zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 1, 2016 8:18:25 GMT -5
But the hospital will "loan" him the money, too. Difference is, the hospital will expect to be paid back. No one ever asks outright for money, it's always a loan. Except the loan never gets paid back. You think the kid doesn't realize his parents have been loaned thousands over the years and never paid back? I always laugh when I hear the stories of family who were given loans they never paid back and come will reading time, their share is reduced by the amount of the unpaid loans and they're pissed off! That was my suggestion to him, have not heard back. Not surprising. He is young even though he was a Marine and might need some guidance
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Mar 1, 2016 8:20:33 GMT -5
Or maybe he just wants to change the pattern established by his parents!?
To me it looks like the kid is thinking ahead. There is no way a 22 yrs old could foresee the possibil need for a surgery but at least he thought it through and decided asking for a loan instead of just say "I'll figure it out when time comes!" He came to you for a reason hoping that you will trust him with that and most likely knowing about his parents. I'd give him the money but have a talk with him and establish some repayment rules. Another question would be if you KNOW him well enough to trust with the loan or is easier to assume that he will act like his parents?
I know that $6000 is a big chunk of money but it is better to have tried and failed than not to have tried at all!
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Mar 1, 2016 8:23:37 GMT -5
Part of the problem with that side of the family is my DIL worked for me, I caught her stealing money.
I fired her. It was years ago she still bad mouth me at every chance, I can hear right now when the grandson said to her, (that is if he did say anything)
her comment would been "What an asshole" I have heard it before.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Mar 1, 2016 8:25:45 GMT -5
The surgery is not life threatening, it is for a deviated septum, if I spell that right.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2016 9:43:34 GMT -5
Since it's not life-threatening, could you offer to loan him part of it after he saves the other part? Not sure what's reasonable. I'd also give him a chance to prove he's not like his parents, but with stakes small enough that you wouldn't mind if it turned out to be a gift. DH and I have loaned money both to his BIL and to his son- In both cases they needed a car fast. Our stepson wanted $10K; DH and I discussed it and told him we'd loan him $5K. He ended up finding an acceptable car for $5K and did pay the loan back, although a little later than promised. DBIL also paid us back. We figured in each case that if they didn't, the answer for the next request would be, "No- you didn't pay the last one back" and that would be the end of the Bank of Athena53 and Hubby.
The fact that he actually has health insurance shows some responsibility and if I'd been faced with a deductible of that magnitude at age 22 I'd have had to borrow it, too. If I deflate it back to 1975, that would be about $1,300 and I was making $10K/year in a decent job (entry-level actuary) but had only started to save.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 1, 2016 9:47:41 GMT -5
I don't think it is fair to put the sins of the parents on the child. His parents are fuck ups and so many of you are bashing this kid with "he learned from his parents". How can you possibly know that from what the OP?
I am NOTHING like my mother. When I was younger and borrowed money, I paid back every cent. I would never even consider NOT paying someone back. My mom on the other hand never pays me back. It would piss me the fuck off if some nitwit accused me of being like my mom, especially if said nit wit never even met me.
While I can easily come up with $6k, at 22 I was a broke ass college kid. I can't imagine I would have been able to come up with that amount of cash on my own. So how about everyone stop judging this kid just because his parents are fuck ups.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 1, 2016 10:16:56 GMT -5
Take him to the hospital to set up a payment plan. If you want to help him out, pay the hospital directly. I wouldn't even consider it a loan, just make it a gift.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Mar 1, 2016 10:19:24 GMT -5
If I were inclined to give the loan (and it would be a loan, not a gift), there are a few things I'd do. For a surgery, and if he is responsible, I'd make it interest free. I'd set it up so the payback is low enough to be affordable, but high enough that he's not paying back the loan for years and years. However, if I had to pay a penalty or taxes to get that money, that would be included in the payback amount.
I'd also agree to some work for the money (if that is reasonable). If he's local, he can mow the yard, help with a roofing project, help build that shed, etc. Don't super-inflate the value of the work, but allow for some of it to be worked off. I did this with my son's babysitter years ago. I sold my truck to her and her husband. She paid me back half in cash and half in childcare. I loved having reduced childcare for a year!
I'd also have a written contract.
Good luck, with whatever decision you make.
