TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Nov 5, 2015 20:04:59 GMT -5
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quince
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Post by quince on Nov 5, 2015 20:09:14 GMT -5
Hmm. Unilateral decision about how the future is going to go, without discussion or compromise, or the mutual respect expected from a life partner?
Gosh, I don't know. Stay or go? Difficult.
Honestly, if "his behavior used to be bearable because he was out all day" the question isn't stay or go, the question is WHY HAVEN'T YOU ALREADY GONE!?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Nov 5, 2015 20:16:15 GMT -5
Hmm. Unilateral decision about how the future is going to go, without discussion or compromise, or the mutual respect expected from a life partner? Gosh, I don't know. Stay or go? Difficult. Honestly, if "his behavior used to be bearable because he was out all day" the question isn't stay or go, the question is WHY HAVEN'T YOU ALREADY GONE!? Because she only worked part-time and couldn't support herself without him He supported her now he thinks it is her turn. I don't see the problem with that
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Nov 5, 2015 20:17:05 GMT -5
I agree with quince. It isn't like the wife was out playing golf all day while he was working full-time, & she was PT. She was raising their kids. And, I'm guessing once she stops working, the pension wouldn't support the two of them.
Run Forrest run!
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Nov 5, 2015 20:17:33 GMT -5
If he just retired without warning or discussion, we'd have serious problems.
I dunno, it seems like there are other reasons she's considering leaving.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Nov 5, 2015 20:18:33 GMT -5
Hmm. Unilateral decision about how the future is going to go, without discussion or compromise, or the mutual respect expected from a life partner? Gosh, I don't know. Stay or go? Difficult. Honestly, if "his behavior used to be bearable because he was out all day" the question isn't stay or go, the question is WHY HAVEN'T YOU ALREADY GONE!? Because she only worked part-time and couldn't support herself without him He supported her now he thinks it is her turn. I don't see the problem with that She worked part time and raised their kids - it's not the same as playing golf all day.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Nov 5, 2015 20:20:20 GMT -5
Because she only worked part-time and couldn't support herself without him He supported her now he thinks it is her turn. I don't see the problem with that She worked part time and raised their kids - it's not the same as playing golf all day. I guess it depends on what he is bringing in versus what she brought in...and either he wanted to support her fjnancially or if she refused to work full time. I don't have enough facts to form an opinion But if I worked full time and supported someone who only worked part time, I would think they owed me.
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msventoux
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Post by msventoux on Nov 5, 2015 20:28:51 GMT -5
Go. Fast.
I really doubt the guy has stepped up to the plate to take over the homemaker duties as well. If he decided he was just done working and wanted to spend his days on a golf course and still have everything taken care of by someone else at home, he would be in for a very rude awakening if it was me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2015 20:29:45 GMT -5
Hmm. Unilateral decision about how the future is going to go, without discussion or compromise, or the mutual respect expected from a life partner? Gosh, I don't know. Stay or go? Difficult. Honestly, if "his behavior used to be bearable because he was out all day" the question isn't stay or go, the question is WHY HAVEN'T YOU ALREADY GONE!? Because she only worked part-time and couldn't support herself without him He supported her now he thinks it is her turn. I don't see the problem with that She worked part time because she was also primary child care by the sounds of it. Compared to him out golfing most of the time. Nope, I would be outta there.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Nov 5, 2015 20:29:51 GMT -5
I've done both. Worked full time and been a stay-at-home mom. And, I've joked for years that at the end of the day working full time, I felt brain dead. But, at the end of a stay-at-home day, I was physically exhausted. They're both work, just different kinds. And, I get the impression that now that this guy has "retired", he's probably not cooking, cleaning, shopping, or driving his kids everywhere.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 5, 2015 20:47:30 GMT -5
Eh.
We don't know the inner workings of their marriage. We don't know if they agreed that the wife would work part time from when they were engaged, or if she had always planned to work full time and then saw her child(ren) and had a change of heart and informed her husband she wasn't working full time.
It sounds like nothing was given so we can base our decision on our own personal biases and get into mommy wars, based on the comments on the article.
Moving on....
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quince
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Post by quince on Nov 5, 2015 21:51:43 GMT -5
I would also suggest that a person should leave if their spouse decided all on their own that they were going to quit their job to be a SAHP/SAHS.
Or if their spouse decided all on their own that they were going to quit their high paying job and volunteer instead.
Or if their spouse decided that they wouldn't have kids, after all.
Or if their spouse decided they would "retire" early to be the daycare provider for grandkids.
Or if their spouse decided all on their own to move in/subsidize adult children.
