Thinking of Shaking Things Up

[violagirl]

My husband and I were talking the other day and he mentioned he regrets never living anywhere different. We were married at 21 and have been homeowners since 23 and have basically lived in the same general area as my family has lived for the past 500-600 years. So one thing led to another and we are looking at moving to London. I work at Big 4 so it might be possible for me to get a transfer for at least 1-2 years. We could move somewhere in North America a little easier but that does not seem quite as exciting as going the other direction. He is in IT industry, so either he could convince his current employer and keep his current job or possibly find a job/contract there. 

I'm making a list of pros and cons and doing a bit of dreaming/logistics. Our two biggest obstacles: house and pets. Ok probably biggest obstacle is pets. I think it may be hard enough to find a landlord that will let us take 3 small dogs let alone 3 cats too. Cats are also 13 years old so if say we did this in 2 years time they would be 15 and I think may not survive that kind of upheaval. On the other hand, if we wait for the cats to live out their natural life - who knows - they are generally exceedingly healthy and might be cats that live to 30.   I could try to find nice homes for them, but lets face it, a) I don't trust very many people to take care of them properly and b) no one wants an old cat. 

Solution 1: We find a trusted person who is willing to take in 3 cats. I would pay for vet/food/litter and an appropriate amount for caretaking duties. Con to this idea is finding someone who can take 3 cats. 

Solution 2: Since we would need to sell our current home, we could purchase a smaller house or duplex for $140,000 - $170,000. We have about $100k+ equity in our current home, so we could have a minimal if any mortgage on the new house. Especially if we also sold our cars and much of our current belongings. The benefit of doing this would be: 1. With no/almost 0 mortgage it frees up a lot of cash 2. Cats would have a home 3. We could probably easily find a friend willing to live there for a nominal rent who we would also trust to take care of the cats. 4. I know it sounds like I am buying my cats a house but the 4th benefit to this plan is we would not have to sell ALL our belongings and we would have a house to come back to when we returned. Con: slightly more expensive than first option, especially if there is a house emergency or major maintenance issue

We have no kids, just animals. 

Ok so that logistic taken care of, there is finding a place to rent. So now we are down to 3 small dogs (under 15lbs). Leaving them behind is not an option. 

Husband's view is if we move to London we move to LONDON - you know the white Regency row houses, I guess more central area.  My view is I don't mind being in the Reading office. No need to be right downtown. I'm also a country kind of girl, not Posh Spice so I'm a little leery of diving right from country living to central London. On the other hand, the purpose of the move is to do something completely different so I'm not completely closed to that idea. Just a little more hesitant. It would be kind of nice not to have a car though. Not sure how possible it is living in outskirts. 

I don't really care if we are in a 1 bedroom tiny place. I'm not sure how soundproof terraced houses are so not sure if neighbours would want 3 terriers living next door but a fenced in garden or something would be more important than a second bedroom. 

Now a few questions:

Does anyone have any experience flying to Europe with dogs? How did that go?
For those North Americans who have made the leap to move to Europe would you recommend it? What was the best/worst part?

[sarcasticgirl]

My old roommate moved to the UK for 18 months with her 2 cats. It seemed pretty easy... The worst part being that her cats were delayed going through customs or something like that and she had to wait 6 hours for them. Everything else was just paperwork and documentation from the vet here.

Eta I believe it can get pricey getting from reading to London. I'd definitely want to stay in London proper, along a tube line.

The glorious thing (to me) with regards to living in London is just how easy and cheap it is to get around Europe!

If my husband were on board for something like that... I would totally go for it.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using proboards

[shanendoah]

Problem number 1 - Work Visas - will England let you in?
Problem number 2 - No way do you afford any property in LONDON for less than $200k American. Not even certain you can buy in England without actually being a citizen (lots of European countries have odd rules).

In addition to vet certificates, animals are often required to go through a quarantine process that can last a couple months. You might want to check into that.

