Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Nov 8, 2015 21:58:36 GMT -5
I'm surprised they helped you.
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bobosensei
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Post by bobosensei on Nov 9, 2015 3:50:06 GMT -5
The next time you see those guys ask them why they didn't stay for the ceremony. There might be a few that had a legit reason for leaving, there might be a few when they have to answer you realize that they were ridiculous and will change their ways, and the rest don't deserve your friendship. I am sorry that you were such a good friend to so many of them only to find out that they neither respected you nor cared about you. That really sucks.
I'm into hiking. I read a book about Jennifer Pharr Davis who held the record for the fastest thru hike of the Appalachian Trail for several years. After she smashed the man who held the record before her people started trivializing the accomplishment, saying stuff like a supported hike (where you have a team carting your gear from campsite to campsite) isn't "real" backpacking. Well there were plenty of people who thought so when a man was best at it. Just a few months ago the ultra marathoner distance runner, Scott Jurek, broke her record, and people aren't saying that crap now. It's like a competitive sport can only really be a sport if a man is best. To top it off the behavior of Jurek and his huge crew atop the mountain broke some park rules, and relations with the Baxter State Park people were already rocky. Now they are talking about rerouting the Appalachian Trail because they are sick of the way people act. Jurek's behavior might ruin the trail for lots of other people, but no one cares. He is getting total support from everyone for trying to have some kind of rock star victory party for a sport that people were poo pooing until he announced he was going to go for the record. It's gross.
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lund
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Post by lund on Nov 9, 2015 5:36:55 GMT -5
Congratulations on your steady improvement and on your win! Sad that these guys behaved so badly.
Continue to win and see how they react. Continue to be nice to other newcomers; that may make other women try your sport.
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milee
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Post by milee on Nov 9, 2015 6:36:32 GMT -5
I'm not at all dismissing what you're saying, but a lot of guys are just sore losers. I wouldn't take it too personally. I think this is an interesting point. Have their been occurrences when they've ignored a male winner who was new to the group?I don't know, hasn't happened. Most of the other times a guy buys this boat, he's already a pretty great sailor in some other similar type of boat. So his skill level is known from that. Once he gets up to speed on the nuances of this boat, his skills are usually about where they were for other types of sailing - college level skill, national level skill, hacker, whatever. So there's not a huge amount of place shifting among the guys once they know the boat; one could have a particularly great day, a few good shifts or get a superstar crew on board and win something that they usually place 3rd in, but other than that the placing is reasonably consistent.
I've been the only one to get one of these things as their first keelboat, so basically learned all my "big" boat sailing on it. And yes, it was pretty ugly at first and that's probably part of it. A few years ago, I was a true beginner and at regattas they were patiently waiting for me to finish each race long after everybody else.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Nov 9, 2015 7:21:29 GMT -5
Congratulations, sorry about the little boys who were beat by a girl, their dads must be so ashamed, how can they let girls beat them?
I worked for a software company where the owner said he would never hire a woman CFO. When the CFO quit they had a temp who was female then she quit to take a real job and they tried to offer her the job. Then they promoted a woman software support to the CFO job. I guess he figured out it didn't matter but it is so hard to get men to see woman as powerful sometimes. The last CFO I worked for was there 45 years and replaced by a woman, she is pretty young and the president is 70 so maybe she can be the next president in a shipyard, pretty unheard of.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2015 8:40:33 GMT -5
I'm angry at this. But if I'm honest, the anger probably stems mostly from hurt. I can't help the fact that I'm small and female. I can only control how competent I am. And I thought that becoming competent would be enough. But it's not. Even when I prove that I'm competent, I will not ever really be part of the guy group if I compete as an equal, nor will I be respected in the same way that they are if I do compete as an equal. And it sucks. And it makes me really angry.
Hmmm, that's a sentiment I've heard a million times. Judging from my experience, if you talked about this with a predominately male group, a lot of them will insist that it isn't true even if your experience says otherwise. Or they'll tell you you're just being sensitive and making things up.... so it's still not true. Or they'll point out some women that have risen to the top of their field or their sport, to make the point that the struggle for women to be recognized as equals is over..... so what you're saying can't possibly be true. The funny (not ha ha funny) thing is that even with all your hard work, you still needed a man with an open mind on your team to help you be successful and eventually win. Obviously there are men that don't have a problem with working with women that are about their business, because you found one to work with you. And there are men that can celebrate women's accomplishments without reservations about them being women, because the crowd at the awards ceremony cheered for your team. But none of that changes the realities of how you feel, what you expressed in the bolded paragraph above, because those feelings lingered even after all the good stuff. Everything was fine with your "friends" as long as you stayed in your place..... last. It started changing when your team started to show that you're just as capable as they are and they started having to take you seriously. Yup, sounds familiar. Same game, different players. That's just life sometimes and the answer is the same. Just keep doing what you do and working hard to accomplish what you want. Some people will look at you and see a great sailor, some people will look at you and only see a woman, and be unable to get past your gender to recognize the great sailor. You're a great sailor who just happens to be a woman, and some people are just stupid. Fortunately for you, the haters can't stop you from excelling at your chosen sport, so don't let them get you down or ruin the joy you find in sailing. Congratulations on your win!
