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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 3, 2016 11:55:41 GMT -5
ouch.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 3, 2016 11:56:34 GMT -5
Because, as I said, they post these same charts at least once or twice a week with source explicitly indicated. Anybody who visits their site regularly is well aware of this. In this case, they've sandwiched 9 full-sized plots together into an image more than 3,000 pixels wide. Space is at a premium, hence no explicit indication of the source. I wouldn't even call it an "oversight" since the charts are supposed to be viewed in the context of ZH.com, where the readership is imminently aware of where the data comes from. Disregard if you want. No skin off my nose. But it doesn't change reality. reality? Well... reality fudged x% to look rosier than it actually is, if you actually get deep under the hood. But I'm not going to push my luck trying to convince you of that.
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 3, 2016 11:59:46 GMT -5
Well... reality fudged x% to look rosier than it actually is, if you actually get deep under the hood. But I'm not going to push my luck trying to convince you of that. i would actually prefer log plots for most of that stuff. that is how the real world works.
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Post by Opti on Mar 3, 2016 12:08:58 GMT -5
There is likely not a clear cut answer at least US-wide.
So far, evangelical voters in three states have weighed in on their preference in the race for the Republican presidential nomination. In both Iowa and New Hampshire, evangelical voters were less likely than non-evangelical voters to support Donald Trump — by 7 and 11 points, respectively.
But South Carolina’s primary on Saturday was a notable change in this trend. According to the exit polls, white evangelical voters were actually a few percentage points more likely than other voters to support Mr. Trump.
The willingness of evangelicals to support Mr. Trump played a vital role in his victory in the state. South Carolina has the highest proportion of evangelicals of all three states that have voted so far, making it difficult to win without their strong support. Evangelicals make up nearly three-quarters of Republican primary voters in the state. Reflecting Trump’s strength among this group, they also accounted for about three quarters of his entire vote total. www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/02/21/poll-watch-donald-trumps-curiously-strong-support-among-evangelicals/?_r=0
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 3, 2016 12:17:08 GMT -5
new polling out for Mississippi, Louisiana and Michigan show Trump and Clinton with wide leads. Clinton leads by about 50% in a couple of cases- Trump is up by about 20% across the board. they will probably both take the vast majority of the delegates- but keep in mind that most of these are caucus states, which have not gone particularly well for Clinton OR Trump- so there is an element of unpredictability in them. this is particularly true for Maine, which, to date, has no polling since NOVEMBER.
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Post by Value Buy on Mar 3, 2016 12:28:34 GMT -5
To answer your question: What I'm saying is what you think I'm saying. As for the percentages: 60% Trump winning vs. 40% losing is pretty close to a coin flip. I'm not convinced there's that much light at the end of the tunnel. the fact that you can't see any light at the end of the tunnel doesn't mean that there is none. the fact that i can see light at the end of the tunnel doesn't mean there is any. but your cursing at the end of a long string of optimism is totally not like me, Virgil. i am data driven. if Trump's odds of winning rise over time, as they have been, my estimation of him winning will ALSO rise over time. you are comparing me to people who are driven by belief rather than data. they were driven by the belief that polls didn't matter. i am NOT driven by that belief AT ALL. polls matter. data matters. and as the data increasingly shows Trump invincible, i will see less and less light- not more. edit: your graph is way off, btw. i was at 50%+ on December 10th, as post #65 in THIS THREAD shows. i would also add that your "reality" said that we would enter a second recession before the end of Obama's second term, that California would never balance their budget, at least not in the time i said it would, and that the dictionary meaning of terms doesn't reflect common usage. none of those things are, were, or will be "real". This is the second time you referenced post 65. Post 132 you said he would lose the nomination. Haven't mentioned that one..... Now you think he can win, except when you think it will be possibly a brokered convention. Things do change. My reality is, Trump has steam rolled everyone, and it is a runaway train. As far as a recession with Obama, many on Wall Street believe we have entered one.
