buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Feb 20, 2016 13:52:18 GMT -5
I recently learned that a couple I am slightly acquainted with are likely doing something that is questionable, if not out right illegal. He is divorced and has two kids with his ex-wife. He now lives with a woman he had a child with before marrying the wife, but his name is not on the first child's birth certificate. (Yes, it's all a complicated mess and there's a lot of background story I'm not going to get into.)
During a discussion about child support (generalized discussion, not about this couple specifically), a mutual acquaintance told me that "daddy" works, but his employer makes his paycheck out in the girlfriend's name. This is being done so the ex-wife cannot garnish his paycheck for unpaid child support. I thought that was not legal? It did, however, open my eyes to how far some people will go in order to avoid paying child support. I know at least one of the kids is on Medicaid and have heard things that lead me to believe that all three of them are getting benefits.
So..... here's my question. I don't know beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is what is truly happening. I do believe that the mutual acquaintance was TOLD that this was the case, but I did not hear it directly from the horse's mouth. Do I say something or do I just keep my mouth shut? Part of me feels that I should contact the authorities if this is fraudulent. Another part is saying to just ignore the situation as this couple and everything around them is just one major train wreck.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Feb 20, 2016 14:10:45 GMT -5
You can never go wrong by shutting up about something you do not know from first hand knowledge.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Feb 20, 2016 14:19:06 GMT -5
Agreed. It is one thing if you know 100%, or are passively complicit. It is quite another to stir up a storm based on second hand rumors.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Feb 20, 2016 15:26:07 GMT -5
So, since I didn't directly hear this, should I be more strongly encouraging the person who did to say something? If they do, there are some potential pitfalls as they are kind of required to spend much more time with this couple than I do. Or do we all just go around pretending that this couple is behaving in an acceptable manner?
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Feb 20, 2016 16:16:02 GMT -5
Not my monkeys, not my circus.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Feb 20, 2016 17:12:51 GMT -5
Not my monkeys, not my circus. God I love you woman!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2016 17:13:13 GMT -5
If the ex-wife was my close friend, I'd tell her what I heard and emphasize that I don't know if it's true. She could do whatever she wanted with the information.
Otherwise I tend to mind my own business and try to avoid getting caught up in other people's mess if it doesn't affect me and no one is in danger. As far as reporting random stuff to the authorities, snitches get stitches.... meaning is it worth causing myself some potential problems or headaches to report it. Usually when it's just somebody being trifling, the answer is no.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2016 17:18:19 GMT -5
Usually when it's just somebody being trifling, the answer is no. Committing fraud to avoid paying child support and to get kids on government bennies is not "trifling". I'd encourage someone who knows of it first- hand to report it.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Feb 20, 2016 17:27:28 GMT -5
I'd say nothing and not worry about it ...truth will out at some stage.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2016 17:27:41 GMT -5
Usually when it's just somebody being trifling, the answer is no. Committing fraud to avoid paying child support and to get kids on government bennies is not "trifling". I'd encourage someone who knows of it first- hand to report it. Yes, it is indeed trifling. In "urban" speak, trifling does not necessarily mean inconsequential or unimportant. My bad.
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murphath
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Post by murphath on Feb 20, 2016 17:59:36 GMT -5
Firstly, it is unconscionable that a father would do everything to avoid paying child support. How does that make the children feel!
Secondly, if someone had told me this, I would contact the child support division of the county and let them know what you were told. You can always tell them that you do not know if it's true or not, but perhaps someone should look into it.
If they are receiving benefits, that means you and I are paying the child support so whether you like it or not, we are all involved. In other words, our monkeys, our circus.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2016 17:59:36 GMT -5
Ah, you meant trifling in the sense of gaming the system? (Sort of like "trifling with someone's affections"?). I hadn't thought of that meaning.
Still ticks me off, though, as someone whose every dime of income gets recorded and reported to the racing authorities.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2016 18:07:23 GMT -5
I'd report it. That is a lot of effort going out to shirk his responsibilities. I'm amazed, and disgusted, that the employer is complicit in this. We pay not just for the kids but for the enforcement efforts to find this guy and where he's working. All around you will say us money.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Feb 20, 2016 19:16:20 GMT -5
If the ex-wife was my close friend, I'd tell her what I heard and emphasize that I don't know if it's true. She could do whatever she wanted with the information. Otherwise I tend to mind my own business and try to avoid getting caught up in other people's mess if it doesn't affect me and no one is in danger. As far as reporting random stuff to the authorities, snitches get stitches.... meaning is it worth causing myself some potential problems or headaches to report it. Usually when it's just somebody being trifling, the answer is no. I don't know the ex-wife at all. "Middleman" has met her a couple of times in passing, but doesn't know her either. This doesn't impact me directly as DH and I had pretty much disconnected from the acquaintances because much of their behavior (or statements of their behavior) are unpleasant to us. From what I've seen there is no immediate danger to any of the kids at this time. However, none of the four kids are living with these two right now either. The acquaintances are trying to set themselves up for the oldest child to live with them starting this summer. She will be of an age where a judge would take her preference into consideration. And they're trying to have another baby. My initial reaction was to just pretend I didn't know anything about this situation, but isn't that how those dead beat dads on the other thread get away with not paying child support? As I said, this doesn't impact me directly, but there is a good possibility it will have some indirect influence.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Feb 20, 2016 19:17:05 GMT -5
Kick his ass.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Feb 20, 2016 19:27:29 GMT -5
Firstly, it is unconscionable that a father would do everything to avoid paying child support. How does that make the children feel! Secondly, if someone had told me this, I would contact the child support division of the county and let them know what you were told. You can always tell them that you do not know if it's true or not, but perhaps someone should look into it. If they are receiving benefits, that means you and I are paying the child support so whether you like it or not, we are all involved. In other words, our monkeys, our circus. This is why the whole conversation is sticking in my head. I agree that his actions are abominable. But is it really my problem? As someone else said, won't time out him?
