djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 29, 2016 12:19:08 GMT -5
I think it's a disaster for the GOP as well. Fracturing it into a Trump led progressive party and the conservative GOP, IMHO.
I have heard some talking heads suggest the other GOP candidates may 'try' something at the GOP convention.
What might they try, is it legal, and does it have a chance in working? It would run Trump into a third party candidate who would cannibalize voters away from the GOP, but at least the GOP could run someone more cut from their mold.
did you mean "progressive" or "populist", because i don't see Trump as progressive at all. i see him as a populist reactionary. the party has a good deal of latitude in choosing candidates. but the way Preibus is talking, he is going to follow Trump down the drain.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 29, 2016 12:33:50 GMT -5
You're right I meant populist. Oops.
Does the party have latitude in choosing candidates? I can't see how they could ignore Trump's delegate count in favor of someone else at the convention without it being a giant 'screw you' to the primary process.
People are not in favor of the old smoke filled room type conventions.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2016 12:37:12 GMT -5
They have latitude if no one reaches the 'magic number'... I agree brokering for someone else is going to be another crazy plot turn in this epic cluster of a screenplay...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 29, 2016 12:40:26 GMT -5
You're right I meant populist. Oops.
Does the party have latitude in choosing candidates? I can't see how they could ignore Trump's delegate count in favor of someone else at the convention without it being a giant 'screw you' to the primary process.
People are not in favor of the old smoke filled room type conventions. oped got it right, they don't have much latitude if Trump wins outright.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 29, 2016 12:49:39 GMT -5
They have latitude if no one reaches the 'magic number'... I agree brokering for someone else is going to be another crazy plot turn in this epic cluster of a screenplay... So I guess that's why Trump keeps dropping hints about the GOP needing to 'treat him nicely.'
I expect a brokered convention would be a full scale crazy ass melt down.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Feb 29, 2016 13:15:59 GMT -5
This says that if voters give the delegates to Trump they are only bound to vote for him on the first ballot. After that it is up to them who they vote for. Sounds like it could make for some interesting TV.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 29, 2016 14:30:00 GMT -5
1952 Floor Fight on Seating of GA DelegatesA floor fight between the delegates of Robert A. Taft (R-OH) and Gen. Eisenhower developed during the 1952 Republican National Convention over the seating of Georgia delegates.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Feb 29, 2016 14:43:24 GMT -5
1952 Floor Fight on Seating of GA DelegatesA floor fight between the delegates of Robert A. Taft (R-OH) and Gen. Eisenhower developed during the 1952 Republican National Convention over the seating of Georgia delegates. Well, I live in GA, I know what kind of people we are - frankly, I don't blame the other GOP's if they don't want to sit next to us.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 29, 2016 17:56:52 GMT -5
1952 Floor Fight on Seating of GA DelegatesA floor fight between the delegates of Robert A. Taft (R-OH) and Gen. Eisenhower developed during the 1952 Republican National Convention over the seating of Georgia delegates. Well, I live in GA, I know what kind of people we are - frankly, I don't blame the other GOP's if they don't want to sit next to us. You folks do nothing but eat boiled peanuts at these conventions. Who would want to sit next to you.
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marvholly
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Post by marvholly on Mar 1, 2016 6:29:26 GMT -5
I suspect it is going to be 'interesting' (in the Chinese sense)TV tonight as the results trickle in. I will be switching back/forth between my fav shows & the results and/or pundits.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Mar 1, 2016 7:39:47 GMT -5
Obama is probably a little better than average just because of the environment when he entered. I really have no clue what to think when people try to insist he's 'the worst president ever' Let's see here, Obama had full control of the House and Senate, After some extreme arm twisting of fellow democrats managed to push through Obamacare! You know, little things that keep conning out, hidden in the 2800 page bill that even congress did not have a chance to read, happen to remember any of that? Obamacare is all ready falling apart with insurers getting ready to bail out. I also remember something about this was going to be the most transparent administration ever, Just how did that work out.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2016 10:17:17 GMT -5
So he's no more transparent than anyone else and that makes him the worst? So he assisted congress in negotiating and passing ACA... At least it includ d provisions to pay for it... Unlike the equally as expensive Medicare part D.
So even on those two myopic notes I'm not sure how he's 'the worst' ...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 1, 2016 11:07:00 GMT -5
Obama is probably a little better than average just because of the environment when he entered. I really have no clue what to think when people try to insist he's 'the worst president ever' Let's see here, Obama had full control of the House and Senate, you can stop right there. he only had full control if you consider Blue Dog Democrats "on his side". they weren't.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 1, 2016 11:09:00 GMT -5
So he's no more transparent than anyone else and that makes him the worst? So he assisted congress in negotiating and passing ACA... At least it includ d provisions to pay for it... Unlike the equally as expensive Medicare part D. So even on those two myopic notes I'm not sure how he's 'the worst' ... there is so much bullshit in that post, you should not have bothered replying to it. Obama took a Republican plan and tried to get bipartisan support, failing to realize that the GOP had no interest in supporting ANYTHING he did. i don't think he ever learned that lesson, and i fault him for it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2016 11:28:30 GMT -5
I know, I know. You are right. That too...