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 3, 2016 12:32:36 GMT -5
i think that Kasich stands a reasonably good chance of winning Ohio. so, barring something utterly catastrophic for Trump, the whole primary might come down to Florida. it is a winner-take-all state, and 99 delegates. Rubio keeps claiming he has a chance there, and indeed he does- but it is very slim, and time is running out. Rubio trailed by only 8% in October. he trailed by 11% in December. in early Jan, he trailed by 17%. in LATE JAN, he hit his nadir, trailing by 25%. now he trails by 20% it is hard to see him making up 20% in (2) weeks when it took him over a month to make up 5%. but that is what he has to do to stay in this, and that is what the GOP has to do if it wants someone other than Trump to be it's nominee. well, anything short of blowing the process up.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Mar 3, 2016 12:36:11 GMT -5
It's interesting that at this point, people are still on the attack of the frontrunner. Maybe Trump would cause both Republicans and Democrats in the House and Senate to have a common "enemy" if he were elected to the extent that they might actually start trying to work together. no, it is not interesting at all. it makes perfect sense. it happens every election cycle. Not usually when somebody has this much of a lead though...by this point, people are usually starting to tone things down; unless it's still a close race.
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 3, 2016 12:36:22 GMT -5
the fact that you can't see any light at the end of the tunnel doesn't mean that there is none. the fact that i can see light at the end of the tunnel doesn't mean there is any. but your cursing at the end of a long string of optimism is totally not like me, Virgil. i am data driven. if Trump's odds of winning rise over time, as they have been, my estimation of him winning will ALSO rise over time. you are comparing me to people who are driven by belief rather than data. they were driven by the belief that polls didn't matter. i am NOT driven by that belief AT ALL. polls matter. data matters. and as the data increasingly shows Trump invincible, i will see less and less light- not more. edit: your graph is way off, btw. i was at 50%+ on December 10th, as post #65 in THIS THREAD shows. i would also add that your "reality" said that we would enter a second recession before the end of Obama's second term, that California would never balance their budget, at least not in the time i said it would, and that the dictionary meaning of terms doesn't reflect common usage. none of those things are, were, or will be "real". This is the second time you referenced post 65. Post 132 you said he would lose the nomination. Haven't mentioned that one..... that is because i was talking about Iowa, not "the nomination", which was not mentioned in that post. i am far too conservative to speculate much about the nomination in December, VB. you should know that, by now. even now, i am reluctant to speculate about it, except when pressed. but i appreciate your love for this thread that you actually combed through 2-3 pages looking for that. Now you think he can win, except when you think it will be possibly a brokered convention. you often accuse me of missing media reports. today i am paying attention to them, and you think this is somehow my idea.Things do change. My reality is, Trump has steam rolled everyone, and it is a runaway train. As far as a recession with Obama, many on Wall Street believe we have entered one. there is that dictionary problem, again. recession has a definition. by that definition, we are definitely NOT in one. i can't cure stupid, but i can certainly ignore it. PS- i would like it, for once, if you could actually give me some credit for being right. i have been, you know. consistently. the "gotcha" game is very childish.
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 3, 2016 12:37:34 GMT -5
no, it is not interesting at all. it makes perfect sense. it happens every election cycle. Not usually when somebody has this much of a lead though...by this point, people are usually starting to tone things down; unless it's still a close race. you think so? huh. ok.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Mar 3, 2016 12:39:23 GMT -5
I was reading an interesting article in the New Yorker about Trumps' strategy. At his stump speeches, he spends the first third talking about the poll numbers, and how he is winning, winning, winning. He spends the second third trashing the media (at his speeches, members of the media are fenced into an area at the back of the room, and he usually points at them and talks about how horrible they are and how, as POTUS, he's going to change the libel laws so he can sue the horrible media outlets for lying about him all the time.
During one of these rallies, the reporter talked to several Trump supporters who said they didn't believe anything anyone said about Trump - that they only believed what Trump said about Trump.
It's a brilliant strategy and Trump is doing an outstanding job with it - he's convinced his supporters nothing anyone else says about him is ever true. I saw a commercial this AM from some PAC talking about Trump University, interviewing people who got taken for tens of thousands of dollars by a fake college that didn't hand out degrees, and I thought to myself - I bet this will have zero effect because Trumps voters will assume it's all lies.