Check and see which airlines even allow animals to fly internationally. They need to be in a pressurized part of the plane. And with 2 terriers, you might be able to get away with each of you having one in an airline approved cabin kennel (which becomes your under the seat in front of you carry-on), I doubt they are small enough you could get all 3 in that way.


Sorry to rain on your parade. I hope you and DH really are able to find a way to work this out, but moving internationally is NOT the same as moving within the country, and there are a lot more little things you have to think of.

I say this knowing someone who bought a condo in Canada, 10+ years before retiring, with the plan of retiring there. The assumption was that by buying property in Canada, they would be guaranteed their Visa. They were wrong. Canada denied them anything other than a visitation Visa, basically on the theory of "you did not work/pay taxes here, so we're not letting you move here to take advantage of our socialized medicine right as you enter the most medically expensive period of your life".

[shanendoah]

Currently, the US Dollar is worth about 66% of a British Pound. That means your $170k comes out to about 110k pounds.

On Zooopla.co.uk, I did find a one bedroom flat for 190k pounds


Edited to add: Links on the bottom of the page took me to some one bedroom flats for 175k pounds, but I did not see anything cheaper than that.

[sarcasticgirl]

I read the OP post as buying a small place in the US and renting it to someone who would live there and care for the cats ? It would be silly to buy property in the UK if they only plan on being there a year or so.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using proboards

[tskeeter]

I expect that if you are going to take pets into Europe, they will have to be quarantined for several weeks to six months on the London end.

Most desitinations have expat web forums that will give you a lot of understanding what it's going to take to live overseas for a few years.  Just search on living in England and you'll come up with several websites, blogs, etc.  And a ready resource for asking questions.  One of the hot issues these days is banking.  Because of the reporting requirements that the US imposes, many foreign banks will not open accounts for US citizens. 

We're planning on spending a year or so in Ireland in the next couple of years.  In preparation, when we had to put the dogs down, we didn't get new pets.  We'll do that when we're done traveling.  We've considered a variety of options for the house.  Since we're talking about a fairly short period of time, selling the house isn't a consideration.  But, when my aunt and uncle spent a year in Denmark, they arranged for a grad student to live in their house (Unk was a university professor).  Don't know whether there was rent, or a just keep an eye on things arrangement.  Another option would be for a family member to use the house.  Since the aunt and uncle have lived and worked in Europe three different times, we've talked with them quite a bit about differing options.  Even so, we were a bit surprised when they said, we'd come and stay at your house.

When it comes to buying and selling houses, I think I'd be inclined to keep my US house and rent it out while I was out of the country for a few years.  Especially if I was planning to move back to the same area when I moved back to the States.  Don't know how Big 4 handles relocations, but if I had to give up 6% of the value of my US house  and three or four years later give up a similar percentage of of value of a UK house, I'd have a hard time taking that kind of a hit. 

[emma1420]

With the pet passport program quantaine is a thing of the past thank goodness.

i came to the US from the UK, and aside from food, everything else is twice the price.  Housing, in and around London, makes all but San Francisco in the US look like the rural Midwest.  My step-sister just bought a one bed flat a year ago, about 45 minutes from the city Center and it was over half a million dollars.  She rented it out and is getting about 3k a month in rent.  Your husbands idea of a flat in the Center of London in a period property could easily be 10k a month.  I suspect you'll find more dog friendly landlords though as many people there have dogs in very small spaces.

i think you should go for it if you can make it work.  It will be a great experience, but I would recommend that you really look at housing closely, because it's very very expensive.  If you plan on having a car take into consideration that gas ranges from $8-$10 a gallon.  Food in the grocery store is reasonable, but restaurant meals will be triple the price.

The UK is great and I bet you would have a great experience, but it will also be ridiculously expensive.  So I would do a lot of research.  Also unless your husband gets a work visa, he won't be able to work for any company even his own.  The immigration laws there are as strict as the US's.  

Good luck with whatever you decide!

[steph08]

shane - I believe she meant their house and buying something smaller in the US for someone to live in for the time while watching their cats.