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Nov 9, 2015 8:54:39 GMT -5
Congratulations on winning!! I agree that it does truly suck. As others have said I guess they aren't confident in their own abilities. It's obvious you really like this so keep on winning. They'll have to deal.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Nov 9, 2015 14:33:53 GMT -5
Congratulations on your victory! It may have been a "small local" regatta, but it sounds as though it was against some tough competition and was a well earned win of which you can be proud. Great!
Those guys that didn't stick around for your ceremony are asses.
In our penny ante golf club one of our best members was a female. Since she was there when I joined I didn't see her early years interacting with the big boys, but by the time I joined she was well respected. I know golf tournaments aren't quite as head to head between the sexes as in sailing, but there is still quite a bit of interaction and member- member mixed events. Her skill spoke for itself.
Keep on running hard and placing well. The sour ba$tards will have to eat their crow eventually. You may even see another female crew or two over time. (surprised there aren't now!) And it may not be easy at first- but ignore the sore losers who really are just Losers in the end.
Again, congrats on what must have been an absolutely exhilarating win. I want to add my Congratulations to everyone else's. When I read this earlier I thought to myself "DH wouldn't act like that". I have to hope the guys will come around. Maybe they will want their daughters to have the opportunities you have paved the way for them. When I started to think of what the Men would want for their daughters, I wondered about your Dad - is he still living? My Dad would have loved telling the story of how his Daughter was the BEST! It probably would have been embellished to the point of you being the next anointed Olympian or something, but at least you would know how Proud he was of you!
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lexxy703
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Post by lexxy703 on Nov 9, 2015 14:53:02 GMT -5
Congratulations Milee. Maybe the embarrassed losers weren't so embarrassed because you were females but that just a few years ago it was all you could do to complete the race. Either way it was uncool & unsportsmanlike of them to leave before the awards ceremony.
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janee
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Post by janee on Nov 10, 2015 14:08:22 GMT -5
Congrats on your win! That's wonderful.
I'm sorry, it seems they are sore losers. Is there any chance there's another explanation? One driver, car pool, dinner was extra long? I'm just hoping there's another explanation for a poor performance on their part.
Because my husband and I are long time sailors, what boat do you have, if you don't mind sharing? We were cruisers from 22 years, first with a trailerable 16' day sailer, than a 27' Tartan, then a 34' Tartan. When we got married, we decided to take up a sport that neither one of us knew anything about. My husband had been a life guard, grew up on the water in CT, and been around power boats his whole life. Learning to sail together was a lot of fun and we met some great friends. The cruising lifestyle was great, we vacationed and every weekend were somewhere out on the boat.
We didn't do much racing. There was one time at a rally on Long Island we raced our Tartan 27. We thought it was a friendly race, only to find people emptying their water tanks, leaving gear on the docks, etc. We had one of the smallest boats in the group and thought we did really poorly, coming in dead last. My husband thought he would have to go to the dinner with a bag over his head. Imagine our surprise to learn we came in 5th (out of about 25 boats) due to PHRF (handicap for different size boats) ratings!
Our big boat sailing days are over. We now have a JY15 which is a great little boat for our lake.
Enjoy your win!
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milee
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Post by milee on Nov 10, 2015 16:30:23 GMT -5
Janee, I sent you a PM with the boat type. Enjoy your JY.
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Anne_in_VA
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Post by Anne_in_VA on Nov 10, 2015 16:55:20 GMT -5
Mile - I'm jealous! My Ex and I had a Catalina 27 a number of years ago that we sailed out of Mystic, CT. We never did any racing, but I like led being on that boat (although not necessarily every weekend and vacation!
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milee
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Post by milee on Nov 10, 2015 17:04:23 GMT -5
We were just in NY for the National Championship which was sailed in Long Island Sound. Although it was really cool to be on a race course with the NY skyline as a background, us Florida girls thought it was very, very cold. The last two days of the regatta, we chipped ice off the cars in the morning.
Unfortunately, the type of boat we sail is a "wet" boat, meaning that when you're racing, you get splashed and it's not unusual to capsize either. Three of the four days were so windy that dozens of the boats (including 4 of the top 5) "broached" (which is the fancy term for tipped over into the water). So we were in wet suit type gear for most of the regatta and eventually for the last few days, even went to wearing dry suits. Yikes. If I lived up there, I wouldn't have this type of boat.
