billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 18, 2015 14:40:59 GMT -5
I was seeing "gun nuts" as a subset of "gun owners". I know many gun owners who do not base gun purchases on the political climate. I have no problem with calling those who do "gun nuts". I would encourage people to purchase the guns that they need for hunting or protection and relax. I agree with those reasons for purchase as they are my own. I can also see that a possible restriction can drive a sale because they want a certain type of weapon that might be outlawed sooner than later. I can also see that gun companies will use that fear of restriction as a marketing approach to more sales. i.e. things that would motivate a "nut". ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/charmed.png)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2015 14:46:14 GMT -5
I took a collective guilt summation because of the phrase "one of their own". Being a law abiding gun owner, I take offense at being lumped together with a criminal (s). No different than you being referenced as a killer because a person drove their car into crowd and killed people and you also drive. I'm aware of possible gun control measures as a driver of weapon sales. You take offense at being lumped in with criminals. Totally understandable. I am guessing most moderate Muslims feel the same way. And they should. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png) I don't know how to separate the moderates from the radicals of anything. That's why I don't wish to be disarmed like the citizens of France. I don't go into gun free zones, ever.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Nov 18, 2015 16:05:45 GMT -5
I took a collective guilt summation because of the phrase "one of their own". Being a law abiding gun owner, I take offense at being lumped together with a criminal (s). No different than you being referenced as a killer because a person drove their car into crowd and killed people and you also drive. I'm aware of possible gun control measures as a driver of weapon sales. You take offense at being lumped in with criminals. Totally understandable. I am guessing most moderate Muslims feel the same way. Here's your "moderate Muslims".
They believe in keeping the genders separate, stoning women and chopping off hands. They believe all laws in the Quran should be strictly adhered to.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Nov 18, 2015 16:06:54 GMT -5
ISIS supporters in France just stabbed a Jewish teacher in the stomach. It's on CNN.
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wyouser
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Post by wyouser on Nov 18, 2015 16:15:30 GMT -5
ISIS supporters in France just stabbed a Jewish teacher in the stomach. It's on CNN. It is only a matter of time until (to use an old phrase from Ma Bell) they "reach out and touch someone".....here. They are, after all, already among us.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 18, 2015 17:05:31 GMT -5
ISIS supporters in France just stabbed a Jewish teacher in the stomach. It's on CNN. It is only a matter of time until (to use an old phrase from Ma Bell) they "reach out and touch someone".....here. They are, after all, already among us. are you scared, wy?
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Nov 18, 2015 17:19:28 GMT -5
It is only a matter of time until (to use an old phrase from Ma Bell) they "reach out and touch someone".....here. They are, after all, already among us. are you scared, wy? Really? Scared? Not me. I am scared of people in America who cannot see what is happening and still blaming Christians for it. Strike that. I am scared for people in America who cannot see what is happening in the world as well as here in America. I am scared "for them" because they are responsible for President Obama and six years of increasing tensions between Islam and the rest of the world Now we have a President who is spending more time dissing Americans than he is our potential enemy. I dislike using enemy, but feel free to give me a better descriptive word. I understand how President Obama cannot give the citizens all the behind the scene actions we are taking, but stop dissing Republicans and those "Bible clutching gun toting citizens".
