Nazgul Girl
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Babysitting our new grandbaby 3 days a week !
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Sept 23, 2014 21:36:00 GMT -5
No, just no. No employer ever thought 'We can't hire them, they are too intelligent and think too fast" Never...never ever ever. Optimist, if you exude that you of the opinion that you're "intelligent" and " think fast " your interviews, it lets the interviewers know that you consider ( or seem to ) yourself above them. Since they're in the position of power and you're the applicant ( in the olden days, the supplicant ), you would be better off to exude calm, affability, and knowledge of your field. I think you'd have more success in your interviews if you exhibited a little bit of humbleness. JMHO.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Sept 23, 2014 21:39:07 GMT -5
@empressspunkles- Nordstroms is headquartered here, so if I got a job with them, it would be an office job. But they still want someone with retail experience. laterbloomer- yes and no. While I officially hired the student I did because I felt she would be the best fit for our team, I did take into account, I shouldn't say anyone's intelligence, but, in some sense, yes, I did take into account how smart the students thought they were/presented themselves. One young man we interviewed had a goal to be an MD/PhD researcher. In a sense, it would have been nice for him to work for us to give him an idea of all the administrative work that goes into grant applications. But he had never used a copier before (the job I was hiring for was basically, copying, scanning papers to .pdfs using the copier, and courier service around campus), and it seemed obvious that he would want to spend his time reading the science of the grants we were processing, not doing the work we needed him to do. I also felt he would get bored very quickly, and we were looking for someone who would stay in the role for a couple of years. In the end, I chose my student employee based on the right fit for the role and with the team. But you could easily argue that this young man did not get the job because he was "too smart" for it, or at least presented himself as if he would feel "too smart" for it, and yes, that matters. At the same time, you read the job description- really, my ten year old (at the time, she's now 11) could have done the job once she learned the campus, so just about anyone would be "too smart" for it. It was more about attitude. And yes, in my experience, people who feel they are "too smart" for a job, or feel superiorily smarter than the people interviewing them, do not get the job. And the argument could always be made that it was because they were "too smart".
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 23, 2014 21:41:46 GMT -5
Woo Hoo! Just had a good phone interview for the 7 to 8 week job in Iowa.
Now to sow the ground at work for a temp leave of absence if it comes through.
Thanks all.
Turns out today was not a good day to talk to the administrator or our regional person. I might know as early as this weekend whether I got the job.
Then I have some planning to do, like drive or fly and who to care for my water dragon for a couple months. One plus is I will be within a few hours of my family.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 21:46:59 GMT -5
shanendoah no, you did not pass over that guy because he was too smart. You passed over him because he wouldn't do the work you needed. As you said, it was all about the attitude. I am absolutely sure you would have hired that bright young man, and he would have gotten some valuable experience that would have gotten him closer to his goals, if he was smart enough to reassure you that he could master a photocopier in under 5 minutes and would be more than happy to contribute to the team. You are trying to be much nicer than I am willing to be. Optimist knows she is making people uncomfortable, now she has to fess up to what is really going on. Or not. And she can stay un and under employed for more years to come. Because whatever she is doing to make them uncomfortable, it's not about being too smart.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 23, 2014 21:52:00 GMT -5
You are wrong sweetie.
While sometimes with lack of sleep and being sick I come off badly here, it is not my natural state and I rarely interview when I am that sick. But interesting computer chair analysis. You have no idea how I appear in real life or not. Remember over 90% of communication is non-verbal.
You are making some unkind assumptions based on less than 10% of the information my interviewers get. Also, I just ended a temp job in Princeton where the owner of the bookstore ran out in the hallway to make sure she said goodbye to me before I left at the end of my shift. Wonder why she did that, given *you* have concluded I make people uncomfortable?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 23, 2014 21:58:48 GMT -5
BTW, you are making me uncomfortable and mad, Later.
I'm sure I'll get over it, but damn, just because the stars are out of alignment is no reason to be mean.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 21:59:31 GMT -5
You said you make people uncomfortable. Are you changing your story now?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 23, 2014 22:06:31 GMT -5
You were wise enough not to hire him because he wouldn't be a good fit. Because he'd be more interested in what the job gave him access to instead of doing the work you needed him to do.
It really has nothing to do with smartness or not. It hopefully had more to do with the fact he would not be the employee you needed him to be. Whether he would have been bored or not, stayed two years or not, is a judgment call. But should have been secondary to the fact you felt he'd be spending time reading the grants that were processed instead of doing the job.
(FWIW, I have worked 3 1/2 years as a PT receptionist at the same facility. I did not expect to be there this long, but I do my job first, and other stuff second. )
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 23, 2014 22:07:32 GMT -5
You said you make people uncomfortable. Are you changing your story now? Find it, post it.
