billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 16, 2016 16:43:19 GMT -5
He headed back from the holiday break to the forced final few months of a ten year experience. He is looking at the end of childhood and realizing on some level he will soon have to deal with the next phase of his life. And he is showing behavior issues. Hmmm. I do think he's worried about high school. The plan was to send him to the private school in town, but at the rate he's going he won't get in, plus I'm not sure I want to send him somewhere that can just kick him out. So the behavior he is engaging in might stop your ability to send him to private school. Does he know about your plan and how his behavior might have an impact on it?
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whoami
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Post by whoami on Feb 16, 2016 16:43:42 GMT -5
You're describing all the symptoms of ADHD. Dr's will tell you that it's not an inability to focus - it's variable focus. So you can dive deep into an interesting topic or project and not surface for hours or you can't pay attention to the boring stuff in the classroom. People with ADHD also tend to take comments very personally. It's never "You did a bad job on that project." It's "You are a bad person." ADHD affects the way you process emotion and store memories. Painful ones can seem like they happened a moment ago even if they happened years ago. So - not saying your son has ADHD but nothing you are saying is contrary to that. I completely agree....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 16:49:02 GMT -5
I do think he's worried about high school. The plan was to send him to the private school in town, but at the rate he's going he won't get in, plus I'm not sure I want to send him somewhere that can just kick him out. So the behavior he is engaging in might stop your ability to send him to private school. Does he know about your plan and how his behavior might have an impact on it? He knows. He hears about it EVERY DAY. But, he actually prefers the private school to the public. It's only 300 students compared to 1300 and he's really worried about going to the bigger school. The charter he is at is only 300 students in Pre-K through 8th. 8th grade only has 9 kids.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 16:50:30 GMT -5
ADD freaks me out a little...actually medicating does. Ex's psychotic break was believed to be partly due to Adderal.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 16, 2016 16:53:44 GMT -5
Your ex may have been misdiagnosed. Adderal can make other mental health issues worse.
If you do want to explore ADD and medicating make sure you take your son to a licensed psychiatrist. All they do is diagnose and prescribe medication.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 16:59:35 GMT -5
Does he feel like he can control his behavior? Low self-esteem can be caused by not being able to control your own actions even when the consequences are bad. He usually says he will (act better) but then he doesn't and he's upset and said he doesn't know what's wrong with him. The reason I'm thinking not ADD is because it's so situational. He only is obnoxious and annoying (for the most part) around peers. He transforms into a different person if you put him in a room with just adults. It's almost more like anxiety wanting to fit in.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 17:02:00 GMT -5
So, my son is now on the radar of social services. He's been getting in trouble increasingly at school with his annoying, obnoxious behavior. School and myself have both been upping the punishment and severity, but now in his anger when he gets in trouble he's started saying things like he wishes he was dead which has of course got all kinds of attention. It's happening Every. Single. Day. and I just don't know what to do anymore. This last month has been exhausting. They called again today. Gymnastics unit in phy-ed (guaranteed issue). Teacher let him sit out, but he was causing problems distracting people or something...not sure and the teacher was going to write him a Map ticket (minor), but because it's Sam, it's now an instant escalation to office referral. He was irate and got another day of in-school suspension. The principal says she's so worried about him because he seems convinced everyone hates him. I just don't get it. He acts in a way that everyone doesn't like, gets bad reaction and continues to do that. They're giving me the paperwork to have a mental health worker come in and work with him during the day. I just don't know what to do with him anymore. I haven't read everything yet, but is this also the kid with the potential food issues if I remember correctly? Has his diet changed significantly lately?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 16, 2016 17:02:01 GMT -5
So the behavior he is engaging in might stop your ability to send him to private school. Does he know about your plan and how his behavior might have an impact on it? He knows. He hears about it EVERY DAY. But, he actually prefers the private school to the public. It's only 300 students compared to 1300 and he's really worried about going to the bigger school. The charter he is at is only 300 students in Pre-K through 8th. 8th grade only has 9 kids. I assume "he actually prefers" comes from the words he says to you. From what you have said, his behavior says the opposite. If his words are true, then his behavior is truly out of his control.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 17:05:01 GMT -5
