Sunday evening Presidential address to the nation

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

The thing is that ISIS is EXACTLY the same as NAZI Germany.  How do you think these minor little movements went from the beer halls and prison to controlling the nation?  ISIS has taken over territory, and they are creating a nation-state.  They'll have one if they aren't wiped out- the way the French should have wiped out NAZI Germany when they had the chance.  The nice thing I can say for the French is that the European powers were understandably conflict-averse in the aftermath of WWI.  The difference today is that we have the history. We know we should drown this baby in the bath now.  We need to get on with it.

[billisonboard]

Dec 7, 2015 13:11:43 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

... Here's the concept explained in an episode of "Breaking Bad". ...

Dec 7, 2015 14:05:40 GMT -5 Politically_Incorrect12 said:

... You sound like Travolta in Swordfish: ...

Got it. TV and movies. Hope that the other side is willing to follow the script that someone else writes for them.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 7, 2015 14:09:08 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

The thing is that ISIS is EXACTLY the same as NAZI Germany.  How do you think these minor little movements went from the beer halls and prison to controlling the nation?  ISIS has taken over territory, and they are creating a nation-state.  They'll have one if they aren't wiped out- the way the French should have wiped out NAZI Germany when they had the chance.  The nice thing I can say for the French is that the European powers were understandably conflict-averse in the aftermath of WWI.  The difference today is that we have the history. We know we should drown this baby in the bath now.  We need to get on with it.

how are they like NAZI Germany?

i am not playing games, Paul, i just HONESTLY don't see the similarity.

[billisonboard]

Dec 7, 2015 14:09:08 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

The thing is that ISIS is EXACTLY the same as NAZI Germany.  How do you think these minor little movements went from the beer halls and prison to controlling the nation?  ISIS has taken over territory, and they are creating a nation-state.  They'll have one if they aren't wiped out- the way the French should have wiped out NAZI Germany when they had the chance.  The nice thing I can say for the French is that the European powers were understandably conflict-averse in the aftermath of WWI.  The difference today is that we have the history. We know we should drown this baby in the bath now.  We need to get on with it.

I understand that we can defeat ISIS by launching a ground war and then occupying the area like we have in Germany for 70 years now. Is that your plan?

Of course, that doesn't mean that we will stop another organization from popping up somewhere else on the planet to create chaos.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 7, 2015 14:31:44 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Dec 7, 2015 14:09:08 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

The thing is that ISIS is EXACTLY the same as NAZI Germany.  How do you think these minor little movements went from the beer halls and prison to controlling the nation?  ISIS has taken over territory, and they are creating a nation-state.  They'll have one if they aren't wiped out- the way the French should have wiped out NAZI Germany when they had the chance.  The nice thing I can say for the French is that the European powers were understandably conflict-averse in the aftermath of WWI.  The difference today is that we have the history. We know we should drown this baby in the bath now.  We need to get on with it.

I understand that we can defeat ISIS by launching a ground war and then occupying the area like we have in Germany for 70 years now. Is that your plan?

Of course, that doesn't mean that we will stop another organization from popping up somewhere else on the planet to create chaos.

this is why i described the ISIS problem as relatively easy to solve, earlier.  they are giving us a fixed target to hit.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Some of you must have watched a different speech then I did. The President responded to Congress on lack of support and allowing people on the no fly list to purchase guns and their lack of guts to ban assault type weapons. They are in the NRA's pocket. Vote our way or we'll make sure you don't get re-elected. What do you all do with your AK-15's other then carry them around the street and into fast food places?

#‎Obama makes urgent address from the White House, calls for Congress to okay military force against ISIS, gun laws for terror at home.

“What we can do, and must do, is make it harder for them to kill.” go.id.me/1OQ0yRK

[Politically_Incorrect12]

I wonder what would happen if politicians had the same resolve to go after enemies that intend us harm as they do to go after the "other party." The issue with subjects such as this is perception.  If you see your family as being in immediate danger due to a specific threat, you are likely to think the response should be different than if you do not see the same level of immediate danger to those you care about....it doesn't mean the best decisions are made in either situation, but that is reality. If you feel that ISIS will present enough of a danger either now or in the future, you are likely to be willing to take a more aggressive approach than if you feel otherwise. 

