Why Are People Broke When Making Money Is So Easy?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

I have been broke, but I've always let it motivate me to figure something out.  We have two families we are friends with - one from school and one from church- that are always broke. They have a roof over their heads- mortgages, but paid off cars, but they always seem to be struggling.  I have been experimenting with some things- just to see "what if" because I never like to offer suggestions I haven't tried. The wife and I went out to breakfast on Saturday and there was an antique shop next door to the restaurant.  I went in, bought a vintage 1980's blouse of the kind I remember my wife wearing when we met way back when.  It was $3.  I didn't do anything but take pics and post it to a community Facebook group:  Vintage 1980's Suzelli Blouse, 100% Poly, Size 6- $45.  I sold it today for $40.  Just dropped it off with a gal over at the Publix.  

I wasn't even really trying and I turned $3 into $37 in less than 4 days.  phil5185 can go scratch. I just made 1,233% on my money in 4 days. 

Now, if properly motivated (like I was dead broke), I'd take my $37 bucks and go reinvest it and maybe not do as well, but I can just about guarantee that by the end of the week I'd have $200.

(I'm not going to do that- I plan on blowing it, and then some on lunch today)

But why aren't people that are broke these days more MOTIVATED?!?  What is wrong with people that they just sit around and whine and complain?

[phil5185]

phil5185 can go scratch. I just made 1,233% on my money in 4 days.

Dang, I gotta get motivated!

[Deleted]

Paul, it's hard to scale that up to support a family. (And don't forget health insurance and the out-of-pocket due to high deductibles.)

I see a lot of signs of it among people who are unemployed or under-employed.  I list things for free on Craigslist (including furniture that's very well-made but needs new upholstery, etc.) and they disappear. You name it- leftover construction materials, old lamps, empty canisters from Cadenhead's Whisky in Edinburgh (I DID say they were empty ).  I suspect it all gets sold on e-Bay or in flea markets, and there's a thriving flea market near us at a former drive-in.  Good for them but I doubt it will pay the mortgage.  I've got a friend who juggles speaking engagements with adjunct assistant professor jobs (she'd got a Ph.D. in education).  She and her husband (who appears to have a somewhat stable job in accounting) are taking in a Med school student for 3 months; the student is paying rent and she'll live on the top floor of the house.  After that they're planning on getting tenants through AirBnB.  She once told me she's got bad teeth and big issues with the dentures she now has but she can't afford to get them fixed or get implants.

ETA another example:  daily newspaper delivery is almost all done by adults with large routes now.  They have to go somewhere at an insane hour to pick up the papers, stuff ad supplements in, and bag them.  A friend who did that to bring in extra money (on top of a FT job) said she'd see people with sleepy little kids in the cars at 4 AM.

But, in some cultures, when you can get the same $$ from government bennies that you can from  from hustling multiple jobs and selling at flea markets, living off the government looks better.  Bringing in this kind of income could even disqualify you for benefits worth more than the income.

[giramomma]

Well, my DS bought an old video game from the library for $.50.  He was sure he could sell it to a store that buys used games for a couple of bucks. Nope.

We'll see if we can sell it on eBay.

Not everyone has the knack for these sorts of things.

And not everyone has the temperament to hustle. Actually, my DH is not a hustler. Never has been, never will be.

You also can't judge when people say they are broke. I feel dirt poor at the moment. In reality, our cash position is down about 10-15K, with no real plan to replenish at this point. That's what is making me feel poor. I don't often remember we have enough assets to make us really be a "have" rather than a "have not." Our net worth puts us somewhere in the 70th-80th percentile for wealth for our age.

In the grand scheme of things, we are anything but poor. But, damn, I sure feel it. And lord knows, I've complained about it enough.

[ohmomto2boys]

I have a SIL who is always selling things on E-bay.  She got a free pair of earrings (earned them from selling Arbonne), she sold them on e-bay for $30.  Her mother gives her Coach purses.  She keeps the ones she wants and sells the rest on e-bay.  Her son has sold games on e-bay.  Is it paying the mortgage?  Heavens no, this is her spending money because she is a SAHM.  She also subs at the kids school, when she wants to, not because she has to. 

I agree with the "there are ways to make money".  But it does take ambition/time.

In the grand scheme of things, we are anything but poor. But, damn, I sure feel it.