I agree that housing is going to be your biggest hurdle, but if you are willing to go with a small space not in a super high-demand area, you will probably be fine. It's only a one or two year period - if you have to cut back on retirement and other savings during that time period to make it work, I would.

I'm not an expat or anything, but I lived in London for three months during a study abroad program. We lived about two blocks away from Regency Park / Great Portland Street tube stop. It was the best experience of my life. If I hadn't met my DH prior to going to London, I would have moved back after college graduation.

If you're going to do it, do it right and live within city limits. You don't have to live in Notting Hill, but don't live on the outskirts.

[emma1420]

Sept 18, 2015 19:17:50 GMT -5 @tbird said:

Sept 18, 2015 18:46:11 GMT -5 emma1420 said:

With the pet passport program quantaine is a thing of the past thank goodness.

i came to the US from the UK, and aside from food, everything else is twice the price.  Housing, in and around London, makes all but San Francisco in the US look like the rural Midwest.  My step-sister just bought a one bed flat a year ago, about 45 minutes from the city Center and it was over half a million dollars.  She rented it out and is getting about 3k a month in rent.  Your husbands idea of a flat in the Center of London in a period property could easily be 10k a month.  I suspect you'll find more dog friendly landlords though as many people there have dogs in very small spaces.

i think you should go for it if you can make it work.  It will be a great experience, but I would recommend that you really look at housing closely, because it's very very expensive.  If you plan on having a car take into consideration that gas ranges from $8-$10 a gallon.  Food in the grocery store is reasonable, but restaurant meals will be triple the price.

The UK is great and I bet you would have a great experience, but it will also be ridiculously expensive.  So I would do a lot of research.  Also unless your husband gets a work visa, he won't be able to work for any company even his own.  The immigration laws there are as strict as the US's.  

Good luck with whatever you decide!

It is?? wow I never hear about that change

Yes.  The change was made about 10 years ago.  At first you had to get a rabies titer run by one of two labs in the country that were approved, and then wait six months before you traveled.  I had a friend who just went back two years ago, and she only had to wait about three weeks before she traveled with her dog.  So it's not the nightmare it used to be.  

It's still a multi-step process but it's easier and most of it occurs stateside now.

[violagirl]

OK. First I would be buying a property here in Canada and having someone or family member rent/caretake. lol I'd shutter to see what kind of garbage bin I could buy for $150k CAD in London. Here I can get a newish duplex or a 80's bungalow or something to that effect. 

We could wait until the cats die but who knows when that could happen? Next week or 10 years from now. 

Part of the relocation program at work is I'd have a Tier 2 visa and my spouse would also be eligible for one. How the transfer program works, is I'd be hired by the UK firm and paid in pounds and at normal London manager type salary. From my research it would be around 55k - 70k pounds per year. 

When we were visiting UK last year we found the prices (aside from housing) to be comparable to here - but just in pounds. For example, here gas is $1.05 per Litre and in London it is $1.11pounds per litre. So yes if I was being paid in Canadian dollars it would be twice as much, but if I were paid in pounds it is comparable. 

From what I have seen from checking rental websites - I could find some decent 2-3 bedroom flats/terraced house for 1800-2300 pounds per month. Which is a bit of an ouch. On the other hand- no $600 month heating bills in the winter, we would not have 2 cars or housecleaner. Internet is cheaper. The one thing that is cheaper in London! 

I really like my house here but I like the idea of a smaller place. 

[zibazinski]

I'm having enough trouble finding someone to care for my five year old healthy cat even with paying for his care. Basically no one wants a cat. I also will not be replacing the cats as they pass on. If I'm ever able to travel again, I need to not be stressing about my critters being cared for.

[emma1420]

Sept 18, 2015 19:58:55 GMT -5 violagirl said:

OK. First I would be buying a property here in Canada and having someone or family member rent/caretake. lol I'd shutter to see what kind of garbage bin I could buy for $150k CAD in London. Here I can get a newish duplex or a 80's bungalow or something to that effect. 

