Beggars

[Deleted]

We don't get many where I live, so whenever I do see one it kind of sticks with me and bothers me.  Yesterday when I was in town I noticed a man with a sign saying to please help.  They had two children and he was out of work.   And he actually HAD the two children (maybe 6 and 8) and a woman sitting out there with him.  Now, it has been ungodly hot here the past few days.  Yesterday it had to be in the 90's with 70% humidity.  Really awful.  My first reaction when I saw this guy with his kids sitting out in the median of the highway wasn't pity, but anger.  WTH does that to their kids??  Is begging really that lucrative?  I just can't see where anyone would really have to do that in this country with all the social services available.  Plus, the town I'm in has an abundance of entry level factory jobs, anyone that wants to work here can.  They might not make a lot, but they won't be begging on the highway.

I don't know.  I tend to be out of touch with a lot of things, but to me it just seemed like a bad way to deal with the problem and I didn't give them any money (I don't ever carry cash anyhow).  Do people really depend on panhandling or were they probably just looking for some extra beer money on a hot Saturday afternoon? 

[Phoenix84]

Most likely the latter.

The advice from homeless shelters seems to be donate to the homeless shelter and not the panhandlers. I've seen other investigative reports stating panhandlers average about 50 thousand dollars a year.

I agree with you, between the social services and job opportunities in this country, I don't see how anyone can beg either.

[Tennesseer]

If the kids are actually his and hers, then they have no business hanging around a small town (?) and away from larger city services that would provide food and shelter for the children.  

The children are the bait to get people to donate.  

[Spellbound454]

Most of our beggars tend to be druggies..... desperate for their next fix.

I certainly don't approve of them buying drugs but I give the money because they're desperate.

Society has a big problem...and I can't fix it with the loose coins in my pocket

but just maybe they'll get a better tomorrow.

[andi9899]

Does it make me a horrible person that last time some guy walked up to me asking for money I pretended not to speak English?

[cronewitch]

I hate them using children to beg like Jehovah's Witnesses using their children. I have a friend who was used by JW, her adoptive parents adopted her to use and made her drop out of high school when she had enough education for a girl. They haven't spoken to her in 40 years because she wouldn't join the cult.

[Deleted]

Aug 16, 2015 16:40:37 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

If the kids are actually his and hers, then they have no business hanging around a small town (?) and away from larger city services that would provide food and shelter for the children.  

The children are the bait to get people to donate.  

 
Our town is small, but not tiny (about 26K).  While we don't have a huge homeless problem, I know it has shelters and emergency care services.  For sure the kids would qualify for all kinds of help and shouldn't have to be sitting in a ditch at high noon on one of the hottest days of the year.  I don't know.  That really bugged me.

[emma1420]

I see them occasionally in my city.  When I was younger, I stopped for the ones that said they had no food, and I offered to take them to the grocery store (or they could give me s list) and purchase food for them for the next week.  Not one person ever took me up on that offer.  I am happy to help people who need help.  I don't want anyone to go hungry, but I will not give panhandlers cash.

[The Captain]

I work downtown Chicago. While I try not to lose empathy I've seen too much to give cash anymore.

The ones with kids (or a dog, there are some that like to use that prop as well) are just trying to tug at your heart strings.

I've said this before, I would scrub toilets and floors before I'd ever let DD go hungry.  What kind of parent would put their kids through that?

 

[cael]

When we were in Greece, we had a long wait at Piraeus (the main port in Athens) before getting our rental car - couldn't find the rental place, then SIL locked the keys in the car and we had to run back to them for help Anyway, we had a long time sitting at one of the terminals. There weren't tons of people around but people came and went, and this guy begging was hanging around. He was moaning and lurching around with a cup of change, fell down a few times, looked really f-ed up. Leaned in real close to everyone moaning and crying for money, almost falling on you. Just had to literally ignore that he was there. Then someone gave him a can of Coke, and he walked away perfectly normally. The gypsies who beg all over Athens (and elsewhere) use their kids to beg, it's sad.

[Deleted]

Aug 16, 2015 18:30:16 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

On a different note, I hate, hate, hate the various groups of children who are outside of Walmart, begging for whatever activity they are involved in.  What happened to parents paying for their kids' activities?  What happened to selling stuff or washing cars?  When did it become ok just to beg total strangers to contribute.

