Real estate disclosure question

[ArchietheDragon]

Sept 3, 2015 12:20:01 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

So, we've got some water damage in our master bathroom. Looks like there was some water leakage around the edges of our shower doors. Softness and discoloration in the drywall at the edge of the tile, and some water damage under the vinyl flooring. Not a big deal, and we'll get it fixed.

However, our real estate agent told us to make sure we keep the bid and scope of work from the licensed contractor so we can disclose it to the buyer later. That wouldn't be a problem, except that I'm probably not going to use a licensed contractor. I have a friend that's a licensed contractor. He looked at it and said we could hire a contractor but it's going to run at least $100 an hour plus materials, and it's something that I can probably do on my own. He even offered to help me out a bit if I have any trouble with it. He also knows two local handymen, not licensed, that do really good work and would probably take the job for $40-50 an hour. So, if I do the work, or use an unlicensed handyman, how do I document and disclose the repairs? Do I even have to, or would it be considered regular maintenance and remodeling since we're replacing the vinyl flooring in the two bathrooms when we do it?

I believe you have to disclose water problems/damage.  So the realtor's is probably suggesting that you disclose that you had the water problem and you fixed it.  You prove you fixed it by showing them the paperwork from the contractor.   If you show the potential buyer paperwork from an unlicensed contractor they might not want to buy the place or they might want to get a credit.   

From what I know about your market I think another buyer would be lining up to buy it anyway, so why does it matter?

[emma1420]

Is there a question on the disclosure form that specifically asks about water damage?   In my state the disclosures are only related to the roof and basement.  If there isn't a specific question on the seller's disclosure form about water damage then I wouldn't disclose it.  

Existing homes aren't new and there are always things that have been repaired and/or fixed in it's life.  I suspect most people don't remember everything, especially if they are reasonably handy.

[ArchietheDragon]

Sept 3, 2015 12:47:09 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

I'm leaning towards fixing it myself. It's not a huge project. Replacing the vinyl flooring is a bigger deal than dealing with the little bit of water damage. That would mean I have no paperwork to document the repair at all though. Maybe some receipts from Lowes or Home Depot for the materials. I think my agent is required to disclose any property defects that she's aware of, and she's aware of the water damage. Just wondering if having no documentation to support the repair is kosher, since my agent has to disclose the damage.

It feels like she's being forced to work against me a little bit. If we'd done the repairs and new flooring on our own before she walked through the property she wouldn't have to say anything about it. Or she'd put brand new flooring in both bathrooms as a positive in the listing details. Since she saw it before we did it, she's required to tell the buyer there was a problem, and I don't want it to look like we tried to cover it up or something by not having documentation that it was fixed.

You will be able to find a buyers that won't care. 

[mroped]

I'd take some pictures when is torn apart but only if there is visible damage.
If you don't have a claim to your insurance company then there is no paper trail to be found.
If you feel that you can do it, you should but I don't think would be a big deal if you tell a prospective buyer : " yeah, we had once a small leak and we remediated as soon as we've seen it." If the problem is gone then I don't see what the issue would be!?
Only a person that is looking for any reason to haggle on the price would start picking at that!

[tskeeter]

Sept 3, 2015 12:38:22 GMT -5 emma1420 said:

Is there a question on the disclosure form that specifically asks about water damage?   In my state the disclosures are only related to the roof and basement.  If there isn't a specific question on the seller's disclosure form about water damage then I wouldn't disclose it.  

Existing homes aren't new and there are always things that have been repaired and/or fixed in it's life.  I suspect most people don't remember everything, especially if they are reasonably handy.

In CA, the west coast capital of bureaucracy, the real estate disclosure form is a small book.  I think it was over 10 pages when we sold our house.  It even requries that you disclose whether or not the home you are selling has a fireplace.  Like the buyer won't notice that big thing in the middle of the family room wall?  And I'm willing to bet that it's gotten even more involved in the 10 years since we sold a house in CA.

In my opinion, the disclosure form helps to ensure full employment for lawyers.  It encourages buyers to sue sellers for not disclosing every miniscule piece of information about the home they are selling. 

[kittensaver]

The last time we sold a house in the People's Republic of California ( ), our disclosure read something like this (I of course do not remember all of the details):

"As a part of routine home maintenance, over time we have made repairs to the following items:

 - then we bullet listed them (big, small, picky and everything else in between, including 1994 earthquake repairs)

Repairs requiring permits were made in accordance with the law. Permits are on file with the City building Dept."