We could wait until the cats die but who knows when that could happen? Next week or 10 years from now. 

Part of the relocation program at work is I'd have a Tier 2 visa and my spouse would also be eligible for one. How the transfer program works, is I'd be hired by the UK firm and paid in pounds and at normal London manager type salary. From my research it would be around 55k - 70k pounds per year. 

When we were visiting UK last year we found the prices (aside from housing) to be comparable to here - but just in pounds. For example, here gas is $1.05 per Litre and in London it is $1.11pounds per litre. So yes if I was being paid in Canadian dollars it would be twice as much, but if I were paid in pounds it is comparable. 

From what I have seen from checking rental websites - I could find some decent 2-3 bedroom flats/terraced house for 1800-2300 pounds per month. Which is a bit of an ouch. On the other hand- no $600 month heating bills in the winter, we would not have 2 cars or housecleaner. Internet is cheaper. The one thing that is cheaper in London! 

I really like my house here but I like the idea of a smaller place. 

Cell phone service is also cheaper.  Utilities will be cheaper. Your taxes will be higher (although I'm not sure what the income tax rate is in Canada). I think you could be paying almost 30% in taxes if you make the low end, and 35% if you make the high end.  You also have to consider that you would also be paying council tax (the equivalent of property tax) even if you rent.  Council tax can range between £700 to £2000 a year depending on the band.   So you would need to add that to whatever rent you would pay.  

A montly rail pass can easily be £300-£400 a month, if you don't have a car.  But, you will have access to the NHS, but most good employers offer supplemental insurance so you can go private (although the employee usually has to pay part of the premium).

i think the fact that you know and are okay with a much smaller place means you've already cleared the biggest hurdle.  Because I find many people who move there from the US struggle with how much smaller everything is in Europe.

[violagirl]

i think the fact that you know and are okay with a much smaller place means you've already cleared the biggest hurdle. Because I find many people who move there from the US struggle with how much smaller everything is in Europe.

That's one of the great things about Europe. Everything is smaller. And closer. And portion sizes are smaller. It's great. And there are trains!! You have no idea how the concept of public transportation is so far away from what we see here. 

Unless I want to custom build my own house here and even then most covenants restrict to 1600 square feet at a minimum, most nice new houses are enormous. Which is ridiculous for 2 people. I was looking at houses in a particular area of town that I would like to live in but I do not need a 4 bedroom, 4 bathroom house for just 2 of us. And I do not want to live in a retirement community where houses are a bit more modest in size. 

[TheOtherMe]

Living in London or the UK, but there is no way I can accomplish it.

I have a friend who did and she returned about a year ago so she wouldn't miss out on her grandchildren growing up.  She had a pet type airline service fly her cats home to the US.  She had gotten her degree in midwifery in the UK and then was able to obtain a work visa.  She was able to stay 10 years.  She found a beautiful place out in the country, not far from London and near some village where she worked.

She misses it and being able to go in to London to do things, but she couldn't give up the opportunity to see the grandchildren grow up.

If Canada would let me in, I'd go up and care for your cats.  I'd take my one cat along!

[weltschmerz]

I say this knowing someone who bought a condo in Canada, 10+ years before retiring, with the plan of retiring there. The assumption was that by buying property in Canada, they would be guaranteed their Visa. They were wrong. Canada denied them anything other than a visitation Visa, basically on the theory of "you did not work/pay taxes here, so we're not letting you move here to take advantage of our socialized medicine right as you enter the most medically expensive period of your life".

Well, of course! Quite a few Americans think that buying property in Canada will give them an easy in.

It doesn't. We don't want to take care of you in your golden years, when you're going to suck up services but not pay anything in income tax.

