zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 13, 2016 8:10:00 GMT -5
There's a really nice guy at my bank. Everyone who works there has their first name on their name tag. Not him. I'm sure his first name must be ghetto sounding so he uses his first initial and his last name.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 13, 2016 8:11:55 GMT -5
The name Herschel is very, very old. If this is a girl, maybe they named her after her grandfather and tried to make it more feminine. Or maybe they just like chocolate.
On another board someone is naming her boy Luke Skywalker and was upset that her mom didn't think it was a good idea. 100+ post later, nobody thought it was a good idea.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 13, 2016 8:16:02 GMT -5
I think parents that do these things to their kids ought to be required to change their own names to something that can be ridiculed.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Feb 13, 2016 8:24:33 GMT -5
I used to not like the newer names thinking they were odd but now I think the old names would be odd. Imagine some girl naming her baby Helen, Mary, Ida, Ellen, Irma or other old fashion name instead of Ashley and Chloe and other newer names. I prefer odd names that aren't so odd I can't pronounce them like Tomas, or Persephone that aren't so hard to say or spell or names they explain how they got them like Vipi was named by her father for Very Important Person Indeed. I don't like ghetto names because they make me think the person raising the child is going to teach them ghetto behavior and the names are too hard to spell or pronounce sometimes. When I think of old-fashioned names, I think of names like Gertrude and Myrtle. The problem with Ashley, Kimberly and Chloe, is that EVERYONE is named Ashley, Kimberly and Chloe. Names definitely go in and out of fashion in cycles. My name is on Crone's list, but it was a great grandmother's name. DS2's girlfriend's name is on the list, too. She's twenty. Kimberly stuck out to me - I haven't heard anyone with that name younger than 40 or so. I've seen groups of "Bri_" names: Brianna, Bre'an, etc. And lots of Maddy names: Madison, Madelyn, Madeline, Maddecat (not sure on the spelling of this one). The youngest girl's names seem to be older names recycled, but only a subset deemed "pretty" now: Olivia, Emma, Emilia, Lilianna, Evangelina, Coraline.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 8:32:26 GMT -5
I have one Kimberly in group. Several Aidens and Samanthas and Graces and Micahs. Lots of MOMs named Heather and Jessica and Amanda and Ashley. Interestingly my daughter has two friends named Isis.
Unique names are older?, Atticus, Angus, Sophia, Josie, Malachi, a couple Ezras, stuff like that.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 13, 2016 8:43:21 GMT -5
My grandma was Emma. She hated it and always went by her middle name that I thought was much worse. She stuck my mom with that same middle name. My mom broke tradition, thankfully. But I liked it.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 13, 2016 8:43:44 GMT -5
Liked Emma, I mean.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Feb 13, 2016 9:25:31 GMT -5
My grandma was Emma. She hated it and always went by her middle name that I thought was much worse. She stuck my mom with that same middle name. My mom broke tradition, thankfully. But I liked it. I have an aunt, from Ireland, whose given name is Bridget, but goes by her middle name, Agnes, since she thought it was prettier. I remembered a few more of the "new" old-fashioned names for girls: Sophia, Isabella, Esme. I realise the last 2 are influenced by Twilight, but the Izzy I know well was born before the book came out. Another name I run into frequently is Shelby; that is a town name close by, and my brother had a dog named Shelby, so it always strikes me as odd to name your child that. Might just be me.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 13, 2016 11:30:06 GMT -5
I should add that I didn't see employers/hiring managers/HR people balk at foreign names - whether the names were Hispanic, Asian, etc. In fact the only times I ever saw reactions to foreign names (even the hard to pronounce ones) the reaction was a positive one because in Arizona, it was big plus if the employee spoke Spanish. What I'm describing is the reaction to "ghetto" names, names that indicated that the parents were proud enough of their ignorance to name a kid something that proclaimed their 'hood heritage.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 11:56:10 GMT -5
It's actually about whether the family has buckled under and learned to "play by the rules". No, it's not. Not in my experience. Maybe in your area or maybe if by "play by the rules" you mean "understand basic social norms". From what I've seen, it's more of a hesitancy to bring ghetto behavior into a professional environment. Most of the highly professional people I worked with were aware how hard even highly professional employees are to manage; they didn't want to have to deal with the inevitable weird stuff that crops up when someone from a ghetto environment first encounters a professional environment. Can someone from a ghetto background learn how to interact in a professional environment, be incredibly smart and hard working and succeed? Absolutely. But it doesn't happen in a vacuum and many corporate employers are hesitant to take on that sort of "project." Naming your kid a ghetto name is an indicator to an employer that you might not only be ghetto in the naming department but the manners department as well and it's just not something many employers want to take on. You don't even see how prejudice that is. All this based on a name, without consideration of education or references. "basic social norms" is incredibly subjective, so you're looking for "your kind of people". It's so deep in you that you have no idea how bigoted it is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 12:01:01 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 12:10:58 GMT -5
