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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 11:11:24 GMT -5
My entire life I thought my Dad just walked out on us and he never told me any different no matter what I accused him of. I was ok with that, but I just recently found out from an aunt that's not how it went. My parents were married and my Dad was drafted just a few weeks before I was born. When his time in the Army was up he came home (I was about two). I guess he was all ready to settle down with his family. Well, I guess my Mom wasn't one who liked being alone and had moved on while he was gone. He tells me he thought at the time it would be easier on me if he was just gone, but that he regrets that decision very much. It says a lot about his character that he never said anything that might have turned you against your mother. I'm glad you and the extended family have such a wonderful relationship with him now.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 5, 2016 11:24:39 GMT -5
that sucks MPL but I'm glad your story had a happy ending. My parents split when I was 6-7. I used to see my dad every weekend for a while, then it became every other. Now I recall that I did all the calling and planning. When I got older and stopped calling as much, he didn't reciprocate. Long story short, he is one of the laziest people I have ever known - if not the laziest. Anything that required any real effort from him is just too much. He has two teen sons that he does nothing with even though they live with him and his wife, and his wife is complaining to my mom about how lazy he is!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 11:29:52 GMT -5
Sometimes I wonder how things would have been different had I had the upbringing my half siblings did, but I don't know that I would change anything. My Mom wasn't the best wife or Mom, but I had a pretty great childhood anyhow due to awesome Aunts and hoards of cousins. The guilt thing is working for my kid's advantage and I'm cool with that.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jan 5, 2016 11:35:51 GMT -5
I think it can be hard to know what to do. And I'm sure back then the children belong with their mother mentality was alive and well.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Jan 5, 2016 11:54:56 GMT -5
I have a good friend who's ex-husband moved to another state when their daughter was 4. He hasn't seen or talked to his daughter since then (she's 10). He pays child support because his pay check is garnished, but I am sure he's someone who bitches about the child support. I believe he's remarried and has another family now. My friends daughter has done well, and now really wants a dad, but she doesn't care about her biological dad.
i have another friend who knocked up his girlfriend when he was 18. He didn't see the kid for the first years of his life, but tried to reestablish a relationship with his son when his son was about 4. By that time the mom had moved on and remarried and asked my friend to allow her husband to adopt his son. He gave up his rights and never paid child support, but did stay in contact with the mother. When his son was in college, his son reached out and they got to know each other. I think that worked out because everyone recognises the adoptive dad as the kids dad (including my friend). It probably also helps that he didn't have other kids so there wasn't assumption that he was willing to raise and love other kids, but not his son.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jan 5, 2016 12:12:35 GMT -5
My wife has a cousin that has kids with multiple women and lives with none. He sees his kids pretty regularly and to some extent takes care of them but to me is just an odd situation. I was just kidding the other day talking to my son that his moms cousin has three kids with four women One would wonder: ok, you have a kid with this girl, it didn't work, you move on. Meet second girl, have a kid with that one too, it doesn't work. Do you think that you should go looking for a third one and have a kid with?Most people would think not but then "there are those!" One of my friend's husbands has two kids with two different women. It is very, very hard for me to keep my mouth shut when my friend starts complaining about child support. Apparently when he was out of work before they met, he stopped paying CS for both kids (despite a very low obligation that IMO could be met on unemployment alone) and is now dealing with IRS garnishments. Friend is understandably annoyed at having had her tax refund intercepted for the last few years, although she seems to be more upset at the women who are actually raising her stepchildren than the dumbass who decided to stop paying court-ordered child support. But friend wants to get pregnant (this is her first marriage, no bio kids). Third time is the charm, right?