I certainly would not mean it, the way you are implying it.
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Sept 23, 2014 22:53:38 GMT -5
@empressspunkles, you did not sell out. You're working what we call a 'taxi' job that will pay the bills. And a great one at that! Opti, interviews are a two way street. One side is whether they would be comfortable with you, the other is whether you would be comfortable with them. If it didn't happen, maybe you're better off without it
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Sept 24, 2014 0:14:39 GMT -5
@empressspunkles, you did not sell out. You're working what we call a 'taxi' job that will pay the bills. And a great one at that!
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 24, 2014 3:39:08 GMT -5
@empressspunkles, you did not sell out. You're working what we call a 'taxi' job that will pay the bills. And a great one at that! =='[ \\\\\\\\\\Opti, interviews are a two way street. One side is whether they would be comfortable with you, the other is whether you would be comfortable with them. If it didn't happen, maybe you're better off without it Ombud, its hard to feel that way when I am burning through retirement money to pay my rent. If you work and have worked for years, you are used to working with people you don't adore.
I live in central NJ. The amount social services deems I should pay for rent could only be achieved by obtaining section 8 status. I have less than a years worth of money to burn through.* My sense of humor is currently shot because of some 300lb+ asshole is parking in my neighbor's parking spot which I have formally requested. It appears her parking skills may be as bad as my former male neighbor, rest his literal soul, as her small car looks like she Effed up the driver's side(by my car!) pretty badly. Takes some talent with a small car to do that IMO.
I will work on refinding my sense of humor and belief in the universe. I have Star 99.1 playing both at home and in my car, because it is positive music. * If somehow I win the lottery/land a richer man than I/ get a decent job in time/find a Neil McCaffrey White Collar living situation; that thankfully will no longer matter.
I do appreciate the kind post.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 24, 2014 3:41:41 GMT -5
Empress, congrats on what you did find, and here's to finding what you really want in the future...
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Sept 24, 2014 5:43:24 GMT -5
Optimist - several people here have taken the time to give you honest feedback based on a years-long impression of you. We have told you our thoughts on why we think you might be having trouble. We could be wrong, but given that several of us are saying the same thing, it might be worth a listen.
You are asking for ways to.possibly improve your interviewing skills and many of us have suggested some things to think about. You believe in listening to what the universe tells you - listening to us.might be worth a try as well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 8:09:51 GMT -5
You said you make people uncomfortable. Are you changing your story now? Find it, post it.
I certainly would not mean it, the way you are implying it.
I did post it
That's when I said
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Sept 24, 2014 8:15:37 GMT -5
You are wrong sweetie.
While sometimes with lack of sleep and being sick I come off badly here, it is not my natural state and I rarely interview when I am that sick.
I'm afraid that your 'sometimes' is much, much more often than you realize. Perhaps it's a good idea to listen to what the people around you are telling you they get from your conversations, rather than what you personally feel you exude. It matters not how you feel you come off in an interview. It only matters what people are picking up from it. You asked for interviewing tips, but you're quick to reject any response you feel isn't correct. So, the question becomes, how's your current system working out for you? Why not consider new ideas?
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Sept 24, 2014 8:20:50 GMT -5
You are making some unkind assumptions based on less than 10% of the information my interviewers get. Also, I just ended a temp job in Princeton where the owner of the bookstore ran out in the hallway to make sure she said goodbye to me before I left at the end of my shift. Wonder why she did that, given *you* have concluded I make people uncomfortable?
Also, this. It does NOT surprise me that you are a good fit at an independent bookstore. From what I have noticed of you online and my own experience working in an independent bookstore, you seem like the type of person who would get on well there. But the problem is that often, the type of people who get along in independent bookstores are often not the same type of people who get along well in a corporate environment - or may not present themselves as those type of people. So just because you got along in one environment at one point doesn't mean you get along in all environments. Just because you don't make one person uncomfortable does not mean that you don't make others of a different type uncomfortable.
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Works4me
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Someone responded to your personal ad - a German Shepherd named Tara wants to have you for dinner...
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Post by Works4me on Sept 24, 2014 8:33:33 GMT -5
Optimist - it took me a long time to learn this but when when I try to present myself as something other than what I truly am, it never goes well. All I can figure out is that either I come off as fake and/or I land myself in a spot that I am not well suited for. I do not mean to pile on you but I agree with what others have said about you not coming off as an easy person to deal with - you probably do not realize that your frustration can come off as arrogance and even as a superiority complex. One of the hardest things for me to do when I am down and in a difficult situation is to listen to others but the ability to graciously and thankfully accept and apply constructive criticism can be a tremendous asset.