This is exactly how I feel.  We can't afford everything we want, but we can afford everything we need.  Sometimes it is depressing because we wonder what we are doing wrong.  We "see" people with a lot more than us, however, I always have to remind myself that we don't know their entire story.  My DS wants a pair of Lebron shoes - $120 (the lease expensive pair). ALL his friends have them.  It stinks saying no and we say no to a lot.  Does he need these shoes?  Heck no, but I wish I could buy them for him.

[Deleted]

Sept 22, 2015 9:41:58 GMT -5 ohmomto2boys said:

My DS wants a pair of Lebron shoes - $120 (the least expensive pair). ALL his friends have them.  It stinks saying no and we say no to a lot.  Does he need these shoes?  Heck no, but I wish I could buy them for him.

Hey, I REALLY wanted to go on a class trip to Europe when I was in HS! It was out of the question. I had 4 siblings and my parents were saving for our educations.

In the end, I got a good education (thanks, Mom and Dad!) and paid my own way to Europe- multiple times and I'm not done yet. I even found a few employers willing to support my travel-junkie habits. Hopefully, your son will be on his own someday and able to set his own financial priorities. He may or may not decide that Lebron shoes are worth it. As long as you're providing the necessities and a few luxuries, I don't think it hurts to leave kids wanting more.

[Tiny]

I wasn't even really trying and I turned $3 into $37 in less than 4 days.

I do hate to say this - but "beginner's luck". You paid very little (from an actual STORE!) and then managed to find someone who was willing to pay a lot more for it on-line AND because you sold locally AND via a free service AND probably did a cash transaction, you didn't have any additional 'costs' - you didn't have to package it (maybe pay any shipping overage), didn't have to pay for an online payment exchange (paypal or whatever else you'd use), you didn't have to pay the online service to LIST your item.

You can't really compare what you did to selling on eBay. If you had gone the eBay route you would have netted a lot less than $37.

I think you are underestimating the effort (and sometimes needing to aquire "knowledge") that it takes to earn a true supporting income from re-selling stuff. It really helps if you know what stuff to look for AND know what the market will pay for said stuff.

I've attempted to sell "hot items" I knew little to nothing about - pokemon stuff, star wars stuff, some clothing (designer) and wasn't able to find buyers who were willing to pay even $3 or $4 for the stuff... The foray into designer clothing was informative and I learned what designer stuff DOES sell... and which brands to watch - because the designers styles sometimes fall out of favor very fast - so that $5.00 garage sale find - that might have netted $50 one month (with lots of bidders) will only net $10 6 or 8 months later.


But, your actual OP isn't about the pros/cons of ways to make extra money... it's WHY don't people take advantage of the "easy money" that's perhaps 'everywhere'.  First, a tiny portion of it is 'easy money' the rest of it requires work.  Often times the "easy money" isn't enough to live on.   And finally, people who aren't 'savers'  tend to spend every penny they get.  So, they may use the 'easy money' to pay down debt - but as soon as the debt is gone they run it up again.  There's always something else to buy/want/need.

Some of it is human nature - few people like to be a "newbie" with something they (or no one they know) has done. Few people like to have to READ up on how things work (ie what are the costs involved, what kinds of stuff is in demand?)
I've seen people shy away from selling online because they don't really understand how eBay works (and don't want to spend the time plowing thru the FAQs) They don't really understand how paypal works (and don't want to spend the time to do it). But, ultimately, they are afraid of the risk of LOSING MONEY: What if they spent $10.00 for something they want to resell - but what if after the dust settles they end up with LESS than $10 in payment? There's also the 'mind set' of "I paid $150 for this Widget brand new! Yeah, it's 10 years old and I never really used it - but it's worth $125 - I paid $150 for it. It's new!!! What do you mean I'll only get $30 for it? It was $150!!! What a rip off!!"

Disclosure: I heard variations of that last rant from multiple people over a multitude of things they wanted me to sell for them on eBay back in the day... when I showed them what they could expect to get for their stuff - they usually backed out of wanting to sell it... Generally, people are a bit fuzzy on the idea that their 'value' of their item is NOT the same as other people.

[HoneyBBQ]

Yep. What if you couldn't sell it? You would have lost $3. It's easy to take a 1 time transaction and say "look at me, wheee!" but the reality is many many auctions can sit idly and never sell. Then you just lose money and have more crap in your house.

