swasat
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BMW
Aug 28, 2015 16:38:54 GMT -5
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Post by swasat on Aug 28, 2015 16:38:54 GMT -5
I drive 2013 BMW X5, bought new.
DH drives a 2010 BMW 528 I, bought new as well.
I LOVE the car!! No maintenance or expensive issues on either of the cars.
What specific thing do you wish to know??
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Happy prose
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BMW
Aug 28, 2015 16:44:37 GMT -5
Post by Happy prose on Aug 28, 2015 16:44:37 GMT -5
My friend had one, living in NJ. He was convinced that BMW stood for Break My Window.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Aug 28, 2015 17:47:17 GMT -5
I drive 2013 BMW X5, bought new. The one my friend is looking at is the 2016 BMW X 5.... He took it for a test drive yesterday and basically loved it! Really a smooth ride, drive nicely and big enough to be a family car, good trunk space, etc. The hang up is the price tag, we are looking at ~50k new... He wonders if the car is really worth it? Also the "repairs" costs that everyone keeps on talking about, how bad are they?
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tallguy
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BMW
Aug 28, 2015 19:05:54 GMT -5
mmhmm likes this
Post by tallguy on Aug 28, 2015 19:05:54 GMT -5
Damn! I've driven a Lexus for almost 14 years and I may not have spent "a few thousand" TOTAL!
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swasat
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BMW
Aug 28, 2015 19:47:53 GMT -5
Post by swasat on Aug 28, 2015 19:47:53 GMT -5
I drive 2013 BMW X5, bought new. The one my friend is looking at is the 2016 BMW X 5.... He took it for a test drive yesterday and basically loved it! Really a smooth ride, drive nicely and big enough to be a family car, good trunk space, etc. The hang up is the price tag, we are looking at ~50k new... He wonders if the car is really worth it? Also the "repairs" costs that everyone keeps on talking about, how bad are they? To ME its worth it, his MMV Also, I think $50K is low balling the price. IIRC, the starting price of X5 is around $55K. Then you add the package cost and any add ons, and it gets into the $60K+ range. It definitely has great trunk space, is a smooth riding machine and as I said before, no "repairs" cost so far. DH's BMW is about 5 years old now and no "expensive repairs" needed so far, just regular maintenance. His car has about 62K miles on it and mine has about 13K. We take the cars everywhere, on long trips, on mountain trips, on family trips with absolutely no issues. There is tons of space to fit in everything. The optional third row seating is really helpful as well and unlike Honda Pilot or other third row seat SUVs, the X5 third row does not feel cramped at all. IMO, even the luxury cars have come a LONG way in terms of machinery and technology. So the "expensive repairs" that everyone keeps talking about are no longer the "norm". I drove Lexus RX 350 for about 5 years before my current BMW and never had any maintenance or repairs issue with that either.
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tallguy
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BMW
Aug 28, 2015 19:58:49 GMT -5
Post by tallguy on Aug 28, 2015 19:58:49 GMT -5
Damn! I've driven a Lexus for almost 14 years and I may not have spent "a few thousand" TOTAL! A Lexus is just an expensive Toyota. And a BMW is just...expensive. I'm happy, especially considering that for just his repair costs I could have bought a couple more....
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8 Bit WWBG
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BMW
Aug 28, 2015 20:02:45 GMT -5
Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Aug 28, 2015 20:02:45 GMT -5
I want a 2007 - 2011 3-series. I'll certainly be buying an extended warranty. Sometimes I wonder about getting one of the previous generation (2002-2006) but not sure a 10 year old car is the way to go. Then again, with all the silly crap that is in cars now, sometimes I think older is the way to go. I love my smart key and touch screen... but I'd love it a lot less if it was always on the fritz.
From a friend who has owned 4 of BMWs, he said that two were light on maintenance, and two were ridiculously expensive.
As I've been warned many times, it is stupid stuff that goes wrong that you don't expect. I've heard stories of the glove compartment falling apart. It seriously makes you wonder how what is supposed to be a premium product can have so much nonsense.
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Opti
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BMW
Aug 28, 2015 20:09:32 GMT -5
Post by Opti on Aug 28, 2015 20:09:32 GMT -5
Gah. I remember that happening to me. I used my independent mechanic. Forget what it cost, but it was closer to $200, not near $500.
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Opti
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BMW
Aug 28, 2015 20:21:56 GMT -5
Post by Opti on Aug 28, 2015 20:21:56 GMT -5
Damn! I've driven a Lexus for almost 14 years and I may not have spent "a few thousand" TOTAL! A Lexus is just an expensive Toyota. And not a performance car made for the track and driving enthusiasts.