Shannendoah - just a thought but have you had a trusted friend check your references? Several years ago, a friend of mine was getting interviews up to the final round yet was never the one hired - it turned out one of his references was not a positive recommendation. Also, could it have something to do with the way your last job turned out? Something like that happened to me one time and even though HR was singing my praises, the hiring managers at the company were reluctant to take me on - I interviewed well but just the fact that I was leaving my department after 6 months left a bad impression. HR told me afterward that it was not personal and that situations like that are almost impossible to work past within the same organization.
This is just food for thought - take it or leave it as you see fit. Good luck to all of you and congratulations to Empress!
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Sept 24, 2014 8:40:53 GMT -5
I would guess that as a self-selected group, most of the posters here are well above average in terms of intelligence. Therefore, I don't think the "people are uncomfortable because I think so much faster than they do" really flies here. We have plenty of quick thinkers, and plenty of very smart people. Yet everyone who has commented on your situation has indicated that you often come across as scattered or "out there." That's not a coincidence. Despite the intelligence of YM posters, I think nearly everyone has trouble following your posts.
You have to ask, what's the common denominator? Are we all slow thinkers? Are we jealous of your intellect? Or is the way you're presenting yourself (online and IRL) turning others off?
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Sept 24, 2014 9:46:05 GMT -5
Ombud, its hard to feel that way when I am burning through retirement money to pay my rent. If you work and have worked for years, you are used to working with people you don't adore. I live in central NJ. The amount social services deems I should pay for rent could only be achieved by obtaining section 8 status. I have less than a years worth of money to burn through.* My sense of humor is currently shot because of some 300lb+ asshole is parking in my neighbor's parking spot which I have formally requested. It appears her parking skills may be as bad as my former male neighbor, rest his literal soul, as her small car looks like she Effed up the driver's side(by my car!) pretty badly. Takes some talent with a small car to do that IMO. I will work on refinding my sense of humor and belief in the universe. I have Star 99.1 playing both at home and in my because it is positive music. * If somehow I win the lottery/land a richer man than I/ get a decent job in time/find a Neil McCaffrey White Collar living situation; that thankfully will no longer matter. I do appreciate the kind post. I'm pulling for you but lost on the thread. BOTTOM LINE: have you utilized a PRO NET group to review either your resume (format's change since I interviewed in 2008) or interview style?
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Sept 24, 2014 9:51:55 GMT -5
@empressspunkles, you did not sell out. You're working what we call a 'taxi' job that will pay the bills. And a great one at that! =='[ \\\\\\\\\\Opti, interviews are a two way street. One side is whether they would be comfortable with you, the other is whether you would be comfortable with them. If it didn't happen, maybe you're better off without it Ombud, its hard to feel that way when I am burning through retirement money to pay my rent. If you work and have worked for years, you are used to working with people you don't adore.
I live in central NJ. The amount social services deems I should pay for rent could only be achieved by obtaining section 8 status. I have less than a years worth of money to burn through.* My sense of humor is currently shot because of some 300lb+ asshole is parking in my neighbor's parking spot which I have formally requested. It appears her parking skills may be as bad as my former male neighbor, rest his literal soul, as her small car looks like she Effed up the driver's side(by my car!) pretty badly. Takes some talent with a small car to do that IMO.
As I recall, you're preparing for a temporary assignment in Iowa for a couple of months? Have you given any thought to staying in IA rather than returning to NJ? I can't imagine that the cost of living isn't lower in IA than in NJ? Just an idea.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Sept 24, 2014 10:52:58 GMT -5
Yet everyone who has commented on your situation has indicated that you often come across as scattered or "out there." That's not a coincidence. Despite the intelligence of YM posters, I think nearly everyone has trouble following your posts.
Exactly. I don't mean to pile on (I don't think anyone currently posting does) - this is truly meant as constructive feedback to help you secure the results you want.
Most of us have blind spots and since you asked for help, we're trying to help you identify what most of us see as a couple of yours.
I don't think there's any sense in beating a dead horse - if you don't believe that coming across as hard to follow and/or out there and/or arrogant might possibly be issues for you, then okay. But I did think it was worth noting again that the feedback you've received has all been very polite and phrased constructively. I get that it sucks to hear, but wouldn't you rather hear it from us online when you can click away than from some overly honest interviewer to your face someday?
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Sept 24, 2014 13:58:28 GMT -5
Works4me - good thought (much like ArchietheDragon's was about the blogs) and advice I would give myself. I had my references checked by a staffing agency this summer, and everything came back good. Also, everyone I use as a reference, I asked if I could use as a reference, so they never should have been surprised.
