BMW

[MJ2.0]

Do it and Uncle Phil's gonna come back and beat all your asses!

[TheHaitian]

Aug 29, 2015 22:09:55 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

Do it and Uncle Phil's gonna come back and beat all your asses!

Party pooper

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"You paid off your credit card, maxing out your retirement account , saving/building wealth .... You've earned it":::...

I know I have.  I should have had it already.  Its just not going to happen for a while, not until I exorcise some garbage from my life.

[TheHaitian]

Aug 30, 2015 9:17:48 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"You paid off your credit card, maxing out your retirement account , saving/building wealth .... You've earned it":::...

I know I have.  I should have had it already.  Its just not going to happen for a while, not until I exorcise some garbage from my life.

Life is short

Just do it !!!

[midjd]

You are a bad influence!

[Opti]

Aug 29, 2015 16:00:51 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

Also the "repairs" costs that everyone keeps on talking about, how bad are they?

It is in the multi-$1000s/yr over a 200k mile life. It has to do with 'design margin'. You can get 400 hp out of a 500 lb heavy duty V8 at 4500 rpm. Or you can get 400 hp out of a super charged 150 lb engine at 9000 rpm.

A performance car needs a light weight engine - plus light weight parts thru-out the car, to get optimal speeds from 400hp. The big V8 will likely provide 400hp to a 50,000 pound truck for 250,000 miles. Conversely, A tiny 400 hp Indy car engine is expected to run for 500 miles plus a little bit more.

The failure tree of a truck might be a .999 part bolted to a .999 part using a .999 bolt. Ie, a .997 probability of success. The Indy car might have a lightened .85 part bolt to a .85 part with a smaller .85 bolt - ie, a .61 chance of success.  So you can complete the Indy-500 61% of the time.

The performance cars - BMW, Mercedes, Passat, Audi, yada, are designed to operate much closer to the design limits that a Toyota.  And a bunch of failure-avoidance sensors need to be checked/adjusted regularly (thus the $1000 'tune-ups).   Eg - an engine is more powerful at closer to 230F. But if it goes a bit above, the coolant boils away quickly - so you need a very sophisticated warning device.   Or the 9000 rpm - centrifugal force goes up with rpm squared. So you need a sensor that shuts the engine down if you edge above 9000 - and that needs 'tuning'. And so on, thru-out the 1000+ parts of the car design.

The daily drivers - Toyota Honda, Ford, etc. are designed to have a BIG design margin - you can skip oil changes (not rec'd), over rev the engine (not rec'd), ignore the 5000 mile tune-ups (I've never had one in 200,000 miles).

Add to that the economy of scale.  BMW makes 2M cars a year, Totota makes 10M a year. That means that toyota does an extra pilot run to catch little things ahead of full production - broken glove box door, door hinges, heater blower switches, power window switches, yada.

BTW, when you buy a car, select the most common production option, the thing that they make 10M times a yr.  Anecdote:  In the 1950s most cars had window cranks and buyers were afraid to order PW cuz they broke a lot.  By 1980, nearly all cars had PWs - and if you ordered a car with window cranks, they wore out, turned very hard, then the little plastic knobs broke. Meanwhile the folks who ordered the now "normal" PWs had no troubles (don't ask how I know this).

While I agree with what some of what Phil writes above, other parts not as much. My 3 series weighs considerably more than my prior car, a Honda Accord LXI, even though the foot print is smaller as well.

Took a bit to find something, but I did find one link with engine weights. I noticed things like a consumer car such as the Audi S8 has an engine roughly the same weight as a Ferrari Enzo. The first weights are in kgs. so multiply roughly by 2.2 to get an approximate weight in pounds.

Speed, and cars that move well are about much more than mere horsepower. Torque, weight of the vehicle, how its balanced, and even where the power band is - make a difference. I'll speak only for my era of 3 series, its power band is around 5000 to 6000 rpms, very close to redline. Most people do not drive it near that and I consciously push myself to try that in gears 2 and above. I know some BMW owners that drive within the first 80% of the cars abilities and have remarkably low maintenance costs. I believe what's the point if I don't at least tickle the 90% range or so, so my maintenance costs are higher.

I will agree there is less room for screw ups in say BMWs and Porsches. They aren't engineered to be an every person's vehicle, they are designed for the driving enthusiast. To me its like jeans and dress pants, they are both pants, but hopefully you aren't going to garden or work on your vehicle in dress pants nor are you going to show up to a nice event in your everyday workhorse jeans. No one expects a Chevette to be able to perform like a Ford 150, not sure why so many people get confused when its BMWs, Audis, and MBs with Toyotas and Hondas.

blogs.youwheel.com/2014/04/14/engine-weight-a-comprehensive-list/

And notice how heavy that Bugatti engine is.