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Works4me
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Someone responded to your personal ad - a German Shepherd named Tara wants to have you for dinner...
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Post by Works4me on Aug 28, 2015 20:47:31 GMT -5
Carl - BMW's are nice and fun ... and have a lot more room for your present and future family. Although I must admit I love the mental picture in my mind of you, DW, MIL, and Mac in the Mini Cooper without baby in a car seat and even minimal baby supplies.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Aug 28, 2015 20:49:09 GMT -5
Damn you, now I'm looking again...
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 28, 2015 20:55:18 GMT -5
For that money you could get a car that's actually cool... Like a cherry red '78 GTO... Or even a Barbie pink Challenger!
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milee
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BMW
Aug 28, 2015 21:40:31 GMT -5
Post by milee on Aug 28, 2015 21:40:31 GMT -5
I drive 2013 BMW X5, bought new. The one my friend is looking at is the 2016 BMW X 5.... He took it for a test drive yesterday and basically loved it! Really a smooth ride, drive nicely and big enough to be a family car, good trunk space, etc. The hang up is the price tag, we are looking at ~50k new... He wonders if the car is really worth it? Also the "repairs" costs that everyone keeps on talking about, how bad are they?
If he can get a 2016 X5 for $50k, he should go for it. Or maybe buy and resell it for a profit. Tough to imagine how he'll get one for $50k unless it's so stripped down that it doesn't have a steering wheel....
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Deleted
Joined: Sept 29, 2024 22:32:28 GMT -5
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BMW
Aug 28, 2015 21:59:24 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 21:59:24 GMT -5
The one my friend is looking at is the 2016 BMW X 5.... He took it for a test drive yesterday and basically loved it! Really a smooth ride, drive nicely and big enough to be a family car, good trunk space, etc. The hang up is the price tag, we are looking at ~50k new... He wonders if the car is really worth it? Also the "repairs" costs that everyone keeps on talking about, how bad are they?
If he can get a 2016 for $50k, he should go for it. Or maybe buy and resell it for a profit. Tough to imagine how he'll get one for $50k unless it's so stripped down that it doesn't have a steering wheel....
This is just an example. There's nothing specific about this car at all.
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milee
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Post by milee on Aug 29, 2015 6:43:19 GMT -5
MPL - That is an X3, not an X5.
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Deleted
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BMW
Aug 29, 2015 8:20:59 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2015 8:20:59 GMT -5
MPL - That is an X3, not an X5. Yeah Carl....that's an X3 not an X5.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2015 9:01:05 GMT -5
Dang, we got a lot of high rollers on the message board!
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Aug 29, 2015 9:55:50 GMT -5
MPL - That is an X3, not an X5. Yeah Carl....that's an X3 not an X5. Thanks for calling me out
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8 Bit WWBG
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Aug 29, 2015 12:14:41 GMT -5
Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Aug 29, 2015 12:14:41 GMT -5
I see a 2009 328i with around 63K miles for $18,000. It doesn't have the nav, but it has some of the other options. God damn, I really want this car.
It is completely impractical, and will jeopardize my ability to grow wealth.
I want it anyway.
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buster
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BMW
Aug 29, 2015 12:21:50 GMT -5
milee likes this
Post by buster on Aug 29, 2015 12:21:50 GMT -5
I see a 2009 328i with around 63K miles for $18,000. It doesn't have the nav, but it has some of the other options. God damn, I really want this car. It is completely impractical, and will jeopardize my ability to grow wealth. I want it anyway. With Waze or Google Maps on your smartphone, you don't really need built-in Nav. Unless BMW is pushing new updates (I have idea if they do), the Nav from 2009 would be pretty dated by today's standards. Basically, where I'm going with this is don't let one option make or break your decision. Now on the growing wealth front, no doubt you should ensure you're hitting your goals before splurging on a depreciating asset. I would also ensure that you get a couple of years of extended warranty if at all possible buy a 6 year old vehicle.