[bobosensei]

I have flown to Germany with two dogs, but the UK has vastly different rules.  I believe you can get around the quarantine period with the right blood work, but you have to start it a year before you plan to move to avoid quarantine.  The process will be similar to Hawaii or Japan.  I only know because the military sends people these places and I've heard a little bit from people going.  You can research this yourself with a simple google search.  Otherwise it is easy to fly with animals.  There can be restrictions to flying in summer with heat, and sometimes by breed if the dogs have a short nose.  A lot of this can be found on the airline websites too.  The big thing is cost.  In 2009 when we flew Atlanta to Frankfurt we paid 400 for our dogs.  One is 50 pounds and the other 20.  They've changed some of the regulations and customs so it is now more expensive.  Plus they charge by a combination of kennel size and weight.  My 50 pound dog is tall with ears that stick up.  I had to buy him a kennel meant for a Great Dane.  It weighs 50 pounds on its own so depending on who we fly going home I might have to put him on a diet as some airlines won't take a dong and kennel that are over 100 pounds.

Your best bet is being sponsored by your company to move there.  Getting a visa might be difficult, and if you go over on a tourist visa you only have 90 days.  I am not sure you can get someone to hire you while you are there on a tourist visa.  Especially if you don't have a unique skill set.  I don't think there is a shortage of accountants and IT people in London.  If you transfer your job then your husband will likely have the right visa status to work which will make him more marketable.  True, he could just keep his job, but you have to look at residency and weigh the possibility of tax consequences.

I think you can find a place to rent with 3 dogs, but it will be expensive.  You might want to consider one of you travelling ahead and securing a place to minimize having dogs in a hotel for weeks on end.

I would disagree that cell phone service and utilities are cheaper in Europe.  The year DH had an iphone he paid 60 euro a month which at the time with the exchange rate was 90 bucks, and the data is slower and very spotty and your speed slowed down a lot after the first 500 megabytes.  That was back in 2010, but my family came to visit this summer and they complained about it every day too.  I will admit, I don't know what the prices are on them now as we have prepaid dumb phones.  And our electric bill just reset for the year, we don't use a dryer and we keep everything unplugged when not in use.  We are still in the "high consumption" category though just barely.  If we'd kept using electricity like Americans customarily do our bill would be triple what it is now or around 300 for about a 1200 square foot home.  And remember there is no AC here and heat is a radiator- so our electric bill is just for what gets plugged in, hot water, and lights.  Also we pay about 75 euro a month for water which includes sewer and trash pick up. That is just water to bathe and wash clothes and dishes.  We don't water grass or wash cars.  Maybe the UK has cheaper utilities than Germany, or maybe that is just if you find an apartment that includes you utilities.  But my experience in Germany is that these things are more expensive than in the US, and the UK has a worse exchange rate.  So even if you can afford the prices now you have to be prepared when the rates change.  Things are much better now in 2015 than when we moved here in 2009 because of the exchange rate.  Now we do get slow internet and phone for 40 euro a month, and I think that is cheaper than the US.  The faster internet just became available last year, but I didn't want to sign a new contract.  I think it was just 20 euro a month more.  We don't have cable.  Instead I have a US IP cover, and we use Netflix and Hulu.  But now that netflix is overseas I can pick it up on the appletv and it is cool to pick up the programming that they have in Germany as it is different than what US subscribers get.  

[bobosensei]

Okay I got curious and it looks like the pet quarantine stuff is down to 3 months, but you have to get blood drawn after the vaccination to make sure it was successful.  So it is still more work than what I had to do to get my dogs to Germany.


www.gov.uk/guidance/pet-travel-quarantine

[weltschmerz]

Post by bobosensei on 32 minutes ago

I have flown to Germany with two dogs, but the UK has vastly different rules. I believe you can get around the quarantine period with the right blood work, but you have to start it a year before you plan to move to avoid quarantine. The process will be similar to Hawaii or Japan. I only know because the military sends people these places and I've heard a little bit from people going. You can research this yourself with a simple google search. Otherwise it is easy to fly with animals. There can be restrictions to flying in summer with heat, and sometimes by breed if the dogs have a short nose. A lot of this can be found on the airline websites too. The big thing is cost. In 2009 when we flew Atlanta to Frankfurt we paid 400 for our dogs. One is 50 pounds and the other 20. They've changed some of the regulations and customs so it is now more expensive. Plus they charge by a combination of kennel size and weight. My 50 pound dog is tall with ears that stick up. I had to buy him a kennel meant for a Great Dane. It weighs 50 pounds on its own so depending on who we fly going home I might have to put him on a diet as some airlines won't take a dong and kennel that are over 100 pounds.