MPL - is he on medication? Does it need to be adjusted? Puberty? Is he having a bout of SAD? (I ask because I'm ADD and waaay less functional in the winter). Have you tried fish oil? Sounds hippy but something like 10% of the brain is made of fats and there's some evidence that Omega 3's can improve behavior and concentration. edited: is he getting enough sleep? DS completely loses the ability to control himself when he misses just an hour or two. Good stuff here!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 17:05:01 GMT -5
So, my son is now on the radar of social services. He's been getting in trouble increasingly at school with his annoying, obnoxious behavior. School and myself have both been upping the punishment and severity, but now in his anger when he gets in trouble he's started saying things like he wishes he was dead which has of course got all kinds of attention. It's happening Every. Single. Day. and I just don't know what to do anymore. This last month has been exhausting. They called again today. Gymnastics unit in phy-ed (guaranteed issue). Teacher let him sit out, but he was causing problems distracting people or something...not sure and the teacher was going to write him a Map ticket (minor), but because it's Sam, it's now an instant escalation to office referral. He was irate and got another day of in-school suspension. The principal says she's so worried about him because he seems convinced everyone hates him. I just don't get it. He acts in a way that everyone doesn't like, gets bad reaction and continues to do that. They're giving me the paperwork to have a mental health worker come in and work with him during the day. I just don't know what to do with him anymore. I haven't read everything yet, but is this also the kid with the potential food issues if I remember correctly? Has his diet changed significantly lately? If by food issues you mean he ate a lot of junk then yes, that's him. He's been changing things but nothing drastic. Less milk, more water, less carbs for breakfast, more eggs...
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 16, 2016 17:09:01 GMT -5
ADD freaks me out a little...actually medicating does. Ex's psychotic break was believed to be partly due to Adderal. I'm not a doctor and I don't know your ex personally, so I'm not at all trying to diagnose or disagree with a diagnosis. Just a couple of things to think about:
1) Your oldest son and the psychotic ex (I'll call him X2) don't share genes. There is strong evidence that predisposition to certain types of mental health issues are genetically linked - but this is not an issue here because your son has totally different genes than X2. Son is unlikely to have issues X2 did.
2) X2 has multiple issues; multiple issues make diagnosis and treatment very difficult. If he was misdiagnosed and was taking Adderall without actually having ADHD, that could cause some severe issues. So part of X2's problems could have been a result of misdiagnosis and taking the wrong meds.
3) X2 has an addictive personality. He went from one addition to another. It's very possible (probable even) that he was addicted to Adderall and taking much more than the recommended dose. Huge problem and increased risk.
4) X2 was mixing all sorts of drugs. Huge problem and increased risk.
None of these things would apply to your son if you are careful in how you handle this. I'm not at all saying that your son should be on Adderall, just pointing out that even if (and it's a big IF) Adderall played a part in X2's issues, it's not remotely the same situation. And - God forbid - if your son were to try Adderall you as an adult and as a parent would be monitoring him. If he started to have any adverse reactions - and I'm sure X2 had plenty of signs before he imploded - you just stop the medication immediately and it's out of your son's system in less than a day. Unlike what would have been happening with X2 who was not self aware and probably kept taking all sorts of drugs while he spiraled downward.
Not saying you should do it or that you shouldn't be careful, just putting some different perspective out there.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 17:09:35 GMT -5
You don't have to go right to meds. And I'm not a big 'disorder' person. But just Knowing the common characteristics known as ADD and some of the behavioral mods uses... Could be help if applicable.
I feel like this set of characteristics also sometimes includes a propensity to say whatever pops into your head, which can make the social interactions more difficult.
How worried is he about changing schools. He might be REALLY worried. It's a huge change. Maybe some of this is underlying fear of that impending transition?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 17:10:31 GMT -5
MPL - is he on medication? Does it need to be adjusted? Puberty? Is he having a bout of SAD? (I ask because I'm ADD and waaay less functional in the winter). Have you tried fish oil? Sounds hippy but something like 10% of the brain is made of fats and there's some evidence that Omega 3's can improve behavior and concentration. edited: is he getting enough sleep? DS completely loses the ability to control himself when he misses just an hour or two. Missed this. Meds: no. Puberty: probably. Grew at least 5 inches the last year. SAD: Possibly. Fish Oil: He actually was taking that on his own (something ex started them on), but I don't think he has taken any for quite a while. I'll check to see if he's out. Sleep: I think he gets enough. He's normally in bed by 10pm and up at 6am. He's not allowed to have any electonics in his room so he's not staying up playing games or anything, but he'll read. He has a fitbit that tracks his sleep and he does wake up around 3am a lot, but nothing horrible.