Say what you want about him, he's devised an infallible way to brainwash his followers into sticking with him.
he's a very dangerous fellow. It seems that most candidates who end up with the nomination are the same way, with basically convincing their supporters that the criticisms aren't true or at least aren't really worth worrying about.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Mar 3, 2016 12:41:12 GMT -5
Not usually when somebody has this much of a lead though...by this point, people are usually starting to tone things down; unless it's still a close race. you think so? huh. ok. When is the last time, at this same point in time, with the chances of another nominee quickly diminishing....that you saw a call for the "party" to "turn their backs" on the candidate to the extent that they seem to be saying him winning is worse than the person from the other party winning?
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 3, 2016 12:41:50 GMT -5
he's a very dangerous fellow. It seems that most candidates who end up with the nomination are the same way, with basically convincing their supporters that the criticisms aren't true or at least aren't really worth worrying about. most candidates are nothing like Trump, tho. the scope of his lying, inexperience, lack of specificity, and jingoism is a once-in-a-generation thing. and not a good one.
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 3, 2016 12:42:46 GMT -5
When is the last time, at this same point in time, with the chances of another nominee quickly diminishing....that you saw a call for the "party" to "turn their backs" on the candidate to the extent that they seem to be saying him winning is worse than the person from the other party winning? i am not going to debate this anymore because i really don't know. but i would say that it is not without historical analog.
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Post by happyhoix on Mar 3, 2016 12:48:08 GMT -5
You have to be kidding, Just what does the GOP establishment trying to do here? Small hands, sweats to much, and Romney's comments, Don't they realize that the reason Trump is doing as well is because of the establishment attitude! This looks like junior high school fights. Attacks on one of your own does nothing good. Idiots!! they are throwing out their rule book and playing by Trump's rule book, of course. and it is entirely rational, since their rule book didn't dent his numbers. Nominating Romney as their attack dog against Trump is interesting. I always pegged Romney as very white bread and unfailingly polite, I actually like his snarky side.
"His domestic policies would lead to recession. His foreign policies would make America and the world less safe. He has neither the temperament nor the judgment to be president. And his personal qualities would mean that America would cease to be a shining city on a hill."
www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/mitt-romney-eviscerate-donald-trump-phony-fraud-n530877
Don't know if it will have an impact, though. Don't know that Trump voters will listen to anyone, not even the former GOP POTUS candidate, at this point.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Mar 3, 2016 12:52:44 GMT -5
It seems that most candidates who end up with the nomination are the same way, with basically convincing their supporters that the criticisms aren't true or at least aren't really worth worrying about. most candidates are nothing like Trump, tho. the scope of his lying Really? There is a reason most presidential candidates who haven't been President make a lot of campaign promises they never follow through on.inexperience, Inexperience in what...politics (I'm guessing there is quite a bit of that in his business), real world experience (can't say many candidates have had that), being President...what inexperience in particular?lack of specificity, It worked for Obama the first time around, maybe he's hoping it will happen again....and like I just wrote, lots of candidates with "specificity" have never followed through with them once they were put in a position to do so because it's easy to make a plan when you don't have to worry about anybody else contributing; it's a different story once elected and you need other people on board. and jingoism is a once-in-a-generation thing. I don't really know about this one...he can talk a lot; but you don't get in his position without knowing how to relate to and talk to people, but you also don't get there by being a pushover either.and not a good one. Trump definitely concerns me....Clinton concerns me too....in the past there have been choices where I've tried to figure out who would be the least bad of a pick; but between these two, I don't know that there is one.
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 3, 2016 12:56:44 GMT -5
they are throwing out their rule book and playing by Trump's rule book, of course. and it is entirely rational, since their rule book didn't dent his numbers. Nominating Romney as their attack dog against Trump is interesting. I always pegged Romney as very white bread and unfailingly polite, I actually like his snarky side.
"His domestic policies would lead to recession. His foreign policies would make America and the world less safe. He has neither the temperament nor the judgment to be president. And his personal qualities would mean that America would cease to be a shining city on a hill."
www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/mitt-romney-eviscerate-donald-trump-phony-fraud-n530877
Don't know if it will have an impact, though. Don't know that Trump voters will listen to anyone, not even the former GOP POTUS candidate, at this point.