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jan 5, 2016 12:20:42 GMT -5
My wife has a cousin that has kids with multiple women and lives with none. He sees his kids pretty regularly and to some extent takes care of them but to me is just an odd situation. I was just kidding the other day talking to my son that his moms cousin has three kids with four women One would wonder: ok, you have a kid with this girl, it didn't work, you move on. Meet second girl, have a kid with that one too, it doesn't work. Do you think that you should go looking for a third one and have a kid with?Most people would think not but then "there are those!" One of my friend's husbands has two kids with two different women. It is very, very hard for me to keep my mouth shut when my friend starts complaining about child support. Apparently when he was out of work before they met, he stopped paying CS for both kids (despite a very low obligation that IMO could be met on unemployment alone) and is now dealing with IRS garnishments. Friend is understandably annoyed at having had her tax refund intercepted for the last few years, although she seems to be more upset at the women who are actually raising her stepchildren than the dumbass who decided to stop paying court-ordered child support. But friend wants to get pregnant (this is her first marriage, no bio kids). Third time is the charm, right? I don't understand women who want to have children or actually have anything to do with men who don't take care of prior children. And I'm being very generous in my definition of take care. There could be some albeit limited reasons they may not see the kid(s) a lot but they should pay!! As my stepmom beat into my head leopards don't change their spots.
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Post by mojothehelpermonkey on Jan 5, 2016 12:28:34 GMT -5
I don't see how people can think that someone is a suitable mate knowing they have a child or children that they don't give a damn about. Having a baby is not a part of my future so I'm not looking for a man that I think would be a good father to any children I might have, but I am still completely uninterested in a man that has no concern for his minor child or children and doesn't even try to make sure they're ok. I briefly dated a man that had a young daughter. When I realized that he never mentioned having her with him I started asking questions. It turned out that he rarely saw her or did anything for her. That was a major issue for me even though it wasn't my child. I just can't respect a man that can put his time, energy and money into dating me but he ignores his own child. He couldn't even really come up with a reason to try to justify why he thought it was ok to ignore her, he just wasn't interested in trying to be a good father to her. Well I'm not interested in deadbeat dads, so that was the end of that. I don't want kids, but it was still a huge turn off to me when a guy that I went on a date with years ago seemed to want a pat on the back for being a good dad because he paid child support and called her once a month. I didn't even bother getting to know him well enough to find out why he didn't live closer or visit more often. I just couldn't get past the fact that his preteen daughter lived in the same time zone, yet he could only manage to call her once a month, but he was still trying to sell himself as an involved parent. I dated a different guy for a while who was raising his daughter on his own. He was a good parent, and even though I don't want to have kids myself, I still found that really attractive.
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lexxy703
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Post by lexxy703 on Jan 5, 2016 12:30:37 GMT -5
I don't see how people can think that someone is a suitable mate knowing they have a child or children that they don't give a damn about. Having a baby is not a part of my future so I'm not looking for a man that I think would be a good father to any children I might have, but I am still completely uninterested in a man that has no concern for his minor child or children and doesn't even try to make sure they're ok. I briefly dated a man that had a young daughter. When I realized that he never mentioned having her with him I started asking questions. It turned out that he rarely saw her or did anything for her. That was a major issue for me even though it wasn't my child. I just can't respect a man that can put his time, energy and money into dating me but he ignores his own child. He couldn't even really come up with a reason to try to justify why he thought it was ok to ignore her, he just wasn't interested in trying to be a good father to her. Well I'm not interested in deadbeat dads, so that was the end of that. I don't want kids, but it was still a huge turn off to me when a guy that I went on a date with years ago seemed to want a pat on the back for being a good dad because he paid child support and called her once a month. I didn't even bother getting to know him well enough to find out why he didn't live closer or visit more often. I just couldn't get past the fact that his preteen daughter lived in the same time zone, yet he could only manage to call her once a month, but he was still trying to sell himself as an involved parent. I dated a different guy for a while who was raising his daughter on his own. He was a good parent, and even though I don't want to have kids myself, I still found that really attractive. I could not respect a man who didn't take care of his kids.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jan 5, 2016 12:40:33 GMT -5
I know I'd never want to be with anyone who didn't consider their children to be important enough to support, at the very least. I'd prefer he have a relationship with them too. Don't put the kids in the middle of the adult problems/use them to to 'get back at' the ex.