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milee
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Post by milee on Nov 10, 2015 17:55:08 GMT -5
As a follow up, today at the club I ran into the newest owner who raced in the regatta. After a little small talk I casually said, "it's too bad you and your crew couldn't hang around to talk after the regatta on Saturday." He looked a little sheepish and said that it was just so hot, he headed home. To be fair, it is unseasonably warm here and the social events were partly held around the pool area.
But, right after he said that, he also started saying some very complimentary things about how fast we were in the regatta. He asked some technical questions, we talked about some strategies and techniques. Then he wanted to look at the way I have certain things set up on the boat and we talked about types of fittings, lines and placement. It was pretty awesome. I love talking about that stuff with someone who's obviously knowledgeable (he previously raced and did very well in a similar sport boat) and it was the exact type of talk the guys have. We're talking about going sailing on Sunday so I can show him some down wind go-fast tricks.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Nov 10, 2015 18:54:18 GMT -5
Milee - congrats on improving and on your win!! Awesome job. I have had a similar experience--- Back in the good old days, I used to play Div 1A college soccer... so, I'm pretty good. After college I played in a lot of pick up and indoor leagues. Most of these are co-ed because it's hard to have women's leagues that get enough players. So 90% of the time I played co-ed. I always laughed because these hot shot dudes would try to dribble right by me, or if I stepped up to take the free kick they wouldn't bother trying to stand in my way. After I rocketed a few goals past them and took the ball away from them like they were asleep - they would change their tune, and not in a good way. Usually they'd start fouling me - or kicking me ridiculously hard trying to tackle the ball away. Guys would tell me they were going to snap my leg in half if I didn't get out of their way. It was amazing how angry and pissed off they were that a girl (small, too) could screw up their chance to be super awesome at 10:30 on a Thursday night in a coed beer drinking soccer league. And the refs that are getting paid $5 an hour weren't going to really stop any serious violence. So, basically I stopped playing. It wasn't worth risking getting permanently injured; I'm one of the few women I know that played serious soccer without having to have knee surgery. I'd like to keep it that way. So; I quit. Kind of lame, but true. But I'm not sad. I had my hay-day and my days in the sun so to speak. For these dudes, beer league indoor soccer is going to be the pinnacle of their soccer careers; it wasn't the pinnacle of mine. I picked up other hobbies.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Nov 10, 2015 22:39:26 GMT -5
I have tried to come up with a response, but... I get it, and it sucks. Hope they get over it soon.
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Lizard Queen
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103/2024
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Post by Lizard Queen on Nov 11, 2015 10:02:01 GMT -5
I've never been much of an athlete in a general sense, but I did play ice hockey in the backyard. My brother's friends would insult some of the other guys by saying, "look, she's better than you!" Um, yeah, I can skate and I play all of the time. Why wouldn't I be better than someone who doesn't? It's like, by default I shouldn't be just because I'm a girl.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Nov 11, 2015 10:18:16 GMT -5
We were just in NY for the National Championship which was sailed in Long Island Sound. Although it was really cool to be on a race course with the NY skyline as a background, us Florida girls thought it was very, very cold. The last two days of the regatta, we chipped ice off the cars in the morning.
Unfortunately, the type of boat we sail is a "wet" boat, meaning that when you're racing, you get splashed and it's not unusual to capsize either. Three of the four days were so windy that dozens of the boats (including 4 of the top 5) "broached" (which is the fancy term for tipped over into the water). So we were in wet suit type gear for most of the regatta and eventually for the last few days, even went to wearing dry suits. Yikes. If I lived up there, I wouldn't have this type of boat. pansy.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Nov 11, 2015 10:19:03 GMT -5
I've never been much of an athlete in a general sense, but I did play ice hockey in the backyard. My brother's friends would insult some of the other guys by saying, "look, she's better than you!" Um, yeah, I can skate and I play all of the time. Why wouldn't I be better than someone who doesn't? It's like, by default I shouldn't be just because I'm a girl. classic backyard burns.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Nov 11, 2015 10:21:28 GMT -5
We were just in NY for the National Championship which was sailed in Long Island Sound. Although it was really cool to be on a race course with the NY skyline as a background, us Florida girls thought it was very, very cold. The last two days of the regatta, we chipped ice off the cars in the morning.
Unfortunately, the type of boat we sail is a "wet" boat, meaning that when you're racing, you get splashed and it's not unusual to capsize either. Three of the four days were so windy that dozens of the boats (including 4 of the top 5) "broached" (which is the fancy term for tipped over into the water). So we were in wet suit type gear for most of the regatta and eventually for the last few days, even went to wearing dry suits. Yikes. If I lived up there, I wouldn't have this type of boat. You were in Lawn Guylind and didn't even wave?