hoix: i have to go to work, so i am going to leave this pleasant diversion for a bit. but i wanted to say something here that i have repeated often in this process, in varying flavors. Trump's supporters live in a self contained world- a personality cult. and it is very unlikely, just like with any cult, that you will be able to break the hold that Trump has on his believers. but that DOES NOT mean either of the following things: 1) that his brand can be franchised to the general, more skeptical, public 2) that this necessarily leads to any greater support than he has been seeing since, say- AUGUST. now, i admit, it is disturbing that 1/3 of the GOP has been taken over by this senseless windbag. but let's consider the history, here. 2/3 of the GOP thinks that Obama is a Muslim. over half think he was born in Kenya. if they BELIEVE that Trump is the best candidate- is that any more absurd than those OTHER beliefs? no, of course not. so, really, this is just chickens coming home to roost. the GOP has done NOTHING to stop this idiocy in terms of Obama, and this has lead to a whole lot of people that will believe things without questioning them any more. that is the problem the GOP has, and i don't think it is fixable in the short term. which means they are going to have to live with Candidate Trump. but i have serious doubts that this will translate to anything much at the GE level.
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Post by happyhoix on Mar 3, 2016 12:58:35 GMT -5
most candidates are nothing like Trump, tho. the scope of his lying Really? There is a reason most presidential candidates who haven't been President make a lot of campaign promises they never follow through on.inexperience, Inexperience in what...politics (I'm guessing there is quite a bit of that in his business), real world experience (can't say many candidates have had that), being President...what inexperience in particular?lack of specificity, It worked for Obama the first time around, maybe he's hoping it will happen again....and like I just wrote, lots of candidates with "specificity" have never followed through with them once they were put in a position to do so because it's easy to make a plan when you don't have to worry about anybody else contributing; it's a different story once elected and you need other people on board. and jingoism is a once-in-a-generation thing. I don't really know about this one...he can talk a lot; but you don't get in his position without knowing how to relate to and talk to people, but you also don't get there by being a pushover either.and not a good one. Trump definitely concerns me....Clinton concerns me too....in the past there have been choices where I've tried to figure out who would be the least bad of a pick; but between these two, I don't know that there is one. I don't like either one, either. This is a crappy election cycle, for so many reasons.
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 3, 2016 13:01:17 GMT -5
most candidates are nothing like Trump, tho. the scope of his lying Really? There is a reason most presidential candidates who haven't been President make a lot of campaign promises they never follow through on.REALLY. i have never seen anyone that prevaricates like Trump. he is the lyingist liar that ever lied a lie.inexperience, Inexperience in what...politics (I'm guessing there is quite a bit of that in his business), real world experience (can't say many candidates have had that), being President...what inexperience in particular?
the last i checked, the presidency was a political office. let me know if that has changed.
lack of specificity, It worked for Obama the first time around, maybe he's hoping it will happen again....and like I just wrote, lots of candidates with "specificity" have never followed through with them once they were put in a position to do so because it's easy to make a plan when you don't have to worry about anybody else contributing; it's a different story once elected and you need other people on board.
again, this is a matter of degrees. and just like the lying, Trump has taken lack of specificity to a new level.
and jingoism is a once-in-a-generation thing. I don't really know about this one...he can talk a lot; but you don't get in his position without knowing how to relate to and talk to people, but you also don't get there by being a pushover either.
yeah, he gets along with people through primary jingoism. that is not a good way to appeal to the electorate, imo. but i have a very strong anti-nationalist strain to my personality, so maybe it is just me that wants to throw up in my mouth when i read his campaign slogan.and not a good one. Trump definitely concerns me....Clinton concerns me too....in the past there have been choices where I've tried to figure out who would be the least bad of a pick; but between these two, I don't know that there is one. Clinton only concerns me because she is more of the same. the same wars. the same spying. same same same.
but i will take the same over the unknown any day.
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Post by dondub on Mar 3, 2016 13:02:33 GMT -5
Looks like Mitt has begun positioning himself to be the adult in the room at a brokered convention.
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 3, 2016 16:53:34 GMT -5
Looks like Mitt has begun positioning himself to be the adult in the room at a brokered convention. I don't think it's a coincidence that Mr. Romney joined the fray mere days after Mr. Trump accused him, in the most public way possible, of running a terrible campaign, and Sen. Rubio basically agreed with him. He's positioning himself to defend his honour... such as it is.
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Post by dondub on Mar 3, 2016 16:56:09 GMT -5
I believe he still has aspirations. Do they ever leave you once you've been there? And what honour? Anyone trashing poor folks while paying 10-11% on millions has none.
