Is it dismissal time yet?

[bartman72]

I’ve been working a salaried position this past year for a small, private company.

I am expected to work longer hours than everyone else in the department, and I can’t go home without being dismissed. I wasn’t told about this until after I started, and then only verbally. I know being salaried opens one up to long hours, but something seems off. Everyone else seems to come and go as they please, and I’m no longer the new person. I had a good review and there was no discussion about my not getting work done on time.

Of course, I’m looking around. When I’ve interviewed, it’s been early in the morning, and then I come up with BS reasons for coming in late. I cite medical reasons since they’re generally not questioned, but no more than once every 2 weeks is my rule. More than that, and I’d worry about them getting suspicious. Could they legally request a doctor’s note or any other proof of my visit?

I’ll live, but still, work weeks full of 12 hour days aren’t my cup of tea. I actually think they like me, which is strange. I don’t see that they’re deliberately sticking it to me, they’re just strange people. During the interview, I did sell myself as single with no responsibilities, and maybe they took that to heart.

Any thoughts are appreciated, thanks.

[gregintenn]

Have you presented this to the people you work for?

[Tennesseer]

Jan 21, 2016 19:31:49 GMT -5 bartman72 said:

I’ve been working a salaried position this past year for a small, private company.

I am expected to work longer hours than everyone else in the department, and I can’t go home without being dismissed. I wasn’t told about this until after I started, and then only verbally. I know being salaried opens one up to long hours, but something seems off. Everyone else seems to come and go as they please, and I’m no longer the new person. I had a good review and there was no discussion about my not getting work done on time.

Of course, I’m looking around. When I’ve interviewed, it’s been early in the morning, and then I come up with BS reasons for coming in late. I cite medical reasons since they’re generally not questioned, but no more than once every 2 weeks is my rule. More than that, and I’d worry about them getting suspicious. Could they legally request a doctor’s note or any other proof of my visit?

I’ll live, but still, work weeks full of 12 hour days aren’t my cup of tea. I actually think they like me, which is strange. I don’t see that they’re deliberately sticking it to me, they’re just strange people. During the interview, I did sell myself as single with no responsibilities, and maybe they took that to heart.

Any thoughts are appreciated, thanks.

Let's say you did the highlighted for one complete calendar year. That would be 26 tardies/absences. If you were a manager, would you be suspicious?

Have you sat down with your supervisor and asked him/her why you seem to have to work longer hours than everyone else? Or are they hourly and you are salaried.

[Tiny]

I am expected to work longer hours than everyone else in the department, and I can’t go home without being dismissed.

I'm curious about the being dismissed for the day part... are you supporting/assisting/working in tandem with someone who's also working 12 hour days (or in another time zone or on a different shift)?

Is there a valid reason for your long hours versus the rest of your department that are part of your job responsibilities?

Have you discussed the long hours you are working with your boss? You may need to find a tactful way to do it. I'm not good at that.  

If the long hours are year round - versus based on some "event" at work - like "year end" or 'busy season" or whatever - I'd most certainly find a way to ask for a raise - a substantial one... if you are salaried and expected to work 60 plus hours work weeks year round, you should be paid for the time/personal toll it takes. 

If you are working long hours because it takes you long hours to complete your work... you may need to re-evaluate HOW you are doing your work and what's good enough.   Unfortunatelly, I have a few perfectionist friends who don't have a firm grasp of "what's good enough" - they will work long hours and even weekends accomplishing the 'busy work' part of their jobs because it 'getting the job done - means getting ALL of it done - perfectly".  They have a hard time focusing on the 20% of their job that's the actual important part - and spend the bulk of their time on 80% that's not so important.     Not saying you are doing this... but I wanted to throw that out there.

[Abby Normal]

Do you really have to wait until they tell you to go? Or are you still there and someone says "hey go home"

Is everyone else dismissed or just you?

[jitterbug]

Bartman, come back! I'm curious as to the answers to some of the questions asked!

[HoneyBBQ]

What happens if you just leave? (for the day)

[movingforward]

The being dismissed part if extremely weird especially for a salaried position.  I would just pack up my crap and leave for the day after 8-9 hours just to see what would happen.