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milee
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Post by milee on Nov 11, 2015 11:26:45 GMT -5
We were just in NY for the National Championship which was sailed in Long Island Sound. Although it was really cool to be on a race course with the NY skyline as a background, us Florida girls thought it was very, very cold. The last two days of the regatta, we chipped ice off the cars in the morning.
Unfortunately, the type of boat we sail is a "wet" boat, meaning that when you're racing, you get splashed and it's not unusual to capsize either. Three of the four days were so windy that dozens of the boats (including 4 of the top 5) "broached" (which is the fancy term for tipped over into the water). So we were in wet suit type gear for most of the regatta and eventually for the last few days, even went to wearing dry suits. Yikes. If I lived up there, I wouldn't have this type of boat. You were in Lawn Guylind and didn't even wave? We weren't in or on LI, we were across from it looking at it. (I think - the geography up there is very confusing for me.)
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milee
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Post by milee on Nov 11, 2015 11:29:32 GMT -5
We were just in NY for the National Championship which was sailed in Long Island Sound. Although it was really cool to be on a race course with the NY skyline as a background, us Florida girls thought it was very, very cold. The last two days of the regatta, we chipped ice off the cars in the morning.
Unfortunately, the type of boat we sail is a "wet" boat, meaning that when you're racing, you get splashed and it's not unusual to capsize either. Three of the four days were so windy that dozens of the boats (including 4 of the top 5) "broached" (which is the fancy term for tipped over into the water). So we were in wet suit type gear for most of the regatta and eventually for the last few days, even went to wearing dry suits. Yikes. If I lived up there, I wouldn't have this type of boat. pansy. Yep. As it got progressively colder, one of the guys from that area gave us a tip - get one of those Thermacare heat patches and wear it under your gear. I looked at the Thermacare heat patches, declared them to be GENIOUS and bought a case of them. The last day, my team and I had those suckers stuck all over ourselves. I think I must have been wearing at least 9 or 10 of them in various places from head to toe. When we first started sailing that day, I was actually a little hot. If you look at the pictures of the regatta, we're the only group that looks warm and happy that last day. And there may have been a little steam rising off of us...
That was yet another day our lone guy discovered it's good to be with the girl team. We not only gave him Thermacare patches, but took him shopping to buy fleece long underwear. So he was toasty and happy, unlike the rest of the crazy, shivering macho guys in their single layers. He was quite happy to be part of our toasty team.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Nov 11, 2015 11:34:22 GMT -5
I'm totally trying that for my next too cold for this shit why am I here football game.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Nov 11, 2015 11:52:13 GMT -5
pansy. Yep. As it got progressively colder, one of the guys from that area gave us a tip - get one of those Thermacare heat patches and wear it under your gear. I looked at the Thermacare heat patches, declared them to be GENIOUS and bought a case of them. The last day, my team and I had those suckers stuck all over ourselves. I think I must have been wearing at least 9 or 10 of them in various places from head to toe. When we first started sailing that day, I was actually a little hot. If you look at the pictures of the regatta, we're the only group that looks warm and happy that last day. And there may have been a little steam rising off of us...
That was yet another day our lone guy discovered it's good to be with the girl team. We not only gave him Thermacare patches, but took him shopping to buy fleece long underwear. So he was toasty and happy, unlike the rest of the crazy, shivering macho guys in their single layers. He was quite happy to be part of our toasty team.
You can also buy all sorts of things to keep you toasty warm, similar to Thermacare patches, at Gander Mountain.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Nov 11, 2015 12:20:38 GMT -5
I'm just happy your team won the race, milee! Next time you see the members of the losing team, just tell them you really missed them at the awards ceremony but you're sure you'll see them there next time! Then, just keep doin' what you're doin' and beat the socks off 'em!
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 11, 2015 13:38:35 GMT -5
I've never been much of an athlete in a general sense, but I did play ice hockey in the backyard. My brother's friends would insult some of the other guys by saying, "look, she's better than you!" Um, yeah, I can skate and I play all of the time. Why wouldn't I be better than someone who doesn't? It's like, by default I shouldn't be just because I'm a girl. And the boys who are insulted learned that being bested by a girl is something they should work to not have happen if they wished to not be insulted.
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Post by mojothehelpermonkey on Nov 11, 2015 16:14:16 GMT -5
I had a male frenemy in college who liked to make snide comments to me every time I did better than him at something. When I outperformed him on tests it was because I was graded on an easier curve, even though we had the same professor. I hate how it made me doubt myself back than, but I am happy that I can reflect back and remember him as the insecure basketcase that he was.
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