Mailing cash

[mmhmm]

Looks to me like you've come up with what seems to you to be a viable alternative story to get away with what you want to get away with, tloonya. It's illegal either way. It's fraud. Lies are often fraud. So, when you start coming up with lies so you can do what you want - think fraud first. That should help. 

[joemilitary]

Loony , will u marry me? :-)

[Tennesseer]

Be careful what you wish for.

[tloonya]

Oct 15, 2015 13:11:00 GMT -5 souldoubt said:

If I go to another country whether to visit or live I'm supposed to follow the laws of that country.  Claiming ignorance of the law isn't an excuse.  Also I believe you said that 85 year old man has been here for 20+ years.  This isn't jury duty where he can get out of it by saying he doesn't understand English well enough to be there.        

It has nothing to do with knowing English.
I do not think anyone who is trying to save money for their kids thinking 'is it legal'?

[Ombud]

Oct 16, 2015 10:24:56 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Oct 15, 2015 13:11:00 GMT -5 souldoubt said:

If I go to another country whether to visit or live I'm supposed to follow the laws of that country.  Claiming ignorance of the law isn't an excuse.  Also I believe you said that 85 year old man has been here for 20+ years.  This isn't jury duty where he can get out of it by saying he doesn't understand English well enough to be there.

It has nothing to do with knowing English.
I do not think anyone who is trying to save money for their kids thinking 'is it legal'?

Agreed and when he completes an asset update he's "thinking I can get away with this. But I don't want to deposit it bc what I did was illegal." And you are complicit. Especially since those forms are in multiple languages

tloonya please STOP trying to justify fraud. There's is no justification

You're not as dumb as you want us to believe

[tloonya]

Oct 15, 2015 15:29:32 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Looks to me like you've come up with what seems to you to be a viable alternative story to get away with what you want to get away with, tloonya. It's illegal either way. It's fraud. Lies are often fraud. So, when you start coming up with lies so you can do what you want - think fraud first. That should help. 

Yeah, the second story I came up with just to see HOW paranoid some people here are.

Because if I can agree with some stuff was written to the first one - the second one is completely would be legit money story. Son works, pays taxes, sending money to his father. Father saves it and not using it because he has enough of his own SS or whatever money.
He returns money to his son. End of story!
But NO, some are trying to find criminal even in this story.

FRAUD what? Having cash in capitalist country>? You sound like a communist.

[tloonya]

Oct 15, 2015 18:08:45 GMT -5 joemilitary said:

Loony , will u marry me? :-)

It depends on a few things.
I am waiting for Archie to realize I am better than his wife even though she is about 20 years younger than me...so I might never see him in my possession...then of course you come next.

WAIT! I AM married already

...but that shouldn't stop us, right?

[The Captain]

Oct 16, 2015 10:24:56 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Oct 15, 2015 13:11:00 GMT -5 souldoubt said:

If I go to another country whether to visit or live I'm supposed to follow the laws of that country.  Claiming ignorance of the law isn't an excuse.  Also I believe you said that 85 year old man has been here for 20+ years.  This isn't jury duty where he can get out of it by saying he doesn't understand English well enough to be there.        

It has nothing to do with knowing English.
I do not think anyone who is trying to save money for their kids thinking 'is it legal'?

Wrong.  I'm thinking - is this the example I want to set for my child.

I have rentals.  The bulk of my tenants pay cash.  I'm an accountant.  Believe me when I say that it would be very easy for me to hide income because I know how both accounting and income taxes work.  I don't, because it's not the right thing to do.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I do not think anyone who is trying to save money for their kids thinking 'is it legal'?

It is if he is on any kind of aid that requires means testing. He has had $25k in funds for X amount of years, that should have been used for his care instead of being dependent upon the government for his needs.

If it is actually your husband's money why hasn't it been in an account in his name all this time?   Why didn't your FIL give it to him before it would require an elaborate scheme of flying with $25k in cash so "they" can't find the money?

