The Job Hunt Thread

[moneymaven]

Speaking as a person wronged by a shitty employer, and in hindsight, I probably should have taken more action than I did. I get not wanting to burn bridges but people shouldn't get away with acting in business without integrity and ethics.

[zibazinski]

I wouldn't relocate my whole family to Virginia either right away. It may or may not be a good fit. If that job comes through for you

[zibazinski]

It's not easy to sue an employer any more than its easy to sue a doctor for malpractice. Sometimes moving on is best.

[mojothehelpermonkey]

Jan 23, 2016 14:26:43 GMT -5 moneymaven said:

Speaking as a person wronged by a shitty employer, and in hindsight, I probably should have taken more action than I did. I get not wanting to burn bridges but people shouldn't get away with acting in business without integrity and ethics.

In my bad work situation I just didn't have the energy to pursue anything, but I would have supported any of my coworkers if they had taken legal action. I don't regret not doing anything because it helped me get over my anger and move on faster. However, these types of employers can keep pulling this crap because most people just walk away.
Fighting back can be emotionally and financially exhausting though. (I am assuming this. I know several people who were fired for BS reasons and none of them fought back. I suspect employers are probably less likely to fire (without cause) employees who have the resources to fight back.)

[geenamercile]

Here is a question, if you were fired will you be able to collect unemployment?  If not then a severance package could be helpful.  Or maybe the lawyer could help you change it to being laid off or something so you would be able to collect unemployment.  Good luck and yes I would keep all of the interviews until I have a firm offer and I have started.   

[andi9899]

So here's a question. One job I applied for is training agents. How do I explain wanting to go from being one to training them and why I want to leave where I am now. The truth is that things go on at my current company that I don't agree with and I refuse to compromise my integrity or reputation to make a sale. That just sounds bad.

[Deleted]

Jan 23, 2016 18:10:41 GMT -5 geenamercile said:

Here is a question, if you were fired will you be able to collect unemployment?  If not then a severance package could be helpful.  Or maybe the lawyer could help you change it to being laid off or something so you would be able to collect unemployment.  Good luck and yes I would keep all of the interviews until I have a firm offer and I have started.   

This is sort of what I was wondering.  Aren't they going to claim that they fired you for cause?  You can protest that every other manager does it, but I don't think that argument got very far for NomoreDramaQ1015's husband.  You guys may be up the proverbial creek if you can't get unemployment.  That assumes you don't get the job(s) you are working on right now.

I would talk with a lawyer.  

[moneymaven]

Jan 23, 2016 19:18:35 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

So here's a question. One job I applied for is training agents. How do I explain wanting to go from being one to training them and why I want to leave where I am now. The truth is that things go on at my current company that I don't agree with and I refuse to compromise my integrity or reputation to make a sale. That just sounds bad.

I think that's simple. You've walked the walk, but now you would like to help develop and mentor new talent in the industry. The business has a significant amount of experienced agents transitioning out in the next 5 years and focusing on recruiting and development of young agents will not only benefit the industry, but is something you enjoy.

[wvugurl26]

I'm sure it can be very hard to sue. That's why I said consult with a good employment lawyer and explore options.

[andi9899]

Jan 23, 2016 19:54:01 GMT -5 moneymaven said:

Jan 23, 2016 19:18:35 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

So here's a question. One job I applied for is training agents. How do I explain wanting to go from being one to training them and why I want to leave where I am now. The truth is that things go on at my current company that I don't agree with and I refuse to compromise my integrity or reputation to make a sale. That just sounds bad.

I think that's simple. You've walked the walk, but now you would like to help develop and mentor new talent in the industry. The business has a significant amount of experienced agents transitioning out in the next 5 years and focusing on recruiting and development of young agents will not only benefit the industry, but is something you enjoy.

I love it! Way better than what I was thinking!

[TheHaitian]

Suing is so emotionally/financially draining that it makes you wonder if it is worth it to go down that route, seems simpler to just move on!