[Deleted]

I cannot even fathom spending that much on one car- the two cars DH and I drive didn't even cost that much together and they're very reliable with minimal maintenance costs. 

It's a huge commitment.  If your friend is borrowing the money to buy the car, what will the payments be?  Over how many years?  What will the insurance cost?  Those expenses are pretty much locked in. Unlike other expenses such as travel or having meals in fine restaurants, that expense can't be cut back in hard times unless you sell the car (and how many years will the loan be under water?).

Unless your friend is loaded, he's giving up a ton of other things to own this car.  Worth it to him?  I don't know.

[phil5185]

And notice how heavy that Bugatti engine is.

The Veyron features an 8.0-litre, quad-turbocharged, W16 cylinder engine, equivalent to two narrow-angle V8 engines bolted together. Each cylinder has four valves for a total of 64, but the VR8 configuration of each bank allows two overhead camshafts to drive two banks of cylinders so only four camshafts are needed. The engine is fed by four turbochargers and displaces 7,993 cubic centimetres (487.8 cu in), with a square 86 by 86 mm (3.39 by 3.39 in) bore and stroke.

It also has permanent all-wheel drive using the Haldex Traction system. It uses special Michelin PAX run-flat tyres, designed specifically to accommodate the Veyron's top speed, and cost US$25,000 per set.[19] The tyres can be mounted on the rims only in France, a service which costs US$70,000.[

3 heat exchangers for the air-to-liquid intercoolers.
3 engine radiators.
1 for the air conditioning system.

Wow!  Talk about over-designed! lol
The engine is mounted mid-ship, I guess you need to balance the load on all 4 wheels to haul that half-ton chunk of iron around.

One time, years ago, the US AF had the opportunity to check out a MIG Fighter up-close. Anxious to see what it was made of, why it could out-fly our Fighters. Turns out the thing was made of steel and was mostly engine and gas tank, the pilot sat on a bare saddle-like thing, metal levers. It had 2 or 3 gages, and the 'avionics' used vacuum tubes, no semi-conductors.  Sometimes brute power wins?

[Baby Fawkes]

The Veyron was never built as a car that would make a profit. It was built just because they could. Even selling for $2.2 million they didn't make a profit after all the design and engineering costs. They just built it to be the first road car > 1000 hp and to take the speed record for a road car at the time. 

I can't remember how many were ever made, but I believe it in the low hundreds

[The Captain]

We looked at appliances over the weekend.

Yea, I'm over the BMW.

[Opti]

Sept 1, 2015 8:22:10 GMT -5 The Captain said:

We looked at appliances over the weekend.

Yea, I'm over the BMW.

Awww. Maybe you will find some good appliance discount stores or good appliance discounts.

[TheHaitian]

Sept 1, 2015 8:22:10 GMT -5 The Captain said:

We looked at appliances over the weekend.

Yea, I'm over the BMW.

You can get both

[MJ2.0]

Sept 1, 2015 9:10:14 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Sept 1, 2015 8:22:10 GMT -5 The Captain said:

We looked at appliances over the weekend.

Yea, I'm over the BMW.

You can get both

Carl, stop trying to break YM!

[t-dog]

Right Carl is asking for his friend named Max "woof".

[TheHaitian]

8 Bit WWBG : I thought of you while reading this!

www.quora.com/How-does-it-feel-to-buy-a-Lamborghini-or-any-dream-car-from-your-own-salary


JUST GO FOR IT!!!

[TheHaitian]

Sept 1, 2015 13:09:56 GMT -5 t-dog said:

Right Carl is asking for his friend named Max "woof".

His name is Will

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"JUST GO FOR IT!!!":::...

I need to do this part first:

"So I worked hard on growing my marketing company I sold the shit out of web design packages, marketing, PPC, SEO, etc until I got our monthly run-rate up to the point where getting the car wasn't an issue."

[8 Bit WWBG]

Yeah, I definitely wonder how much of that car payment came from people opening that deceptively titled click bait.

[TheHaitian]

Sept 7, 2015 15:03:28 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

Yeah, I definitely wonder how much of that car payment came from people opening that deceptively titled click bait.

LOL!!!

We went car browsing while I was on vacation and the more I look... The more I am holding tight to my car for now.

We are already paying $479/month for my wife car, I really do not want to be paying over 1k/month in just car payments.

Car I am considering:
- Subaru Outback
- Honda CRV (really liked he Pilot/. but way too expensive)

And also tried:
- Kia Sorento
- BMW 3 series
- Toyota RAV4

But I make a quick calculations and again I pause... I think I am going to get my car detailed and drive it for awhile longer

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"DH got a 2007 3-series BMW with only 55,000 miles on it (or maybe 65,000 . . . it now has 75,000 three years later) for "only" $17,000 back in 2012.":::...

