Deleted
Joined: May 4, 2024 6:19:57 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 11:49:22 GMT -5
|
|
sesfw
Junior Associate
Today is the first day of the rest of my life
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 15:45:17 GMT -5
Posts: 6,268
|
Post by sesfw on Sept 21, 2015 16:47:40 GMT -5
This makes me ill ...........
No child should live in fear and pain.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 4, 2024 6:19:57 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 17:56:52 GMT -5
Think of this article next time you hear about our soldiers being "heroes" I know some are, but clearly some are not.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
|
Post by zibazinski on Sept 21, 2015 19:57:48 GMT -5
Our soldiers aren't molesting little boys as far as I know. Do you know differently.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 4, 2024 6:19:57 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 20:06:48 GMT -5
Our soldiers aren't molesting little boys as far as I know. Do you know differently. shhhh... facts will only confuse the issue.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 4, 2024 6:19:57 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 20:08:08 GMT -5
Our soldiers aren't molesting little boys as far as I know. Do you know differently. shhhh... facts will only confuse the issue. the fact that our soldiers are just sitting there listening to little boys get raped? How is that confusing you? Is it the moral aspect of it? Are you confused on whether it is okay to sit there and do nothing while a rape of a child is happening within earshot?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 4, 2024 6:19:57 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 20:17:56 GMT -5
It's not our country, it's not our culture, and it's not our society.
Does it suck that they have to ignore this? Yes. Abso-friggin-lutely. But it's not the job of an American soldier to interfere with the local customs of the inhabitants of an area. You cannot force change on someone (a society) against their will... change MUST come from within. When THEY are ready for change... they will change.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 4, 2024 6:19:57 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 20:20:36 GMT -5
shhhh... facts will only confuse the issue. the fact that our soldiers are just sitting there listening to little boys get raped? How is that confusing you? Is it the moral aspect of it? Are you confused on whether it is okay to sit there and do nothing while a rape of a child is happening within earshot? It's not in the least confusing to me. You were the one confused about the soldier's responsibilities "while in country". You were the one suggesting that people NOT consider them heroes because they are doing their jobs in a dangerous place.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 4, 2024 6:19:57 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 20:21:32 GMT -5
It's not our country, it's not our culture, and it's not our society. Does it suck that they have to ignore this? Yes. Abso-friggin-lutely. But it's not the job of an American soldier to interfere with the local customs of the inhabitants of an area. You cannot force change on someone (a society) against their will... change MUST come from within. When THEY are ready for change... they will change. so what the **** are we doing there if not to change something? Anyone who sits by while a kid is raped and listens to it is not a hero. If you want to say they are doing their job, and that counts for something, I don't know what.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 4, 2024 6:19:57 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 20:52:58 GMT -5
It's not our country, it's not our culture, and it's not our society. Does it suck that they have to ignore this? Yes. Abso-friggin-lutely. But it's not the job of an American soldier to interfere with the local customs of the inhabitants of an area. You cannot force change on someone (a society) against their will... change MUST come from within. When THEY are ready for change... they will change. so what the **** are we doing there if not to change something? Anyone who sits by while a kid is raped and listens to it is not a hero. If you want to say they are doing their job, and that counts for something, I don't know what. Have you forgotten already why we went into Afghanistan? You might want to check out some documentaries on 9-11 and the Taliban's support of Al-Qaeda. We didn't "go in there" to change their internal culture. We "went in there" to root out terrorists and to remove a government that supported terrorists.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 4, 2024 6:19:57 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 20:54:55 GMT -5
so what the **** are we doing there if not to change something? Anyone who sits by while a kid is raped and listens to it is not a hero. If you want to say they are doing their job, and that counts for something, I don't know what. Have you forgotten already why we went into Afghanistan? You might want to check out some documentaries on 9-11 and the Taliban's support of Al-Qaeda. We didn't "go in there" to change their internal culture. We "went in there" to root out terrorists and to remove a government that supported terrorists. yeah, that's what we are doing. Our soldiers are sitting there listening to kids get raped because it roots out terrorists.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 4, 2024 6:19:57 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 21:35:29 GMT -5
Have you forgotten already why we went into Afghanistan? You might want to check out some documentaries on 9-11 and the Taliban's support of Al-Qaeda. We didn't "go in there" to change their internal culture. We "went in there" to root out terrorists and to remove a government that supported terrorists. yeah, that's what we are doing. Our soldiers are sitting there listening to kids get raped because it roots out terrorists. No. Our soldiers are still there because the replacement government isn't "stable" yet. You really don't have a clue about this... do you?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 4, 2024 6:19:57 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 21:36:16 GMT -5
yeah, that's what we are doing. Our soldiers are sitting there listening to kids get raped because it roots out terrorists. No. Our soldiers are still there because the replacement government isn't "stable" yet. You really don't have a clue about this... do you? apparently not
|
|
Value Buy
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 17:57:07 GMT -5
Posts: 18,680
Today's Mood: Getting better by the day!