[Value Buy]

Dec 7, 2015 13:25:23 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Dec 7, 2015 13:22:53 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Ah, well- fuck it. I mean I've long since resigned myself to the fact that they are going to light one off- maybe several- over the US.  They're going to nuke us first and THEN my ideas will be embraced by everyone here.

i consider that prospect highly unlikely.  but i know how unfashionable it is to say that, these days. 

Now you sound like President Obama claiming there were no credibile attacks planned against the U.S. in the homeland a week ago.

[Value Buy]

Dec 7, 2015 14:37:15 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

Some of you must have watched a different speech then I did. The President responded to Congress on lack of support and allowing people on the no fly list to purchase guns and their lack of guts to ban assault type weapons. They are in the NRA's pocket. Vote our way or we'll make sure you don't get re-elected. What do you all do with your AK-15's other then carry them around the street and into fast food places?

#‎Obama makes urgent address from the White House, calls for Congress to okay military force against ISIS, gun laws for terror at home.

“What we can do, and must do, is make it harder for them to kill.” go.id.me/1OQ0yRK

The President has refused to bomb the targets in the ME, but I agree, Congress should have demanded he address a joint session of the Senate and Congress and report to them why he has been derelict in his effort against ISIS. 

The Islamic terrorists in California were not on the no fly list.
We have 700,000 people on the no fly list.
Some are simply on it because their name is SIMILAR to someone who they think might know someone they want to talk to.
You know, like Kevin Bacon and seven degrees of separation.
Do you think 70% of the people on the no fly list belong there?
Even it only listed Muslim s, the list would not be that long.

[billisonboard]

Dec 7, 2015 18:20:30 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

... The President has refused to bomb the targets in the ME, but I agree, Congress should have demanded he address a joint session of the Senate and Congress and report to them why he has been derelict in his effort against ISIS. 
...

I'm confused:

The 3,271 munitions used in November were almost double the 1,683 in June, the low point of this year. They bring to almost 32,000 the weapons -- most of them precision-guided -- dropped by fighters, B-1B bombers and drones in almost 11,000 combat sorties since August 2014, according to statistics compiled by U.S. Air Forces Central Command that were obtained by Bloomberg News in advance of publication. www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-05/record-bombing-of-islamic-state-targets-tallied-by-u-s-military

Also: US Air Force running out of bombs to fight ISIS

Help me out with this refusing to bomb thing please.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 7, 2015 18:13:38 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Dec 7, 2015 13:25:23 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i consider that prospect highly unlikely.  but i know how unfashionable it is to say that, these days. 

Now you

this discussion is not about me.  leave me out of it, and try again.  it is not hard to master the skill.  just takes a little effort.

make it.

[Value Buy]

Billsonboard,
Most stats are 70% of the munitions come back on the planes.
70%
Some claim 80%. I will not even make that claim.
That; worse than on practice training runs.

The President got serious about bombing only after Russia became involved.
Before that, he did not allow oil refineries and supply truck to be touched.
IDIOCY.

[billisonboard]

Dec 7, 2015 18:44:11 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Billsonboard,
Most stats are 70% of the munitions come back on the planes.
70%
Some claim 80%. I will not even make that claim.
...

This is significant how? My link talked about how much we are dropping as well as the number of flights. Sounds like bad planning on the part of the military but not sure why that is the president's fault. Also, I provided a link indicating we are running out of bombs. Doesn't sound like we are hoarding them.

[billisonboard]

Dec 7, 2015 18:44:11 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

...
Before that, he did not allow oil refineries and supply truck to be touched.
...

Pentagon: New airstrikes target refineries used by ISIS in Syria By Chelsea J. Carter, Barbara Starr and Gul Tuysuz, CNN Updated 11:36 PM ET, Wed September 24, 2014

[billisonboard]

Dec 7, 2015 18:20:30 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

... Congress should have demanded he address a joint session of the Senate and Congress and report to them why he has been derelict in his effort against ISIS. 