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 1, 2016 12:13:56 GMT -5
I thought you were referring to the political environment. With the polarization and animus between the parties it is not better. I don't blame him for it as the right does (he did not begin his term vowing to not work with them as they did, after all) but he could have done better in fixing it. What's a vow worth when he breaks it? He may have "vowed" to work with them, but he never actually even tried. Everything with him was "My way or no way"... and for two years (while Democrats controlled both sides of Congress) he got "his way", without even appearing to give a crap about what Republicans wanted. No. Many of his "starting points" were left- or near-center, and they still told him (basically) to go to hell. Attempts to compromise were incorporated into the starting point, not necessarily in leaving room for a lot of negotiations afterward. Which makes sense if you are attempting to actually reach early agreement rather than engage in pathetic partisan political posturing.
GOP members of Congress during this administration have shown no willingness to even pretend to negotiate with the President, and have done little to distinguish themselves as either intelligent, honorable, or dedicated to the public good. Instead, we get over 50 separate votes to abolish Obamacare and eight Benghazi investigations. Now a refusal to even consider a Supreme Court nomination.
STOP BEING STUPID LITTLE SH**S AND DO YOUR F***ING JOBS, MORONS!
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Mar 1, 2016 20:47:27 GMT -5
While the Obama trashers trash on, the real issue, as pointed out above, is that the repos have done "nothink, nothink" (thanks sarge) to help move America forward. Lest we forget, these are the flag waving patriots. But in reality they are more like crows. They make a lot of noise, shit on your car, and eat carrion for lunch while we all wish they would just.go.away. and get replaced by more honorable men that can work together and get something done for the betterment of us all. Instead we will be stuck with these petulant jerkwads into the near future while their low info voters keep whining about gubmint.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2016 20:48:40 GMT -5
What's a vow worth when he breaks it? He may have "vowed" to work with them, but he never actually even tried. Everything with him was "My way or no way"... and for two years (while Democrats controlled both sides of Congress) he got "his way", without even appearing to give a crap about what Republicans wanted. No. Many of his "starting points" were left- or near-center, and they still told him (basically) to go to hell. Attempts to compromise were incorporated into the starting point, not necessarily in leaving room for a lot of negotiations afterward. Which makes sense if you are attempting to actually reach early agreement rather than engage in pathetic partisan political posturing.
GOP members of Congress during this administration have shown no willingness to even pretend to negotiate with the President, and have done little to distinguish themselves as either intelligent, honorable, or dedicated to the public good. Instead, we get over 50 separate votes to abolish Obamacare and eight Benghazi investigations. Now a refusal to even consider a Supreme Court nomination.
STOP BEING STUPID LITTLE SH**S AND DO YOUR F***ING JOBS, MORONS! I disagree with the first paragraph, but I have no argument with the bolded/rest.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2016 20:50:39 GMT -5
While the Obama trashers trash on, the real issue, as pointed out above, is that the repos have done "nothink, nothink" (thanks sarge) to help move America forward. Lest we forget, these are the flag waving patriots. But in reality they are more like crows. They make a lot of noise, shit on your car, and eat carrion for lunch while we all wish they would just.go.away. and get replaced by more honorable men that can work together and get something done for the betterment of us all. Instead we will be stuck with these petulant jerkwads into the near future while their low info voters keep whining about gubmint. I do agree with you on "the real issue"... unfortunately the Democrats are just as guilty as the Republicans. We need to get rid of BOTH parties.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Mar 1, 2016 20:56:49 GMT -5
Sorry, Richard, but I don't see the same 'sit on their hands' behavior from the Demos, nor their professed dislike of the government that pays them well, gives them awesome health insurance, and great pensions. We need men and women that come into these offices with a real desire to work across the aisle to get shit accomplished. The Repos have an entire clusterfuck of congress critters that do nothing except rip us off.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 1, 2016 21:33:38 GMT -5
While the Obama trashers trash on, the real issue, as pointed out above, is that the repos have done "nothink, nothink" (thanks sarge) to help move America forward. Lest we forget, these are the flag waving patriots. But in reality they are more like crows. They make a lot of noise, shit on your car, and eat carrion for lunch while we all wish they would just.go.away. and get replaced by more honorable men that can work together and get something done for the betterment of us all. Instead we will be stuck with these petulant jerkwads into the near future while their low info voters keep whining about gubmint. I do agree with you on "the real issue"... unfortunately the Democrats are just as guilty as the Republicans. We need to get rid of BOTH parties. I have long been an advocate of getting rid of both parties and starting over, but dondub is right. NOBODY in our history has ever taken the idea of "be proud of doing absolutely nothing" anywhere near as far as the current crop of Republicans.