Location: In the middle of enjoying retirement!
Favorite Drink: Zombie Dust from Three Floyd's brewery
Mini-Profile Name Color: e61975
Mini-Profile Text Color: 196ce6
|
Post by Value Buy on Sept 21, 2015 21:53:43 GMT -5
It's not our country, it's not our culture, and it's not our society. Does it suck that they have to ignore this? Yes. Abso-friggin-lutely. But it's not the job of an American soldier to interfere with the local customs of the inhabitants of an area. You cannot force change on someone (a society) against their will... change MUST come from within. When THEY are ready for change... they will change. so what the **** are we doing there if not to change something? Anyone who sits by while a kid is raped and listens to it is not a hero. If you want to say they are doing their job, and that counts for something, I don't know what. When I had the privilege of being drafted and sent to Vietnam, we were all given class lessons on the do's and don'ts that we would encounter incountry with the Vietnamese population, and we were to be cognizant of their customs and the differences we would see. We were also told to be nice about it, and stay clear. Hearts and minds, hearts and minds, Didn't work well back then either. Not that we would encounter such atrocities as this, but it was about winning the hearts and minds of the people as well as the government in charge at the time. I am simply trying to give everyone a perspective from the military and political side of the fight there, but I agree, this is stone cold wrong.
|
|
chiver78
Administrator
Current Events Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:04:45 GMT -5
Posts: 38,563
|
Post by chiver78 on Sept 21, 2015 22:01:26 GMT -5
so what the **** are we doing there if not to change something? Anyone who sits by while a kid is raped and listens to it is not a hero. If you want to say they are doing their job, and that counts for something, I don't know what. When I had the privilege of being drafted and sent to Vietnam, we were all given class lessons on the do's and don'ts that we would encounter incountry with the Vietnamese population, and we were to be cognizant of their customs and the differences we would see. We were also told to be nice about it, and stay clear. Hearts and minds, hearts and minds, Didn't work well back then either. Not that we would encounter such atrocities as this, but it was about winning the hearts and minds of the people as well as the government in charge at the time. I am simply trying to give everyone a perspective from the military and political side of the fight there, but I agree, this is stone cold wrong. there were things that were wrong back then, too. "comfort women" may have been adults as far as their calendar age, but they were in no way less abused in their experiences. that said, and it may have been you that made the comment, but it is not our country, and we are there to help at the whims of those in charge. as much as it sucks to stand by and watch shit happen, our troops are ultimately on those lands at the behest of the rulers in charge. if it's that atrocious to you (collective) then lobby your senators and representatives to pull troops until the Universal Declaration of Human Rights will be honored. or, whatever your chosen charge may be. and no, I'm not defending any of it. but I recognize that my beliefs are not honored by the laws of that land over there. I'd change it if I could, but I alone can't.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 4, 2024 6:19:57 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 22:12:59 GMT -5
what a sick world we live in where rape of children is ignored for politics. It is within earshot. We are the strongest military in the world and we're scared of what will happen if we let a few soldiers stand up and stop a child getting raped. If that is really who we are, I hope we fail.