For me, personally, it has to generate more than $20 net in 30 minutes of work for me to even begin to be interested in selling it. For example, we have a bunch of baby Einstein DVDs that we were gifted (and never used). They sell in lots on ebay for 20-30 bucks. It's ALMOST not worth it for me to spend my time and effort listing the item, paying pay pal fees, ebay fees, shipping the item, etc. They will probably just go to goodwill and I'll write it off.

But I'm lucky I have an income to "write off". Poor folks don't have that luxury.

[Tiny]

I have been broke, but I've always let it motivate me to figure something out. We have two families we are friends with - one from school and one from church- that are always broke. They have a roof over their heads- mortgages, but paid off cars, but they always seem to be struggling.

What do you mean by "always seem to be struggling"? Are they just vocally crying "Wolf!" because that's their script? Or are they really "struggling" - they've had the lights turned off or a vehicle reposed or is their kitchen barren all the time?

What are their signs of struggling?


I know quite a few people who "cry wolf" - but it's because they can't keep up with the next income tier (ie the Joneses). One's a SINK like me - earning less than I do - but managing to live a much 'bigger life' than I am (I suspect she's got some sort of trust or other inherited passive income), then there's a couple of DIWKs both with working spouses - so household income in the $200K to $250K range). I've noticed that these particular people whine and moan about not being able to afford 'stuff' - but when you look at what they are crying about - it's really high end stuff - the $1300 pair of shoes or the $100K vehicle or the $1mil house or they can't afford to get their kid into the $10K a semester grade school or some other 'luxury' type item. Mind you they already have $500 pairs of shoes, 80K vehicles, and a 500K house and their kid(s) go to the 5K a semester school. They cry because they can't afford the next level up. They aren't struggling to get by - they are struggling to keep up appearances.

I also know some other SINKs and DINKs and DIWKs (who I'm sure are making in the zone of 6 figures or are in the 200K to 250K range- who never say a peep about "Oh, I can't afford THAT!"  or "we can't do that - there's no money" or whatever they say to indicate they are "too poor!" when something expensive comes up on TV or in a store window or when talking about high end stuff (like electronics, cars, or vacations, or high end stuff that deals with a hobby,  whatever, because it's fun to talk about the stuff.)   They all have nice enough homes, nice enough cars, their kids go to good schools and do extra curricular stuff, they do go on vacations (but it's more about WHAT they did on vacation versus WHERE they went).  They seem happy and hardly rich or poor... since it never comes up in conversation.

[midjd]

But why aren't people that are broke these days more MOTIVATED?!? What is wrong with people that they just sit around and whine and complain?

I think when someone is truly broke, they're more worried about using that $3 to buy something from the dollar menu than a shirt that they may or may not be able to sell for more than they paid.

DH makes a decent side income buying and selling vehicle parts, but part of the reason he can take the risk of spending $100 on something that may not sell for a month or two is because we're not counting on that $100 to pay the mortgage or buy groceries. When you need that money to live, you have to instead focus on the "sure thing" deals, and there's a lot more competition there.

[Ryan]

Sept 22, 2015 10:46:20 GMT -5 midjd said:

But why aren't people that are broke these days more MOTIVATED?!? What is wrong with people that they just sit around and whine and complain?

I think when someone is truly broke, they're more worried about using that $3 to buy something from the dollar menu than a shirt that they may or may not be able to sell for more than they paid.

DH makes a decent side income buying and selling vehicle parts, but part of the reason he can take the risk of spending $100 on something that may not sell for a month or two is because we're not counting on that $100 to pay the mortgage or buy groceries. When you need that money to live, you have to instead focus on the "sure thing" deals, and there's a lot more competition there.

I agree with this.  When I first started my business, my wife and I were both working with no kids, so I could take some small risks and not be totally screwed if it went upside down.

Now, I have the capital to take bigger risks.  I launched a new product last year that was an initial order of $10K on a product that while, I had good research and a good feeling about, still was not proven.  It ended up working out, but I had the benefit of experience and knowing where I could the product to at least bail myself out.  Most people that are poor don't have any idea on either.

[ArchietheDragon]

don't poor people just steal shit?

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 22, 2015 10:37:57 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

Yep. What if you couldn't sell it? You would have lost $3. It's easy to take a 1 time transaction and say "look at me, wheee!" but the reality is many many auctions can sit idly and never sell. Then you just lose money and have more crap in your house.

For me, personally, it has to generate more than $20 net in 30 minutes of work for me to even begin to be interested in selling it. For example, we have a bunch of baby Einstein DVDs that we were gifted (and never used). They sell in lots on ebay for 20-30 bucks. It's ALMOST not worth it for me to spend my time and effort listing the item, paying pay pal fees, ebay fees, shipping the item, etc. They will probably just go to goodwill and I'll write it off.