[Ombud]

Oct 16, 2015 10:36:52 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Oct 15, 2015 15:29:32 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Looks to me like you've come up with what seems to you to be a viable alternative story to get away with what you want to get away with, tloonya. It's illegal either way. It's fraud. Lies are often fraud. So, when you start coming up with lies so you can do what you want - think fraud first. That should help. 

Yeah, the second story I came up with just to see HOW paranoid some people here are.

Because if I can agree with some stuff was written to the first one - the second one is completely would be legit money story. Son works, pays taxes, sending money to his father. Father saves it and not using it because he has enough of his own SS or whatever money.
He returns money to his son. End of story!
But NO, some are trying to find criminal even in this story.

FRAUD what? Having cash in capitalist country>? You sound like a communist.

Insults don't work. Gift money to relative + complete form without reporting gift = fraudulently completing form

PERSON COMMITTING FRAUD = CRIMINAL

[midjd]

If it's your husband's money, and it's being held in an account in your husband's name, there is no problem.

If it's being held in an account in your father-in-law's name (or just hidden in cash in the mattress), according to the government, it is an asset that can/should be used to help support your father-in-law (rather than the taxpayers' money).

It's really not complicated. Assets in your name = your assets. If they're not truly your assets, put them in the name of the person to whom they legitimately belong. 

[tloonya]

Oct 16, 2015 10:30:05 GMT -5 Ombud said:

Oct 16, 2015 10:24:56 GMT -5 tloonya said:

It has nothing to do with knowing English.
I do not think anyone who is trying to save money for their kids thinking 'is it legal'?

Agreed and when he completes an asset update he's "thinking I can get away with this. But I don't want to deposit it bc what I did was illegal." And you are complicit. Especially since those forms are in multiple languages

tloonya please STOP trying to justify fraud. There's is no justification

You're not as dumb as you want us to believe

No, he knows he is not supposed to have money in the bank because he can lose his poor people privileges. He does know. So one of his friends spending his foodstamps on caviar and has nothing left and pops eats free food and saving money.
So why pops should open bank account and lose his SS money just because he is trying
to save for kids? It is dumb law.

[Ombud]

Oct 16, 2015 10:49:18 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Oct 16, 2015 10:30:05 GMT -5 Ombud said:

Agreed and when he completes an asset update he's "thinking I can get away with this. But I don't want to deposit it bc what I did was illegal." And you are complicit. Especially since those forms are in multiple languages

tloonya please STOP trying to justify fraud. There's is no justification

You're not as dumb as you want us to believe

No, he knows he is not supposed to have money in the bank because he can lose his poor people privileges. He does know. So one of his friends spending his foodstamps on caviar and has nothing left and pops eats free food and saving money.
So why pops should open bank account and lose his SS money just because he is trying
to save for kids? It is dumb law.

NO IT ISN'T (YES I'M SHOUTING)!! He can have up to $2000 in the bank and that's it! It's other poor people's money and eventually MY TAX DOLLARS that he's ripping off! This thinking is why SSI is going broke. If his kids want more they can become gainfully employed. We are not a socialist country where some get to rip off hard working citizens who only want to put food / shelter / medical for all

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Oct 16, 2015 10:49:18 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Oct 16, 2015 10:30:05 GMT -5 Ombud said:

Agreed and when he completes an asset update he's "thinking I can get away with this. But I don't want to deposit it bc what I did was illegal." And you are complicit. Especially since those forms are in multiple languages

tloonya please STOP trying to justify fraud. There's is no justification

You're not as dumb as you want us to believe

No, he knows he is not supposed to have money in the bank because he can lose his poor people privileges. He does know. So one of his friends spending his foodstamps on caviar and has nothing left and pops eats free food and saving money.
So why pops should open bank account and lose his SS money just because he is trying
to save for kids? It is dumb law.

Because his 'kids' are adults and need to work for themselves.  The government is paying your FIL to support him, because he is elderly.  Your daughter is not elderly, and there is no reason why she cannot get a job.

