AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 2, 2016 11:38:04 GMT -5
Id look for a less soul sucking job. Would you do this if you weren't married with another paycheck coming in? Great question. Granted- it's "your" inheritance, but blowing it on some whimsical idea (it hardly gets more whimsical than an art house and cafe) could lead to resentment down the road.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jan 2, 2016 12:45:21 GMT -5
Maybe a good gauge for determining if the business is viable is, would you go into it if you paid someone to run it? If not, then you're just trying to buy yourself a job.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jan 2, 2016 13:34:43 GMT -5
Disagree. Instead of looking for advice from people who have failed at business, OP needs to be listening to people who have built successful businesses. People who have failed at business can sometimes tell you what not to do, but that's not nearly as helpful as advice on what to do.
I don't completely agree with this. What not to do can be vastly more valuable than what to do. Not talking about negative people who can tell you 100 reasons it won't work, or you can't do it- but real experienced entrepreneurs who have worked out the kinks.
Dark fell into that trap as well. On the threads where he was contemplating starting a business, he tended to gloss over or ignore the successful business owners who were offering cautions or negative feedback, instead focusing at length on people he enjoyed talking to, people who always were positive and (most puzzling) a person who - although very articulate and enjoyable to read - had failed at a very similar business.
It can't hurt to hear the "what not to do" from people who failed, but you'll get much better quality advice from the people who were successful.
Not necessarily. A lot of successful people have mistaken luck for genius- myself included. Sometimes it isn't until you hit the wall that all of the sudden you see why what you were doing was really working, and why it's no longer working.
Dark's always interesting to read; he's funny and has a unique style so even if you don't take his business advice he's worth reading just because. But if you're really looking for actual business advice, get that from people who have run highly profitable businesses.
Unless a person is just reflexively and unnecessarily negative (or positive), all perspectives are worth listening to. Dark isn't exactly an "experienced entrepreneur who [has] worked out the kinks." When people come on the board to describe how their financial mismanagement has forced them into bankruptcy and now they can't even buy food, we don't call on them to offer financial planning advice for others. When people come on the board to describe how their mistakes have caused them to be fired from their job and they don't know how to get another, we don't call on them to tell others how to be successful at a job. We listen to their experience to offer some insight on what not to do, but that is a very different animal than calling on them to give advice on what to do. Listening to a perspective is very different than seeking out advice from someone.
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Post by mojothehelpermonkey on Jan 2, 2016 15:50:04 GMT -5
I haven't read the other responses yet. However, if you really hate your job, I think you would be better off investing most of the inheritance and putting the rest in an easily accessible "take this job an shove it" fund to cover expenses if you do decide to quit before you have something else lined up.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jan 2, 2016 22:54:11 GMT -5
Dark isn't exactly an "experienced entrepreneur who [has] worked out the kinks." When people come on the board to describe how their financial mismanagement has forced them into bankruptcy and now they can't even buy food, we don't call on them to offer financial planning advice for others. When people come on the board to describe how their mistakes have caused them to be fired from their job and they don't know how to get another, we don't call on them to tell others how to be successful at a job. We listen to their experience to offer some insight on what not to do, but that is a very different animal than calling on them to give advice on what to do. Listening to a perspective is very different than seeking out advice from someone. Not really. Advice comes in a lot of forms.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jan 3, 2016 10:43:53 GMT -5
Dark isn't exactly an "experienced entrepreneur who [has] worked out the kinks." When people come on the board to describe how their financial mismanagement has forced them into bankruptcy and now they can't even buy food, we don't call on them to offer financial planning advice for others. When people come on the board to describe how their mistakes have caused them to be fired from their job and they don't know how to get another, we don't call on them to tell others how to be successful at a job. We listen to their experience to offer some insight on what not to do, but that is a very different animal than calling on them to give advice on what to do. Listening to a perspective is very different than seeking out advice from someone. Not really. Advice comes in a lot of forms. OK, I'll be sure to let Loony know you're interested in hearing about her business expertise. She has been in business a lot longer than Dark was and it doesn't sound like she drained her family's retirement savings as well in the process of running her business into the ground.
