gifted, the age doesn't matter.  If you have to rely on being the oldest on the team, the other kids will eventually catch up.

Actually if you ever read Malcolm Gladwell, in his book Outliers, he does a statistical analysis of the players that make up pro sports teams. It's been a while since I read it, but if I remember correctly, for certain sports like hockey, the month you were born in has a lot to do with whether or not you ultimately become a pro athlete, but in other sports it doesn't matter much.

The book begins with the observation that a disproportionate number of elite Canadian hockey players are born in the first few months of the calendar year. The reason is that since youth hockey leagues determine eligibility by calendar year, children born on January 1 play in the same league as those born on December 31 in the same year. Because children born earlier in the year are bigger and more mature than their younger competitors, and they are often identified as better athletes, this leads to extra coaching and a higher likelihood of being selected for elite hockey leagues.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliers_(book)

It's an interesting book. 

[swamp]

Mar 23, 2016 19:45:31 GMT -5 teen persuasion said:

  At least locally, our school's kids seem to mix with different age people just fine, because it's normal to them.  Yesterday at the library a graduate from 3 years ago was catching up with one of the HS boys.  NBD.

That's one of the things I really liked about the private school I sent my kids to.  There was lots of mixing between the grades, and it was stressed to the older kids that they were role models to the little ones.  

DS is still friendly with kids who were in 5th and 6th grade when he was in 1st and 2nd grade. Whenever they see each other at some public or school function and they can chat, they do.