What it boils down to is that the US taxpayer is paying your daughter $25K.  I didn't contribute my taxes to support your able bodied daughter, I contributed to my taxes to help someone who cannot help themselves.

[tloonya]

Oct 16, 2015 10:41:36 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I do not think anyone who is trying to save money for their kids thinking 'is it legal'?

It is if he is on any kind of aid that requires means testing. He has had $25k in funds for X amount of years, that should have been used for his care instead of being dependent upon the government for his needs.

If it is actually your husband's money why hasn't it been in an account in his name all this time?   Why didn't your FIL give it to him before it would require an elaborate scheme of flying with $25k in cash so "they" can't find the money?

No, this is not my husband's money, I had just created an example to see reaction.
So when he started saving the money it was not immediately $25K.
It started little by little.

When do you smart people saying he was supposed to go to SS office and say 'strip me naked - I have $5K saved'...? Or when he got $3?
And what's then? He would pay for his own apartment for  month and come back to apply for subsidize housing? Then save some money and go to the SS office saying 'I got money again - take it'...

Sounds stupid to me. You?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

No, he knows he is not supposed to have money in the bank because he can lose his poor people privileges

And that's where it becomes illegal.  It doesn't matter who the money originally came from, if it's in your FIL's possession and name then it should be going towards his care. Tax dollars are supposed to be a LAST resort. Not a way to be able to save up $25k to give to your grandkid.

This is like the scheme your mother's boyfriend had to hide his assets by signing them over to his daughter. It backfired in his face.   This also could backfire in everyone's faces.

[The Captain]

Oct 16, 2015 10:54:10 GMT -5 Ombud said:

Oct 16, 2015 10:49:18 GMT -5 tloonya said:

No, he knows he is not supposed to have money in the bank because he can lose his poor people privileges. He does know. So one of his friends spending his foodstamps on caviar and has nothing left and pops eats free food and saving money.
So why pops should open bank account and lose his SS money just because he is trying
to save for kids? It is dumb law.

NO IT ISN'T (YES I'M SHOUTING)!! He can have up to $2000 in the bank and that's it! It's other poor people's money and eventually MY TAX DOLLARS that he's ripping off! This thinking is why SSI is going broke. If his kids want more they can become gainfully employed. We are not a socialist country where some get to rip off hard working citizens who only want to put food / shelter / medical for all

Are you sure we're talking about the same country?

[tloonya]

Oct 16, 2015 10:54:10 GMT -5 Ombud said:

Oct 16, 2015 10:49:18 GMT -5 tloonya said:

No, he knows he is not supposed to have money in the bank because he can lose his poor people privileges. He does know. So one of his friends spending his foodstamps on caviar and has nothing left and pops eats free food and saving money.
So why pops should open bank account and lose his SS money just because he is trying
to save for kids? It is dumb law.

NO IT ISN'T (YES I'M SHOUTING)!! He can have up to $2000 in the bank and that's it! It's other poor people's money and eventually MY TAX DOLLARS that he's ripping off! This thinking is why SSI is going broke. If his kids want more they can become gainfully employed. We are not a socialist country where some get to rip off hard working citizens who only want to put food / shelter / medical for all

I think me and my husband paid enough taxes to support pop at his age. You don't know whom you are supporting. I don't think its our pop

[midjd]

If you think the asset limit is a dumb law, the appropriate response is to call your congressperson to complain, and then figure out other ways to help your FIL that will allow him to remain within the confines of the program. There are a number of ways to make sure he is well taken care of without committing fraud.

An inappropriate response would be to seek advice on how to break the law and then insult those who are trying to keep you out of trouble. Personally, I would have stuck with the "in husband's name" story rather than openly admit to committing SSI fraud. 

[tloonya]

Oct 16, 2015 10:58:23 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

No, he knows he is not supposed to have money in the bank because he can lose his poor people privileges

And that's where it becomes illegal.  It doesn't matter who the money originally came from, if it's in your FIL's possession and name then it should be going towards his care. Tax dollars are supposed to be a LAST resort. Not a way to be able to save up $25k to give to your grandkid.