Dark is a likeable guy. He's also enjoyable to read. That doesn't mean it's a good idea to ask him for business advice. But if you'd rather get advice from people you like rather than people who know what they're doing - be my guest.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jan 3, 2016 10:47:05 GMT -5
Not really. Advice comes in a lot of forms. OK, I'll be sure to let Loony know you're interested in hearing about her business expertise. She has been in business a lot longer than Dark was and it doesn't sound like she took out her family's retirement savings in the process of running her business.
Dark is a likeable guy. He's also enjoyable to read. That doesn't mean it's a good idea to ask him for business advice. But if you'd rather get advice from people you like rather than people who know what they're doing - be my guest.
You seem to want to project things into my words that I am not saying, so have at it. She can talk to whomever she wishes to talk to and my advice would be to talk to a lot of people and get a variety of perspectives. But, argue on.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jan 3, 2016 10:48:37 GMT -5
I don't think you should set up a business as a way to run away from something. You want to be going into business to run too something. And, things that sound like fun as business probably tend not to be all that profitable versus starting a business to clean out septic waste systems or something that probably is profitable.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jan 3, 2016 10:59:03 GMT -5
OK, I'll be sure to let Loony know you're interested in hearing about her business expertise. She has been in business a lot longer than Dark was and it doesn't sound like she took out her family's retirement savings in the process of running her business.
Dark is a likeable guy. He's also enjoyable to read. That doesn't mean it's a good idea to ask him for business advice. But if you'd rather get advice from people you like rather than people who know what they're doing - be my guest.
You seem to want to project things into my words that I am not saying, so have at it. She can talk to whomever she wishes to talk to and my advice would be to talk to a lot of people and get a variety of perspectives. I wasn't telling OP she couldn't (or shouldn't) talk to anybody. I was talking to the well meaning but misguided people - like you - that keep asking Dark for business advice... I was responding directly to your post where you were hoping Dark would come to the thread and offer advice.
The point isn't that the OP needs to block Dark and ignore anything he says. The point is that you aren't doing her any favors by actively seeking out and referring her to the advice of someone who doesn't have a clue how to run a business. If you can't understand why it's not smart to get business advice from someone who has only failed at business, then you'll just have to continue to be puzzled when the rest of us point that out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2016 11:04:23 GMT -5
I don't think anyone was suggesting Dark might offer business advice per say, just weigh in on the risk of taking a sure thing and betting it on a buiness in this manner...
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jan 3, 2016 11:28:26 GMT -5
You seem to want to project things into my words that I am not saying, so have at it. She can talk to whomever she wishes to talk to and my advice would be to talk to a lot of people and get a variety of perspectives. I wasn't telling OP she couldn't (or shouldn't) talk to anybody. I was talking to the well meaning but misguided people - like you - that keep asking Dark for business advice... I was responding directly to your post where you were hoping Dark would come to the thread and offer advice.
The point isn't that the OP needs to block Dark and ignore anything he says. The point is that you aren't doing her any favors by actively seeking out and referring her to the advice of someone who doesn't have a clue how to run a business. If you can't understand why it's not smart to get business advice from someone who has only failed at business, then you'll just have to continue to be puzzled when the rest of us point that out.
I have successfuly run two businesses, so how many have you run?
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jan 3, 2016 11:28:50 GMT -5
I don't think anyone was suggesting Dark might offer business advice per say, just weigh in on the risk of taking a sure thing and betting it on a buiness in this manner... That is what I thought also but meh what do I know! It was more in the sense : use Dark as your cautionary tale, he might be able to weigh in on how it would be bad to follow in his footsteps kind of vs Dark is Buffet Jr you should listen to him for advice. But like I said; what do I know!
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jan 3, 2016 11:31:57 GMT -5
Part of the problem with getting advice from the internet is that most people only want to talk about successes. I think there is a lot to be learned in failed attempts. You really see as many posts from people talking about their failures. Everyone online is thin, has fully funded EFs and on and on, lol. You don't hear so much about rental propety that turned out to be a nightmare or the bad investments, etc.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jan 3, 2016 11:35:44 GMT -5
I wasn't telling OP she couldn't (or shouldn't) talk to anybody. I was talking to the well meaning but misguided people - like you - that keep asking Dark for business advice... I was responding directly to your post where you were hoping Dark would come to the thread and offer advice.