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whoami
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Post by whoami on Feb 16, 2016 17:18:23 GMT -5
ADD freaks me out a little...actually medicating does. Ex's psychotic break was believed to be partly due to Adderal. I'm not a doctor and I don't know your ex personally, so I'm not at all trying to diagnose or disagree with a diagnosis. Just a couple of things to think about:
1) Your oldest son and the psychotic ex (I'll call him X2) don't share genes. There is strong evidence that predisposition to certain types of mental health issues are genetically linked - but this is not an issue here because your son has totally different genes than X2. Son is unlikely to have issues X2 did.
2) X2 has multiple issues; multiple issues make diagnosis and treatment very difficult. If he was misdiagnosed and was taking Adderall without actually having ADHD, that could cause some severe issues. So part of X2's problems could have been a result of misdiagnosis and taking the wrong meds.
3) X2 has an addictive personality. He went from one addition to another. It's very possible (probable even) that he was addicted to Adderall and taking much more than the recommended dose. Huge problem and increased risk.
4) X2 was mixing all sorts of drugs. Huge problem and increased risk.
None of these things would apply to your son if you are careful in how you handle this. I'm not at all saying that your son should be on Adderall, just pointing out that even if (and it's a big IF) Adderall played a part in X2's issues, it's not remotely the same situation. And - God forbid - if your son were to try Adderall you as an adult and as a parent would be monitoring him. If he started to have any adverse reactions - and I'm sure X2 had plenty of signs before he imploded - you just stop the medication immediately and it's out of your son's system in less than a day. Unlike what would have been happening with X2 who was not self aware and probably kept taking all sorts of drugs while he spiraled downward.
Not saying you should do it or that you should be careful, just putting some different perspective out there.
There are also a number of meds to treat it that arent Adderal. Mine takes a very low dose of generic methylphenidate. It is a narcotic stimulant. There are meds that are not narcotics that you can try. IME, it really does work pretty much immediately (as far as knowing whether its going to get the agitation under control) You may have to adjust the dosing but you will know pretty quickly if its going to be helpful.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 16, 2016 17:31:33 GMT -5
I take both generic Adderal and now Lexapro. My doctor was a pharmacist before he went to med school. I'm doing well with both.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 18:04:32 GMT -5
MPL, if your son is saying that he wishes he were dead, it's time to seek professional help with his self esteem issues and try to get to the root cause of his behavior. His behavior could be caused by an unknown medical issue or it could be that he needs to learn how to improve his social skills or find something positive that makes him feel good about himself. It could be lots of things, get somebody to help you figure it out and help him.
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Feb 16, 2016 18:07:02 GMT -5
Is this the same boy who was eating ginormous amounts of food, like three bowls of cereal, toast, eggs, bacon, etc, in the morning, then announcing that he is 'hungry' an hour after lunch?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 16, 2016 18:32:58 GMT -5
Is this the same boy who was eating ginormous amounts of food, like three bowls of cereal, toast, eggs, bacon, etc, in the morning, then announcing that he is 'hungry' an hour after lunch? Yes
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 16, 2016 18:54:22 GMT -5
OMG, minnesotapaintlady, I'm so sorry. What a horrible experience for all of you! I'd say your first order of business is to get an appointment with a psychiatrist for a full psychiatric evaluation. What kind of behaviors is he exhibiting and are they behaviors he's exhibited in the past but has just escalated recently, or are they entirely new behaviors? Is he problematic at home as well as at school? Are there any specific situations in which you notice the behavioral aberrations to be more likely?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 16, 2016 18:57:40 GMT -5
ADD freaks me out a little...actually medicating does. Ex's psychotic break was believed to be partly due to Adderal. The actions of Adderal when used by an adult are very different than those of the same drug when used by a child. Better not to conflate the two. Also, if this is the last XH, he was known to abuse. Adderal abuse can have very serious consequences.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 19:03:50 GMT -5
I picked him up today and he acted like nothing had happened. I think he was hoping I didn't hear anything about it. We have to rush between work and Scouts several nights a week, so he made supper for his brother while I did barn chores. He swears up and down that he never said anything about wanting to die today, that he was just mumbling under his breath about the sociology assignment they were going to have him do while in the office and "now every time I say something under my breath they think I'm threatening suicide!"