It must be lucrative, though.  There's a different group every weekend.  Again, I never have money, though.

Wow.  I've never seen that.  Is it actually put on by the organization or is it just begging kids?  Around here the boy/girl scouts will sell things outside of stores, but never just stand and ask for money. 

[whoami]

Aug 16, 2015 17:41:50 GMT -5 cael said:

When we were in Greece, we had a long wait at Piraeus (the main port in Athens) before getting our rental car - couldn't find the rental place, then SIL locked the keys in the car and we had to run back to them for help Anyway, we had a long time sitting at one of the terminals. There weren't tons of people around but people came and went, and this guy begging was hanging around. He was moaning and lurching around with a cup of change, fell down a few times, looked really f-ed up. Leaned in real close to everyone moaning and crying for money, almost falling on you. Just had to literally ignore that he was there. Then someone gave him a can of Coke, and he walked away perfectly normally. The gypsies who beg all over Athens (and elsewhere) use their kids to beg, it's sad.

 I dont rememeber seeing this in Greece, but it was very common in Italy. Mainly very old women practically laying on the ground all hunched over with a cup just outside church tourist spots.....and then of course the super aggressive imported from Africa street hustlers selling roses, Prada and whatever other crap.  I think they are the same ones who send out the emails that say your got $20B in a Swiss account...just send them $500 to get the account number. 

[whoami]

Aug 16, 2015 18:30:16 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

I see them in the Walmart parking lot and sometimes at a grocery store. The story is always the same--I need gas money to get to wherever. The kids are there, too.

 

 Ive seen these people at multiple Walmarts....amazing how they always seem to run out of gas in the parking lot there.  

Ive also been accosted by people wanting a donation for some drug rehab house. I dont make donations to anyone roving parking lots. Management must have finally done something about the parking lot beggers because I havent been bothered lately but for a few weeks, it had gotten ridiculous. 

[cael]

Aug 16, 2015 18:39:14 GMT -5 whoami said:

Aug 16, 2015 17:41:50 GMT -5 cael said:

When we were in Greece, we had a long wait at Piraeus (the main port in Athens) before getting our rental car - couldn't find the rental place, then SIL locked the keys in the car and we had to run back to them for help Anyway, we had a long time sitting at one of the terminals. There weren't tons of people around but people came and went, and this guy begging was hanging around. He was moaning and lurching around with a cup of change, fell down a few times, looked really f-ed up. Leaned in real close to everyone moaning and crying for money, almost falling on you. Just had to literally ignore that he was there. Then someone gave him a can of Coke, and he walked away perfectly normally. The gypsies who beg all over Athens (and elsewhere) use their kids to beg, it's sad.

 I dont rememeber seeing this in Greece, but it was very common in Italy. Mainly very old women practically laying on the ground all hunched over with a cup just outside church tourist spots.....and then of course the super aggressive imported from Africa street hustlers selling roses, Prada and whatever other crap.

Yes! We did see that, except the one who got us was Jamaican lol! This guy in Plaka pushed his bracelets onto us ("this one for free" then put one on the rest of us) and then told us 5E each. We saw it coming a mile away but didn't resist like we should have lol, we just laughed and now it's a good story

[whoami]

Aug 16, 2015 18:46:44 GMT -5 cael said:

Aug 16, 2015 18:39:14 GMT -5 whoami said:

 I dont rememeber seeing this in Greece, but it was very common in Italy. Mainly very old women practically laying on the ground all hunched over with a cup just outside church tourist spots.....and then of course the super aggressive imported from Africa street hustlers selling roses, Prada and whatever other crap.

Yes! We did see that, except the one who got us was Jamaican lol! This guy in Plaka pushed his bracelets onto us ("this one for free" then put one on the rest of us) and then told us 5E each. We saw it coming a mile away but didn't resist like we should have lol, we just laughed and now it's a good story

I cant tell you how many roses I had shoved under my face.....the purse guys all split when the cops rolled around. It was amazing to see how fast they could gather their junk and take off running. 

[TheOtherMe]

When I worked in downtown Denver, I saw so much that I stopped seeing.  I never gave them any money.  I did and do make donations to homeless shelters. 