A 100 pound dong. I'd pay to see that.

[8 Bit WWBG]

Reading <-> London is quite a long train ride to do twice a day.  IIRC there is a train that runs from Reading to Waterloo, but that ride is well over an hour.

I'm kind of feeling the same thing as you guys.  We've lived in the same house for a long time, and while it is home, sometimes I wonder about a change of scenery.

[MarleyKeezy78]

Sept 19, 2015 1:57:55 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Post by bobosensei on 32 minutes ago

I have flown to Germany with two dogs, but the UK has vastly different rules. I believe you can get around the quarantine period with the right blood work, but you have to start it a year before you plan to move to avoid quarantine. The process will be similar to Hawaii or Japan. I only know because the military sends people these places and I've heard a little bit from people going. You can research this yourself with a simple google search. Otherwise it is easy to fly with animals. There can be restrictions to flying in summer with heat, and sometimes by breed if the dogs have a short nose. A lot of this can be found on the airline websites too. The big thing is cost. In 2009 when we flew Atlanta to Frankfurt we paid 400 for our dogs. One is 50 pounds and the other 20. They've changed some of the regulations and customs so it is now more expensive. Plus they charge by a combination of kennel size and weight. My 50 pound dog is tall with ears that stick up. I had to buy him a kennel meant for a Great Dane. It weighs 50 pounds on its own so depending on who we fly going home I might have to put him on a diet as some airlines won't take a dong and kennel that are over 100 pounds.

A 100 pound dong. I'd pay to see that.

<<Snort>> Must be from a sperm whale 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Sept 19, 2015 1:57:55 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Post by bobosensei on 32 minutes ago

I have flown to Germany with two dogs, but the UK has vastly different rules. I believe you can get around the quarantine period with the right blood work, but you have to start it a year before you plan to move to avoid quarantine. The process will be similar to Hawaii or Japan. I only know because the military sends people these places and I've heard a little bit from people going. You can research this yourself with a simple google search. Otherwise it is easy to fly with animals. There can be restrictions to flying in summer with heat, and sometimes by breed if the dogs have a short nose. A lot of this can be found on the airline websites too. The big thing is cost. In 2009 when we flew Atlanta to Frankfurt we paid 400 for our dogs. One is 50 pounds and the other 20. They've changed some of the regulations and customs so it is now more expensive. Plus they charge by a combination of kennel size and weight. My 50 pound dog is tall with ears that stick up. I had to buy him a kennel meant for a Great Dane. It weighs 50 pounds on its own so depending on who we fly going home I might have to put him on a diet as some airlines won't take a dong and kennel that are over 100 pounds.

A 100 pound dong. I'd pay to see that.

SO's sister (a vet) had a dog that looked like a small pony.  He was a Great Pyranees something cross.  I think this dog weighed 120 lbs and he wasn't overweight, just a HUGE dog!

[debthaven]

I haven't read all the posts but know that housing (and transport) in London is UBER expensive. It's a huge city, and a 60-90 min commute to work is extremely common (one way).

I can't address transporting your animals, but quarantining them need not be an issue. I don't know the modalities but we have friends here who regularly go back and forth between France and London with their pets and as long as you have a Pet Passport that is up to date, there are no more long quarantine requirements for the UK. I don't know if there is a short quarantine or not for animals coming from the US. 

It takes a while to make roots in any new place, especially abroad. It may be exciting, but it may be pretty lonely too. London really is VAST. But at least you'd speak the language, and there are plenty of Americans there. 