The point isn't that the OP needs to block Dark and ignore anything he says. The point is that you aren't doing her any favors by actively seeking out and referring her to the advice of someone who doesn't have a clue how to run a business. If you can't understand why it's not smart to get business advice from someone who has only failed at business, then you'll just have to continue to be puzzled when the rest of us point that out.
I have successfuly run two businesses, so how many have you run? I've been open about my current successful business, haven't talked as much about the real estate holding business but that's also in the black. And as a CPA and consultant, turned around many struggling businesses and helped to start many others.
You haven't talked much about your successful businesses, though. I'm sure we'd all be interested to hear about them.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jan 3, 2016 11:49:02 GMT -5
Most people find value in hearing ftom those who have "been there, done that" whether they succeeded or failed.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jan 3, 2016 11:50:26 GMT -5
I find it curious that someone wants to filter information from another in the first place.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jan 3, 2016 12:03:39 GMT -5
Most people find value in hearing ftom those who have "been there, done that" whether they succeeded or failed.
Instead of calling on Dark to give an account of a specific what "not to do", it would be more helpful if you shared your story as a successful navigator of what to do. Share your insights on the planning process and how to make these decisions.
When I was navigating the planning and decision process, I found the amount of information available to be unmanageable without first qualifying it. Unless you have endless time and background data, you will not be able to qualify the information out there. Not all information is created equal and it's not just naïve, it's a waste of your limited time to give all information equal weight and consideration.
For example, here's a basic hierarchy of the credence I'd give to various information sources regarding business advice:
Successful business owners who have experience in multiple businesses and current operations Successful business advisors who see a variety of businesses in one facet of current operations (attorneys, accountants, regulators) Successful business owners who have experience in a single type of business or where that experience is not current Published information from reliable sources of any of the three types listed above Business owners who have failed in their business but have experience in multiple businesses Business owners who have failed in their business and have experience in only one type of business Friends and family
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milee
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Post by milee on Jan 3, 2016 12:04:45 GMT -5
I find it curious that someone wants to filter information from another in the first place. And I find it funny that it would be debatable that you wouldn't seek advice from someone who demonstrably didn't know how to do something.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2016 12:07:58 GMT -5
Actually, I'm not sure that is the most helpful at this point? Slrhough it does help to illustrate the work involved and draw attention to any deficits the OP has regarding the undertaking. However, I see the immediate question being less involved than that? As in risk assessment of taking sure lump sum and directing it in such a manner... In that, as stated, I think certainly Dark would have insight.
If the op more seriously considers moving forward, then advice from those who have been successful would certainly be in order.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2016 12:10:53 GMT -5
I find it curious that someone wants to filter information from another in the first place. And I find it funny that it would be debatable that you wouldn't seek advice from someone who demonstrably didn't know how to do something.
The question isn't 'Dark, how do you run s successful business?' But 'how does it feel to lose all your savings to this venture? What did you think you knew that it turned out you didn't? Knowing what you know now, would you make the same choice again? Etc.., i.e. Not questions on how to run a business successfully but in his experience going something the op wants to try with similar background/motivations...
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jan 3, 2016 12:11:03 GMT -5
I find it curious that someone wants to filter information from another in the first place. And I find it funny that it would be debatable that you wouldn't seek advice from someone who demonstrably didn't know how to do something.
Show me where i said that.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jan 3, 2016 12:12:32 GMT -5
I guess i must have missed some of my own ghost posts? Did i type somewhere to ONLY seek advice from Dark. Do NOT talk to anyone else or anyone who has ever succeeded in business? Oh ok.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Jan 3, 2016 12:15:36 GMT -5
It also sounds like you are diluting your business plan. Are you a cafe/bar OR is your major focus on the studio? You really need to do one of those things extremely well before branching into the other. People have unlimited media access now with Netflix and internet and phones and streaming everywhere. The need for a physical theater isn't all that important anymore. Also, how would a spouse feel about this? If you are married, then any business venture needs both on board. However, what is your line of work? What are you unhappy about In Particular? This might be a good opportunity to move on to something else. To take additional classes or look for something a bit different versus not using the degree and training you have. Can you also put that down on paper and consider some of those options as well? Here was my prescription before doing anything else.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jan 3, 2016 12:17:19 GMT -5
And I find it funny that it would be debatable that you wouldn't seek advice from someone who demonstrably didn't know how to do something.