ETA: or if their spouse decided to take an 80 hour a week position and dumped all child-care on them.
It is a problem with a person deciding all on their own what happens next, instead of getting the buy-in of the person they are expected do do it WITH, not with the decision itself. If the question was "I agreed that my spouse should retire early while I went back to work full time, because I thought it was fair, but all my friends are telling me otherwise, and I'm jealous of their vacations, despite the fact that I love and respect my spouse, and am enjoying that he is around more with his new found free time." I would say....find new friends.
(Also a problem with the "He was OK to be married to as long as he wasn't around" bit. Yuck.)
If she decided all on her own to work mostly part time through their relationship until this point...That was shitty of her. Him deciding to not work at all, without young kids to dedicate the time to care for, and while spending his time on a usually expensive hobby seems to kick the shittiness of the whole thing up a notch, though.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Nov 5, 2015 22:00:49 GMT -5
Does he make money playing golf? I know, it's gambling. I have known good golfers who made as much as their annual salary their golf game.
The added expenses are if he eats and drinks with the playing partners everyday. Few working people can afford that.
I couldn't find work in the economic downturn. I used to be able to win enough to pay for my season pass. Not anymore. My DH in one golf tournament could win what I worked all season for with the women.
That said, it's probably less expensive to stay put, work, build her retirement.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 5, 2015 22:02:15 GMT -5
Curious numbers. Married when he was 36. Not sure why the 17 years of work left in England, does that make her a specific age? What did each bring to the marriage since it isn't like they were just young adults when they stayed? What is the story of children in this 15 year marriage? Were they born during? If so they are still younger. Are they theirs premarriage? Just his or hers?
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bobosensei
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Post by bobosensei on Nov 6, 2015 2:47:05 GMT -5
If she is so jealous of the thought that he has more free time than her or if he is so inconsiderate that he'd stop contributing, then there is a serious problem with their marriage that won't be fixed simply by him working more or her working less.
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Nov 6, 2015 7:48:28 GMT -5
There is not enough information to even guess at advice. We could fill in enough speculation to make either one of them look good or bad.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 6, 2015 8:04:03 GMT -5
I would also suggest that a person should leave if their spouse decided all on their own that they were going to quit their job to be a SAHP/SAHS. Or if their spouse decided all on their own that they were going to quit their high paying job and volunteer instead. Or if their spouse decided that they wouldn't have kids, after all. Or if their spouse decided they would "retire" early to be the daycare provider for grandkids. Or if their spouse decided all on their own to move in/subsidize adult children. ETA: or if their spouse decided to take an 80 hour a week position and dumped all child-care on them. It is a problem with a person deciding all on their own what happens next, instead of getting the buy-in of the person they are expected do do it WITH, not with the decision itself. If the question was "I agreed that my spouse should retire early while I went back to work full time, because I thought it was fair, but all my friends are telling me otherwise, and I'm jealous of their vacations, despite the fact that I love and respect my spouse, and am enjoying that he is around more with his new found free time." I would say....find new friends. (Also a problem with the "He was OK to be married to as long as he wasn't around" bit. Yuck.) If she decided all on her own to work mostly part time through their relationship until this point...That was shitty of her. Him deciding to not work at all, without young kids to dedicate the time to care for, and while spending his time on a usually expensive hobby seems to kick the shittiness of the whole thing up a notch, though. I don't disagree with this..but you can't judge a person's behavior on someone else's lens or in a paragraph. I grew up thinking my dad was a lazy, good for nothing man. And, by that extension, that all men were lazy and pretty much good for nothing. He worked. He'd drive me around. He cleaned. He also would put away his laundry, do his own clothing repairs, do more than 50% of the outside chores and grocery shopped. My dad actually is far more domestic than my FIL. And all my mom did was complain to me about how my Dad fell short. My mom does have health issues (physical and emotional), but was largely a SAHP/W for most of their marriage. Mom said she wanted to quit working, and dad said OK. There was no discussion.. They didn't run budgets to see if it was feasible to live on one income. There was no discussion of how they were going to handle expenses down the road. I consider that to be pretty unilateral. I could totally see my mom posting the same thing as the poster. Once when my dad was talking retirement, my mom was upset that Dad was considering taking early SS for a while. Know why? Because then she'd get less money when he passed away. It wasn't even softened with "Look hon, I know you've done the work thing since you were 18. I know you want a break. You've done a good job providing for us. We have a successful kid. I've run the numbers, and it would be better for you to wait until 65 to take SS." It was your a selfish ass because you want to consider retiring early after working for 40-some years, because it could negatively affect me.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 6, 2015 8:09:12 GMT -5
Sounds like he thinks he is just entitled to sit at home at this point. And, golfing is pretty expensive so not sure how a small pension would cover that. She has said that they have had "lots of problems" so obviously there is a lot more going on here and they need marriage counseling.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Nov 6, 2015 8:52:15 GMT -5