Anyway after praying and thinking about it; I emailed the HR lady boss and cc'd the VP of Operations. Maybe something will come of it; maybe nothing.

But I just wanted to let my side be known and leave it out there. Now going to focus on nailing that interview on Tuesday and depends on how they react might see a lawyer at the end of the week.... Not sure yet/still on the fence.

Fingers crossed for Tuesday and hopefully everything goes well!

[moneymaven]

Good luck, Carl. We're pulling for you!

[TheHaitian]

My wife, MIL and I went to the store where I will have my interview on Tuesday. Nice area (rich area) and store looked good.

I am interviewing for either that location (45 minutes away) or the location I visited last Tuesday (20 minutes away).

Location wise: the one 20 minutes away would actually be better!

Store wise : I prefer the one I went to today; bigger and nicer. Also seems busier (and nicer neighborhood/ high end clientele). High end clientele usually comes with their own set of problems but at least they are spending money vs stealing it.

Really? I am not in a position to be picky and I will take any store they offer me. Just need to do well on Tuesday!!!

Hoping and praying!

[TheHaitian]

Jan 24, 2016 12:58:25 GMT -5 moneymaven said:

Good luck, Carl. We're pulling for you!

Thank you, I need all the good luck / good wishes I can get!

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Do practice interviews with your wife and/or MIL; heck even do them with the dog!
Good luck!

[Deleted]

Jan 24, 2016 12:56:55 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Suing is so emotionally/financially draining that it makes you wonder if it is worth it to go down that route, seems simpler to just move on!

Anyway after praying and thinking about it; I emailed the HR lady boss and cc'd the VP of Operations. Maybe something will come of it; maybe nothing.

But I just wanted to let my side be known and leave it out there. Now going to focus on nailing that interview on Tuesday and depends on how they react might see a lawyer at the end of the week.... Not sure yet/still on the fence.

Fingers crossed for Tuesday and hopefully everything goes well!

Good Luck on Tuesday!

You need an attorney to assist you with the unemployment claim. Unless the company told you they will not fight the UE claim (and sometimes they lie about that), you should talk with an attorney before filing. You will need representation at your claim review meeting if the company fights it. 

Suing for wrongful termination is kind of a game, but you should talk to an attorney because if you don't get UE, you may get some money out of the company to get you to sign a waiver. Not sure of your details, but it sounds like two issues have been raised and they took their time on the second issue to make sure they could let you go with solid documentation. Getting your file changed to not terminated for cause may be an important step for you.  Gosh I feel like I have missed a lot!!

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jan 23, 2016 19:47:44 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

Jan 23, 2016 18:10:41 GMT -5 geenamercile said:

Here is a question, if you were fired will you be able to collect unemployment?  If not then a severance package could be helpful.  Or maybe the lawyer could help you change it to being laid off or something so you would be able to collect unemployment.  Good luck and yes I would keep all of the interviews until I have a firm offer and I have started.   

This is sort of what I was wondering.  Aren't they going to claim that they fired you for cause?  You can protest that every other manager does it, but I don't think that argument got very far for NomoreDramaQ1015 's husband.  You guys may be up the proverbial creek if you can't get unemployment.  That assumes you don't get the job(s) you are working on right now.

I would talk with a lawyer.  

We have no proof of the other employee doing anything.   The company covered it all up.  Nebraska is a right to work state they can fire you on a dime.  The burden of proof would have been on us which is extremely difficult to do when they shut off your email/computer access right away.   A good reason to keep a literal paper trail.

They could have drug things out long enough to find other "cause" to terminate DH.    If we had absolutely needed the UE we would have challenged it but we got lucky and DH got a job right away.

The problem I see here is not only do they have the claim about training employees but there is also the sexual harassment claims they can throw up to show there is a history of "issues" 

[TheHaitian]

I contacted a lawyer and have an appointment for Wednesday at 2 PM.