Show me where i said that. The one and only person you called on for advice here is a person who has been quite open about the fact that he failed at the exact tasks OP is asking about (how to evaluate if a business idea is a good one and whether or not to put money in retirement savings or invest it in a startup business). Your exact words were "Where is Dark? Perhaps he could give some advice."
This is not a situation where Dark posted and I said to ignore it. This is a situation where you specifically are seeking out advice from a person who has shown he has bad judgment in this area. Then, instead of acknowledging your error, you're jumping on the person who is pointing it out. Classy.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jan 3, 2016 12:28:58 GMT -5
And I find it funny that it would be debatable that you wouldn't seek advice from someone who demonstrably didn't know how to do something.
The question isn't 'Dark, how do you run s successful business?' But 'how does it feel to lose all your savings to this venture? What did you think you knew that it turned out you didn't? Knowing what you know now, would you make the same choice again? Etc.., i.e. Not questions on how to run a business successfully but in his experience going something the op wants to try with similar background/motivations... It hadn't occurred to me to ask Dark questions from this perspective because I don't really see how valuable that information would be. OP has said she's worried about "pulling a Dark" and jeopardizing her family's money, so isn't the real question whether her idea will jeopardize her family's money? ie - whether it's a good idea or could be successful?
What could Dark say that would change her fear on that... Yes, it was horrible and I feel guilty and I lost our family's retirement savings, but it's been a very valuable family bonding experience that I wouldn't trade for the world?
OP's question isn't really what Dark felt or feels, it's about whether this business idea is good and can be successful. It's a Money board, not an emotional support board. I'm answering from a financial perspective and from a financial perspective, I don't think Dark's insight here is the first thing we should be pushing on OP.
This was one of the trends I saw on the threads about Dark's business as well. Financial and business advice was brushed aside or even attacked as being negative and was viewed as being unsupportive. That's a disservice to people because no matter how they end up feeling about it, the money is the money... and good financial advice doesn't always feel good to give or hear. But I think most people would be better served with sound financial and business advice here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2016 12:36:44 GMT -5
I'm a very logistics person as well. The fact is, the OP is not really looking at a strictly financial decision. Both she and Dark are/were mentioning emotional issues which are influential to the decision making process here as well, regardless if they should be or not. (I'm guessing neither op nor dark are as INTJ as some of the rest of us.) So his answering to the emotional part of 'quitting the job I hate to be my own boss and own the business I always dreamed of owning'... Is integral to the OP process.
As said, it was never suggested that Dark be the only person to answer, just that he might have unique perspective in that regard and recent experience in what relying on emotion in that decision making process can lead to.
Noone is discounting your expertise milee, nor suggesting that Dark is a better resource for successful business practices. I guess I don't understand why you are so adamantly opposed to a information gathering in multiple levels from a variety of sources.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jan 3, 2016 12:57:32 GMT -5
OK, I'm understanding a little more of what you're saying and why you would ask Dark.
I'm not at all opposed to gathering information. I'm cautioning OP - and anyone else who is thinking about starting a business - that there is a lot of bad information out there and one of the smartest things you can do to improve your chances of success is to figure out which information is valuable and worth seeking and which information is poor quality and should be ignored. That is one of the first and classic mistakes people make - seeking and trusting the wrong sources. Think about the common example of how many people say that their friends and family told them that they are the best darn ____ ever and that they should start a business in _____. Smart businesspeople smile, nod and file that stuff in the circular file; they're not rude to their family and friends but they don't make decisions based on it and they don't seek it out.