She worked part time and raised their kids - it's not the same as playing golf all day. I guess it depends on what he is bringing in versus what she brought in...and either he wanted to support her fjnancially or if she refused to work full time. I don't have enough facts to form an opinion But if I worked full time and supported someone who only worked part time, I would think they owed me. If he had a problem with her only working PT - he should have discussed it a loooong time ago. He was a willing participant in the arraignment. She doesn't owe him anything
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 6, 2015 8:57:04 GMT -5
I guess it depends on what he is bringing in versus what she brought in...and either he wanted to support her fjnancially or if she refused to work full time. I don't have enough facts to form an opinion But if I worked full time and supported someone who only worked part time, I would think they owed me. If he had a problem with her only working PT - he should have discussed it a loooong time ago. He was a willing participant in the arraignment. She doesn't owe him anything Well, I wouldn't say either one "owes" the other. It's a marriage. You have to find a workable compromise.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Nov 6, 2015 9:03:33 GMT -5
Guys, stop being silly. We don't need any more information. We can have a 50 page thread on speculating for either side. We can do this!!! We've done it before!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Nov 6, 2015 9:06:00 GMT -5
I guess it depends on what he is bringing in versus what she brought in...and either he wanted to support her fjnancially or if she refused to work full time. I don't have enough facts to form an opinion But if I worked full time and supported someone who only worked part time, I would think they owed me. If he had a problem with her only working PT - he should have discussed it a loooong time ago. He was a willing participant in the arraignment. She doesn't owe him anything I disagree. If he was willing to support her then she should be willing to support him. At least that's my opinion. If I supported someone for a few years and then he refused to support me then I would be pissed.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Nov 6, 2015 9:11:57 GMT -5
Well, I don't think him demanding that she now support him is going to make for a very happy marriage. They can negotiate a New Normal.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Nov 6, 2015 9:20:42 GMT -5
Well, I don't think him demanding that she now support him is going to make for a very happy marriage. They can negotiate a New Normal. I'm obviously biased because I wouldn't be happy supporting someone so if I did it I would expect it in return....I'm single so what the hell do I know
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 6, 2015 9:29:28 GMT -5
I'd be pissed if DH decided on his own without discussion that he would be retiring.
The exception would be if we had so much money we wouldn't have to worry about the next 20-30 years of him not working.
It's the small pension part that concerns me. What exactly is a "small pension?". Is it enough to supplement her working full time and him being retired? Will she be able to save enough cover the pension running out? Can SHE retire after spending the next several decades being the sole income earner? Can she earn enough over time that they won't have to touch his pension till they both retire?
A lot of questions. I know quite a few people here on YM are set up so they could retire tomorrow and be just fine (allegedly) for the rest of their lives. It doesn't sound like that is the case for the letter writer.
IDK, if I stayed home with the kids that would be at most probably 13 years since by then they no longer need daycare around here. So I'd be 45 when I went back to work, I'd have at least another 20 years to to earn income and make up for lost time.
It's another if I decided at 32 I was done working forever. DH could be looking at another 30+ years of having to cover everything now AND trying to save for us both to eventually be retired. He doesn't generate that type of income. While I'd like to think we'd be the picture of good health in our old age I am not counting on it. I'd hate to have used our retirement funds while I was still young enough to work only to find we are screwed when I need that money the most.
I need to start trying to get my present minded DH to start thinking about this stuff since he is 10 years older than me. I have no problems being the full time working spouse but he'll be well into his 70's by the time I reach retirement age. I could have another 20+ years to go as a widow so we need to try our best to make sure I am in a good spot when that happens.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Nov 6, 2015 9:34:04 GMT -5
If he had a problem with her only working PT - he should have discussed it a loooong time ago. He was a willing participant in the arraignment. She doesn't owe him anything I disagree. If he was willing to support her then she should be willing to support him. At least that's my opinion. If I supported someone for a few years and then he refused to support me then I would be pissed. You can't unilaterally make decisions that impact both of you. If he came home one day and said BTW I took early retirement and today was my last day, that isn't a healthy way to have a relationship. If you are in a situation where it is a team, then both partners have to be on board with decisions. Individually, you can't make a decision that impacts both of you and just expect your spouse to fall in line because "you did your part and now it is their turn". Of course maybe the other option was to be laid off when he took early retirement.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Nov 6, 2015 9:56:44 GMT -5
I had more than a few comments when I mentioned we both work from home about how in the world that doesn't drive us crazy (it doesn't). So the comment about getting along better when they're apart more doesn't really surprise me, although that was an ugly way to put it. I think it's not an uncommon thought from a SAHS who is used to having the place to her or himself all day and will now be annoyed by their partner being around all the time as well. In fact I heard a radio show talking about how many couples love it when their spouse travels for work so they can be home alone.