Regardless, they don't mess around. Family Services contacted us last week and they are sending a case worker out to the house tomorrow to talk with me on a weekly basis. Also tomorrow they're giving me forms to fill out to get a mental health worker to come and talk with him during school hours. Sam apparently told them that "we didn't have any money" to go somewhere on our own. Swell.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 19:07:46 GMT -5
ADD freaks me out a little...actually medicating does. Ex's psychotic break was believed to be partly due to Adderal. The actions of Adderal when used by an adult are very different than those of the same drug when used by a child. Better not to conflate the two. It's not so much that I'm afraid of him having the exact same outcome, it's more just that my entire experience with mental health meds has been through ex and the nightmare that was. The constant switching, the side effects, the addictions, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 19:13:31 GMT -5
OMG, minnesotapaintlady , I'm so sorry. What a horrible experience for all of you! I'd say your first order of business is to get an appointment with a psychiatrist for a full psychiatric evaluation. What kind of behaviors is he exhibiting and are they behaviors he's exhibited in the past but has just escalated recently, or are they entirely new behaviors? Is he problematic at home as well as at school? Are there any specific situations in which you notice the behavioral aberrations to be more likely? Same behavior as before only escalating. Today was somersault day with the phy-ed instructor he can't stand. DS said Mr. E was insisting he do one and stressing him out, so he became disruptive (yelling, off task). I seriously am so sick of this damn somersault deal. Can we not just accept he can't do one and leave him be. I'm not justifying his behavior, I chewed him out for quite a while about it, but come on...it's been TEN years of trying to force him to do one. It's mostly just where there are other kids his age. Even just one. He had a friend over this past summer for the weekend and I about wanted to kill him a couple times.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 16, 2016 19:15:23 GMT -5
The actions of Adderal when used by an adult are very different than those of the same drug when used by a child. Better not to conflate the two. It's not so much that I'm afraid of him having the exact same outcome, it's more just that my entire experience with mental health meds has been through ex and the nightmare that was. The constant switching, the side effects, the addictions, etc. I do understand. However, keep reminding yourself the ex was a proven abuser. Your son hasn't shown that to be his case and they're not related genetically. Meds may not be required but, if they are, they can be very useful. It's just important that he see a psychiatrist and not just a general practitioner. A psychiatrist experienced in treating teens is the best choice as they're aware of which medications work best for this population.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 16, 2016 19:20:08 GMT -5
OMG, minnesotapaintlady , I'm so sorry. What a horrible experience for all of you! I'd say your first order of business is to get an appointment with a psychiatrist for a full psychiatric evaluation. What kind of behaviors is he exhibiting and are they behaviors he's exhibited in the past but has just escalated recently, or are they entirely new behaviors? Is he problematic at home as well as at school? Are there any specific situations in which you notice the behavioral aberrations to be more likely? Same behavior as before only escalating. Today was somersault day with the phy-ed instructor he can't stand. DS said Mr. E was insisting he do one and stressing him out, so he became disruptive (yelling, off task). I seriously am so sick of this damn somersault deal. Can we not just accept he can't do one and leave him be. I'm not justifying his behavior, I chewed him out for quite a while about it, but come on...it's been TEN years of trying to force him to do one. It's mostly just where there are other kids his age. Even just one. He had a friend over this past summer for the weekend and I about wanted to kill him a couple times. I really agree that being able to complete a somersault isn't going to add anything to his life. I'd be all up in the phys ed teacher's face about that one, and on to administration if necessary. There's absolutely no sense in pressing a kid to do something he cannot do. Sounds to me like a power play and I don't take well to those. Somehow, kids his age are seen as a threat, from the sounds of it. That's just a guess, though. With the lack of self-esteem, he may feel he can't measure up no matter what he does and is going to be subject to ridicule. That would make the requirement to complete the stupid somersault an even bigger hurdle for him. That needs to stop. NOW.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 16, 2016 19:37:29 GMT -5
Same behavior as before only escalating. Today was somersault day with the phy-ed instructor he can't stand. DS said Mr. E was insisting he do one and stressing him out, so he became disruptive (yelling, off task). I seriously am so sick of this damn somersault deal. Can we not just accept he can't do one and leave him be. I'm not justifying his behavior, I chewed him out for quite a while about it, but come on...it's been TEN years of trying to force him to do one. It's mostly just where there are other kids his age. Even just one. He had a friend over this past summer for the weekend and I about wanted to kill him a couple times. I really agree that being able to complete a somersault isn't going to add anything to his life. I'd be all up in the phys ed teacher's face about that one, and on to administration if necessary. There's absolutely no sense in pressing a kid to do something he cannot do. Sounds to me like a power play and I don't take well to those. Somehow, kids his age are seen as a threat, from the sounds of it. That's just a guess, though. With the lack of self-esteem, he may feel he can't measure up no matter what he does and is going to be subject to ridicule. That would make the requirement to complete the stupid somersault an even bigger hurdle for him. That needs to stop. NOW. On one side, I agree with this. Parents always need to advocate for their kid if they're put into a situation that's causing unnecessary harm.