I do know that since things have changed the way the US treats the mentally ill, many of the homeless are mentally ill.  They will be on the streets until/when the US changes the way it treats the mentally ill.  They need medical help, not just a place to sleep. 

I used to have a bus driver who had been homeless.  He said there were too many drugged out people in the shelters at night and he preferred sleeping on the streets. 

I never quite understood how the people begging for money had smart phones either.

[sesfw]

When we were in Salzburg in June we saw a lot of people with cups in their hands for change. Our tour guide said that groups of people would come from Romania to beg for a couple of weeks then move on to another city. They would be replaced by another group. It's a business and each evening they would turn over the money collected to a 'pimp' (for want of a better word), get their evening meal and a bed to sleep in.

We were told to give them food but no money.  And we saw quite a few with a lot of food around them.

I give to our church, local food bank, and help at a shelter in downtown Phx.  Every couple of years the local newspaper does an article on the street homeless and they make a bundle, tax free.

[Deleted]

Aug 16, 2015 19:04:26 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

Aug 16, 2015 18:38:00 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Wow.  I've never seen that.  Is it actually put on by the organization or is it just begging kids?  Around here the boy/girl scouts will sell things outside of stores, but never just stand and ask for money. 

I guess it is put on by the organizations.  It's the usual cheerleaders, dance team, youth sports teams, choirs, band, church youth groups, and so on.  There is always someone outside our local Walmart with a bucket in hand.

I think it is the wrong message to send to kids.  You don't have to earn the money; just ask random, total strangers for it.  Oh, wait, that is sort of like GoFundMe, right?

I agree.  I wouldn't let my kids take part in a begging day at Walmart.   If the organization pushed it we'd be looking for a different activity. 

[emma1420]

Aug 16, 2015 19:04:26 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

Aug 16, 2015 18:38:00 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Wow.  I've never seen that.  Is it actually put on by the organization or is it just begging kids?  Around here the boy/girl scouts will sell things outside of stores, but never just stand and ask for money. 

I guess it is put on by the organizations.  It's the usual cheerleaders, dance team, youth sports teams, choirs, band, church youth groups, and so on.  There is always someone outside our local Walmart with a bucket in hand.

I think it is the wrong message to send to kids.  You don't have to earn the money; just ask random, total strangers for it.  Oh, wait, that is sort of like GoFundMe, right?

I can't stand that either.  Typically around here it's the Girl Scouts or Boy Scouts.  Although it's also a lot of school groups.  To be fair the Girl Scouts are usually selling cookies, but it still drives me batty.  

[Lizard Queen]

There never used to be any in my town, but they're regularly on the street corner (usually the same guy), and near the street entrance to the grocery store parking lots quite often too. It's annoying and sad at the same time. Some probably are legitimate, but who knows which ones?

The gypsies in Europe are just plain annoying.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Once, in maybe a weak moment, I gave money to a young couple with 2 kids at an intersection. They looked well clothed but scared. I told him to take them across the street and get them some food.

In college I had a guy beg for money. After I gave him some of my poor college cash he walked into a bar.

I remember a local tv station followed a beggar at the end of the day. He walked to a nice car and drove to his home in a nice neighborhood.

[milee]

Aug 16, 2015 18:55:40 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

I do know that since things have changed the way the US treats the mentally ill, many of the homeless are mentally ill.  They will be on the streets until/when the US changes the way it treats the mentally ill.  They need medical help, not just a place to sleep. 

I used to have a bus driver who had been homeless.  He said there were too many drugged out people in the shelters at night and he preferred sleeping on the streets. 

Agree. Most of the chronic homeless are mentally ill, substance abusers or both (not unexpected since people with mental health issues often self-medicate.) 

The tough thing is how to balance what most people in general society think is a good idea versus what the mentally ill people want for themselves. In some ways the change in how mentally ill people are treated was tragic for society - we now have to look at all these "crazy", "stinking", "ranting", "weirdos" in the park and public areas. As a mom, I don't want to deal with that, I worry about how to protect my kids from that and I also want to help the "crazies" with food, shelter, a shower and medical care.