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 18, 2015 17:24:18 GMT -5
Really? Scared? Not me. me neither. not about radical Islam, anyway.I am scared of people in America who cannot see what is happening and still blaming Christians for it. i have no idea what you are talking about. i blame radical Islamists for radical Islam. period.Strike that. I am scared for people in America who cannot see what is happening in the world as well as here in America. me too. our descent into fascism terrifies me. so much, that i might have to quit this board, and spend my time productively fighting it.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 18, 2015 17:35:07 GMT -5
Did you watch the video I posted? It's got footage of (literally) entire trains full of refugees chanting "Death to Germany! Allahu Akbar!" It's got rape, violence, and employment statistics that should make your blood run cold. It points out that many of the "Syrian" refugees aren't in fact from Syria. Officials have no idea who's who, no documentation is required, hence eager radicals from all over Africa and the Middle East are taking advantage. If you want to see what they do to the neighbourhoods and houses that take them in, there's a segment on that too. ok. i watched it. yeah, Germany has a serious problem. maybe Sweden, too. now i have a question for YOU: do you think there is ANY (as in, greater than 0%) chance of something similar happening in the US or Canada? If you mean complete cultural suicide in the space of a generation or two: no. But just because we're not swilling cyanide doesn't make drinking a teaspoon full any wiser. If you mean an attack in the US on the scale of what we saw in Paris last week, I think there's a 100 - epsilon percent chance of that happening, where epsilon is a very small number. If it doesn't happen, it's because the would-be responsible parties can't pull it off, not because they don't want to.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on Nov 18, 2015 17:37:01 GMT -5
I wonder if our Secretary sees the "rationale" in stabbing a Jew? ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/sarcasm.png)
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 18, 2015 17:38:15 GMT -5
ok. i watched it. yeah, Germany has a serious problem. maybe Sweden, too. now i have a question for YOU: do you think there is ANY (as in, greater than 0%) chance of something similar happening in the US or Canada? If you mean complete cultural suicide in the space of a generation or two: no. But just because we're not swilling cyanide doesn't make drinking a teaspoon full any wiser. If you mean an attack in the US on the scale of what we saw in Paris last week, I think there's a 100 - epsilon percent chance of that happening, where epsilon is a very small number. If it doesn't happen, it's because the would-be responsible parties can't pull it off, not because they don't want to. neither of those answers quite cover it, but #1 is much closer. i have no doubt about us experiencing an attack similar or greater to Paris. none whatsoever. i have been saying that since March of 2003. so, after 12 years of that, i am glad that everyone else is catching up. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 18, 2015 17:49:07 GMT -5
I wonder if our Secretary sees the "rationale" in stabbing a Jew? ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/sarcasm.png) I don't know. I get what he's trying to say. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/undecided.png) Charlie Hebdo was making a very conscious effort to stir the pot and assert their freedom of speech. The venues attacked last week weren't making any kind of political stand. Sec. Kerry could have phrased this more diplomatically, but he's correct. With Charlie Hebdo, we at least understand what specifically provoked the attack. We understand the rationale. For the bombings last week, we have no clear idea why these venues were targeted. Other than "causing terror generally", there's no rationale for the attack. The difference is important because until now I'm sure many Frenchmen preferred to believe "if I'm not publishing offensive cartoons, I have nothing to fear". Helas, non monsieur.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Nov 18, 2015 17:50:39 GMT -5
ok. i watched it. yeah, Germany has a serious problem. maybe Sweden, too. now i have a question for YOU: do you think there is ANY (as in, greater than 0%) chance of something similar happening in the US or Canada? If you mean complete cultural suicide in the space of a generation or two: no. But just because we're not swilling cyanide doesn't make drinking a teaspoon full any wiser. If you mean an attack in the US on the scale of what we saw in Paris last week, I think there's a 100 - epsilon percent chance of that happening, where epsilon is a very small number. If it doesn't happen, it's because the would-be responsible parties can't pull it off, not because they don't want to. They already tried to blow up bridges and railroads in Canada, killing untold numbers of people. They failed.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 18, 2015 17:52:15 GMT -5
I wonder if our Secretary sees the "rationale" in stabbing a Jew? ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/sarcasm.png) Makes perfect sense to me. What he can't, unfortunately, say is the Charlie Hebdo murders were not terrorism. Friday's attacks were terrorism.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 18, 2015 18:50:01 GMT -5
I wonder if our Secretary sees the "rationale" in stabbing a Jew? ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/sarcasm.png) Makes perfect sense to me. What he can't, unfortunately, say is the Charlie Hebdo murders were not terrorism. Friday's attacks were terrorism. Saying that Charlie Hebdo wasn't terrorism is a leg too far. Yes, it was retribution for slights against Islam's prophet, but the execution was spectacular (in the sense of being a spectacle) by design. The perpetrators wanted the world to know: this is what happens to you when you insult our prophet. That's the sine qua non of terrorism. Simple retribution is three guys in plain clothes with ordinary handguns. Two guard the exits. The third herds everyone in the building into a windowless room, locks them inside, douses the floor with gasoline, torches the building, and walks away with his comrades while the enemies of Islam burn to death. No spectacle. No shootout at OK Corral.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Nov 18, 2015 19:03:11 GMT -5
Makes perfect sense to me. What he can't, unfortunately, say is the Charlie Hebdo murders were not terrorism. Friday's attacks were terrorism. Saying that Charlie Hebdo wasn't terrorism is a leg too far. Yes, it was retribution for slights against Islam's prophet, but the execution was spectacular (in the sense of being a spectacle) by design. The perpetrators wanted the world to know: this is what happens to you when you insult our prophet. That's the sine qua non of terrorism. Simple retribution is three guys in plain clothes with ordinary handguns. Two guard the exits. The third herds everyone in the building into a windowless room, locks them inside, douses the floor with gasoline, torches the building, and walks away with his comrades while the enemies of Islam burn to death. No spectacle. No shootout at OK Corral. Please do not forget the Jewish store. This was more than a political killing. Kerry and our President have become stone deaf in making their comments this week.