How has the maintenance been on that?  Did he also buy a warranty?  4 or 5 years old and most of the major depreciation has already taken place.  That is the series I'm looking for.

I've seen deals along those lines, and the cars will be available for a while, so I don't have to rush.  I just want to make sure when I do buy it, I get at least enough warranty years to take me through the loan.

[TheHaitian]

Sept 7, 2015 18:39:37 GMT -5 8 Bit WWBG said:

...:::"DH got a 2007 3-series BMW with only 55,000 miles on it (or maybe 65,000 . . . it now has 75,000 three years later) for "only" $17,000 back in 2012.":::...

How has the maintenance been on that?  Did he also buy a warranty?  4 or 5 years old and most of the major depreciation has already taken place.  That is the series I'm looking for.

I've seen deals along those lines, and the cars will be available for a while, so I don't have to rush.  I just want to make sure when I do buy it, I get at least enough warranty years to take me through the loan.

Seriously, just buy the car already

[8 Bit WWBG]

I'm just not where I really want to be before pulling the trigger.  I'm close... there will still be the models I want for the next couple of years, so I won't get stuck with an 8 year old junker that will cost me more in repairs than in payments.  I'll give you some numbers.

We make enough to comfortably support our joint expenses, and retirement is being maxed and money is being saved.  The remainder goes to individual spending.

We have separate finances, so some fluff is under "household" and other fluff is just my personal expenditures.  Both are ripe for cuts, but both are also fun and deeply ingrained.  Obviously they "could" be cut, and in a crisis situation, they absolutely WOULD be reduced or eliminated.  Some highlights from our joint and individual budgets, few of which are unique to my household:

Groceries: $700.  We eat really well, and pretty much get what we want, when we want it.  We buy $10 orange juice, and multiple varieties of fresh breads, and there is always butcher quality meat on hand.  I do want to reduce this, but I don't see it going below $500/mo, which would still have us pretty satisfied.  I'm more convinced lately this is a symptom of the level/quality of food we buy, vs. the quantity.  And that is because of line 2...

Eating out: $400.  This number is an aggregate of individual and joint, funded separately and jointly.  It is mostly from the work week -- either being too lazy to bring in lunch, or random dinners after work because I don't want to cook.  Yup... even with $500-$700 in groceries, we still spend almost that again feeding ourselves during the week.  But as I've said many times, time at home has more value and opportunity cost than time at work.  And I always have 20-30 minutes during work hours to "run out and grab something" but seldom make 20-30 minutes during home hours to pack something.

Memberships: $40.  These are billed annually, but I'm a member for a few entertainment venues and whatnot so I can get priority access or preferred seating.

Cell phones: $140.  Dual grandfathered unlimited data plans from the most expensive service provider (though, the one with the best coverage)

Streaming: $40.  Netflix, Hulu, Prime, SiriusXM...

Cleaning Service: $240.  I relented on this.  We each pay half.  It makes DW REALLY happy, and she'd sacrifice a lot before relinquishing this.

Parking and Tolls: $225.  Yay city living.  We don't "have" to drive to work, but we do have to GET to work.  We could reduce this number by using all public transportation, but quite frankly that would easily add anywhere from 35 to 50 minutes in each direction.

And then beyond these things, there are the onesie "on a whim" type of things.  Sure, let's go on a day trip.  Sure, let's replace fixtures.  Sure, new appliance.

I feel we are doing it mostly in the "YM approved - spend the leftovers" manner, because retirement is maxed, and there are household savings (in addition to my personal savings -- DW seldom saves).  I want to reduce some of these numbers, and I bet after doing so, we'd barely notice we were getting less.  In a crisis situation, these would be decimated if not eliminated to meet available income.

So yeah, it is "possible", but will take some re-prioritization.

[8 Bit WWBG]

Yeah, every time I write this stuff out, I feel simultaneously grateful and disgusted!

[8 Bit WWBG]

I thought about this one a bit more today.  I get how a performance car can (and probably should) have maintenance costs above a normal one.  What is mystifying though is when some of the other parts that shouldn't be an issue, break.  2 or 3 generations of BMW ago, there was a huge issue with the power windows.  I've heard stories from folks who owned the 2001-2006 model that stupid stuff like the glove box lock and all that has gone bad.  When one is paying above $30k for a car, there are things one expects should just never be an issue!

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Aug 28, 2015 13:03:09 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Does anyone here drives a BMW?
What do you drive?
How do you like it?
Maintenance?
Bought it used or new?

----> and I am just asking for a friend

I have a family member that had one once- He maintains that BMW stands for Bavarian Manure Wagon.  He says worst car he ever owned.  Besides, unless you're an asshole, you should probably avoid it.


www.wsj.com/video/bmw-drivers-really-are-jerks-studies-find/29285015-BB1A-4E41-B0C0-0A41CB990F60.html