This is like the scheme your mother's boyfriend had to hide his assets by signing them over to his daughter. It backfired in his face.   This also could backfire in everyone's faces.

 

Mom's bf wasn't trying to hide anything. He didn't want his house to go to his ex wife who left him after he married her and gave her ability to stay in USA he found out that's what she married him for he got pissed off and signed HIS house to HIS daughter.
And you call it a fraud, crime...WHY?

[Ombud]

Oct 16, 2015 10:49:18 GMT -5 tloonya said:

It is dumb law.

Sorry that you think fraud should be legal. It isn't and won't be

BOTTOM LINE: people change countries all the time. My SisIL immigrated from Argentina, my xSonIL walked in from Aqua Caliente, BF flew in from Russia, DD is from Korea -- all legal now. Nothing wrong with you deciding you don't want to abide by our laws and pick a country more to your liking

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Oct 16, 2015 11:05:38 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Oct 16, 2015 10:58:23 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

No, he knows he is not supposed to have money in the bank because he can lose his poor people privileges

And that's where it becomes illegal.  It doesn't matter who the money originally came from, if it's in your FIL's possession and name then it should be going towards his care. Tax dollars are supposed to be a LAST resort. Not a way to be able to save up $25k to give to your grandkid.

This is like the scheme your mother's boyfriend had to hide his assets by signing them over to his daughter. It backfired in his face.   This also could backfire in everyone's faces.

 

Mom's bf wasn't trying to hide anything. He didn't want his house to go to his ex wife who left him after he married her and gave her ability to stay in USA he found out that's what she married him for he got pissed off and signed HIS house to HIS daughter.
And you call it a fraud, crime...WHY?

Why?  Because your mom's BF was trying to hide assets from her.  Had he gone through legal channels, this would all have been a moot point.  She would have gotten a portion of his assets (which way back then, would likely had been minimal) and she would not have had any sort of repercussions.  Because he was trying to screw his wife (I believe you said that they never divorced, so she was still his wife), his daughter screwed him.

I guess that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[tloonya]

Oct 16, 2015 11:03:45 GMT -5 midjd said:

If you think the asset limit is a dumb law, the appropriate response is to call your congressperson to complain, and then figure out other ways to help your FIL that will allow him to remain within the confines of the program. There are a number of ways to make sure he is well taken care of without committing fraud.

An inappropriate response would be to seek advice on how to break the law and then insult those who are trying to keep you out of trouble. Personally, I would have stuck with the "in husband's name" story rather than openly admit to committing SSI fraud. 

Insult? I want to see these people who were insulted. Raise your hand. Anyone?

Listen one more time. We had no idea pop is saving money. We had suspected because the way he is living. But no one told us. Until a few days ago when he called and said he doesn't feel good so my husband should be coming because he has a stash for us.

That is it. I refuse to see crime in it. Period!

[tloonya]

Oct 16, 2015 11:11:25 GMT -5 Ombud said:

Oct 16, 2015 10:49:18 GMT -5 tloonya said:

It is dumb law.

Sorry that you think fraud should be legal. It isn't and won't be

BOTTOM LINE: people change countries all the time. My SisIL immigrated from Argentina, my xSonIL walked in from Aqua Caliente, BF flew in from Russia, DD is from Korea -- all legal now. Nothing wrong with you deciding you don't want to abide by our laws and pick a country more to your liking

Not everyone here is agree with you. So even on this boards people are not sure about fraud or not, legal or not. No one is on the same page 100% here. Read from the beginning.

[Ombud]

Oct 16, 2015 11:13:34 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Oct 16, 2015 11:03:45 GMT -5 midjd said:

If you think the asset limit is a dumb law, the appropriate response is to call your congressperson to complain, and then figure out other ways to help your FIL that will allow him to remain within the confines of the program. There are a number of ways to make sure he is well taken care of without committing fraud.