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Feb 20, 2016 19:29:30 GMT -5
I'd report it. That is a lot of effort going out to shirk his responsibilities. I'm amazed, and disgusted, that the employer is complicit in this. We pay not just for the kids but for the enforcement efforts to find this guy and where he's working. All around you will say us money. Later, not certain it took much effort to shirk his responsibilities. I suspect he told his employer he has or potentially has a garnishment issue and could he just put a different name on his paycheck? I am surprised the employer is complicit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2016 19:34:24 GMT -5
I'd report it. That is a lot of effort going out to shirk his responsibilities. I'm amazed, and disgusted, that the employer is complicit in this. We pay not just for the kids but for the enforcement efforts to find this guy and where he's working. All around you will say us money. Later, not certain it took much effort to shirk his responsibilities. I suspect he told his employer he has or potentially has a garnishment issue and could he just put a different name on his paycheck? I am surprised the employer is complicit. I consider breaking the law to be a lot of effort.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Feb 20, 2016 19:34:42 GMT -5
Ah, you meant trifling in the sense of gaming the system? (Sort of like "trifling with someone's affections"?). I hadn't thought of that meaning. Still ticks me off, though, as someone whose every dime of income gets recorded and reported to the racing authorities. When Middleman told me about this, my first question was, "Doesn't this idiot realize what he's doing to HIMSELF with this?" If his pay is being credited to GF, then he's not paying SS or Medicare taxes. GF has to claim all the income on her taxes which means she could lose her low income benefits. If he dies in an accident, his kids won't be able to collect SS benefits on the income he made but was reported elsewhere. Forget about what he's "saving" now with this game. He's not doing himself any long-term favors.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Feb 20, 2016 19:35:33 GMT -5
Straight to the point as always, Shooby!
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gregintenn
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Post by gregintenn on Feb 20, 2016 19:41:54 GMT -5
As long as the government hands out free shit, people will do whatever is necessary to get some. I know lots of guys who have several children with women, but won't marry because the mother would lose gov bennies.
As far as the woman not getting child support, you play with snakes, you get bit.
What do you stand to gain or lose by inserting yourself into the situation? That's something you should consider before saying anything. I see more down side than potential upside for your meddling in it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2016 20:07:37 GMT -5
Ah, you meant trifling in the sense of gaming the system? (Sort of like "trifling with someone's affections"?). I hadn't thought of that meaning. Still ticks me off, though, as someone whose every dime of income gets recorded and reported to the racing authorities. No, I meant as in lacking morals, integrity or good character and/ or very irresponsible. It is not a compliment when I call someone trifling., I usually find that person or at least some of their behavior/actions disgusting. I did not say that gaming the system to avoid taking care of your kids is ok. My opinion is quite the opposite. I just said I would not report the situation in the OP myself.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Feb 20, 2016 20:21:10 GMT -5
Firstly, it is unconscionable that a father would do everything to avoid paying child support. How does that make the children feel! Secondly, if someone had told me this, I would contact the child support division of the county and let them know what you were told. You can always tell them that you do not know if it's true or not, but perhaps someone should look into it. If they are receiving benefits, that means you and I are paying the child support so whether you like it or not, we are all involved. In other words, our monkeys, our circus. This is why the whole conversation is sticking in my head. I agree that his actions are abominable. But is it really my problem? As someone else said, won't time out him? Won't time out him? Not necessarily. In fact, I'd kind of bet against it until he's say 62 to 65.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 20, 2016 20:27:06 GMT -5
The ex-wife is not getting child support. Does the ex-wife know her ex-husband is working? Or do theylive so far apart (distance wise) there is zero contact or knowledge about the ex-husband's employment status.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2016 20:27:11 GMT -5
If the ex-wife was my close friend, I'd tell her what I heard and emphasize that I don't know if it's true. She could do whatever she wanted with the information. Otherwise I tend to mind my own business and try to avoid getting caught up in other people's mess if it doesn't affect me and no one is in danger. As far as reporting random stuff to the authorities, snitches get stitches.... meaning is it worth causing myself some potential problems or headaches to report it. Usually when it's just somebody being trifling, the answer is no. I don't know the ex-wife at all. "Middleman" has met her a couple of times in passing, but doesn't know her either. This doesn't impact me directly as DH and I had pretty much disconnected from the acquaintances because much of their behavior (or statements of their behavior) are unpleasant to us. From what I've seen there is no immediate danger to any of the kids at this time. However, none of the four kids