...

Seems like Step 1 is for Congress to use their Constitutional power to declare war on ISIS before they look to find the President derelict in his duties as Command-in-Chief.

[Value Buy]

Billsonboard,
one airstrike a year ago does not negate the plain truth we have not targeted their oil supply lines and refineries.
Wasn't Kerry who stated a few weeks ago we what good does it do to blow up their oil tankers hauling the refined product. Said something to the affect, all they do is replace them
And then when we did decide to attack the tankers after the Paris attack we dropped leaflets telling them to clear out because they would die in the attack on the tankers........

[billisonboard]

Dec 7, 2015 19:10:02 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Billsonboard,
one airstrike a year ago does not negate the plain truth we have not targeted their oil supply lines and refineries.
Wasn't Kerry who stated a few weeks ago we what good does it do to blow up their oil tankers hauling the refined product. Said something to the affect, all they do is replace them
And then when we did decide to attack the tankers after the Paris attack we dropped leaflets telling them to clear out because they would die in the attack on the tankers........

I provided a link. You got anything other "Wasn't ... Said something like ..."

[fishy999]

Dec 7, 2015 14:37:15 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

Some of you must have watched a different speech then I did. The President responded to Congress on lack of support and allowing people on the no fly list to purchase guns and their lack of guts to ban assault type weapons. They are in the NRA's pocket. Vote our way or we'll make sure you don't get re-elected. What do you all do with your AK-15's other then carry them around the street and into fast food places?

#‎Obama makes urgent address from the White House, calls for Congress to okay military force against ISIS, gun laws for terror at home.

“What we can do, and must do, is make it harder for them to kill.” go.id.me/1OQ0yRK

It amazes me the way the right is seeing this- we have mass shootings all the time, but since the people that pulled the trigger this time were fans of ISIS all of a sudden it is a mass freakout, ban Muslims, shut Mosques (but keep allowing suspected terrorists to buy weapons)

What that tells me is they really aren't concerned with dead Americans or mass shootings at all- since the normal response is meh, stuff happens, prayers and all.  What they are concerned about is WHO is puling the trigger and how that plays into their politics.  Sad.  Either way the NRA wins everytime this happens.

[Value Buy]

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/americans-stock-up-on-weapons-after-california-shooting/ar-AAg65qN?li=BBnb7Kz

[Value Buy]

Even Harry Reid is changing his tune. Democrats are running to the right to join the Republicans.
I am surprise Cruz has not suggested this one.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/sen-harry-reid-calls-for-%E2%80%98isis-czar%E2%80%99-after-obama-address/ar-AAg7UgJ?li=BBnb7Kz

[Opti]

Dec 7, 2015 20:10:08 GMT -5 fishy999 said:

Dec 7, 2015 14:37:15 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

Some of you must have watched a different speech then I did. The President responded to Congress on lack of support and allowing people on the no fly list to purchase guns and their lack of guts to ban assault type weapons. They are in the NRA's pocket. Vote our way or we'll make sure you don't get re-elected. What do you all do with your AK-15's other then carry them around the street and into fast food places?

It amazes me the way the right is seeing this- we have mass shootings all the time, but since the people that pulled the trigger this time were fans of ISIS all of a sudden it is a mass freakout, ban Muslims, shut Mosques (but keep allowing suspected terrorists to buy weapons)

What that tells me is they really aren't concerned with dead Americans or mass shootings at all- since the normal response is meh, stuff happens, prayers and all.  What they are concerned about is WHO is puling the trigger and how that plays into their politics.  Sad.  Either way the NRA wins everytime this happens.