I was informed that there was no ACT process for store managers after I was led to believe there was one, so we will see what are my options.

I have taken pictures of text messages I receive from my boss and text messages sent from my Manager Duty about calls coming in from my boss and what he was requesting (I did attach them to the email I sent to the VP of Operations and HR Director.

Also they can always always the 45 store managers, 3 zone directors and 4 HR specialists the event in question when my Regional Vice President stood up and said he knew it was being done and he was basically looking the other way (also referred to that in my email).

Anyway not going to focus on it more till Wednesday, I have an interview to nail tomorrow.

[ArchietheDragon]

Jan 25, 2016 9:57:53 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jan 23, 2016 19:47:44 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

This is sort of what I was wondering.  Aren't they going to claim that they fired you for cause?  You can protest that every other manager does it, but I don't think that argument got very far for NomoreDramaQ1015 's husband.  You guys may be up the proverbial creek if you can't get unemployment.  That assumes you don't get the job(s) you are working on right now.

I would talk with a lawyer.  

They told him he needs to get into work at 3:15 am that way he can do his of prep off the clock.  THEN he is allowed clock in at exactly 4:30 am.


    

Is that right?   An hour and fifteen minutes of prep for the job?

[zibazinski]

Jan 25, 2016 10:13:02 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Jan 25, 2016 9:57:53 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

They told him he needs to get into work at 3:15 am that way he can do his of prep off the clock.  THEN he is allowed clock in at exactly 4:30 am.


    

Is that right?   An hour and fifteen minutes of prep for the job?

Unpaid?

[TheHaitian]

Jan 25, 2016 10:27:42 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Jan 25, 2016 10:13:02 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Is that right?   An hour and fifteen minutes of prep for the job?

Unpaid?

[zibazinski]

I'm sure that's hugely illegal. He needs to keep looking while he's got a job.

[TheHaitian]

That is taking punctuality to a whole new level!!! I do not mind 15 minutes early, heck I will be half an hour early
If you push it .... But 1h and 15 minutes is freaking insane even by my wife standards that is Miss Punctual and never late!

[TheHaitian]

Did he talk to Coke?

[kittensaver]

For TheHaitian: just to be clear, talking to a lawyer to get some clarity about your rights and your treatment at the hands of this employer is never a bad idea. A competent lawyer will be honest with you if you do not have a case.

And retaining a lawyer with the possibility of litigation is merely a strategic move. One of the first things they tell you in law school is that 99% of the cases you take on will never see the inside of a court room. You retain a lawyer as a bargaining chip. When your former employer hears from your lawyer, even just the threat of a lawsuit means they will probably - sooner than later - go ahead and put a severance package together for you, including the opportunity to "define" the terms of your departure. In exchange, you will probably need to sign away your rights to future litigation with them (yeah, yeah, with some exceptions for certain federal laws that are probably not relevant here - your lawyer can fill you in on the details that don't matter for the sake of this particular discussion here).

Getting a lawyer and putting the specter of a suit out there is very different from actually filing a suit. You want a settlement long before any suit gets filed. Make sense?

Why not get the best of both worlds? Wrangle some severance pay, clear your termination record AND move on?

Just a thought.

[whoami]

DH doesnt get paid for huge blocks of his time at work....including the time he spends preflighting an airplane making sure its safe for passengers.  

The pilots union is one of the loudest groups out there.  They have never managed to get all the time pilots spend at the airport included in the paycheck. 

[TheHaitian]

Jan 25, 2016 10:45:32 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

For TheHaitian: just to be clear, talking to a lawyer to get some clarity about your rights and your treatment at the hands of this employer is never a bad idea. A competent lawyer will be honest with you if you do not have a case.