are living with these two right now either. The acquaintances are trying to set themselves up for the oldest child to live with them starting this summer. She will be of an age where a judge would take her preference into consideration. And they're trying to have another baby. My initial reaction was to just pretend I didn't know anything about this situation, but isn't that how those dead beat dads on the other thread get away with not paying child support? As I said, this doesn't impact me directly, but there is a good possibility it will have some indirect influence. I'm not knocking you for wanting to influence the right thing happening here. BUT, even if he does get caught, it doesn't mean he'll suddenly decide to own up to his bad behavior and do right going forward. And, I don't have a lot of faith that you won't be wasting your time reporting him even if you knew for sure it was true..... how much effort really goes into investigating this kind of thing? I guess I'm just a bit jaded about people acting right and "systems" working like they're suppose to.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Feb 20, 2016 20:32:20 GMT -5
As long as the government hands out free shit, people will do whatever is necessary to get some. I know lots of guys who have several children with women, but won't marry because the mother would lose gov bennies. As far as the woman not getting child support, you play with snakes, you get bit. What do you stand to gain or lose by inserting yourself into the situation? That's something you should consider before saying anything. I see more down side than potential upside for your meddling in it. Middleman MAY gain or lose, I really won't except for the incidental costs of benefits going to some kids when their father should be offsetting the costs. DH and I are very close to Middleman's whole family, so the potential impact on them is important to me. I've been asking myself just HOW this could impact them and it's complicated.
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buystoys
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Post by buystoys on Feb 20, 2016 20:36:57 GMT -5
The ex-wife is not getting child support. Does the ex-wife know her ex-husband is working? Or do theylive so far apart (distance wise) there is zero contact or knowledge about the ex-husband's employment status. The ex-wife lives a little more than an hour from him, so I don't know if she's aware of his employment status. I don't believe she has a car of her own, but I could be wrong. His employment the last several years has been very sporadic, so she'd have reason to believe him if he said he wasn't working.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 20, 2016 20:38:06 GMT -5
Since you don't know "beyond a shadow of a doubt," you should do nothing. I put 0 stock into unverified rumors and while the he said she said conversations can be entertaining, no I would not report to authorities based on he said she said.
That said, I have no problem calling people out directly. Why don't you just tell your friend (acquaintance?) what you heard and see what he says. Maybe he'll tell you his side of the story.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Feb 20, 2016 22:45:23 GMT -5
Ah, you meant trifling in the sense of gaming the system? (Sort of like "trifling with someone's affections"?). I hadn't thought of that meaning. Still ticks me off, though, as someone whose every dime of income gets recorded and reported to the racing authorities. When Middleman told me about this, my first question was, "Doesn't this idiot realize what he's doing to HIMSELF with this?" If his pay is being credited to GF, then he's not paying SS or Medicare taxes. GF has to claim all the income on her taxes which means she could lose her low income benefits. If he dies in an accident, his kids won't be able to collect SS benefits on the income he made but was reported elsewhere. Forget about what he's "saving" now with this game. EHe's not doing himself any long-term favors. These sort of people don't tend to think long-term.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Feb 21, 2016 7:55:35 GMT -5
I agree with everyone else who has told you that if you don't have first-hand information that this guy is gaming the system, you'd be better off keeping your mouth shut.
But you needn't worry that this guy is getting away with anything. If he's actually working under Lady Before and After's name, he's built himself a special type of hell. Perhaps if you start counting the ways, you'll feel better about not airing your suspicions. There's quite a bit more idiocy in play here than not getting properly credited for Social Security.
If he is getting paid under his LB&A's name, he may not have any control over his paycheck. While it is possible that his employer pays him in cash or cashes his check for him or pays him via a payroll processing card, it sounds quite likely that his paycheck goes directly to LB&A.
If he ever tries to leave LB&A, she can utterly nail him with a paternity claim on the first child, or on the one that they are trying to conceive. She won't necessarily collect a dime, but it sure will make his life miserable and his paychecks puny, assuming of course that he manages to find another job and another place to live.
Finally, there is a decent possibility that this guy isn't even garnishable or that the amount of the combined garnishment and CS (a child support obligation would probably materialize if he was actually reporting earnings) is actually tiny. This guy seems to have put his junk in a vise for a pittance. Well, maybe not a pittance, he's also getting housing and benefits from LB&A but he's definitely put himself in a situation where she holds all the cards and he holds none.
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