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 3, 2016 17:00:57 GMT -5
I believe he still has aspirations. Do they ever leave you once you've been there? And what honour? Anyone trashing poor folks while paying 10-11% on millions has none. All the trash talk was to win the 2012 election. So to hear Mr. Trump accusing him of not doing it well enough to win the election, well... them's fightin' words.
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Post by happyhoix on Mar 3, 2016 17:03:58 GMT -5
Looks like Mitt has begun positioning himself to be the adult in the room at a brokered convention. I don't think it's a coincidence that Mr. Romney joined the fray mere days after Mr. Trump accused him, in the most public way possible, of running a terrible campaign, and Sen. Rubio basically agreed with him. He's positioning himself to defend his honour... such as it is. I don't think Romney is that thin skinned. I think a bunch of GOPers got together and said 'we have to derail this crazy train before this guy ruins the party' and then picked some of the most prominent GOPers to sic on the mad dog.
Not only has Romney spoken up, but McCain did, too, and he's pointing out that there is a list of 60 other Republicans active in international affairs who have signed a letter stating that Trump will be a disaster if he gets let loose in foreign policy. This is an organized military assault, I just wish they had of called out the troops earlier.
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Post by dondub on Mar 3, 2016 17:09:27 GMT -5
Mitt! Mitt! Mitt!
Anything to drive paul and shooby nuts!
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 3, 2016 17:16:41 GMT -5
I believe he still has aspirations. Do they ever leave you once you've been there? And what honour? Anyone trashing poor folks while paying 10-11% on millions has none. All the trash talk was to win the 2012 election. So to hear Mr. Trump accusing him of not doing it well enough to win the election, well... them's fightin' words. i think this is precisely it. no matter what one might think of Romney, he conducted himself as a gentleman. it must gall the hell out of him watching Dumpster Fire.
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Post by happyhoix on Mar 3, 2016 17:22:40 GMT -5
All the trash talk was to win the 2012 election. So to hear Mr. Trump accusing him of not doing it well enough to win the election, well... them's fightin' words. i think this is precisely it. no matter what one might think of Romney, he conducted himself as a gentleman. it must gall the hell out of him watching Dumpster Fire. It galls the hell out of most of us.
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 3, 2016 17:30:10 GMT -5
i think this is precisely it. no matter what one might think of Romney, he conducted himself as a gentleman. it must gall the hell out of him watching Dumpster Fire. It galls the hell out of most of us. I had only heard snippets. Tuesday evening he came on and I decided to listen to it all. It reminded me of this: How many people with Attention Deficit Disorder does it take to change a light bulb? I don't know. How many? You want to go get something to eat? I don't think he ever fully finished a thought.
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 3, 2016 17:45:13 GMT -5
I don't think it's a coincidence that Mr. Romney joined the fray mere days after Mr. Trump accused him, in the most public way possible, of running a terrible campaign, and Sen. Rubio basically agreed with him. He's positioning himself to defend his honour... such as it is. I don't think Romney is that thin skinned. I think a bunch of GOPers got together and said 'we have to derail this crazy train before this guy ruins the party' and then picked some of the most prominent GOPers to sic on the mad dog.
Not only has Romney spoken up, but McCain did, too, and he's pointing out that there is a list of 60 other Republicans active in international affairs who have signed a letter stating that Trump will be a disaster if he gets let loose in foreign policy. This is an organized military assault, I just wish they had of called out the troops earlier. Poor wretches don't realize that being despised by the Republican establishment is 95% of what Mr. Trump has going for him. They haven't clued in yet that they're the Patriot Acting, government shutdown aborting, deficit ceiling raising, PPACA fail-to-preventing, Snowden persecuting, war losing, let Obama run amoking, Wall Street out-to-selling, useless rectal tumour of a political party Americans hate so much that their condemnation is political gold. Well... sucks to be them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2016 19:37:39 GMT -5
I've never "fake [quoted]" you... so I can't call doing so, anything.
Of course you did. Not only that you implied I had said things with a statement that just.weren't.there. I guess I suffer from hidden implication syndrome.
I'm moving on and I think it best you stop lying and drop the entire matter. Bye bye. I never lie... so there's nothing for me to stop. And I've never "fake [quoted]" you. If you'd like to stop accusing me of doing so please feel free to stop at any time.
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