But I'm lucky I have an income to "write off". Poor folks don't have that luxury.

I did have the advantage of knowing what it was. Another friend of ours who doesn't bitch and moan about being broke all the time works full time, works part time as a personal chef, and specializes in vintage 80's clothing in her Amazon / eBay / antique mall stall business.  Her Amazon business alone averages $1,000 a day in revenue.  They have a house in Viera, FL in Summer Lakes- take a gander at that development via Google, if you like- that is paid for.  

So, it wasn't "lucky" except it was "lucky" that I found it- but I did know what it was when I bought it.  There are lots of things we all probably know about, and if we are determined enough- we can profit from what we know.

[Ombud]

DIL always worked. Always. 19 yo with a kid until she had kid #2 with DS. Now having kid #3. And even though she's not 'working' FT now, she makes kid clothes and sells them on etsy. But she only nets $200-300 a week. Start up isn't free (higher quality sewing machine, website, ads) & there are costs involved (materials, her labor, babysitter for rush jobs, shipping, accounting software) so it's not as easy as you state

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

What do you mean by "always seem to be struggling"? Are they just vocally crying "Wolf!" because that's their script? Or are they really "struggling" - they've had the lights turned off or a vehicle reposed or is their kitchen barren all the time?

What are their signs of struggling?

This is actually a great point.  It is hard to tell, although one of them I know that last year he lost his job and didn't get another one for three months, and they "sold" a car- but I'm pretty sure it was repo'd.

[HoneyBBQ]

Sept 22, 2015 11:14:48 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Sept 22, 2015 10:37:57 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

Yep. What if you couldn't sell it? You would have lost $3. It's easy to take a 1 time transaction and say "look at me, wheee!" but the reality is many many auctions can sit idly and never sell. Then you just lose money and have more crap in your house.

For me, personally, it has to generate more than $20 net in 30 minutes of work for me to even begin to be interested in selling it. For example, we have a bunch of baby Einstein DVDs that we were gifted (and never used). They sell in lots on ebay for 20-30 bucks. It's ALMOST not worth it for me to spend my time and effort listing the item, paying pay pal fees, ebay fees, shipping the item, etc. They will probably just go to goodwill and I'll write it off.

But I'm lucky I have an income to "write off". Poor folks don't have that luxury.

I did have the advantage of knowing what it was. Another friend of ours who doesn't bitch and moan about being broke all the time works full time, works part time as a personal chef, and specializes in vintage 80's clothing in her Amazon / eBay / antique mall stall business.  Her Amazon business alone averages $1,000 a day in revenue.  They have a house in Viera, FL in Summer Lakes- take a gander at that development via Google, if you like- that is paid for.  

So, it wasn't "lucky" except it was "lucky" that I found it- but I did know what it was when I bought it.  There are lots of things we all probably know about, and if we are determined enough- we can profit from what we know.

That's true. Having specialized knowledge is, obviously, unique. Not something the "average" joe can do.

[movingforward]

I have absolutely zero idea about what kind of crap someone might be willing to pay for and how much.  I could learn but if I were broke this is probably the LAST thing I would do to attempt to make ends meet.  I would be more likely to go get a McJob part-time to help supplement my full-time income.  I would never get rich working an additional part-time job but I wouldn't have to worry about using money up front that I need to eat. 

[quince]

I'm going to agree that people who are truly broke can't take risks with money.

We liked to do things ourselves if we could when we owned a house- we saved money. If we fucked it up, though, we would have been out more money than just hiring a professional to do things properly/buying a replacement piece of equipment instead of trying a repair/etc. We had money(and pre-kid, time.), so the experience of learning a new skill was worth it, even if we needed to throw more money at the issue in the end. Someone who has to scrape up the money to take care of an issue in the first place can't always risk another couple of hundred dollars.

Buying and selling stuff? Also risky, often even if you DO know what you're doing. Time consuming, with unpredictable returns.

Health issues: some people I know who have been broke are disabled.   More limits to have to work within.

[Deleted]

Sept 22, 2015 12:30:08 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Somebody earlier mentioned trying to resell collectibles. Pokemon stuff. This is probably the worst specific niche to try unless you actually collect the thing in question. Collectors are very picky and novices don't usually know the difference between the valuable stuff and the worthless stuff.