If someone gave me that sob story and I knew about all the other stuff, I would totally call them out on it and tell them straight up what an ass they were. But that's just me.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jan 5, 2016 13:05:13 GMT -5
A lot of these parents do have a sob story about why they are not involved with their kids - usually, the evil manipulative x - and a lot of women believe it when it is the guy! Some even have more kids with the guy - and then 5-10 years down the road, they find out the other side of that story, to their sorrow. I have not been acquainted with any women who bailed, and then had a second family, not saying it couldn't be, but I haven't seen that. In some cases, the guys do stick with the second family. Maybe they have improved, vowed to do better with the younger family but don't have the guts to face their previous sins and make amends because they find that too difficult? My grandma on mom's side did just that. Can't remember how many kids she had with husband #2. And she straight up abandoned them. Like my aunt went to the house one day and found my mom and uncle all alone with no sign of mom. Cost grandpa $5k in the 60s to track her down, divorce her and get custody. My mom's second husband was older so they didn't have any kids.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jan 5, 2016 15:35:38 GMT -5
My wife has a cousin that has kids with multiple women and lives with none. He sees his kids pretty regularly and to some extent takes care of them but to me is just an odd situation. I was just kidding the other day talking to my son that his moms cousin has three kids with four women One would wonder: ok, you have a kid with this girl, it didn't work, you move on. Meet second girl, have a kid with that one too, it doesn't work. Do you think that you should go looking for a third one and have a kid with?Most people would think not but then "there are those!" One of my friend's husbands has two kids with two different women. It is very, very hard for me to keep my mouth shut when my friend starts complaining about child support. Apparently when he was out of work before they met, he stopped paying CS for both kids (despite a very low obligation that IMO could be met on unemployment alone) and is now dealing with IRS garnishments. Friend is understandably annoyed at having had her tax refund intercepted for the last few years, although she seems to be more upset at the women who are actually raising her stepchildren than the dumbass who decided to stop paying court-ordered child support. But friend wants to get pregnant (this is her first marriage, no bio kids). Third time is the charm, right? Your friend needs to file the innocent or injured spouse form with their taxes (I forget which one). If she has a job, she will get HER part of the refund.
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quince
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Post by quince on Jan 5, 2016 15:58:03 GMT -5
I can understand why someone wouldn't be involved with their kid.
If both parents don't want the kid, they can give the kid up for adoption, never have to think about it again except perhaps providing medical histories later in life. This is fine, does not make them bad people- just people who know what they want, and what they want is not to raise the kid...and for moral or logistical reasons, they chose not to abort. Totally fine.
If ONE parent decides they want the kid, the other parent does not get to give it up for adoption. Best they can do other than suck it up and be a parent when they aren't ready is to pay child support and fuck off and live their life. Complaining about child support is gross, and that needs to stop, but otherwise, it is the best they can do.
Plenty of people who have given up kids for adoption/had abortions go on to have desired children later in life and become good parents. (Or, hell, are already good parents to existing children.) I see no reason a person who fathered/mothered a child that their partner in conception decided to keep should be any different.
I say this as someone whose bio-dad was NOT ready to be a father, was terrible at it, did not pay child support, blew off visitation, and finally faded away after making a scene signing paperwork for our stepdad to adopt us. Might have been easier if he just blew off visitation from the beginning and not tried(poorly) because that was expected. He wasn't a good father/spouse. Doesn't mean that he's an awful person in all other aspects of life. Doesn't mean that he couldn't have grown up a decade later and been a good father to someone else. (Spoiler: he didn't.)
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justme
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Post by justme on Jan 5, 2016 19:16:47 GMT -5
I don't consider giving a child up for adoption abandoning the kid or make them a bad person (save for the asshats whose kids are taken away then adopted).