So I guess some people wouldn't even pause at the name Y'alljealous.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 13, 2016 12:19:05 GMT -5
No, it's not. Not in my experience. Maybe in your area or maybe if by "play by the rules" you mean "understand basic social norms". From what I've seen, it's more of a hesitancy to bring ghetto behavior into a professional environment. Most of the highly professional people I worked with were aware how hard even highly professional employees are to manage; they didn't want to have to deal with the inevitable weird stuff that crops up when someone from a ghetto environment first encounters a professional environment. Can someone from a ghetto background learn how to interact in a professional environment, be incredibly smart and hard working and succeed? Absolutely. But it doesn't happen in a vacuum and many corporate employers are hesitant to take on that sort of "project." Naming your kid a ghetto name is an indicator to an employer that you might not only be ghetto in the naming department but the manners department as well and it's just not something many employers want to take on. You don't even see how prejudice that is. All this based on a name, without consideration of education or references. "basic social norms" is incredibly subjective, so you're looking for "your kind of people". It's so deep in you that you have no idea how bigoted it is. I realize how prejudiced it is. It's a prejudice against a certain type of attitude and behavior, which is different than a prejudice against a skin color or a racial background.
And yes, if it's on a resume the person hiring will also see the education and employment background of the applicant. But if there are two applicants with essentially the same education and employment background and one has a ghetto name while the other does not and there's only one last interview available, guess which prospective employee is getting the interview?
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 13, 2016 12:20:04 GMT -5
So I guess some people wouldn't even pause at the name Y'alljealous. You're so bigoted!!! I'm certain that this child will have been steeped in manners and good choices for the entire 18 years of her childhood. No possible drama there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 12:20:50 GMT -5
You don't even see how prejudice that is. All this based on a name, without consideration of education or references. "basic social norms" is incredibly subjective, so you're looking for "your kind of people". It's so deep in you that you have no idea how bigoted it is. I realize how prejudiced it is. It's a prejudice against a certain type of attitude and behavior, which is different than a prejudice against a skin color or a racial background.
Not when you are assuming an attitude and behaviour is present because of a name like Misty or Bobby Jo.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 12:21:56 GMT -5
So I guess some people wouldn't even pause at the name Y'alljealous. You're so bigoted!!! I'm certain that this child will have been steeped in manners and good choices for the entire 18 years of her childhood. No possible drama there. You weren't listing names like Y'alljealous. Your threshold is MUCH shallower than that.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 13, 2016 12:28:09 GMT -5
I realize how prejudiced it is. It's a prejudice against a certain type of attitude and behavior, which is different than a prejudice against a skin color or a racial background.
Not when you are assuming an attitude and behaviour is present because of a name like Misty or Bobby Jo. Sure it is. The environment you are raised in matters. Generally, for 18 years you're immersed in the family life of the people who gave you the name. Employers don't always have much to go on and they are making guesses based on a single sheet of paper prior to interviewing. The name of the college you attended, the prior jobs you had all tell a story of what you've been exposed to and immersed in. If you're named "Y'Alljealous" employers are picturing that you spent the first 18 years of your life in either a ghetto situation or foster care. Can people from the ghetto or foster care be very successful - yes! But as an employer if you have one interview slot open and you're having to choose between people with similar colleges and experience, if one has a name that implies s/he grew up surrounded by ghetto culture, the employer is going to wonder how much of it s/he will carry to work.
It's unfair, just like it's unfair that some people are better looking than others. Better looking people are assumed to be more honest, harder working etc. through no fault or virtue of their own. Just like the poor "Y'Alljealous' " of the world are assumed to be a ghetto disaster. Unfair and possibly untrue, but it's how things are for many jobs.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 13, 2016 12:29:27 GMT -5
You're so bigoted!!! I'm certain that this child will have been steeped in manners and good choices for the entire 18 years of her childhood. No possible drama there. You weren't listing names like Y'alljealous. Your threshold is MUCH shallower than that. I've been posting about what I saw in corporate America. Some of which I'd agree with some of which I would not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 12:38:19 GMT -5
You weren't listing names like Y'alljealous. Your threshold is MUCH shallower than that. I've been posting about what I saw in corporate America. Some of which I'd agree with some of which I would not. You've described it and justified it. Anyway, I'm not going to debate it with you. The fact that you posted it showed that you don't think there's a thing wrong with either the attitude or behaviour. I'm sure I'm not the one that will cause an epiphany.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 12:40:34 GMT -5
It isn't justification to acknowledge that bias exists. Our business is not my husbands surname for a reason.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 12:44:22 GMT -5
It isn't justification to acknowledge that bias exists. Have you read her posts?