To a large extent it is due to the election of Obama in 2008 and the tremendous rise of right-wing radio and Fox News. No matter what Obama did, there was going to be a huge force aligned against him. Part (though likely nowhere near a majority) of it was racial in nature. More (I would guess) was due to the economic collapse and to the anger fomented by right-wing media. This combination led to GOP control of Congress in 2010, which allowed the ridiculous process of redistricting to ensure 100-200 far-right districts. This in turn ensured GOP control for a decade with no real reason to ever negotiate, and many unqualified representatives with zero interest in negotiation.
The best thing for this country now would be for: 1. Obama to nominate, and the Senate to confirm, a moderate justice. This would prevent an ideologue of either side from being named later. 2. Clinton would win the election, preventing the wholesale decimation of rights and privileges of anyone not a wealthy, white, Christian male by a Republican rubber-stamp in the White House. 3. The economy to recover and prosper, preventing a spirit of anger from rolling even more far-right ideologues into Congress in 2020. To have the same people in charge of redistricting in 2020 would ensure ANOTHER decade of "do-nothingness" (under a Democratic president) or stupid and dangerous policies (under a Republican one) that we can't afford.
Governing is serious business, and it requires serious people. Too many, particularly on the far-right, are not. And it shows.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2016 21:46:38 GMT -5
Sorry, Richard, but I don't see the same 'sit on their hands' behavior from the Demos, nor their professed dislike of the government that pays them well, gives them awesome health insurance, and great pensions. We need men and women that come into these offices with a real desire to work across the aisle to get shit accomplished. The Repos have an entire clusterfuck of congress critters that do nothing except rip us off. Oh they definitely don't have the same "sit on your hands" attitude. I agree with you there. The problem is they have a worse version of the exact opposite: "Do stuff, don't worry about the effects of it... just do it". But the complete content of the post about Could be easily re-written to apply to Democrats by just doing the following edits:
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 1, 2016 22:15:53 GMT -5
The increased obstruction of judicial nominees actually became a larger issue with the GOP Congress under Bill Clinton. Was the subsequent increase under Bush revenge for that? I don't know. It could also have been a reaction to more partisan nominees, but I don't have a truly informed answer to that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2016 22:26:32 GMT -5
The increased obstruction of judicial nominees actually became a larger issue with the GOP Congress under Bill Clinton. Was the subsequent increase under Bush revenge for that? I don't know. It could also have been a reaction to more partisan nominees, but I don't have a truly informed answer to that. It could be... but my point was this: Both sides are guilty of it.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Mar 1, 2016 22:31:16 GMT -5
No doubt, but the statement that Democrats started it in 2001 prompted my objection.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2016 22:40:03 GMT -5
No doubt, but the statement that Democrats started it in 2001 prompted my objection. That wasn't the statement though. In 2001 they changed the process. That doesn't mean that they started anything.
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Mar 2, 2016 1:53:58 GMT -5
Richard....your post #540 attributed to me comments that had been posted by tallguy. Please be careful enough to differentiate and also please don't "quote" me again if it's something I never said...which you have done before. TYIA.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 2, 2016 10:52:39 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 2, 2016 11:12:35 GMT -5
the big problem for Rubio and Cruz is not Super Tuesday- it is March 15th.
March 15th has two huge winner-take-all prizes: Ohio and Florida. Trump leads both of them. Kasich and Rubio need to win those states, imo. if they DO, Dumpster Fire is going to have a very tough time getting the nomination. if the DO NOT, then he is going to probably win it. it is that simple.
here is the polling in Ohio:
Trump = 30 Kasich = 27 Cruz = 18
Kasich is totally within striking distance. this one is currently too close to call, but i think Kasich will win it.
here is the polling in FL:
Trump = 40 Rubio = 21 Cruz = 16
it is hard to imagine how Rubio comes back from that deficit, but his campaign insists that he will.
the good news, and it is minimal for him- is that he is now in 2nd place. the bad news is that BOTH Rubio AND Trump are rising in the polls.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 2, 2016 11:32:26 GMT -5
i thought i would add one more thing to this thread before we continue.
there is a good chance the nomination will hinge on the last primaries this year. i have decided to NOT renounce my GOP registration until after the primary this year. there is a good chance that we will decide the nominee this year, and i want to make sure i can vote against Trump, if that is the case.
i never thought it would come to this, i will admit. i figured Trump would be long gone. but some find his circus act voteworthy, i guess.
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