==================

Would something like this work for you? You could fix the bathroom and note it as a repair. Which, of course, will not work if the bathroom repair is of a scope or type for which your City requires at permit. But what we did above let us list "picky" things and make them look like they were no big deal - and still comply with the law.

[zibazinski]

She is covering her ass. Too bad you didn't fix before listing with her. Yup, she knows and has to disclose. I wish you'd hired an inspector before you listed. As a buyer, I'm
not accepting a job done by someone unlicensed or the homeowner.

[zibazinski]

Yup, well even if you don't list with her, she knows, which means they'll all know. Cats out of the bag.

[zibazinski]

You couldn't see water damage?

[Deleted]

No biggie. I'm not in the business, but if your disclosure says yes, there was water damage, it was due to leakage around shower doors (i.e., something preventable that I can control and not due to some chronic problem that will cost me $$$ later) and it was fixed, as a buyer I'd have no problem with that.

[CCL]

Look at the disclosure form and see what it says. Myself, I would have fixed it as soon as I noticed it, so there wouldn't be much of an issue. Can't you just list it, then write "repaired?" As long as it's fixed, I wouldn't care about it, but we could fix that ourselves anyway. Or pay your licensed buddy a few bucks to help you with it and have him write you a receipt?

[mroped]

What's in that picture should qualify under routine maintenance not repair. Changing the linoleum could be something like " I didn't like the color anymore" but who knows what you people do in there in California?
In Pa I'd just get a case of beer and the neighbor, have the materials handy and we'll "get 'er done before supper!" Nobody needs to know and if somehow they find out you just ask them for proof. Done and doner!

[Bonny]

The disclosure form in CA is only 5 or 6 pages long.

Sum Dum Gai have you done the termite inspection yet? That inspection may pick up some additional disclosure/work to be done.

The "fear factor" is continued dry rot and/or "black mold". What you don't want is for someone to buy your house for top dollar, then the market drops and they will come back (they have up to 4 years) with a laundry list of things that you didn't disclose and sue you.

The water damage needs to not only be repaired but treated chemically so mold doesn't grow and damage more wood.

How much will your friend charge you? I'm surprised he quoted you $100/hr. The contractor we just used to do our deck repair/replacement charges me $45/hr under a time and materials arrangement. He's not a friend but that was the 4th project (500sqft addition, kitchen remodel, double bath remodel). He took a week off between jobs and did the repair for us.

I'm guessing if you do the tear out for him he can treat and do the replacement. You can get a receipt for that work and do the vinyl and baseboard replacement yourself. Show his receipt + your materials and that should be good enough.

[tskeeter]

Sept 3, 2015 17:39:20 GMT -5 Bonny said:

The disclosure form in CA is only 5 or 6 pages long.

Sum Dum Gai have you done the termite inspection yet? That inspection may pick up some additional disclosure/work to be done.

The "fear factor" is continued dry rot and/or "black mold". What you don't want is for someone to buy your house for top dollar, then the market drops and they will come back (they have up to 4 years) with a laundry list of things that you didn't disclose and sue you.

The water damage needs to not only be repaired but treated chemically so mold doesn't grow and damage more wood.

How much will your friend charge you? I'm surprised he quoted you $100/hr. The contractor we just used to do our deck repair/replacement charges me $45/hr under a time and materials arrangement. He's not a friend but that was the 4th project (500sqft addition, kitchen remodel, double bath remodel). He took a week off between jobs and did the repair for us.

I'm guessing if you do the tear out for him he can treat and do the replacement. You can get a receipt for that work and do the vinyl and baseboard replacement yourself. Show his receipt + your materials and that should be good enough.

Boy, that disclosure seemed longer, when we had to fill it out.  Maybe it seemed longer becaue it had so many things that I thought were just plain silly.

[Deleted]

The worst disclosure form I ever had to fill out came from the attorney of a couple whose offer I accepted on my home in NJ. The usual Qs about water damage, mold, roof repairs, etc. but then they were all over the place.  Is the property about to be condemned? Has toxic waste ever been generated or stored on the property?   Is commercial development planned in the immediate area? Is any residence in the neighborhood about to be turned into a group home for the mentally challenged? And after I filled it out (with no real issues), they backed out for no reason. 

If you sell property in MO they ask if it's been used as a meth lab. You have to fill out an additional form if it's been used as a meth lab.