On the other side, since it looks like you're going to be consulting with some mental health professionals, you might want to wait a little bit before making any big changes and before asking the school to make any big changes. The MH professional may have a different take on this (like one that says you don't want to "reward" and encourage Sam's behavior by getting him out of a class he doesn't like) or may agree with you but have a different suggestion on what and how to do. You don't want to exhaust your capital with the school too soon and make it harder to make needed changes later. In other words, wait to see what the MH professional recommends and work with the school to make any needed changes then rather than make a stink now and then have to go back and make another stink a couple of weeks from now for something different or even opposite to what you just made the prior stink over.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 16, 2016 19:49:53 GMT -5
Should probably clarify more on that last post.
I'm guessing that you're probably going to need to work together with the school to address this, no matter what the cause turns out to be. You're going to need the school to make changes, adjustments and generally do PITA (for them) things. This works better if you have a good relationship with the school. That doesn't mean being a pushover and not having things corrected, but it does mean picking and choosing both battles and timing. If the school starts to perceive you as a parent that makes random demands - especially if you want them to do it one way now and then ask for it to be done a different way two weeks later - they may be less cooperative and willing to work with you. You want and need their cooperation so be careful and thoughtful about what you ask for and when you ask for it. Since you're about to get some professional advice, you might want to pause on timing of requests for change since you'll probably be making more (and they might be very different than what you just asked for) in a few weeks.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 16, 2016 19:57:17 GMT -5
A somersault? The thing where you put your head on the ground and roll over frontward ?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 19:59:22 GMT -5
I wouldn't be doing well with a gym teacher trying to make me do a 'baby' thing I can't do in front of other people. Sorry, as an adult I wouldn't put myself in that position. I'd walk out the door. I don't think kids/ teens should be forced to perform, with better behavior than us, in situations we would consider untenable. Just my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2016 20:02:43 GMT -5
I really agree that being able to complete a somersault isn't going to add anything to his life. I'd be all up in the phys ed teacher's face about that one, and on to administration if necessary. There's absolutely no sense in pressing a kid to do something he cannot do. Sounds to me like a power play and I don't take well to those. Somehow, kids his age are seen as a threat, from the sounds of it. That's just a guess, though. With the lack of self-esteem, he may feel he can't measure up no matter what he does and is going to be subject to ridicule. That would make the requirement to complete the stupid somersault an even bigger hurdle for him. That needs to stop. NOW. On one side, I agree with this. Parents always need to advocate for their kid if they're put into a situation that's causing unnecessary harm.
On the other side, since it looks like you're going to be consulting with some mental health professionals, you might want to wait a little bit before making any big changes and before asking the school to make any big changes. The MH professional may have a different take on this (like one that says you don't want to "reward" and encourage Sam's behavior by getting him out of a class he doesn't like) or may agree with you but have a different suggestion on what and how to do. You don't want to exhaust your capital with the school too soon and make it harder to make needed changes later. In other words, wait to see what the MH professional recommends and work with the school to make any needed changes then rather than make a stink now and then have to go back and make another stink a couple of weeks from now for something different or even opposite to what you just made the prior stink over.
I don't think the somersault thing requires a ruckus. If the ability to do a somersault affects his grade, tell the teacher to grade accordingly and it's ok to encourage him to try to do it, but stop harassing the kid about somersaults. Then you handle the consequences for the lower grade if there is one. Personally, If the kids has honestly been trying to learn how to do somersaults for TEN years and still hasn't gotten it, I wouldn't hound him about the lower grade if he got one for the inability. Yelling at his teacher and disrupting class would be a bigger issue for me than not wanting to embarrass himself trying to do somersaults he's been trying to learn to do since Jaws was a goldfish.
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