An inappropriate response would be to seek advice on how to break the law and then insult those who are trying to keep you out of trouble. Personally, I would have stuck with the "in husband's name" story rather than openly admit to committing SSI fraud. 

Insult? I want to see these people who were insulted. Raise your hand. Anyone?

Listen one more time. We had no idea pop is saving money. We had suspected because the way he is living. But no one told us. Until a few days ago when he called and said he doesn't feel good so my husband should be coming because he has a stash for us.

That is it. I refuse to see crime in it. Period!

whether you see it as a crime or not is immaterial

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

That is it. I refuse to see crime in it. Period!


The problem is that you are complicit in it, Loony.  It IS a crime, your FIL essentially stole money from the US taxpayer.  If he could get away with basic living expenses for $100 less each month, why should this come out of my pocket?

Just because you refuse to see it, doesn't mean that it isn't a crime.  He may not go to jail, but your FIL KNEW that he ran the risk of losing his welfare benefits if he put the money into a bank account.  He was not stupid, he was not naive.  He deliberately defrauded the government, and by you accepting the money, you are also guilty.

You can try to rationalize this as much as you want.  It is still wrong, both ethically and by law.  You know that.  HE knew that.  But you keep trying to justify why what he's doing is ok.  It simply is not.

[tloonya]

Oct 16, 2015 11:15:32 GMT -5 Ombud said:

Oct 16, 2015 11:13:34 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Insult? I want to see these people who were insulted. Raise your hand. Anyone?

Listen one more time. We had no idea pop is saving money. We had suspected because the way he is living. But no one told us. Until a few days ago when he called and said he doesn't feel good so my husband should be coming because he has a stash for us.

That is it. I refuse to see crime in it. Period!

whether you see it as a crime or not is immaterial

It isn't just me. It is substential portion of posters here.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Oct 16, 2015 11:18:53 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Oct 16, 2015 11:15:32 GMT -5 Ombud said:

whether you see it as a crime or not is immaterial

It isn't just me. It is substential portion of posters here.

Who?

[mojothehelpermonkey]

Oct 16, 2015 11:13:34 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Oct 16, 2015 11:03:45 GMT -5 midjd said:

If you think the asset limit is a dumb law, the appropriate response is to call your congressperson to complain, and then figure out other ways to help your FIL that will allow him to remain within the confines of the program. There are a number of ways to make sure he is well taken care of without committing fraud.

An inappropriate response would be to seek advice on how to break the law and then insult those who are trying to keep you out of trouble. Personally, I would have stuck with the "in husband's name" story rather than openly admit to committing SSI fraud. 

Insult? I want to see these people who were insulted. Raise your hand. Anyone?

Listen one more time. We had no idea pop is saving money. We had suspected because the way he is living. But no one told us. Until a few days ago when he called and said he doesn't feel good so my husband should be coming because he has a stash for us.

That is it. I refuse to see crime in it. Period!

That sounds like the kind of situation where going through the appropriate channels would be the most ethical and efficient way to deal with the situation. It beats trying to smuggle cash.

[Ombud]

Oct 16, 2015 11:15:40 GMT -5 tloonya said:

Oct 16, 2015 11:11:25 GMT -5 Ombud said:

Sorry that you think fraud should be legal. It isn't and won't be

BOTTOM LINE: people change countries all the time. My SisIL immigrated from Argentina, my xSonIL walked in from Aqua Caliente, BF flew in from Russia, DD is from Korea -- all legal now. Nothing wrong with you deciding you don't want to abide by our laws and pick a country more to your liking

Not everyone here is agree with you. So even on this boards people are not sure about fraud or not, legal or not. No one is on the same page 100% here. Read from the beginning.

Well it is:

oig.ssa.gov/report-fraud-waste-or-abuse/what-can-oig-investigate

WHAT DO WE INVESTIGATE?

The OIG investigates a variety of situations that may be considered fraud. Examples include when an individual:

Conceals work

Conceals their marriage or assets from the Social Security Administration while receiving Supplemental Security Income payments