[bartman72]

Jan 21, 2016 23:45:36 GMT -5 Abby Normal said:

Do you really have to wait until they tell you to go? Or are you still there and someone says "hey go home"

Yes, I literally have to stick around until my supervisor dismisses me.  The job I applied and interviewed for was accountant, but I feel more like my actual job is her personal assistant.  This manifests itself in other ways - I don't have a ton of regular duties; she'll bring me odd jobs, and a lot of them are simple excel type deals - like take these 12 worksheet tabs and consolidate them into one, that sort of thing.

[sarcasticgirl]

Jan 27, 2016 15:16:42 GMT -5 bartman72 said:

Jan 21, 2016 23:45:36 GMT -5 Abby Normal said:

Do you really have to wait until they tell you to go? Or are you still there and someone says "hey go home"

Yes, I literally have to stick around until my supervisor dismisses me.  The job I applied and interviewed for was accountant, but I feel more like my actual job is her personal assistant.  This manifests itself in other ways - I don't have a ton of regular duties; she'll bring me odd jobs, and a lot of them are simple excel type deals - like take these 12 worksheet tabs and consolidate them into one, that sort of thing.

This is the most insane thing I've heard. Have you spoken to anyone at your office about this? 

[bartman72]

Jan 27, 2016 14:41:43 GMT -5 movingforward said:

The being dismissed part if extremely weird especially for a salaried position.  I would just pack up my crap and leave for the day after 8-9 hours just to see what would happen.

And in my shoes, you would probably do just fine.  I have issues with being assertive - as a youth I would put up with things for far too long and eventually respond inappropriately.  Plus, I mentioned in a prior response that I feel like my supervisor's personal assistant.  The ridiculous hours, in a perverse way, are a form of job security in my mind.  That is to say there aren't a lot of accountants who would put up with this situation for any length of time.

[bartman72]

Jan 21, 2016 21:20:33 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jan 21, 2016 19:31:49 GMT -5 bartman72 said:

I’ve been working a salaried position this past year for a small, private company.

I am expected to work longer hours than everyone else in the department, and I can’t go home without being dismissed. I wasn’t told about this until after I started, and then only verbally. I know being salaried opens one up to long hours, but something seems off. Everyone else seems to come and go as they please, and I’m no longer the new person. I had a good review and there was no discussion about my not getting work done on time.

Of course, I’m looking around. When I’ve interviewed, it’s been early in the morning, and then I come up with BS reasons for coming in late. I cite medical reasons since they’re generally not questioned, but no more than once every 2 weeks is my rule. More than that, and I’d worry about them getting suspicious. Could they legally request a doctor’s note or any other proof of my visit?

I’ll live, but still, work weeks full of 12 hour days aren’t my cup of tea. I actually think they like me, which is strange. I don’t see that they’re deliberately sticking it to me, they’re just strange people. During the interview, I did sell myself as single with no responsibilities, and maybe they took that to heart.

Any thoughts are appreciated, thanks.

Let's say you did the highlighted for one complete calendar year. That would be 26 tardies/absences. If you were a manager, would you be suspicious?

Have you sat down with your supervisor and asked him/her why you seem to have to work longer hours than everyone else? Or are they hourly and you are salaried.

I hate to admit it, but I think you are right about 1 interview every 2 weeks being risky.

[mojothehelpermonkey]

Jan 27, 2016 15:22:01 GMT -5 sarcasticgirl said:

Jan 27, 2016 15:16:42 GMT -5 bartman72 said:

Yes, I literally have to stick around until my supervisor dismisses me.  The job I applied and interviewed for was accountant, but I feel more like my actual job is her personal assistant.  This manifests itself in other ways - I don't have a ton of regular duties; she'll bring me odd jobs, and a lot of them are simple excel type deals - like take these 12 worksheet tabs and consolidate them into one, that sort of thing.

This is the most insane thing I've heard. Have you spoken to anyone at your office about this? 

It sounds like you have a nutty boss. I had a former boss who valued face time and obedience more than productivity. I was ready to leave after a year, but I started just standing up for myself and questioning certain rules. Things got a lot better after that. At the same time, this was 7 years ago, and I wasn't worried about being fired and replaced.

[mojothehelpermonkey]

Jan 21, 2016 19:31:49 GMT -5 bartman72 said:

I’ve been working a salaried position this past year for a small, private company.