I hate seeing this as a right/left issue even though there are more than enough people falling into what has been staked out as right/left positions. From what little I've read, the law about the no fly list and gun purchases needs some cleaning up so it is used against vetted names instead of people who shouldn't be on the list.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Dec 7, 2015 14:22:50 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Dec 7, 2015 14:09:08 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

The thing is that ISIS is EXACTLY the same as NAZI Germany.  How do you think these minor little movements went from the beer halls and prison to controlling the nation?  ISIS has taken over territory, and they are creating a nation-state.  They'll have one if they aren't wiped out- the way the French should have wiped out NAZI Germany when they had the chance.  The nice thing I can say for the French is that the European powers were understandably conflict-averse in the aftermath of WWI.  The difference today is that we have the history. We know we should drown this baby in the bath now.  We need to get on with it.

how are they like NAZI Germany?

i am not playing games, Paul, i just HONESTLY don't see the similarity.

They started out as essentially a gang. They rallied around a set of ideals, but they had no real power.  They gathered steam, and gradually took over the levers of power.  They were stateless. A-symetric.  Until they didn't have to be, because they got control of a country.  ISIS is doing the EXACT SAME THING in the middle east.

[Tennesseer]

Sounds like Donald Trump's campaign and ultimate goal.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 7, 2015 22:05:20 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Dec 7, 2015 14:22:50 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

how are they like NAZI Germany?

i am not playing games, Paul, i just HONESTLY don't see the similarity.

They started out as essentially a gang. They rallied around a set of ideals, but they had no real power.  They gathered steam, and gradually took over the levers of power.  They were stateless. A-symetric.  Until they didn't have to be, because they got control of a country.  ISIS is doing the EXACT SAME THING in the middle east.

ok, thanks for the reply.  i honestly don't know enough about NAZI Germany to comment any further, but i hope someone else does.

[billisonboard]

Dec 7, 2015 19:10:02 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Billsonboard,
one airstrike a year ago does not negate the plain truth we have not targeted their oil supply lines and refineries.
...

Saturday 27 December 2014 10.18 ESTLast modified on Tuesday 30 December 201409.09 EST

...
The US-led coalition fighting Islamic State (Isis) militants in Iraq and Syria carried out 12 air strikes on Saturday, according to a statement.
...
In Iraq, targets including buildings, vehicles and an Isis refinery were hit in six strikes near Al Asad, Mosul, Falluja, Al Qaim and Baiji, the statement said. www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/27/us-airstrikes-isis-iraq-syria

"But, but, but billisonboard, you only found two examples of strikes against refinaries. I have also twice posted the statement that we aren't targeting refinaries. So why should someone believe your sources we are targeting them over my statements pulled straight out of my ass that we aren't?"  "I don't know VB, I guess people will just have to decide on their own. "

[Value Buy]

Here is some evidence the American public is no longer behind the President's stance on the war on terror.

www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/majority-of-americans-want-us-ground-troops-to-fight-isis-poll/ar-AAg86JV?li=BBnb7Kz

[zibazinski]

He's a worse embarrassment than Carter and that takes a lot.

[OldCoyote]

Dec 7, 2015 18:31:37 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Dec 7, 2015 18:20:30 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

... The President has refused to bomb the targets in the ME, but I agree, Congress should have demanded he address a joint session of the Senate and Congress and report to them why he has been derelict in his effort against ISIS. 
...

I'm confused:

The 3,271 munitions used in November were almost double the 1,683 in June, the low point of this year. They bring to almost 32,000 the weapons -- most of them precision-guided -- dropped by fighters, B-1B bombers and drones in almost 11,000 combat sorties since August 2014, according to statistics compiled by U.S. Air Forces Central Command that were obtained by Bloomberg News in advance of publication. www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-05/record-bombing-of-islamic-state-targets-tallied-by-u-s-military

Also: US Air Force running out of bombs to fight ISIS

Help me out with this refusing to bomb thing please.

You are going to tell me that anything that either side is saying is close to being the truth??

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Dec 8, 2015 7:38:14 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

He's a worse embarrassment than Carter and that takes a lot.

He makes Nixon look honest, and Carter look presidential.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 8, 2015 7:38:14 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

He's a worse embarrassment than Carter and that takes a lot.

no.  Bush was far worse than Carter.  so was Nixon.  Obama isn't even close to that bad.