|
|
chiver78
Administrator
Current Events Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:04:45 GMT -5
Posts: 38,563
|
Post by chiver78 on Sept 21, 2015 22:26:02 GMT -5
I won't lie, I don't disagree with you. what we are doing over there isn't worth it, IMHO. so to overlook stuff like this, to me, is selling our souls. but I don't have anything to do with agreeing to the terms of how and why we are there, what we will accomplish while we're there, or anything else related to it. we are still subject to their laws while over there, and that includes the military operating under their blessing. I don't like that, but it's what was agreed to. as far as Americans being held to foreign laws, look up Michael Fay other than the Wiki link I've given here. IMHO, unless you are in some other country taking it over under US rule, you can't expect anything other than to live by that country's rule and customs. either that, or have a shit ton of $ or diplomatic immunity. good luck otherwise.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,510
|
Post by Tennesseer on Sept 21, 2015 22:32:45 GMT -5
so what the **** are we doing there if not to change something? Anyone who sits by while a kid is raped and listens to it is not a hero. If you want to say they are doing their job, and that counts for something, I don't know what. When I had the privilege of being drafted and sent to Vietnam, we were all given class lessons on the do's and don'ts that we would encounter incountry with the Vietnamese population, and we were to be cognizant of their customs and the differences we would see. We were also told to be nice about it, and stay clear. Hearts and minds, hearts and minds, Didn't work well back then either. Not that we would encounter such atrocities as this, but it was about winning the hearts and minds of the people as well as the government in charge at the time. I am simply trying to give everyone a perspective from the military and political side of the fight there, but I agree, this is stone cold wrong. If being drafted was a privilege, then what was voluntarily joining the military-a misfortune?
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,510
|
Post by Tennesseer on Sept 21, 2015 22:37:18 GMT -5
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Sept 21, 2015 22:40:30 GMT -5
I've never served in the Armed Forces but, as I understand it, if you're given an order by a superior officer(s) you have to obey that order or, possibly, face a court martial. Soldiers don't get to decide which orders they're going to follow and which they're not going to follow, do they? Since they've been told not to interfere, am I wrong to assume some pretty strong consequences could result if one, or more of them disobeyed the orders they were given? What would happen if several decided to interfere, despite orders not to do so, and one or more of them were killed or badly injured? This is a serious question from someone who really doesn't have a clue what the answer might be.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 4, 2024 6:19:57 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 22:52:12 GMT -5
what a sick world we live in where rape of children is ignored for politics. It is within earshot. We are the strongest military in the world and we're scared of what will happen if we let a few soldiers stand up and stop a child getting raped. If that is really who we are, I hope we fail. It's not "ignored". It's just something that we can't do anything about. You do understand the difference I hope. Just curious... how would it help if (for example) a squad of soldiers took down a warlord that was abusing a kid, and then the Afghan government told us to "get the fuck out!"... so we had to leave, then the Taliban took back over (because the whole point of us still being there is to keep the "good" government viable)... and we had 9-11 (version 2.0) shortly thereafter because the Taliban let the terrorists train in their country again? Yes. We'd save the boy. Good for us. But we'd lose the country and all the people that died afterwards in all the terrorist attacks that came from the camps the Taliban allowed. Is that a good trade for you? For the record, I think what's happening is a heinous crime not only against the kids, but against human decency itself... but there's not much I can do about it... is there?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 4, 2024 6:19:57 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 22:52:49 GMT -5
does it damage our soldiers psychologically to make them just sit there and do nothing?
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
|
Post by zibazinski on Sept 22, 2015 8:04:33 GMT -5
Probably but we have been taught that pedophiles and rapists are bad. I agree because this is how I was taught. I was also taught that incest was wrong but in some cultures, it isn't. It's not my place to tell another culture their culture is wrong. I didn't like that our women soldiers had to wear head scarves and were treated like shit in countries I consider to not be worth the blood of our soldiers. But that was their culture. Accept it or not.
|
|
Value Buy
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 17:57:07 GMT -5
Posts: 18,680
Today's Mood: Getting better by the day!
Location: In the middle of enjoying retirement!