I don't consider someone a bad person if they fully monetarily support their kid but no other contract (no back and forth). But I wouldn't want to date them personally because kids aren't off the table in my life and wouldn't want an uninvolved father and past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 5, 2016 19:38:51 GMT -5
My thing is this: a child isn't a credit card bill. It's a living breathing thing with needs and desires. If you aren't ready to be a parent, wrap it up/use BC/etc. Or get an abortion.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 20:07:45 GMT -5
My thing is this: a child isn't a credit card bill. It's a living breathing thing with needs and desires. If you aren't ready to be a parent, wrap it up/use BC/etc. Or get an abortion. I'll bet a lot of men wish they had the abortion option.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jan 5, 2016 20:18:26 GMT -5
It does take more than monetary support. On the other hand that's probably the best some can do. And I'd rather they just send a check than mess up the kids lives. I'd have reservations about someone who just paid but hell that's more than my mother did. I would have been better off if she'd paid and stayed gone but no she had to pop up every few months with another round of empty promises. At least if you pay you are trying to fulfill the obligation.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 5, 2016 21:07:34 GMT -5
My thing is this: a child isn't a credit card bill. It's a living breathing thing with needs and desires. If you aren't ready to be a parent, wrap it up/use BC/etc. Or get an abortion. I'll bet a lot of men wish they had the abortion option. But they do have the "wrap it" option. Why is male BC not a thing yet? It's 2016.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 22:20:15 GMT -5
I'll bet a lot of men wish they had the abortion option. But they do have the "wrap it" option. Why is male BC not a thing yet? It's 2016. Women have all kinds of BC options too, but it doesn't mean there isn't a drunk and stupid night or BC fails. If a few weeks later the EPT shows up positive and in a sober state they realize this is not the time or the guy to have a baby with they don't have to. Guy is stuck with whatever she wants. It isn't really fair...but not sure how to make it so.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jan 6, 2016 8:16:34 GMT -5
I knew a man who had a first child with a woman who kicked him out for being on drugs, she married and asked him to butt out and allow step dad to be the father so he did. He hated losing his son but it seemed best so he did. He cleaned up and married had two more kids he adored, then she divorced him for another man. His little kids were 4-5, he paid all the child support plus daycare he didn't need to pay. He lived with 3 roommates and no car but went by bus to get the kids weekends, took them to church. Then the first baby mama called and said stepdad wasn't good to his son since he had a bio kid and asked him to be his son's father again, he was thrilled to get his first born back.
I dated a man with children 12-14 he took them some weekends but never allowed them to meet women he dated. He was buying a car for the 14 year old to teach him auto repairs said he couldn't drive if he could repair the car so he had two years to get it running. His ex was moving out of state so last I heard from him he was trying to get custody. I assume he paid child support since he cared about them and had a good job.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 6, 2016 9:31:40 GMT -5
Why is male BC not a thing yet? It's 2016.
From what I have read the issue is the fact men produce sperm constantly. Women only ovulate once a month, it's a lot easier to interrupt a once a month egg drop.
The problem they are running into is where to interrupt the sperm's life cycle so it provides protection while using the birth control but doesn't render a guy permenately sterile.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Jan 6, 2016 9:53:33 GMT -5
I don't see how people can think that someone is a suitable mate knowing they have a child or children that they don't give a damn about. Having a baby is not a part of my future so I'm not looking for a man that I think would be a good father to any children I might have, but I am still completely uninterested in a man that has no concern for his minor child or children and doesn't even try to make sure they're ok. I briefly dated a man that had a young daughter. When I realized that he never mentioned having her with him I started asking questions. It turned out that he rarely saw her or did anything for her. That was a major issue for me even though it wasn't my child. I just can't respect a man that can put his time, energy and money into dating me but he ignores his own child. He couldn't even really come up with a reason to try to justify why he thought it was ok to ignore her, he just wasn't interested in trying to be a good father to her. Well I'm not interested in deadbeat dads, so that was the end of that. I am DH's trophy wife, LOL, (so NOT, LOL). (His first marriage was over before we met.) He has a daughter from that marriage. One of the reasons I was drawn to DH was his unwaivering commitment to his daughter -- even when she and her mother moved 9 hours away. Did it suck to pay child support until she was 23? Sure. Did it suck for him to make monthly long weekend visits or for the rest of us to get re-acquainted when she visited for holidays and summer vacations? At times. But, he did it because it was the right thing to do. He also fought hard and regularly to make certain that she was actually getting the benefit of that support. Some women aren't interested in men with children, but to reject a guy who is a father out of the box like that means you miss the guys who can demonstrate commitment to family.