My DH is from London. When we go back there, we never have enough time to see everybody in one visit. If we're staying with people in south London, we rarely manage to see people in north London, or vice versa, etc. 

I grew up in NY, live outside Paris, and you couldn't pay me enough to live in London, it's just too vast. Also, I don't know where you live in the US, but you need to know that in winter, the sun sets around 4 pm in London. Personally I find that SERIOUSLY depressing. I HATE going to London in winter. 

But England is a beautiful country.

I don't know Reading at all. 

Good luck!

[Lizard Queen]

Sept 20, 2015 7:10:22 GMT -5 Ratchets said:

Sept 18, 2015 17:07:11 GMT -5 violagirl said:

My husband and I were talking the other day and he mentioned he regrets never living anywhere different. We were married at 21 and have been homeowners since 23 and have basically lived in the same general area as my family has lived for the past 500-600 years. So one thing led to another and we are looking at moving to London. I work at Big 4 so it might be possible for me to get a transfer for at least 1-2 years. We could move somewhere in North America a little easier but that does not seem quite as exciting as going the other direction. He is in IT industry, so either he could convince his current employer and keep his current job or possibly find a job/contract there. 

I'm making a list of pros and cons and doing a bit of dreaming/logistics. Our two biggest obstacles: house and pets. Ok probably biggest obstacle is pets. I think it may be hard enough to find a landlord that will let us take 3 small dogs let alone 3 cats too. Cats are also 13 years old so if say we did this in 2 years time they would be 15 and I think may not survive that kind of upheaval. On the other hand, if we wait for the cats to live out their natural life - who knows - they are generally exceedingly healthy and might be cats that live to 30.   I could try to find nice homes for them, but lets face it, a) I don't trust very many people to take care of them properly and b) no one wants an old cat. 

Solution 1: We find a trusted person who is willing to take in 3 cats. I would pay for vet/food/litter and an appropriate amount for caretaking duties. Con to this idea is finding someone who can take 3 cats. 

Solution 2: Since we would need to sell our current home, we could purchase a smaller house or duplex for $140,000 - $170,000. We have about $100k+ equity in our current home, so we could have a minimal if any mortgage on the new house. Especially if we also sold our cars and much of our current belongings. The benefit of doing this would be: 1. With no/almost 0 mortgage it frees up a lot of cash 2. Cats would have a home 3. We could probably easily find a friend willing to live there for a nominal rent who we would also trust to take care of the cats. 4. I know it sounds like I am buying my cats a house but the 4th benefit to this plan is we would not have to sell ALL our belongings and we would have a house to come back to when we returned. Con: slightly more expensive than first option, especially if there is a house emergency or major maintenance issue

We have no kids, just animals. 

Ok so that logistic taken care of, there is finding a place to rent. So now we are down to 3 small dogs (under 15lbs). Leaving them behind is not an option. 

Husband's view is if we move to London we move to LONDON - you know the white Regency row houses, I guess more central area.  My view is I don't mind being in the Reading office. No need to be right downtown. I'm also a country kind of girl, not Posh Spice so I'm a little leery of diving right from country living to central London. On the other hand, the purpose of the move is to do something completely different so I'm not completely closed to that idea. Just a little more hesitant. It would be kind of nice not to have a car though. Not sure how possible it is living in outskirts. 

I don't really care if we are in a 1 bedroom tiny place. I'm not sure how soundproof terraced houses are so not sure if neighbours would want 3 terriers living next door but a fenced in garden or something would be more important than a second bedroom. 

Now a few questions:

Does anyone have any experience flying to Europe with dogs? How did that go?
For those North Americans who have made the leap to move to Europe would you recommend it? What was the best/worst part?

We've flown to Europe and from Europe to the states with animals and they were fine - cats not dogs.  All kinds of friends have flown with dogs though and they end up fine.  One thing about England though is they are quite strict on their immigration laws for pets - they don't quarantine them anymore but they do require certain vaccinations at certain points before you "import" them.  If you get really serious about this I can find some more detailed info pretty easy and send it.