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buster
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Aug 29, 2015 12:27:18 GMT -5
Post by buster on Aug 29, 2015 12:27:18 GMT -5
Gah. I remember that happening to me. I used my independent mechanic. Forget what it cost, but it was closer to $200, not near $500. I really need to find a good independent mechanic to handle the work I don't want to do myself. I was quoted $800 to replace the valve cover as it has a small oil leak - of course I know the dealer really mean that they're going to replace the valve cover gaskets and charge me 3 hours of labor at an inflated rate for a 45 minute job. Book hours vs. actual hours is one of the biggest auto labor scams in the business.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Aug 29, 2015 12:33:57 GMT -5
Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Aug 29, 2015 12:33:57 GMT -5
Yeah, I wouldn't use the navigation. I use my phone for navigation anyway. But the screen interface is a little more interesting to use than the spartan console. I am not sure whether or not I can get satellite radio without that option -- I think I can, but it is hard to tell.
As far as meeting goals... I have been maxing my retirement for a while. We save money as a household. We'd have to re-balance a few things, and I'd have to stop being as liberal and free with some of my spending, but it could be done. Not sure I'd find a better price either. At that level, they seem to hold their value pretty steadily. And yes, I will be buying an extended warranty with the smallest deductible possible.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Aug 29, 2015 14:01:32 GMT -5
Yeah, I wouldn't use the navigation. I use my phone for navigation anyway. But the screen interface is a little more interesting to use than the spartan console. I am not sure whether or not I can get satellite radio without that option -- I think I can, but it is hard to tell. As far as meeting goals... I have been maxing my retirement for a while. We save money as a household. We'd have to re-balance a few things, and I'd have to stop being as liberal and free with some of my spending, but it could be done. Not sure I'd find a better price either. At that level, they seem to hold their value pretty steadily. And yes, I will be buying an extended warranty with the smallest deductible possible. BUY IT! BUY IT! BUY IT!!!!! You know you want too....
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Deleted
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BMW
Aug 29, 2015 14:31:51 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2015 14:31:51 GMT -5
Yeah Carl....that's an X3 not an X5. Thanks for calling me out It's for your own good.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Aug 29, 2015 14:35:51 GMT -5
Thanks for calling me out It's for your own good. I am asking for a "friend".... Not me
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8 Bit WWBG
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Aug 29, 2015 14:47:29 GMT -5
Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Aug 29, 2015 14:47:29 GMT -5
...:::"BUY IT! BUY IT! BUY IT!!!!! You know you want too....":::... I've already reached out to the dealer. Now I'm reviewing our monthly expenses. We can do it, but I need to take a breath for a moment. At the very least, I need to live like I have the payment (both in terms of insurance and the car payment itself). I probably won't go through with it, as it is out of state and is missing some of the options I might want to have -- I could live with out them, but if I'm going to do this, I want to be really happy with it. Did I mention I'm not pleased with you?
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Aug 29, 2015 16:00:51 GMT -5
It is in the multi-$1000s/yr over a 200k mile life. It has to do with 'design margin'. You can get 400 hp out of a 500 lb heavy duty V8 at 4500 rpm. Or you can get 400 hp out of a super charged 150 lb engine at 9000 rpm.
A performance car needs a light weight engine - plus light weight parts thru-out the car, to get optimal speeds from 400hp. The big V8 will likely provide 400hp to a 50,000 pound truck for 250,000 miles. Conversely, A tiny 400 hp Indy car engine is expected to run for 500 miles plus a little bit more.
The failure tree of a truck might be a .999 part bolted to a .999 part using a .999 bolt. Ie, a .997 probability of success. The Indy car might have a lightened .85 part bolt to a .85 part with a smaller .85 bolt - ie, a .61 chance of success. So you can complete the Indy-500 61% of the time.
The performance cars - BMW, Mercedes, Passat, Audi, yada, are designed to operate much closer to the design limits that a Toyota. And a bunch of failure-avoidance sensors need to be checked/adjusted regularly (thus the $1000 'tune-ups). Eg - an engine is more powerful at closer to 230F. But if it goes a bit above, the coolant boils away quickly - so you need a very sophisticated warning device. Or the 9000 rpm - centrifugal force goes up with rpm squared. So you need a sensor that shuts the engine down if you edge above 9000 - and that needs 'tuning'. And so on, thru-out the 1000+ parts of the car design.
The daily drivers - Toyota Honda, Ford, etc. are designed to have a BIG design margin - you can skip oil changes (not rec'd), over rev the engine (not rec'd), ignore the 5000 mile tune-ups (I've never had one in 200,000 miles).
Add to that the economy of scale. BMW makes 2M cars a year, Totota makes 10M a year. That means that toyota does an extra pilot run to catch little things ahead of full production - broken glove box door, door hinges, heater blower switches, power window switches, yada.