Sad, very sad.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 18, 2015 19:33:43 GMT -5
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 18, 2015 19:50:16 GMT -5
Makes perfect sense to me. What he can't, unfortunately, say is the Charlie Hebdo murders were not terrorism. Friday's attacks were terrorism. Saying that Charlie Hebdo wasn't terrorism is a leg too far. Yes, it was retribution for slights against Islam's prophet, but the execution was spectacular (in the sense of being a spectacle) by design. The perpetrators wanted the world to know: this is what happens to you when you insult our prophet. That's the sine qua non of terrorism. ... Yes, necessary but not sufficient.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 18, 2015 19:52:18 GMT -5
To wit: "Europe's threat is radicalization. America doesn't have that problem." Thanks Matt Fisher, Vox, and thinkprogress.org, for the tireless hours you put in writing op eds, working until America does have that problem. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/rolleyes.gif)
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 18, 2015 19:52:45 GMT -5
Saying that Charlie Hebdo wasn't terrorism is a leg too far. Yes, it was retribution for slights against Islam's prophet, but the execution was spectacular (in the sense of being a spectacle) by design. The perpetrators wanted the world to know: this is what happens to you when you insult our prophet. That's the sine qua non of terrorism. ... Yes, necessary but not sufficient. What elements are lacking?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 18, 2015 20:14:58 GMT -5
To wit: "Europe's threat is radicalization. America doesn't have that problem." Thanks Matt Fisher, Vox, and thinkprogress.org, for the tireless hours you put in writing op eds, working until America does have that problem. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/rolleyes.gif) so, you summarize using 1/6th of the whole? wow. i have to remember that one. i think everyone should read the other five points, rather than taking your "summary". or plug their ears and cover their eyes, and run around in an angry fog. whatever they like best, i guess. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) edit: EBOLA!!!!
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 18, 2015 20:23:39 GMT -5
Yes, necessary but not sufficient. What elements are lacking? The creation of feelings of terror in the general population. As you pointed out, there was a if/then element. If I don't, then I can relax.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Nov 18, 2015 22:44:04 GMT -5
That's very reassuring. The US takes up to two years to vet refugees. We're expecting 25,000 before Christmas.
The US doesn't have a problem with radicalization? Canada most certainly does.
If you don't take them in, you help ISIS. If we DO take them in, we hurt us. I told you about how they "integrate" up here. It's problem after problem after problem.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 18, 2015 22:52:22 GMT -5
That's very reassuring. The US takes up to two years to vet refugees. We're expecting 25,000 before Christmas.
The US doesn't have a problem with radicalization? Canada most certainly does.