I am expected to work longer hours than everyone else in the department, and I can’t go home without being dismissed. I wasn’t told about this until after I started, and then only verbally. I know being salaried opens one up to long hours, but something seems off. Everyone else seems to come and go as they please, and I’m no longer the new person. I had a good review and there was no discussion about my not getting work done on time.

Of course, I’m looking around. When I’ve interviewed, it’s been early in the morning, and then I come up with BS reasons for coming in late. I cite medical reasons since they’re generally not questioned, but no more than once every 2 weeks is my rule. More than that, and I’d worry about them getting suspicious. Could they legally request a doctor’s note or any other proof of my visit?

I’ll live, but still, work weeks full of 12 hour days aren’t my cup of tea. I actually think they like me, which is strange. I don’t see that they’re deliberately sticking it to me, they’re just strange people. During the interview, I did sell myself as single with no responsibilities, and maybe they took that to heart.

Any thoughts are appreciated, thanks.

Even if it is a BS reason, you should always give anyone who might notice that you are gone a heads up in advance.

[happyhoix]

Does anyone else work for this woman or are you the only one?

Some people have the idea that your work effort is directly related to the amount of time your ass is in your chair - even if you're doing nothing more than playing solitaire. I had one of those bosses - he bragged about coming in to work at 6 AM every day, and leaving no earlier than 7 PM at night. He expected his employees to work the same hours that he did, and if they attempted to work a regular 9 to 5 job, he considered them slackers.

At the same time, other employees working for other departments DID work regular 9 to 5 jobs.

So I'm curious if your boss is one of those who considers a 12 hour day proof of her dedication to her job, and if she expects you to show this same dedication - even if you don't have work to fill those hours with - because if you left on time it would demonstrate she had slacker employees?  

[bartman72]

Jan 27, 2016 14:18:34 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

What happens if you just leave? (for the day)

For the first month or so, I would arrive at 8am and leave anywhere between 5pm - 6:30pm, depending on what needed to be done.  Then once when I was getting ready to leave, my supervisor stopped me.  She said she needed to dismiss me during busy times, but that I could leave at 5pm during the rest of the month.  This in spite of other salaried folks at my level coming and going as they please (to my knowledge).  She was upset, so I didn't want to risk leaving on my own again, even during non-busy days.  When discussing with my friends/family, we've thrown it out there that maybe she wants someone there for personal security when it gets late.

[giramomma]

I turned a job down, that was actually in my field, because they couldn't accommodate my hours.

I wanted to stay until 5 or 6 a couple nights a week on the days I wasn't teaching, to make up for the hours I had to leave early (to teach.)

I was told that I could not work past 4:00, because after 4:00 no one would be around to watch me work.

I was a little flabbergasted at that, actually, that full time, salaried people had nothing else to do with their time than monitor my essentially entry level work.

[Deleted]

bartman72, can you simply say at the point where you want to go home, "I'm getting ready to leave shortly.  Is there something you need done before I do?"

That's sort of like asking to be dismissed but with a little more control over the situation.  If she's fair, she will tell you "Good night" when she doesn't need you or "Well, yes, I need you to consolidate these spreadsheets first."  It will give her the power, etc. that she seems to need, but you won't be wasting your time waiting for her to act.

[bartman72]

Jan 27, 2016 15:44:46 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Does anyone else work for this woman or are you the only one?

Some people have the idea that your work effort is directly related to the amount of time your ass is in your chair - even if you're doing nothing more than playing solitaire. I had one of those bosses - he bragged about coming in to work at 6 AM every day, and leaving no earlier than 7 PM at night. He expected his employees to work the same hours that he did, and if they attempted to work a regular 9 to 5 job, he considered them slackers.

At the same time, other employees working for other departments DID work regular 9 to 5 jobs.

So I'm curious if your boss is one of those who considers a 12 hour day proof of her dedication to her job, and if she expects you to show this same dedication - even if you don't have work to fill those hours with - because if you left on time it would demonstrate she had slacker employees?  

Happyhoix, are you working in the next cube over?  Seriously, you just nailed the culture of this place.  Here it is virtuous to stay late, and that was one of the big positives in my review.  And yes, I have waited around with absolutely nothing to do. She has about 7-8 people total reporting to her, but most are hourly. 