And retaining a lawyer with the possibility of litigation is merely a strategic move. One of the first things they tell you in law school is that 99% of the cases you take on will never see the inside of a court room. You retain a lawyer as a bargaining chip. When your former employer hears from your lawyer, even just the threat of a lawsuit means they will probably - sooner than later - go ahead and put a severance package together for you, including the opportunity to "define" the terms of your departure. In exchange, you will probably need to sign away your rights to future litigation with them (yeah, yeah, with some exceptions for certain federal laws that are probably not relevant here - your lawyer can fill you in on the details that don't matter for the sake of this particular discussion here).

Getting a lawyer and putting the specter of a suit out there is very different from actually filing a suit. You want a settlement long before any suit gets filed. Make sense?

Why not get the best of both worlds? Wrangle some severance pay, clear your termination record AND move on?

Just a thought.

Thank you

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

3:15 am to leave our house, sorry.  We live in Council Bluffs and the OS plant is out in Papillion.

He'd get into work around 3:45 am.    Then he is expected to get dressed for work while off the clock.  It takes about 25 minutes to get dressed.   Then he needs to get down to the other side of the plant and THEN he clocks in at exactly 4:30 and not a minute before/after.

Yes he is expected to get in that early, dress and walk down to the other side of the plant all unpaid.

Yes it is illegal.  Tyson got sued for it while DH was working there and the employees won.  The DOL dictates you're on the clock if the company requires you change into company provided/required gear then you are considered on the clock and must be paid.

DH is planning on looking thru the company handbook and talking to the supervisor of the department about whether this is actually company policy or something the manager is making everyone do.

Once we have that answer then we can start thinking about what we want to do. 

Coke did not call.  My best guess is it was a random generated email that goes out to all applicants, it doesn't mean you actually get called the wording was rather confusing.

 

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jan 25, 2016 10:57:17 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

3:15 am to leave our house, sorry.  We live in Council Bluffs and the OS plant is out in Papillion.

He'd get into work around 3:45 am.    Then he is expected to get dressed for work while off the clock.  It takes about 25 minutes to get dressed.   Then he needs to get down to the other side of the plant and THEN he clocks in at exactly 4:30 and not a minute before/after.

Yes he is expected to get in that early, dress and walk down to the other side of the plant all unpaid.

Yes it is illegal.  Tyson got sued for it while DH was working there and the employees won.  The DOL dictates you're on the clock if the company requires you change into company provided/required gear then you are considered on the clock and must be paid.

DH is planning on looking thru the company handbook and talking to the supervisor of the department about whether this is actually company policy or something the manager is making everyone do.

Once we have that answer then we can start thinking about what we want to do. 

Coke did not call.  My best guess is it was a random generated email that goes out to all applicants, it doesn't mean you actually get called the wording was rather confusing.

 

I think amazon won a case at the us supreme court level about employees be in off the clock when they went through security checks at the end of their shifts. Within the last couple of years. Must be different rules for different types of employment.

[ArchietheDragon]

Jan 25, 2016 10:57:17 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

3:15 am to leave our house, sorry.  We live in Council Bluffs and the OS plant is out in Papillion.

He'd get into work around 3:45 am.    Then he is expected to get dressed for work while off the clock.  It takes about 25 minutes to get dressed.   Then he needs to get down to the other side of the plant and THEN he clocks in at exactly 4:30 and not a minute before/after.

Yes he is expected to get in that early, dress and walk down to the other side of the plant all unpaid.

Yes it is illegal.  Tyson got sued for it while DH was working there and the employees won.  The DOL dictates you're on the clock if you are being required to put on specialized gear during that time frame.

DH is planning on looking thru the company handbook and talking to the supervisor of the department about whether this is actually company policy or something the manager is making everyone do.

Then we can make a better informed decision. 

 

Some reading to help you become better informed, even though it sounds like you already know the issue.


www.dol.gov/whd/FieldBulletins/AdvisoryMemo2006_2.htm


www.startribune.com/gold-n-plump-don-and-doff-suit-settled-for-1-2-million/15682432/


ehstoday.com/news/ehs_imp_37887