When we were downsizing I decided to get rid of my stamp collection. I didn't even bother with the ones pasted in my album- I'd bought them cheaply and knew that it wouldn't be worth it to ship them anywhere. (You know all those blocks of 5-cent stamps that collectors ran to the post office and got as soon as they issued a new commemorative? Each of those stamps is worth- well, 5 cents.)

I had a small collection of stamps issued by Hawaii when it was a territory. The ones that had been cancelled (and, worse, stuck in albums using hinges) were worth less than I paid for them in the 1970s when I was in college. The ones that were uncancelled and unhinged went for about what I paid for them. Not a great return.

My mother had a friend whose late father's stamp collection sold for over $1 million, but he was a retired US Navy Admiral and I think he spent more and knew what he was doing.

And- totally different point on McJobs- it's very hard to hold more than one.  I didn't realize till recently that many places just give you a general idea of when and how long you'll work in a typical week but you're expected to be "on call".   If business picks up and they tell you to come in you'd better show up.  How do you take on another PT job with those working conditions?


 

[Tiny]

Sept 22, 2015 11:25:36 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

What do you mean by "always seem to be struggling"? Are they just vocally crying "Wolf!" because that's their script? Or are they really "struggling" - they've had the lights turned off or a vehicle reposed or is their kitchen barren all the time?

What are their signs of struggling?

This is actually a great point.  It is hard to tell, although one of them I know that last year he lost his job and didn't get another one for three months, and they "sold" a car- but I'm pretty sure it was repo'd.

You say the "Always Broke" you know have houses and cars and such... it might not be that they are "broke" because they can't make money - they are broke because they spend ALL their money (and probably some that they don't have).  They're living paycheck to paycheck. As an example, perhaps their monthly after taxes and required payroll deductions is $5K a month. (so they've got a yearly gross income close to 100K.)  They certainly aren't "broke" but it feels that way because every penny that comes in is already allocated to stuff they've already bought or actually need to buy (gas, food, electricity, etc) to keep their lifestyle going.  They can't 'save' for an emergency or retirement - their paychecks are fully committed.  Yeah, if they just made more money - they could save or pay off all their debt - but odds are they won't.  If more money comes their way - that means they CAN spend more - not 'save' more.    

It's a bias that people have:  If I earn X amount then that means that I should have Y amount of stuff (whatever their script sez someone earning X amount SHOULD be able to afford.).    There's usually a pretty big discrepancy between what X actually pays for and how much Y actually costs.

The other thing with debt is - it's not a quick fix. You generally don't work on paying off your debt for a month or two and then you are done. I'd hazard a guess that it usually takes 24 to 60 months to wipe out non-mortgage debt for most people. People don't have the attention span. A year seems like an eternity much less having to stick with something for 2 years or more. 

  

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 22, 2015 13:38:44 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Sept 22, 2015 11:25:36 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

This is actually a great point.  It is hard to tell, although one of them I know that last year he lost his job and didn't get another one for three months, and they "sold" a car- but I'm pretty sure it was repo'd.

You say the "Always Broke" you know have houses and cars and such... it might not be that they are "broke" because they can't make money - they are broke because they spend ALL their money (and probably some that they don't have).  They're living paycheck to paycheck. As an example, perhaps their monthly after taxes and required payroll deductions is $5K a month. (so they've got a yearly gross income close to 100K.)  They certainly aren't "broke" but it feels that way because every penny that comes in is already allocated to stuff they've already bought or actually need to buy (gas, food, electricity, etc) to keep their lifestyle going.  They can't 'save' for an emergency or retirement - their paychecks are fully committed.  Yeah, if they just made more money - they could save or pay off all their debt - but odds are they won't.  If more money comes their way - that means they CAN spend more - not 'save' more.    

It's a bias that people have:  If I earn X amount then that means that I should have Y amount of stuff (whatever their script sez someone earning X amount SHOULD be able to afford.).    There's usually a pretty big discrepancy between what X actually pays for and how much Y actually costs.

The other thing with debt is - it's not a quick fix. You generally don't work on paying off your debt for a month or two and then you are done. I'd hazard a guess that it usually takes 24 to 60 months to wipe out non-mortgage debt for most people. People don't have the attention span. A year seems like an eternity much less having to stick with something for 2 years or more. 

  

They're living paycheck to paycheck.


Noooooo doubt about this.