BTW, when you buy a car, select the most common production option, the thing that they make 10M times a yr. Anecdote: In the 1950s most cars had window cranks and buyers were afraid to order PW cuz they broke a lot. By 1980, nearly all cars had PWs - and if you ordered a car with window cranks, they wore out, turned very hard, then the little plastic knobs broke. Meanwhile the folks who ordered the now "normal" PWs had no troubles (don't ask how I know this).
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8 Bit WWBG
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Aug 29, 2015 17:54:15 GMT -5
Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Aug 29, 2015 17:54:15 GMT -5
That is a great post Phil, full of useful information.
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Deleted
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Aug 29, 2015 17:57:49 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2015 17:57:49 GMT -5
It is in the multi-$1000s/yr over a 200k mile life. It has to do with 'design margin'. You can get 400 hp out of a 500 lb heavy duty V8 at 4500 rpm. Or you can get 400 hp out of a super charged 150 lb engine at 9000 rpm. A performance car needs a light weight engine - plus light weight parts thru-out the car, to get optimal speeds from 400hp. The big V8 will likely provide 400hp to a 50,000 pound truck for 250,000 miles. Conversely, A tiny 400 hp Indy car engine is expected to run for 500 miles plus a little bit more. The failure tree of a truck might be a .999 part bolted to a .999 part using a .999 bolt. Ie, a .997 probability of success. The Indy car might have a lightened .85 part bolt to a .85 part with a smaller .85 bolt - ie, a .61 chance of success. So you can complete the Indy-500 61% of the time. The performance cars - BMW, Mercedes, Passat, Audi, yada, are designed to operate much closer to the design limits that a Toyota. And a bunch of failure-avoidance sensors need to be checked/adjusted regularly (thus the $1000 'tune-ups). Eg - an engine is more powerful at closer to 230F. But if it goes a bit above, the coolant boils away quickly - so you need a very sophisticated warning device. Or the 9000 rpm - centrifugal force goes up with rpm squared. So you need a sensor that shuts the engine down if you edge above 9000 - and that needs 'tuning'. And so on, thru-out the 1000+ parts of the car design. The daily drivers - Toyota Honda, Ford, etc. are designed to have a BIG design margin - you can skip oil changes (not rec'd), over rev the engine (not rec'd), ignore the 5000 mile tune-ups (I've never had one in 200,000 miles). Add to that the economy of scale. BMW makes 2M cars a year, Totota makes 10M a year. That means that toyota does an extra pilot run to catch little things ahead of full production - broken glove box door, door hinges, heater blower switches, power window switches, yada. BTW, when you buy a car, select the most common production option, the thing that they make 10M times a yr. Anecdote: In the 1950s most cars had window cranks and buyers were afraid to order PW cuz they broke a lot. By 1980, nearly all cars had PWs - and if you ordered a car with window cranks, they wore out, turned very hard, then the little plastic knobs broke. Meanwhile the folks who ordered the now "normal" PWs had no troubles (don't ask how I know this). I had a BMW, 3-series, bought new owned 8 years. It was more expensive than an economy car, but not the terrible everyone said. Of course it was the high production model like Phil mentions at the "end" of the design cycle (3rd to last year before redesign of a 7 year run). The expense was for items that were not really "failures". It came with great summer only performance tires, they only lasted ~18K miles. Performed wonderful, but that was their rated life. Of course they were expensive. Some items were actually cheaper. Oil changes were $90/change but you only needed 1 per year or 15K miles. So compared with the GM I had, that required 4 per year or 3K miles, it was cheaper for me (only had to take the car in 1 time per year). Most of the maintenance was designed that way, if you did the plans, you took it in 1 time per year and that was it. Other things lasted longer, but a failure was hard to fix and more expensive. But that is because you have few units on the road and minimal 3rd party replacement parts (these are actually more expensive as they are high performance mod's). I would avoid any 1st or 2nd year production model from BMW and stick to their top sales volume models. Actually this is even true if you go to the great Asian cars. Acura made a CL model in the late 90s, it was not just a luxury Accord, but had different engine, transmission, etc. They didn't last like the Honda's and consumer reports rated them low after ~6 years. The TSX that replaced it in early 2000s was just a luxury Accord (same engine/transmission different software) and guess what, it was a great car with the same reliability of an Accord.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Aug 29, 2015 19:33:16 GMT -5
Did I mention I'm not pleased with you? Come on, you know you really want it! You paid off your credit card, maxing out your retirement account , saving/building wealth .... You've earned it JUST DO IT!!!
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