But... and I'm not sure I can explain it well, but as a person who has a fair amount of mental illness in her family and who has always known that it could pop up in myself or my kids, I also think about what I would want if I were one of the crazy, stinking, ranting weirdos. Because it could happen. Independence is very important to me. Very. And that sometimes means that I do things that other people don't understand and wouldn't choose for me. I suspect that I'd rather be free to be a crazy, stinking, ranting weirdo in the park than a clean, quiet, well fed person in a mental hospital.  That's the main reason why when DH and I prepared all our wills, healthcare directives, etc, I refused to sign any paperwork about mental health power of attorney. I understand that he or people who love me would want me to be "cared for" but I also understand I would hate being "cared for" more than I would hate being a homeless crazy person. So... In other words, dealing with all the crazies in public is tough for those of us who aren't (currently) crazy, but it may not be as unkind to the crazies themselves as forcing them into mental institutions would be.

[Deleted]

Aug 16, 2015 19:48:03 GMT -5 emma1420 said:

Aug 16, 2015 19:04:26 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

I guess it is put on by the organizations.  It's the usual cheerleaders, dance team, youth sports teams, choirs, band, church youth groups, and so on.  There is always someone outside our local Walmart with a bucket in hand.

I think it is the wrong message to send to kids.  You don't have to earn the money; just ask random, total strangers for it.  Oh, wait, that is sort of like GoFundMe, right?

I can't stand that either.  Typically around here it's the Girl Scouts or Boy Scouts.  Although it's also a lot of school groups.  To be fair the Girl Scouts are usually selling cookies, but it still drives me batty.  

The Boy Scouts are just standing there asking for money?  That seems totally bizarre to me.  I don't think our Council would approve of that at all if they heard it was going on.  My son does a ton of fund raisers, but they're either sales or things like Chicken-Q's, fish frys, dog washes etc.  Never just asking people for handouts. 

[movingforward]

We have panhandling on just about every corner where I live.  I have also seen them switching off (like a shift change).  The REAL homeless people are mostly downtown and you can tell they are mentally ill.  I feel extremely bad for them. They don't really ask for money.  They are just sleeping on park benches and digging through the trash.  

[MJ2.0]

Aug 16, 2015 18:30:16 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

On a different note, I hate, hate, hate the various groups of children who are outside of Walmart, begging for whatever activity they are involved in.  What happened to parents paying for their kids' activities?  What happened to selling stuff or washing cars?  When did it become ok just to beg total strangers to contribute.

OMG, THANK YOU!!!  I freaking hate this!  How hard is it to slap together a spaghetti dinner or get those boxes of candy to sell?

[milee]

Aug 16, 2015 21:34:13 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

Aug 16, 2015 20:13:49 GMT -5 milee said:

Agree. Most of the chronic homeless are mentally ill, substance abusers or both (not unexpected since people with mental health issues often self-medicate.) 

The tough thing is how to balance what most people in general society think is a good idea versus what the mentally ill people want for themselves. In some ways the change in how mentally ill people are treated was tragic for society - we now have to look at all these "crazy", "stinking", "ranting", "weirdos" in the park and public areas. As a mom, I don't want to deal with that, I worry about how to protect my kids from that and I also want to help the "crazies" with food, shelter, a shower and medical care.

But... and I'm not sure I can explain it well, but as a person who has a fair amount of mental illness in her family and who has always known that it could pop up in myself or my kids, I also think about what I would want if I were one of the crazy, stinking, ranting weirdos. Because it could happen. Independence is very important to me. Very. And that sometimes means that I do things that other people don't understand and wouldn't choose for me. I suspect that I'd rather be free to be a crazy, stinking, ranting weirdo in the park than a clean, quiet, well fed person in a mental hospital.  That's the main reason why when DH and I prepared all our wills, healthcare directives, etc, I refused to sign any paperwork about mental health power of attorney. I understand that he or people who love me would want me to be "cared for" but I also understand I would hate being "cared for" more than I would hate being a homeless crazy person. So... In other words, dealing with all the crazies in public is tough for those of us who aren't (currently) crazy, but it may not be as unkind to the crazies themselves as forcing them into mental institutions would be.

I actually agree with you, Milee.  To cite a different example, my aunt lived to be over 100. At age 95, she was still living alone with some dementia issues.  She might have been "safer" in a nursing home, but she wouldn't have been happier.