Favorite Drink: Zombie Dust from Three Floyd's brewery
Mini-Profile Name Color: e61975
Mini-Profile Text Color: 196ce6
|
Post by Value Buy on Sept 22, 2015 8:35:23 GMT -5
When I had the privilege of being drafted and sent to Vietnam, we were all given class lessons on the do's and don'ts that we would encounter incountry with the Vietnamese population, and we were to be cognizant of their customs and the differences we would see. We were also told to be nice about it, and stay clear. Hearts and minds, hearts and minds, Didn't work well back then either. Not that we would encounter such atrocities as this, but it was about winning the hearts and minds of the people as well as the government in charge at the time. I am simply trying to give everyone a perspective from the military and political side of the fight there, but I agree, this is stone cold wrong. If being drafted was a privilege, then what was voluntarily joining the military-a misfortune? do not assume being drafted was not a privilege. I thought it was terrible when I received the draft notice in 1969. The end of my little insulated world. Turned out not to be. I learned a lot about the world and myself in those two years. I will not deny I had a rather easy tour in Vietnam, if anyone can say it was "easy". Emotionally, you never knew for a fact what might happen each day. For many GI'S it was a physical and emotional nightmare, for myself, more just emotional. Please do not turn this discussion about me. TY
|
|
Value Buy
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 17:57:07 GMT -5
Posts: 18,680
Today's Mood: Getting better by the day!
Location: In the middle of enjoying retirement!
Favorite Drink: Zombie Dust from Three Floyd's brewery
Mini-Profile Name Color: e61975
Mini-Profile Text Color: 196ce6
|
Post by Value Buy on Sept 22, 2015 8:40:13 GMT -5
I've never served in the Armed Forces but, as I understand it, if you're given an order by a superior officer(s) you have to obey that order or, possibly, face a court martial. Soldiers don't get to decide which orders they're going to follow and which they're not going to follow, do they? Since they've been told not to interfere, am I wrong to assume some pretty strong consequences could result if one, or more of them disobeyed the orders they were given? What would happen if several decided to interfere, despite orders not to do so, and one or more of them were killed or badly injured? This is a serious question from someone who really doesn't have a clue what the answer might be. Sort of true, I guess. You could file a formal complaint, and then find your transferred to a forward observation point in the middle of nowhere taking fire every day within a week or so. Granted in today's armed forces, that might not happen because everyone is so specialized in training, plus you are assigned to an National Guard unit with very limited assignment duties....... so it may not happen to a majority of soldiers stationed there.
|
|
busymom
Distinguished Associate
Why is the rum always gone? Oh...that's why.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 21:09:36 GMT -5
Posts: 28,397
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"https://cdn.nickpic.host/images/IPauJ5.jpg","color":""}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0D317F
Mini-Profile Text Color: 0D317F
|
Post by busymom on Sept 22, 2015 9:11:19 GMT -5
Granted, WWII was a long time ago, but Dad told me that no one dared to disobey an order. The least that would happen to you (in the Navy) was that your commanding officer would make your life miserable. Even those who asked questions were often punished. Sadly, when I was of age, Dad told me to stay OUT of the service. (He also said it was no place for a lady.)
I wonder if things happening like this is why the suicide rate among those in the armed services is so high now? Maybe they get back home, & their conscience is gnawing on them.
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,720
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
|
Post by Opti on Sept 22, 2015 9:27:13 GMT -5
The end of Tenn's link has a story about someone who did something. Because of it he left the military.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 22, 2015 14:54:17 GMT -5
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 22, 2015 14:55:59 GMT -5
what a sick world we live in where rape of children is ignored for politics. It is within earshot. We are the strongest military in the world and we're scared of what will happen if we let a few soldiers stand up and stop a child getting raped. If that is really who we are, I hope we fail. It's not "ignored". It's just something that we can't do anything about. You do understand the difference I hope. Just curious... how would it help if (for example) a squad of soldiers took down a warlord that was abusing a kid, and then the Afghan government told us to "get the fuck out!"... so we had to leave, then the Taliban took back over (because the whole point of us still being there is to keep the "good" government viable)... and we had 9-11 (version 2.0) shortly thereafter because the Taliban let the terrorists train in their country again? Yes. We'd save the boy. Good for us. But we'd lose the country and all the people that died afterwards in all the terrorist attacks that came from the camps the Taliban allowed. Is that a good trade for you? For the record, I think what's happening is a heinous crime not only against the kids, but against human decency itself... but there's not much I can do about it... is there? Depends on why we can't do anything about it. Can we actually not do anything about it, or are our soldiers "just following orders" and obeying orders which are the result of our policy to look the other way on child sex abuse because it is a "cultural norm" in muslim countries who follow in the footsteps a murdering pedophile prophet?
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 22, 2015 14:58:00 GMT -5
|
|