[Tiny]

I think what's not being said with all the 'defense of not being able to make quick money' is that, in general, it's a slow process at the beginning - you have to take time and take on some risk to LEARN how to make the extra money. Like all things, you don't wake up on a Saturday morning, decide to become a multi millionaire and then by Monday morning you are raking in the cash.

I think another thing that's not being said is that generally people with some money management skills in place DO take advantage of earning the extra $$ on the side. It might not be enough to 'live' on - but it provides a bit of extra income/life enjoyment that makes it worthwhile. Also the extra work might be based on something they've slowly become knowledgeable in/skilled at over time - maybe even years.

If I were to believe the radio ads (and TV ads) I could be rolling in the dough flipping houses! It sure sounds like easy money - and the ad sez it only takes a handful of hours a week AND other people's money. If that's such easy money why aren't droves of people flipping houses?

[Deleted]

Sept 22, 2015 13:46:04 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Sept 22, 2015 13:38:44 GMT -5 Tiny said:

You say the "Always Broke" you know have houses and cars and such... it might not be that they are "broke" because they can't make money - they are broke because they spend ALL their money (and probably some that they don't have).  They're living paycheck to paycheck. As an example, perhaps their monthly after taxes and required payroll deductions is $5K a month. (so they've got a yearly gross income close to 100K.)  They certainly aren't "broke" but it feels that way because every penny that comes in is already allocated to stuff they've already bought or actually need to buy (gas, food, electricity, etc) to keep their lifestyle going.  They can't 'save' for an emergency or retirement - their paychecks are fully committed.  Yeah, if they just made more money - they could save or pay off all their debt - but odds are they won't.  If more money comes their way - that means they CAN spend more - not 'save' more.    

It's a bias that people have:  If I earn X amount then that means that I should have Y amount of stuff (whatever their script sez someone earning X amount SHOULD be able to afford.).    There's usually a pretty big discrepancy between what X actually pays for and how much Y actually costs.

The other thing with debt is - it's not a quick fix. You generally don't work on paying off your debt for a month or two and then you are done. I'd hazard a guess that it usually takes 24 to 60 months to wipe out non-mortgage debt for most people. People don't have the attention span. A year seems like an eternity much less having to stick with something for 2 years or more. 

  

They're living paycheck to paycheck.


Noooooo doubt about this.

If that's the reason behind their being broke, then making more won't help anyhow. 

[Tiny]

Sept 22, 2015 13:46:04 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Sept 22, 2015 13:38:44 GMT -5 Tiny said:

You say the "Always Broke" you know have houses and cars and such... it might not be that they are "broke" because they can't make money - they are broke because they spend ALL their money (and probably some that they don't have).  They're living paycheck to paycheck. As an example, perhaps their monthly after taxes and required payroll deductions is $5K a month. (so they've got a yearly gross income close to 100K.)  They certainly aren't "broke" but it feels that way because every penny that comes in is already allocated to stuff they've already bought or actually need to buy (gas, food, electricity, etc) to keep their lifestyle going.  They can't 'save' for an emergency or retirement - their paychecks are fully committed.  Yeah, if they just made more money - they could save or pay off all their debt - but odds are they won't.  If more money comes their way - that means they CAN spend more - not 'save' more.    

It's a bias that people have:  If I earn X amount then that means that I should have Y amount of stuff (whatever their script sez someone earning X amount SHOULD be able to afford.).    There's usually a pretty big discrepancy between what X actually pays for and how much Y actually costs.

The other thing with debt is - it's not a quick fix. You generally don't work on paying off your debt for a month or two and then you are done. I'd hazard a guess that it usually takes 24 to 60 months to wipe out non-mortgage debt for most people. People don't have the attention span. A year seems like an eternity much less having to stick with something for 2 years or more. 

  

They're living paycheck to paycheck.


Noooooo doubt about this.

Then it's not necessarily an "income" problem, where earning more money will 'solve' their problems. 

[cktc]

I think a lot of times when people say they are broke or can't afford something they really mean that it isn't a priority for them. It seems it's the more socially acceptable thing to say than that the thing someone else values doesn't even rate. You can elicit sympathy, prop up an ego, and end the conversation without needing to further justify your reasoning because few people want to discuss how and why one of you is so much better off than the other. It's much safer than making a value judgement.