[bartman72]

Jan 27, 2016 15:41:04 GMT -5 mojothehelpermonkey said:

Jan 21, 2016 19:31:49 GMT -5 bartman72 said:

I’ve been working a salaried position this past year for a small, private company.

I am expected to work longer hours than everyone else in the department, and I can’t go home without being dismissed. I wasn’t told about this until after I started, and then only verbally. I know being salaried opens one up to long hours, but something seems off. Everyone else seems to come and go as they please, and I’m no longer the new person. I had a good review and there was no discussion about my not getting work done on time.

Of course, I’m looking around. When I’ve interviewed, it’s been early in the morning, and then I come up with BS reasons for coming in late. I cite medical reasons since they’re generally not questioned, but no more than once every 2 weeks is my rule. More than that, and I’d worry about them getting suspicious. Could they legally request a doctor’s note or any other proof of my visit?

I’ll live, but still, work weeks full of 12 hour days aren’t my cup of tea. I actually think they like me, which is strange. I don’t see that they’re deliberately sticking it to me, they’re just strange people. During the interview, I did sell myself as single with no responsibilities, and maybe they took that to heart.

Any thoughts are appreciated, thanks.

Even if it is a BS reason, you should always give anyone who might notice that you are gone a heads up in advance.

My bolded comment was misleading, sorry. I leave a VM for my supervisor when I know for sure she won't be in yet on the morning of my tardiness. Family/friends tell me I do NOT want to actually speak with her.

[mojothehelpermonkey]

That sucks. I had an academic position when I had that bad boss, so I had a lot more job security. Maybe you can start just casually asking why you have to ask to leave.

[movingforward]

bartman72, can you simply say at the point where you want to go home, "I'm getting ready to leave shortly. Is there something you need done before I do?"

This is an excellent suggestion

[bartman72]

Jan 27, 2016 15:55:25 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

bartman72 , can you simply say at the point where you want to go home, "I'm getting ready to leave shortly.  Is there something you need done before I do?"

That's sort of like asking to be dismissed but with a little more control over the situation.  If she's fair, she will tell you "Good night" when she doesn't need you or "Well, yes, I need you to consolidate these spreadsheets first."  It will give her the power, etc. that she seems to need, but you won't be wasting your time waiting for her to act.

Once we had wrapped something up at what would be a decent quitting time, and I tried what you suggested.  You would have thought I had asked for a huge raise.  She let me go, but grudgingly, to where I didn't want to go through it again.  The power to dismiss me holds some kind of meaning for her.

[movingforward]

Jan 27, 2016 16:36:42 GMT -5 bartman72 said:

Jan 27, 2016 15:55:25 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

bartman72 , can you simply say at the point where you want to go home, "I'm getting ready to leave shortly.  Is there something you need done before I do?"

That's sort of like asking to be dismissed but with a little more control over the situation.  If she's fair, she will tell you "Good night" when she doesn't need you or "Well, yes, I need you to consolidate these spreadsheets first."  It will give her the power, etc. that she seems to need, but you won't be wasting your time waiting for her to act.

Once we had wrapped something up at what would be a decent quitting time, and I tried what you suggested.  You would have thought I had asked for a huge raise.  She let me go, but grudgingly, to where I didn't want to go through it again.  The power to dismiss me holds some kind of meaning for her.

The woman has major issues.  I am glad you are looking for another position but you really need to start asserting yourself more. 

[flamingo]

I once had a boss tell me that even though my hours were 9-5, because I was salaried I was expected to stay late. Like her. Meaning, even if my work was done (which it almost always was), I needed to hang around to show that I was serious about my job or something. And, on days that I needed to leave ON TIME, I had to ask special permission. Now, she wasn't just doing this to me; all the salaried folks were treated like this, but it was still annoying. AND, the only reason she stayed late was because she couldn't get there by 9 every morning and she spent more time chatting with her friends around the office than actually working from 9-5. 

It was awful. At one point, I sent her an email asking her to please explain to me what my actual hours were. Because I was hired 9-5 and we were the only department that had this rule and if she was significantly changing my hours, I was going to have to seriously consider asking for a raise or looking for another job. That pissed her right off, but damn if it didn't fix the problem. And, after that, I used a PP suggestion of saying, about 4:50pm every day-hey, I'll be wrapping up shortly, is there anything else you needed from me that can't wait until morning? And I did it from OUTSIDE her office so she couldn't suck me into a 30 minute conversation. 