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 13, 2016 12:50:33 GMT -5
It's not noble or enlightened to pretend that there are behaviours that are inappropriate and unacceptable in corporate employment situations. Employers are going to use the small amount of information they have on an employee to avoid dealing with inappropriate or unacceptable behaviours. None of that is in any way wrong. Is it debatable that a name is a red flag of someone who may have been immersed in inappropriate or unacceptable behaviours - sure. Unfortunately, a name is part of the first impression an employer receives, just like the grammar on the resume, the clothing an applicant wears, the hairstyle the applicant chooses, whether the applicant is model beautiful or unfortunately unattractive, the college the applicant attended, etc. It's all part of the package of impressions.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 13, 2016 12:53:51 GMT -5
Handicapping your child from birth is not an act of love or good parenting.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 12:56:00 GMT -5
It's not noble or enlightened to pretend that there are behaviours that are inappropriate and unacceptable in corporate employment situations. Employers are going to use the small amount of information they have on an employee to avoid dealing with inappropriate or unacceptable behaviours. None of that is in any way wrong. Is it debatable that a name is a red flag of someone who may have been immersed in inappropriate or unacceptable behaviours - sure. Unfortunately, a name is part of the first impression an employer receives, just like the grammar on the resume, the clothing an applicant wears, the hairstyle the applicant chooses, whether the applicant is model beautiful or unfortunately unattractive, the college the applicant attended, etc. It's all part of the package of impressions. I never debated whether it happened. I said it is a snobby and prejudiced behaviour and you proceeded to explain to me why it is perfectly acceptable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 12:57:00 GMT -5
milee, zib is agreeing with you. Doesn't that tell you anything?
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gregintenn
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Post by gregintenn on Feb 13, 2016 13:02:05 GMT -5
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 13, 2016 13:03:27 GMT -5
It's not noble or enlightened to pretend that there are behaviours that are inappropriate and unacceptable in corporate employment situations. Employers are going to use the small amount of information they have on an employee to avoid dealing with inappropriate or unacceptable behaviours. None of that is in any way wrong. Is it debatable that a name is a red flag of someone who may have been immersed in inappropriate or unacceptable behaviours - sure. Unfortunately, a name is part of the first impression an employer receives, just like the grammar on the resume, the clothing an applicant wears, the hairstyle the applicant chooses, whether the applicant is model beautiful or unfortunately unattractive, the college the applicant attended, etc. It's all part of the package of impressions. I never debated whether it happened. I said it is a snobby and prejudiced behaviour and you proceeded to explain to me why it is perfectly acceptable. I explained what the assumptions were and why they were made.
I do agree with some of them and I don't agree with others. As an employer, I also think that the pendulum has swung so far that it's easy to throw the accusation of "bias" and "prejudiced" to impugn employers for doing something that's reasonable to do. Employers get put in more and more no-win situations by well meaning lawmakers and activists who are trying to right prior wrongs and in doing so cause unforeseen problems. An example is the new movement to "ban the box" meaning employers would be prohibited from inquiring about an applicant's criminal record. For some jobs, that's very reasonable since the employee's work wouldn't put any other people or assets at risk. But for other jobs that would be nuts. Employers following that mandate or just giving what appears to be a rehabilitated criminal a second chance would be held liable if anything bad happened. So employers aren't able to make the choice if they want to take that risk, but have all the exposure for if it goes wrong. Things like that - and how difficult it can be to fire a problem employee - are why employers are getting more and more careful and more and more leery of inviting trouble into their place of work.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Feb 13, 2016 13:03:48 GMT -5
I have a unique name but it's foreign, not just made up. I always found it so embarrassing as a child and remember coming home crying one day asking my Mom why she couldn't have just named me a normal name like Amy. As an adult it's no longer embarrassing and often a topic of conversation where ever I go, but in a good way. I can't imagine having a name that was deemed "weird" and had a bad connotation associated with it. It's just sad.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 13, 2016 13:05:21 GMT -5
milee, zib is agreeing with you. Doesn't that tell you anything? Yeah. It is harsh. I get that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 13:06:59 GMT -5
milee, zib is agreeing with you. Doesn't that tell you anything? Yeah. It is harsh. I get that.
That's the most diplomatic thing you've said in this whole thread!
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