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Post by mojothehelpermonkey on Jan 6, 2016 11:03:30 GMT -5
My dad never wanted to be a father before my brother was born. Apparently both my brother and me were the result of birth control failures. My parents were actually broken up at the time my brother was conceived. My mom wanted to keep him, and my dad's parents told him that he either needed to marry my mom or leave the area and never come back. It was the 70s, but it might as well have been the 50s considering my grandparents mindset. Their marriage lasted almost 15 years, and they were reasonably happy for most of it. My dad ended up being a very involved parent, and I lived with him after my parents got divorced. When I was in high school, my dad's girlfriend got pregnant and had an abortion. My dad wanted to keep that baby. However, he respected that his girlfriend was the one carrying the baby, so it was her decision. I understand how frustrating it must be for men to not have final say about what happens once the child is conceived. At the same time, based on personal experience and stories my friend's have told me, it can be a real uphill battle to try to get some men to take contraception (particularly condom use) seriously. I suspect that some of the losers who complain about child support are also the same guys who complain that condoms are uncomfortable.
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quince
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Post by quince on Jan 6, 2016 14:41:00 GMT -5
Vasalgel. Husband and I have been kind of excited about it for YEARS.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2016 18:55:08 GMT -5
That is what I tried to get a friend of mine to understand when he had a one night stand with an old friend turn into her coming out the blue to tell him she was 7 months pregnant with his baby. To say he was upset would be an understatement. He felt like he'd gotten railroaded into having a baby he didn't want, but my opinion was that he chose to take the risk when he had sex with her. It was a sad situation all around to me, but mostly I felt bad for the baby being born into those circumstances.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 6, 2016 18:59:57 GMT -5
Id demand a DNA test. Too many "one night stands" resulting in pregnancy for my belief.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 6, 2016 19:07:56 GMT -5
Then there is this case from a few years back which I believe is still ongoing. Kansas sperm donor fights back after state forces him to pay child supportTOPEKA (KSNT) – It’s probably one of the most bizarre Craigslist transaction, involving a lesbian couple desperate for a sperm donor, and a Topeka man willing to help. Little did he know that act of kindness would lead to a lengthy child support battle that continues to this day. Recently this controversial case led to a court ordered DNA test that revealed he is a father, “I’m the sperm donor, I’m not the father,” William Marotta said. Kansas sperm donor fights back after state forces him to pay child support
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2016 19:13:58 GMT -5
Id demand a DNA test. Too many "one night stands" resulting in pregnancy for my belief. I was kind of skeptical myself because it was a one night stand and the only women I've ever known that didn't realize they were pregnant until very late in the pregnancy (she told him she'd just found out) were very young. She was in her mind 30's. He had a DNA test and it was his baby. He still struggled for a long time to accept that he had a baby and not wanting the baby didn't make him feel good about himself because it conflicted with how he sees himself as a parent. He's always been a great father to the kids he has with his ex-wife. To give him credit though, even while he was very angry and resentful, he tried to do the right thing by the baby from the time she told him. He was financially supportive, was there when he was born and saw him at least once a week but the baby was almost a year old before he could get past his resentment enough to really start to bond with him.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 7, 2016 9:41:41 GMT -5
If a guy would wear a condom every time he wouldn't have to worry about "one night stand" pregnancies. That's what my mom drilled into my brother's head. She said NEVER take a woman's word for it that she is on birth control or taking it properly. She knows far too many women who were stupid with the pill and then couldn't figure out how they got pregnant. On the reverse side of it she drilled into to me to make sure I am on birth control and not just let the man be in control of pregnancy prevention. Men can be stupid with condoms too. Unless I am prepared to support a kid myself, double up. There is also the fact that condoms prevent STDs on that factor alone you should be using them if you're having a "one night stand".
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 7, 2016 11:20:10 GMT -5
Smart momma
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