[Chocolate Lover]

Sept 22, 2015 13:35:18 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Sept 22, 2015 12:30:08 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Somebody earlier mentioned trying to resell collectibles. Pokemon stuff. This is probably the worst specific niche to try unless you actually collect the thing in question. Collectors are very picky and novices don't usually know the difference between the valuable stuff and the worthless stuff.

When we were downsizing I decided to get rid of my stamp collection. I didn't even bother with the ones pasted in my album- I'd bought them cheaply and knew that it wouldn't be worth it to ship them anywhere. (You know all those blocks of 5-cent stamps that collectors ran to the post office and got as soon as they issued a new commemorative? Each of those stamps is worth- well, 5 cents.)

I had a small collection of stamps issued by Hawaii when it was a territory. The ones that had been cancelled (and, worse, stuck in albums using hinges) were worth less than I paid for them in the 1970s when I was in college. The ones that were uncancelled and unhinged went for about what I paid for them. Not a great return.

My mother had a friend whose late father's stamp collection sold for over $1 million, but he was a retired US Navy Admiral and I think he spent more and knew what he was doing.

And- totally different point on McJobs- it's very hard to hold more than one.  I didn't realize till recently that many places just give you a general idea of when and how long you'll work in a typical week but you're expected to be "on call".   If business picks up and they tell you to come in you'd better show up.  How do you take on another PT job with those working conditions?


 

Another point to make about a 2nd job, if your FIRST job isn't set hours or days, getting cooperation from the full time job is not always possible. DH worked at a grocery store and tried to deliver pizza on the side. Grocery store didn't have set days off for him and could toss an odd set of hours at him at random. Also didn't make the schedule very far in advance. They weren't changing their ways to accommodate his second job, it was up to the pizza place to do that. A couple of managers did, but the last one he dealt with wouldn't work with him. That was the end of the pizza job. 

[Deleted]

My guess is people are broke because it is even easier to spend money.  We make a good living, but I always have a list about 3 items deep of things I want and I can see that list scale to almost any income. 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 22, 2015 13:35:18 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Sept 22, 2015 12:30:08 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Somebody earlier mentioned trying to resell collectibles. Pokemon stuff. This is probably the worst specific niche to try unless you actually collect the thing in question. Collectors are very picky and novices don't usually know the difference between the valuable stuff and the worthless stuff.

When we were downsizing I decided to get rid of my stamp collection. I didn't even bother with the ones pasted in my album- I'd bought them cheaply and knew that it wouldn't be worth it to ship them anywhere. (You know all those blocks of 5-cent stamps that collectors ran to the post office and got as soon as they issued a new commemorative? Each of those stamps is worth- well, 5 cents.)

I had a small collection of stamps issued by Hawaii when it was a territory. The ones that had been cancelled (and, worse, stuck in albums using hinges) were worth less than I paid for them in the 1970s when I was in college. The ones that were uncancelled and unhinged went for about what I paid for them. Not a great return.

My mother had a friend whose late father's stamp collection sold for over $1 million, but he was a retired US Navy Admiral and I think he spent more and knew what he was doing.

And- totally different point on McJobs- it's very hard to hold more than one.  I didn't realize till recently that many places just give you a general idea of when and how long you'll work in a typical week but you're expected to be "on call".   If business picks up and they tell you to come in you'd better show up.  How do you take on another PT job with those working conditions? 

My team and I hardly have "McJobs", we are all contractors, but we have the "on call" issue.  My attitude is that if I can make it, I can make it- but if you want me to be absolutely on call let me know, and I'll have someone on call for you. We will of course be billing it.  

I understand this is not a luxury people with "McJobs" have, but then- that is also why I don't have a McJob. And yes, it is a choice.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 22, 2015 13:50:43 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Sept 22, 2015 13:46:04 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

They're living paycheck to paycheck.


Noooooo doubt about this.

If that's the reason behind their being broke, then making more won't help anyhow. 

Can't argue with that.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Though, I would add that I like to spend money, too. And I've always found it easier to figure out how to make more money so I could spend it than to "budget" or "live within my means" or "cut up my credit cards", etc.  The time and energy that goes into all coupon clipping and shopping around for better insurance or dealing with prepaid wireless, and not having cable, and all that stuff- I'd just rather put into making more money.  Yes, I still, for practical reasons, have a budget and live within my means-- and I practice delayed gratification-- I don't "charge it and figure out how to pay for it later"-- but when I come up short for something I would like to buy, or something I would like to do that costs money-- I don't cut out my daily cup of coffee, and save up for 9 years. I figure out how to earn more money.