I will add that while my hours are 9-5, I don't work JUST 9-5. I am in the office (then and now) by 8:30 most days and don't leave until well after 5 most nights. I also don't take an hour lunch most days (even though I that job and the one I have now are actually 35 hour a week jobs because we get an "unpaid" lunch). So, it's not like I'm taking advantage of the system. Plus, in my job, I work quite a lot of after hours work with events on and off site, so the needing to stay until she thought I'd been there long enough was annoying.

[Tiny]

Jan 27, 2016 15:23:55 GMT -5 bartman72 said:

Jan 27, 2016 14:41:43 GMT -5 movingforward said:

The being dismissed part if extremely weird especially for a salaried position.  I would just pack up my crap and leave for the day after 8-9 hours just to see what would happen.

And in my shoes, you would probably do just fine.  I have issues with being assertive - as a youth I would put up with things for far too long and eventually respond inappropriately.  Plus, I mentioned in a prior response that I feel like my supervisor's personal assistant.  The ridiculous hours, in a perverse way, are a form of job security in my mind.  That is to say there aren't a lot of accountants who would put up with this situation for any length of time.

I'm gonna be harsh here - you need to re-write the script in your head. It's NOT job security -it's getting stuck in a Dead End job.   In the short term it is giving you possibly valuable "skills" or "knowledge" - but stay more than a few years and you're behind - both skill wise AND salary wise - and you will be exhausted and possibly thinking that you won't be able to find another job (the devil you know is better than the devil you don't).    It's also putting in a lot of hours (and missing out on life events)  for maybe not enough compensation AND it's potentially holding you back from doing other things with your life or your career.

I am of course, assuming you are young-ish and that you aren't being 'groomed' to step into your boss' shoes within the next year or two OR that you are old and planning to leave the workforce in the next couple of years and this 'secure' job is lining your pockets/setting you up for a better retirement in some way.  

FWIW:  I've witnessed a couple of accountants (always women) suffer thru what became more than 10 years of horribly long hours - crappy pay - and general doormat status at work - all the while feeling like they were being 'loyal' and that it would one day pay off... they also felt they had 'job security'  - after all who else could do their job as well as they did (all the hours)?      One got laid off - her department was downsized and she did get transferred but she and the new manager had a lot of clashes (the new manager wanted someone who could think on their feet - not just take orders.)    One also became jobless when her manager moved to another position - my friend tried for the open management position but didn't get it - the company 'cleaned house' and revamped her department - and there was no place for my friend. 

My advice - look hard at what YOU want for the long term and DON"T get trapped.

[Tiny]

Jan 27, 2016 16:36:42 GMT -5 bartman72 said:

Jan 27, 2016 15:55:25 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

bartman72 , can you simply say at the point where you want to go home, "I'm getting ready to leave shortly.  Is there something you need done before I do?"

That's sort of like asking to be dismissed but with a little more control over the situation.  If she's fair, she will tell you "Good night" when she doesn't need you or "Well, yes, I need you to consolidate these spreadsheets first."  It will give her the power, etc. that she seems to need, but you won't be wasting your time waiting for her to act.

Once we had wrapped something up at what would be a decent quitting time, and I tried what you suggested.  You would have thought I had asked for a huge raise.  She let me go, but grudgingly, to where I didn't want to go through it again.  The power to dismiss me holds some kind of meaning for her.

I assume your boss is working just as long or longer hours than you are?

I worked for the Bitch Manager from Hell... she would religiously came in at 8:00am and left at 5:05pm every weekday.  She never came into the office on the weekends.   This was not the problem.    She expected her staff to be at their desks working at 8:00am and we couldn't leave before 5:30pm - in fact if we were leaving at 5:30pm we had to clear it with her before hand.   She also expected us to work the weekends - on next to no warning.    She would often contrive situations to enforce this work ethic.   She'd hand down a 5 or 6 hour assignment that  "must be done by 8:00am tomorrow" at 4:45pm  (oddly enough if you requested to leave at 5:30pm on a particular day - you could pretty much be assured that some "hot project" would land on your desk between 4:30 and 4:45pm.      She would notoriously drop 'busy work' on our desks early in the week - and then come Friday morning - we'd get "Oh, jeez we're behind schedule - you all will have to work this weekend to make up the short fall".        That woman was pure Evil.