There is a woman in her 60's at work who has been complaining for a year now that her husband is going to retire. He's turning 70 and she is horrified at the thought of him retiring. She has no plans to retire and doesn't think he should either. She feels she will have to support them on her 6 figure salary. It's baffling to me because the man has a high-stress job as the Chief Credit Officer of a bank and I'm sure has more than enough put aside to retire comfortably. They raised one son who is grown and live in a very modest house with no mortgage. Let the poor man retire and try to be supportive!
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jackb1117
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Post by jackb1117 on Nov 6, 2015 10:01:25 GMT -5
I disagree. If he was willing to support her then she should be willing to support him. At least that's my opinion. If I supported someone for a few years and then he refused to support me then I would be pissed. You can't unilaterally make decisions that impact both of you. If he came home one day and said BTW I took early retirement and today was my last day, that isn't a healthy way to have a relationship. If you are in a situation where it is a team, then both partners have to be on board with decisions. Individually, you can't make a decision that impacts both of you and just expect your spouse to fall in line because "you did your part and now it is their turn". Of course maybe the other option was to be laid off when he took early retirement. This. If you are making major life decisions w/o the input of the other, seems like there are more deep-seeded issues than the actual retirement (although it could be a pattern of this behavior that is putting her over the edge- this particular decision just being the straw that broke the camels back).
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Nov 6, 2015 10:14:35 GMT -5
I had more than a few comments when I mentioned we both work from home about how in the world that doesn't drive us crazy (it doesn't). So the comment about getting along better when they're apart more doesn't really surprise me, although that was an ugly way to put it. I think it's not an uncommon thought from a SAHS who is used to having the place to her or himself all day and will now be annoyed by their partner being around all the time as well. In fact I heard a radio show talking about how many couples love it when their spouse travels for work so they can be home alone. There is a woman in her 60's at work who has been complaining for a year now that her husband is going to retire. He's turning 70 and she is horrified at the thought of him retiring. She has no plans to retire and doesn't think he should either. She feels she will have to support them on her salary. It's baffling to me because the man has a high-stress job as the Chief Credit Officer of a bank and I'm sure has more than enough put aside to retire comfortable. They raised one son who is grown and live in a very modest house with no mortgage. Let the poor man retire and try to be supportive! I have an uncle that is 72 that retired twice and went back to work twice. Either that or divorce his wife or she kills Him. They have been married for over 50 years and she has been a stay at home from Day 1. She feels he is all up in her business when he is home and she has things set a certain way and here he comes trying to change it. I don't get it because my uncle is a really quiet man; but I think she is just used to seeing him a couple hours a day before bedtime or in the morning, 24/7 is a bit much for her now. She is so used (after 50 years) of running the household and making all the decisions that I don't think she is ready to just give some of it up. I have another that is 67 and he went back to work too. But for him it was because his wife turned him into her personal chauffeur/assistant. He said if he is going to get bossed around; he might as well get paid for it!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Nov 6, 2015 10:24:54 GMT -5
I disagree. If he was willing to support her then she should be willing to support him. At least that's my opinion. If I supported someone for a few years and then he refused to support me then I would be pissed. You can't unilaterally make decisions that impact both of you. If he came home one day and said BTW I took early retirement and today was my last day, that isn't a healthy way to have a relationship. If you are in a situation where it is a team, then both partners have to be on board with decisions. Individually, you can't make a decision that impacts both of you and just expect your spouse to fall in line because "you did your part and now it is their turn". Of course maybe the other option was to be laid off when he took early retirement. I think the problem with articles like this is we only see one side...and we are all biased by our own experiences and what we want. In my world, I would not support an able-bodied man. So if I did have support him for several years it would not be something I wanted or agreed to (outside of disability). we have no way of knowing if this man actually wanted her to only work part-time or not. If he didn't, then I think he has every right to expect her to support him now.
ETA: Anyone that forces their spouse to support them is foolish. I would bail on a marriage if my husband expected me to support him financially. Either way, I wouldn't be supporting him.
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