ETA: there is always the option to convert the rest of the loan to a gift if payment has been consistent, or the work has been good, and you decide you can afford it.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Mar 1, 2016 10:22:50 GMT -5
Take him to the hospital to set up a payment plan. If you want to help him out, pay the hospital directly. I wouldn't even consider it a loan, just make it a gift. Good plan. Solves the loan issue and honestly, no matter what happens, Coyote's DIL will still call him names. She's in debt beyond repair, from the sound of it. I'd like to think the son will not repeat the parents' mistakes and can be trusted. But as Carl said, loans among family are just poison. Putting the funds in the hospital's coffers directly takes care of the issue.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 1, 2016 10:26:38 GMT -5
Take him to the hospital to set up a payment plan. If you want to help him out, pay the hospital directly. I wouldn't even consider it a loan, just make it a gift. I'm of two minds about a kid like this (having had a few in my family). On the one hand, he may indeed be attempting to "break the family mold" but has hit a setback. On the other side, he may just be looking for an easy out to his financial bind. Only OC can tell us which it is. I'd also take him to the hospital and help him set up a repayment plan. Then if I saw a few months later that he's serious and making those payments, I might seriously weigh paying the rest of the bill just to help him out. If he's serious about the surgery, he will "go" for a payment plan. And it just might do him good to learn how to honor a debt! If he's not serious, he will put it off (and you will have your answer about how badly he needed the money). A deviated septum may be uncomfortable, but it is not life threatening. Many people live with them their whole lives.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Mar 1, 2016 10:28:21 GMT -5
doesn't a deviated septum lead to or cause sleep apnea?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 1, 2016 10:29:24 GMT -5
One thing to keep in mind with a payment plan is nowadays a lot of hospitals decide what you can afford to pay back, you don't have any say. It's b/c people will pay $10 a month for the rest of their lives.
One chain has gone to if you are a single day late on your payment you go to collections. They've been screwed over too many times.
A LOT of them are going with special credit cards you use upfront too. You sign up at the desk and they charge your card. You then pay off the card balance. Some of them offer 0% for a certain amount of time others have crazy high interest rates.
That's something to keep in mind as well. I did the medical CC thing for my deep cleaning at the dentist. It was $630 and was at 0% for a year.
The Vet's card however I refused because the terms were terrible. Since we are long term customers they allowed us to pay $X upfront and $X after the surgery.
It's becoming really popular around here b/c it ensures the hospital gets all their money upfront. Then it's your problem and the credit card company's if you can't pay off the balance.
I am not saying a payment plan is bad idea but make sure you understand hospital policy before you sign up for it.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Mar 1, 2016 10:32:52 GMT -5
You may not want to say, but is it something urgent or something that can wait? Unforeseen or expected? That might make a difference to me. What about the VA? Any chance they might help?
I'm not against giving money at times, depending on circumstances. For a one-time urgent, unpredictable event, I probably would. No way I would pay their regular bills for anyone. I don't care how much $$ I have.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Mar 1, 2016 10:39:49 GMT -5
The surgery is not life threatening, it is for a deviated septum, if I spell that right. Missed that previously. In that case, I think I'd let him talk to the hospital/doctor and see what he can work out with them. See what he comes up with on his own.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 1, 2016 10:42:03 GMT -5
Isn't this a nose job? What happened?
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Mar 1, 2016 10:42:32 GMT -5
Or maybe he just wants to change the pattern established by his parents!? To me it looks like the kid is thinking ahead. There is no way a 22 yrs old could foresee the possibil need for a surgery but at least he thought it through and decided asking for a loan instead of just say "I'll figure it out when time comes!" He came to you for a reason hoping that you will trust him with that and most likely knowing about his parents. I'd give him the money but have a talk with him and establish some repayment rules. Another question would be if you KNOW him well enough to trust with the loan or is easier to assume that he will act like his parents? I know that $6000 is a big chunk of money but it is better to have tried and failed than not to have tried at all! I disagree. Plenty of 22 year-olds know how to plan ahead. Of course, that might depend on who has been teaching them.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 1, 2016 10:45:04 GMT -5
The surgery is not life threatening, it is for a deviated septum, if I spell that right. If a kid somewhere in my family needed oh, say, heart surgery or cancer surgery or therapy to recover from a horrible car accident - I would have been there with my checkbook yesterday.
A deviated septum is not life threatening - uncomfortable at times, maybe, but not a danger to continuing existence. It is a quality of life surgery, not a life-saving surgery. In my mind, that's the kind of thing he can save up and pay for himself, if he wants it badly enough.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 1, 2016 10:47:39 GMT -5
Not necessarily. Some people are born with deviated septums. Some normal septums deviate when the nose is injured (like in an accident). And some people use "deviated septum" as an excuse to get a cosmetic nose job.