If OP thinks this is an emotional decision rather than a business decision, the first thing I'd do is advise her that until she can view this as a financial decision, she's less likely to make good choices. Hopefully she doesn't need to make people re-live their own painful bad choices to understand how prioritizing emotions in a business decision can lead to disaster. But if you think it would help her to have Dark come on and say that he allowed his emotions to make the choices - quit his job, start a poorly planned business and lose his family's retirement savings - I guess I can see that, but it seems kind of cruel to Dark to ask him to come here just to relive a painful experience to show OP how painful it was. She seems to know it didn't go well, so again I get back to the idea that she'd be better served by us focusing on the business aspects.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jan 3, 2016 13:08:20 GMT -5
I'm a very logistics person as well. The fact is, the OP is not really looking at a strictly financial decision. Both she and Dark are/were mentioning emotional issues which are influential to the decision making process here as well, regardless if they should be or not. (I'm guessing neither op nor dark are as INTJ as some of the rest of us.) So his answering to the emotionally part of 'quitting the job I hate to be my own boss and own the business I always dreamed of owning'... Is integral to the OP process. As said, it was never suggested that Dark be the only person to answer, just that he might have unique perspective in that regard and recent experience in what replying on emotion in that decision making process can lead to. Noone is discounting your expertise milee, nor suggesting that Dark is a better resource for successful business practices. I guess I don't understand why you are so adamantly opposed to a information gathering in multiple levels from a variety of sources. This is what the OP asked: I think I want to try this, I feel like everything is finally lining up, but it is stupid?! I'm 33, if that matters.
Which does not sound like she has done much more than conceptualize the idea. Had she come in with more information, then the information she would be given would be a lot more specific. Like I said in an earlier post, digitized systems for films (which she would need) run about $225K alone, due to the fund drive that a local theater had to upgrade their system. Just knowing that to run a film is going to start out at $225K (discounting the building, seating, cafe and everything else she wants to have) suggests to me that the $50K in start up funds she implied isn't going to come close to being sufficient. Like with Dark's business, she is looking at a niche market. I'm not sure how applicable this is to where she lives but I do remember Dark complaining that customers were upset about the prices, when they found out that they could buy things cheaper elsewhere. I think locally something like this would do well, but I live in a retirement community where there is a large group of people who have expendable incomes. I can think of a couple towns that an idea like this would go over like a turd in a punch bowl.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jan 3, 2016 13:31:17 GMT -5
I can think of a couple towns that an idea like this would go over like a turd in a punch bowl. Turd in a punch bowl .... Never heard that one before, I like it
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trimommy
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Post by trimommy on Jan 3, 2016 21:01:46 GMT -5
Thanks for the link, and I am doing a ton of research (and had done before I posted too). I didn't put all the nitty gritty because I have run the numbers, know my market, and believe it could be successful. The question of whether I would hire someone to do this for me - the answer is yes. I think I could and still be in the black. But I am interested in doing it myself, primarily for those cafe-article reasons of maximizing profit. And also because it's something I want to be very involved in, want to build from the ground up myself. Being the face of the operations is an important part of the idea to me. As for the tech side and the $225K set-up, that's not even close to what I am looking at. Check out www.indywood.org/new-blog/2015/3/2/how-to-start-your-own-cinema-for-under-15000 for ideas on how to build on a shoestring (I am thinking about a few steps above what they have here). But the point is to get it started and build/grow over time in line with revenues and lessons learned. Lean Startup has been a big inspiration for this. And there are no other theatres in our community - none at all, zero competition. And it is a growing community with a lot of young families who are looking for recreation opportunities in town. I have run lots of numbers and have faith that this can work. HOWEVER - I do think that it will not replace my current salary, at least for a few years. And I do worry about the strain on my marriage related to some of the distribution of household duties as have been mentioned above. My husband fully supports me doing this, but I don't know if he grasps what it would really be like. I was raised by parents who ran their own small business and I do actually know what it means in terms of no vacations, working holidays, long hours, etc. My husband is supportive in theory, but I wonder what it would look like 6-8 months in. And I agree that spending the inheritance in the first 12 months might increase the risk of emotional missteps. I still have guilt associated with the fact that I am receiving 4x what my brother is getting too (I mentioned that months ago in a different thread). Long story short, I am continuing to research and building my plan. But I think I will force myself to wait at least 12 months from the time I receive the money to take any action. Thanks all for the input and advice!
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