"I know what you're afraid of.  It's not pain or solitude.  It's indignity you can't stand, ..., you're like a cat that way." -T.H.

Being in your own home or even on the street may be painful or lonely, but you get to keep your dignity.  There is no dignity in mental health institutions or in nursing homes, IMHO.  

[NastyWoman]

Aug 16, 2015 20:13:49 GMT -5 milee said:

Aug 16, 2015 18:55:40 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

I do know that since things have changed the way the US treats the mentally ill, many of the homeless are mentally ill.  They will be on the streets until/when the US changes the way it treats the mentally ill.  They need medical help, not just a place to sleep. 

I used to have a bus driver who had been homeless.  He said there were too many drugged out people in the shelters at night and he preferred sleeping on the streets. 

Agree. Most of the chronic homeless are mentally ill, substance abusers or both (not unexpected since people with mental health issues often self-medicate.) 

The tough thing is how to balance what most people in general society think is a good idea versus what the mentally ill people want for themselves. In some ways the change in how mentally ill people are treated was tragic for society - we now have to look at all these "crazy", "stinking", "ranting", "weirdos" in the park and public areas. As a mom, I don't want to deal with that, I worry about how to protect my kids from that and I also want to help the "crazies" with food, shelter, a shower and medical care.

But... and I'm not sure I can explain it well, but as a person who has a fair amount of mental illness in her family and who has always known that it could pop up in myself or my kids, I also think about what I would want if I were one of the crazy, stinking, ranting weirdos. Because it could happen. Independence is very important to me. Very. And that sometimes means that I do things that other people don't understand and wouldn't choose for me. I suspect that I'd rather be free to be a crazy, stinking, ranting weirdo in the park than a clean, quiet, well fed person in a mental hospital.  That's the main reason why when DH and I prepared all our wills, healthcare directives, etc, I refused to sign any paperwork about mental health power of attorney. I understand that he or people who love me would want me to be "cared for" but I also understand I would hate being "cared for" more than I would hate being a homeless crazy person. So... In other words, dealing with all the crazies in public is tough for those of us who aren't (currently) crazy, but it may not be as unkind to the crazies themselves as forcing them into mental institutions would be.

And this is why I love these boards: someone showing me the " other side" . Thank you milee for sharing this POV

[resolution]

Yesterday when we were pulling out of a parking lot in our truck, a woman came to my window and asked if we knew if it was legal for a person to ride in the back of a truck. We both said we could answer for our home states but we had no clue about MD; and she said she had been planning to ask us for a ride to Labor Ready, but since we didn't know much about the area she felt we would probably get lost and that she would walk. It occurred to me that I could offer her some money for a taxi, but by then she had walked off and I wasn't sure if she really had needed a  ride or was looking for some money.

Situations like that make me uneasy. In some ways I prefer someone to just flat ask for money and I can make a decision, rather than sitting there trying to figure out what they are after. Legal or not, there is no way I'd take the liability of someone in the back of our truck but I might spring for a taxi to get someone to the day labor place.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Aug 16, 2015 21:40:45 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

Aug 16, 2015 21:35:10 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

OMG, THANK YOU!!!  I freaking hate this!  How hard is it to slap together a spaghetti dinner or get those boxes of candy to sell?

Yes, yes, yes!  Even if the only people who bought tickets to the spaghetti dinner or bought the doughnuts were their grandparents, the kids still learned that money was tied to a product of some sort.  Free money available if you only ask is a bad lesson for kids to learn.

So if a dance group (or music or cheerleading) is out doing dances/singing/using their skills to show off and try to raise money, that's begging?  If they're just sititng around, yes.  But if they're performing, I don't think of it as begging. 

[zibazinski]

When there used to be Blockbuster, they constantly had groups begging for money. They actually were insulted along with their precious parents when I said I'd be happy to donate if they washed my car. I work hard for my money, why shouldn't they?
i stopped shopping at Kmart too because of the constant begging. Told the manager why and he said he could do nothing about it.
Theres a lot of good organizations here that help the homeless and including those who just need a few hundred bucks for something, like new tires and just don't have it. So I give nothing to the street corner people because I know they're scamming. They're always able bodied and there's always signs everywhere hiring. What really pisses me off is the "homeless vets" signs. There should be a law against impersonating a military person.