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Mar 1, 2016 10:49:35 GMT -5
The kid is a Marine if I got this right! Excuse me for holding a gun so you can sleep safely instead of taking lessons of financial planing! Don't mean to be rude but not everybody was born a Scrooge! At 22 I barely knew what's going on with life generally speaking.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 1, 2016 10:59:00 GMT -5
doesn't a deviated septum lead to or cause sleep apnea? If he is going into the Marines, wait until he finishes school and let the US military take care of it. A deviated septum isn't going to kill you. He has likely lived with this for many years, a few more aren't going to matter. I lived with mine until I was 33 and had surgery.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Mar 1, 2016 10:59:56 GMT -5
The kid is a Marine if I got this right! Excuse me for holding a gun so you can sleep safely instead of taking lessons of financial planing! Don't mean to be rude but not everybody was born a Scrooge! At 22 I barely knew what's going on with life generally speaking. Yes, I'd give him some credit for being a marine, too. Everyone is different though. At 22 I had already been taking care of myself for years, so it can be done. If I had a "trust fund" I would probably use some of it to pay for this kind of thing for the kids. Maybe some sort of matching deal for big expenese like medical care, down payments on cars or houses, college, etc. Or maybe just give it to them. It would depend on how responsible I thought they were overall.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 1, 2016 11:06:22 GMT -5
Or maybe he just wants to change the pattern established by his parents!? To me it looks like the kid is thinking ahead. There is no way a 22 yrs old could foresee the possibil need for a surgery but at least he thought it through and decided asking for a loan instead of just say "I'll figure it out when time comes!" He came to you for a reason hoping that you will trust him with that and most likely knowing about his parents. I'd give him the money but have a talk with him and establish some repayment rules. Another question would be if you KNOW him well enough to trust with the loan or is easier to assume that he will act like his parents? I know that $6000 is a big chunk of money but it is better to have tried and failed than not to have tried at all! I disagree. Plenty of 22 year-olds know how to plan ahead. Of course, that might depend on who has been teaching them. This person as a 22 year old could plan ahead, however, I could not have come up with $6,000. That would have been like a whole summer's wages.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Mar 1, 2016 11:10:54 GMT -5
Ok...so I know I'm totally ignorant about Obamacare. No question. I've had great health insurance for years from my employer, so other than reading the debates about it, I've not given it much thought.
So, how is a 22 year old who qualifies for Obamacare suddenly supposed to be able to come up with $6000 for surgery? This doesn't make much sense to me unless Obamacare totally sucks. I thought this was supposed to be affordable health care. Doesn't sound like it's affordable to me.
By the way, a deviated septum is not a minor thing. I mean, it's a minor thing compared to cancer surgery, but the problems a deviated septum can cause certainly make surgery a "need" in my opinion.
So what am I missing here? Did he choose the wrong plan? Or does it just suck?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Mar 1, 2016 11:12:23 GMT -5
I disagree. Plenty of 22 year-olds know how to plan ahead. Of course, that might depend on who has been teaching them. This person as a 22 year old could plan ahead, however, I could not have come up with $6,000. That would have been like a whole summer's wages. I was born to be a CPA...I'm a cheap ass who always thinks about the future and have always lived well below my means. That said, at 22 I was a broke college kid who never would have been able to scrape together $6k (or the inflation adjusted equivalent back then). I'm the first one to expect people to "put on their big boy panties" but I think some of you are over-the-top with your expectations.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Mar 1, 2016 11:12:26 GMT -5
The surgery is not life threatening, it is for a deviated septum, if I spell that right. Haha. Is this deviated septum causing any trouble? I have one (probably born with it or received it in some sporting accident unknowingly) and it causes me 0 problems. I've been told I could have it fixed, but why would I?? GS needs a 2nd opinion. It's like a tonsilectomy - easy to prescribe and need, doesn't do much for you 90% of the time. I find it icky that he 'took you out to dinner' to ask you for a 6k loan unless he does this regularly.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Mar 1, 2016 11:15:58 GMT -5
I couldn't have come up with the money at that age either, but would have looked into a payment plan or other options other than borrowing from family. I barely paid my rent back then.
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Mar 1, 2016 11:24:15 GMT -5
Retired medical social worker here - I would not do it. There is more to this story than he is telling you - programs exist to cover situations like this if he is truly unable to pay that, especially if he served in the Marines. There is a difference between not having the money and not wanting to spend it.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 1, 2016 11:25:50 GMT -5
Living with a deviated septum sucks, but many do. It took me awhile to save up my $1500 copay (I was making about $28k at the time). However, part of the reason why I waited so long was because the symptoms (I got the nosebleeds, congestion and frequent sinus infections) weren't bad enough to save money I spent by going out to play with my friends.
Also, if he is being paid to go to school by the Marines, he has a military commitment, which DOES include health insurance....no copays. He should wait until then.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 1, 2016 11:32:34 GMT -5
So, how is a 22 year old who qualifies for Obamacare suddenly supposed to be able to come up with $6000 for surgery? This doesn't make much sense to me unless Obamacare totally sucks.
It depends on what your state has to offer as far as plans go. Iowa's are absolutely horrid. I can either have a $13k deductible for a reasonable premium OR I can have a reasonable deductible but pay out the nose in premiums.
And a lot of them don't cover very much outside of preventative care.
I will do whatever it takes to keep my current benefits b/c I'd be screwed if I had to use the exchange in Iowa.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 1, 2016 11:36:22 GMT -5
I couldn't have come up with the money at that age either, but would have looked into a payment plan or other options other than borrowing from family. I barely paid my rent back then. I would have borrowed from my family.
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