If you don't take them in, you help ISIS. If we DO take them in, we hurt us. I told you about how they "integrate" up here. It's problem after problem after problem.
yeah, just to let you know, weltz- i am not speaking to your problem any longer. i probably shouldn't have included you in the argument in the first place. i will stick with what i know from now on. you guys have your own issues, and can deal with them in your own way. i apologize, and good luck.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 18, 2015 23:57:54 GMT -5
What elements are lacking? The creation of feelings of terror in the general population. As you pointed out, there was a if/then element. If I don't, then I can relax. By that definition, ecoterrorists bombing corporate offices and animal testing laboratories, etc. doesn't count as terrorism. Nor does bombing of abortion clinics. Nor do attacks on black Christian churches, news reporters, pro-gun-control senators, or a hundred flavours of violent political activism besides that the US government (and governments around the world) clearly label "domestic terrorism". We can quibble over the line between violent political activism and terrorism in our online sandbox, I suppose, but the fact remains that Charlie Hebdo was very clearly terrorism as the world (including the US State Department) defines terrorism.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 19, 2015 0:20:34 GMT -5
The creation of feelings of terror in the general population. As you pointed out, there was a if/then element. If I don't, then I can relax. By that definition, ecoterrorists bombing corporate offices and animal testing laboratories, etc. doesn't count as terrorism. Nor does bombing of abortion clinics. Nor do attacks on black Christian churches, news reporters, pro-gun-control senators, or a hundred flavours of violent political activism besides that the US government (and governments around the world) clearly label "domestic terrorism". We can quibble over the line between violent political activism and terrorism in our online sandbox, I suppose, but the fact remains that Charlie Hebdo was very clearly terrorism as the world (including the US State Department) defines terrorism. i agree with bills here, though i do see your point, Virgil. i think that the Hebdo bombing was homicide. the target was very specific, and for a "grievance". that is not typically what terrorism is for. terrorism is used to motivate opinion through fear. it is designed to be random, not to hit specific civilian or military targets, for maximum effect. i realize that the differences are subtle, but i think they are there.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 19, 2015 1:06:16 GMT -5
The creation of feelings of terror in the general population. As you pointed out, there was a if/then element. If I don't, then I can relax. By that definition, ecoterrorists bombing corporate offices and animal testing laboratories, etc. doesn't count as terrorism. Nor does bombing of abortion clinics. Nor do attacks on black Christian churches, news reporters, pro-gun-control senators, or a hundred flavours of violent political activism besides that the US government (and governments around the world) clearly label "domestic terrorism". We can quibble over the line between violent political activism and terrorism in our online sandbox, I suppose, but the fact remains that Charlie Hebdo was very clearly terrorism as the world (including the US State Department) defines terrorism. Yeah, calling many different things "terrorism" has its advantages.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Nov 19, 2015 7:47:30 GMT -5
By that definition, ecoterrorists bombing corporate offices and animal testing laboratories, etc. doesn't count as terrorism. Nor does bombing of abortion clinics. Nor do attacks on black Christian churches, news reporters, pro-gun-control senators, or a hundred flavours of violent political activism besides that the US government (and governments around the world) clearly label "domestic terrorism". We can quibble over the line between violent political activism and terrorism in our online sandbox, I suppose, but the fact remains that Charlie Hebdo was very clearly terrorism as the world (including the US State Department) defines terrorism. Yeah, calling many different things "terrorism" has its advantages. Might I suggest then that if you ever become the US Secretary of State and, during your tenure, machine-gun-wielding commandos gun down a dozen civilians guilty of drawing cartoons, you refer to the act as "terrorism" rather than pointing out that too few people were terrorized by the act for it to officially count. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/undecided.png)
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 19, 2015 8:01:25 GMT -5
I'm sorry but where does anyone get off killing anyone over a cartoon and this is okay because they're "offended?" Get the F out of a decent country and back to your own cesspool if you want to worship a pedophile.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Nov 19, 2015 10:08:58 GMT -5
Let's confine this conversation to national issues and leave the religious affiliation out of it. While we may assume all those fleeing are Muslims, they're probably not. What we should be talking about is refugees fleeing war in Syria. We can even discuss Daesh (ISIS), which is a terrorist organization, not a religion. Let's just not get into calling names or denigrating religions and their beliefs and iconic figures, please. Thanks.
mmhmm, Administrator
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