For the BSA position, I would very much not be surprised if I am choice #2. And this is partly because this would be a career shift for me. I have been involved in this type of work as the business owner, but never as the analyst whose job it was to make everything match up. They were supposed to get back to me by COB yesterday and did not, so I'll be sending a quick check in note to the HR person as soon as I finish typing this response.
Data analyst phone interview this morning- it was with a healthcare recruiter. The position wants someone who is really strong is SQL. I am not (and won't pretend to be). I have taught myself SQL basics, but I have never worked with it. She did like my background and wants to keep me in mind in case she gets something else she thinks might be a fit for me.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Sept 24, 2014 14:59:21 GMT -5
BSA update: The HR person had a family emergency and is on her way to the east coast. New timeline is know by end of week.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 14:59:45 GMT -5
Crap!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 24, 2014 15:06:33 GMT -5
On the other hand, you still have a chance at the job.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Sept 24, 2014 19:16:27 GMT -5
Yes, it means I still have a chance at the job. It also makes the timeline match up more nicely with the Director of Operations and the Administrator positions, once again, giving me more choice options.
I am currently working on my proposal for the business problem presented by the Dir Ops position and hope to get it emailed in tonight or tomorrow morning.
It's also kind of nice because I am sick this week. Not so sick that I wouldn't go into work if I were working, but sick enough that it's nice not to have to do anything. I was concerned I had strep throat, but it turns out that no, I have a viral infection in my throat- think of it like having cold sores lining my throat- painful, but not really contagious to those I might work with.
Of course, all of this going on has made it harder to have the desire to apply for positions. I applied for one on Monday and had a phone interview today. The contact I have had on both the BSA and Dir Ops positions probably counts, but to be on the safe side, I should get at least one more application in. I do have 4 job postings sitting open in my browser; I just haven't really had the mental energy to apply.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 24, 2014 19:36:10 GMT -5
Yet everyone who has commented on your situation has indicated that you often come across as scattered or "out there." That's not a coincidence. Despite the intelligence of YM posters, I think nearly everyone has trouble following your posts.
Exactly. I don't mean to pile on (I don't think anyone currently posting does) - this is truly meant as constructive feedback to help you secure the results you want. Most of us have blind spots and since you asked for help, we're trying to help you identify what most of us see as a couple of yours. I don't think there's any sense in beating a dead horse - if you don't believe that coming across as hard to follow and/or out there and/or arrogant might possibly be issues for you, then okay. But I did think it was worth noting again that the feedback you've received has all been very polite and phrased constructively. I get that it sucks to hear, but wouldn't you rather hear it from us online when you can click away than from some overly honest interviewer to your face someday? I'm exhausted and not sleeping more than 4 to 5 hours a night right now.
Its not constructive criticism if I already know it. If I can't blow of steam by indulging in my tired wordiness here, where am I supposed to do it?
Again, I rarely do this at interviews or even work. I am having a sense of , but I guess I am a great target to be picked on .
Bye.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Sept 24, 2014 20:17:01 GMT -5
I don't find you make me uncomfortable at all, Opti. I'm not bothered much by those who proclaim themselves of greater intelligence, or "quicker of thought" than I. It certainly wouldn't have any bearing on whether I hired a person, or not. I'd be looking at skills, job history and performance, affability, flexibility, and reliability. I think that's what most are looking for when hiring.
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Rocky Mtn Saver
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Post by Rocky Mtn Saver on Sept 25, 2014 8:27:43 GMT -5
Yet everyone who has commented on your situation has indicated that you often come across as scattered or "out there." That's not a coincidence. Despite the intelligence of YM posters, I think nearly everyone has trouble following your posts.
Exactly. I don't mean to pile on (I don't think anyone currently posting does) - this is truly meant as constructive feedback to help you secure the results you want. Most of us have blind spots and since you asked for help, we're trying to help you identify what most of us see as a couple of yours. I don't think there's any sense in beating a dead horse - if you don't believe that coming across as hard to follow and/or out there and/or arrogant might possibly be issues for you, then okay. But I did think it was worth noting again that the feedback you've received has all been very polite and phrased constructively. I get that it sucks to hear, but wouldn't you rather hear it from us online when you can click away than from some overly honest interviewer to your face someday? I'm exhausted and not sleeping more than 4 to 5 hours a night right now.
Its not constructive criticism if I already know it. If I can't blow of steam by indulging in my tired wordiness here, where am I supposed to do it?
Again, I rarely do this at interviews or even work. I am having a sense of , but I guess I am a great target to be picked on .
Bye.
'Wordiness' was not what people were trying to help you with. How you phrase things and the attitude you project, were. Unfortunately, that's not what you seem to be understanding from this conversation. I think that's too bad, because it might have been some very helpful feedback.
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