I think it's an awesome idea!  Take that for what it's worth, we've lived overseas for 16 out of the last 18 years so might be biased.  It's awesome though, and if you get a chance I would say do it...You already say "neighbours" so you can speak British .

It's expensive in Europe though - make sure you get a COLA (cost of living allowance) to live there.  Gas is very high, rent is high, utilities are high, etc.  We lived in a pretty rural area that was over an hour from London and rent was £1250/month.  Gas was around £1.20/liter so that works out to $7-8 per gallon.  It's ok if your employer is paying it, but to come out of pocket and pay those kind of prices would be tough for most people.

It depends on what outskirts you live in probably on whether you can get by without a car.  We knew people who lived in Norwich that didn't have a car so it can be done, but if you want to travel away from London it would be best to have a car.  I guess again that is personal preference, I wouldn't want to live there without one because there are so many sights to see outside of the public transportation - talking about outside of London.

I don't think you can find a more friendly group of people than the Brits.  Especially as Americans, they seem to really enjoy talking about their country and showing you around or telling you good places to visit and things like that.  There's a lot more to England than London too, we just spent six years there and travelled around quite a bit so can blast you with about a thousand things to see and do.  I like talking about travelling so get worked up over it and go overboard with ideas and all that, so not going to get started here until you guys get serious or else it will bore everybody to tears LoL.

6 years? Wow. Do your children have British accents?

[violagirl]

Well, once I started discussing the logistics my husband got cold feet.   Maybe we will revisit in a few years when we have less animals. We do plan to start downsizing in the next couple of years anyway, so that would make any big moves easier.  Sometimes it is frustrating when he is not willing to follow through with his ideas. 

[sarcasticgirl]

Chicago has similar sunset Times during the winter... Extremely depressing, but if a girl from Texas can hack it, anyone can!

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using proboards

[Bonny]

Often it's a matter of timing.

We moved 5x over DH's 25 year career with a international company. We did turn down one move from SF to Brussels. The timing wasn't right. I finally got a wonderful job with a local transit district after consulting with them for 14 months and had bought our move up house the year before. I'm thinking this must have been in 1996-97. We did visit Brussels and while there were some upsides I knew I'd be very depressed and unhappy with the life I saw his boss' wife led.

Get up, take the children to school.

Go to the gym

Go to lunch with the ladies

Go shopping

Pick up the children

I was in career woman mode and I thought the opportunities for me to get a job in Brussels were extremely limited.

12 years later and after a six year detour to AZ we wound up in Bonn, Germany. We figured it was likely DH's "sunset tour" and did take advantage of travel in Europe. But there were downsides too. Going from AZ to Bonn was a dramatic shift in both weather and longitude. Our first winter had 8 snowfalls by Christmas. I was promised that Bonn was very temperate and he hardly ever snowed. Lucky us we experienced the worst winter in 20 years.  I realized that I probably get SAD in the winter with the sun rising at 9am and setting by 3pm. And living as an ex-Pat in a foreign country during a severe recession wasn't fun.

I'm glad we did it but I was also glad to "come home" after three years and appreciate how good we have it.

[haapai]

I'm sorry to hear that your husband got cold feet.  Perhaps you can pitch a more refined plan at him in a couple of years and get him to bite. 

The plan that you had included paying some pretty steep transaction costs associated with selling and buying a house.  It also had some exchange rate risk baked into it.  That is, no matter what being paid in pounds means, you're paying house-related expenses in one currency and renting in another and vulnerable to fluctuations in exchange rates. 

[violagirl]

I think we need to get in a more downsized place before this plan could become feasible. I am half way through a Masters degree and have 6 animals. Once the degree is done and the animals get whittled down we will be in a better position to move. The cats are around 13 years old so we anticipate a reduction in animal population in the next few years. While I"d consider giving them to a good home, it is more likely we will have to wait.