I'm hoping you don't have a  Bitch/Bastard Manager from Hell   if you do - I would NOT give up your job search.  This person is Toxic.  ESCAPE as soon as possible.     

[violagirl]

Why would you put up with that as an accountant? There are so many accounting jobs out there. When I got out of school I briefly worked for a place that was like that. Every second accounted for. There was no trust. Owner freaked out because I didn't turn my laptop off, just left it in sleep mode one night. In the 3 months I was there they never did get me an email address. I used my predecessors address and then had to explain to people that no, I was not JQ Accountant. It was ridiculous.  

I took the job knowing I had an interview coming up at another place, but the interview for the other place kept being pushed back, so I figured a job was better than no job. At first I thought I could handle it for the summer knowing I had something coming up that I was likely to get. But at the 2 week mark, I was actively interviewing at other places. You should have seen her face when I gave my notice. 

You need to work for someone under the age of 40. They are the only people that don't care if you leave at 5 as long as your work is done. Now that also means if you need to stay until 10pm to get it done, then you do, but for the most part think of others and don't shirk your responsibility and it's all good. 

I will say that I entered the workforce a little later and I am not the sole provider in my house so I did have a different perspective and could quit if required. I work best with almost complete autonomy, which is why I like public accounting even if it means I have to work longer hours. I have been told I can be a bit intimidating and I apparently have a "Just try it bitch!" face that I use which makes bullies back down quickly. I had a partner once mistake my quietness for being a pushover. It only happened once. I'd suggest you practice the "Go ahead punk - make my day" face. I dont' have to practice because everything I think shows on my face - fortunately or unfortunately I guess. 

[chen35]

This just seems like a really weird situation. I am in accounting, and I tell my people to just get their work done. There are a few days a year (maybe 12, or one per month) where I expect them to be there until 5:30 or 6:00, just due to the work that HAS to get done that day. If it gets done earlier they can leave. 

Just out of curiosity, about how much is your salary?

[happyhoix]

Jan 27, 2016 16:10:56 GMT -5 bartman72 said:

Jan 27, 2016 15:44:46 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Does anyone else work for this woman or are you the only one?

Some people have the idea that your work effort is directly related to the amount of time your ass is in your chair - even if you're doing nothing more than playing solitaire. I had one of those bosses - he bragged about coming in to work at 6 AM every day, and leaving no earlier than 7 PM at night. He expected his employees to work the same hours that he did, and if they attempted to work a regular 9 to 5 job, he considered them slackers.

At the same time, other employees working for other departments DID work regular 9 to 5 jobs.

So I'm curious if your boss is one of those who considers a 12 hour day proof of her dedication to her job, and if she expects you to show this same dedication - even if you don't have work to fill those hours with - because if you left on time it would demonstrate she had slacker employees?  

Happyhoix, are you working in the next cube over?  Seriously, you just nailed the culture of this place.  Here it is virtuous to stay late, and that was one of the big positives in my review.  And yes, I have waited around with absolutely nothing to do. She has about 7-8 people total reporting to her, but most are hourly. 

Great, you've got one of THOSE bosses.

The guy we had was the first there and the last to leave and kept track of when his employees came and went, to make sure they worked nearly as much as he did. Of course, he had no kids and a distant relationship with his wife (there were rumors he was sleeping with one of the admin women at work). He had nothing BUT work. Since he'd been at this same company since he was a stock boy at 16, he felt like it was 'his' company.  When they finally MADE him retire (he was 69, and had to be pried out of his office chair) he immediately went to work as a 'consultant' with two other companies. Which was probably good, because he was one of those guys who, if he had actually retired, would have gone home and died in about six months.

All you can do is find a different job. Most bosses aren't like this - one of my favorite bosses once told me if you aren't ready to leave work at 5 you aren't doing your job right. Another favorite boss liked to say that no one was so important that the company wouldn't run without them. Find one of those kinds of bosses ASAP. The poor woman you work for will always think she has to prove her worth by being the last one there at night, and making all her employees stay there, too.