Considering Becoming a 1 Car Family - NEW Car (long)

[shanendoah]

C and I were a one car family from 2000-2006. We bought the VW Sedan in 2006, after a semester of me being in evening classes 30 miles south, while he worked 15 miles north. The time he had to leave work on the two nights I had class to get the car to me in time for me to make it to class was becoming problematic. 
We went back to being a one car family for about 18 months 2010-2012 when we were still struggling a bit with finances. We kept the second car, but basically insured it only for "storage" and it sat in it's out of the way parking space and did nothing. When we bought the VW Wagon in 2012, we went back to actively being a 2 car family again and have stayed there.

Now that we're in the new house, I have a quick and easy bus commute to work, one that will be preferable to driving even in bad weather. The new house is also walking distance from the elementary, middle, and high schools Pop Tart will be attending. C is done with school. So, it looks like it would be an ideal time to go back to being a single car family.

Obviously, the "best" thing to do, financially, would simply be to sell one of the paid for cars we have and keep driving the other. 
The problem here is deciding which car we would keep.

The Sedan is a 2006, 110k miles on it, heated seats (we both have back problems, these make driving any distance SOOO much better) and lots of bells and whistles. It's the car we bought new and know everything about. But it's a Sedan, which means there is no dog space that isn't also kid space, and isn't great for hauling larger items.
The Wagon is a 2003, 190k miles on it. Base model, no heated seats, no bells, no whistles. But, it's a wagon, so good for moving big things around, and there can be separate kid and dog space.

Both vehicles are diesel. We had been running B99 in them, but in the new neighborhood, there is no convenient B99. Best we can do is B20, and we have to go a bit out of our way for that.
The engines themselves will almost certainly make it past 300k miles. But other things are starting to be issues. Since November, we have probably spent over $5k on work on the Sedan. The Wagon not as much - but we've driven it only 15k miles since we bought it, when all sorts of work had been done. It is in the shop right now for $500+ repairs on the shocks/alignment system.

I'd had a vague idea of trading them both in and getting something new before, but yesterday, with the Wagon in for repairs, C called me to look up an error he was getting on the Sedan. Luckily, adding brake fluid fixed it, but it could also have been a problem with the ABS (breaks). And that kind of pushed me over the edge in thinking about a new car.

We both love all the new electric vehicles (EVs). We had a Leaf as a rental once and really liked it. But right now, the pure electrics (that aren't Teslas) have ranges topping out at 100 miles between charges (and most are closer to 80 miles). That makes them a great commuter vehicle, but we don't need a commuter vehicle as C doesn't commute, and I take the bus. We do need a car that will get us from Seattle to Portland on a somewhat regular basis (and sometimes at the last minute, meaning renting something for those trips isn't always a good option), and likely to MT this coming April.
There are also a couple companies with fuel cell vehicles on the roads, but those aren't available in the Seattle market, yet.

This lead me to looking at hybrids. There are lots out there. We have test driven Priuses many times, and the Prius V would be a pretty decent option. Toyota is also currently offering 0% APR for 60 months. (And yes, we would qualify.) But, I kind of prefer the plug-in hybrids, which act more like the EVs for around town purposes, but the engine kicks in when the battery gets to a certain point. There is a plug-in Prius, but it's small, not good for kid/dog space or hauling.

Did a lot of looking around, and I think the best option might be the new Ford C Maxx Energi. This is their plug-in hybrid. I rode in a C Maxx in when we were in LA. It belonged to a friend of mine and he loved it. Great fuel efficiency, has the extra storage space, etc. And Ford is currently running a 0% APR for 72 month special, which the C Maxx is part of (and again, we are "well qualified" customers).
Looked at the local dealership, and they have one, even in the color I like most at $31,335 (which is pretty much right at MSRP). Tax adds another 10%. However, conservative estimates would put the trade in of our two vehicles around $7,500. That means after tax and trade ins, cost would be around $27k. (I realize there's also title and license, but even if we did finance those, which we likely wouldn't, they aren't going to be enough to really change these numbers.) At 0% for 72 months, that puts us at a payment of $375/month, which is easily affordable.
Insurance will change, but we'll be going from two cars to one, so I am not worried about that being a relevant amount more, and will very likely be less.

But I know, the question is not whether or not we can afford the payment, it is can we afford the car? And that answer is - not today, but in 1-2 months, absolutely. We expect to come away from the sale of the old house with $50-60k. Some of that is spoken for (running the gas line we already have for the heater to the water heater and the kitchen and getting a new stove), but there would be more than enough to cover the new car. We might also pay off my undergrad student loan, which would put $200/month back in our pocket.
Of course, if I'm getting 0% on the car, I am NOT paying it off early. 
Plus, there would be some upkeep savings with having a newer car, since it would not likely need thousands of dollars of work each year, which is what we're hitting with the other two. And we would be able to claim the sales tax on the new vehicle on our taxes. (Pure EVs qualify for tax credits, too, but I don't think the hybrids do any more.)


Your thoughts? What am I not thinking about? Are you aware of other wagon like hybrids that aren't the SUVs (which tend to start $40k+)?

[emma1420]

It sounds like a good idea to me.  And it's definitely worthwhile taking advantage of the 0% interest.

The only thing I would question is the trade in values you think you can receive for your current cars.  Have you had them appraised by a dealer yet?  The only reason I ask is that I had my 2007 Honda CRV (with only 57,000 miles) appraised a couple months ago, as I was thinking of replacing it, and the appraisals came back between 5-7K.  It was significantly lower than what KBB, Edmunds, or NADA came back for the condition and mileage on my car.

You might take your cars over to CarMax or try and sell them privately.  I'm sure you would get significantly more money towards you purchase that way.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Do you have any interest in having Pop Tart have a car, which would be in four years, right? I know you're walking distance from the high school, but does she have other (possible) activities? 

One of my daughter's activities are all at her high school--one third of a mile from our house. DD #1 has no need for a car (except in her own head). 
My other daughter's activities are all 20 miles away. I can see us wanting DD#2 to have a car for our convenience.  

Granted, you can trade both in now and get a used car for Pop Tart later.

[Blonde Granny]

My only question would be: In the past, hybrids of any type had a cost new that was much higher than a regular gasoline engine. Is that still the case?  Would you be able to get more car for less if you went with a gasoline fueled high MPG vehicle instead of the hybrid?

[shanendoah]

@sroo4 - One of the reasons to use dealerships for repairs around here is that they all offer free or very inexpensive ($10/day) loaners while your car is in the shop. So, even if the only car were out of commission for a period of time, we would be able to get a free/cheap loaner, and it wouldn't be an issue.

emma1420 - $7500 total for BOTH cars is a VERY conservative estimate. We paid $10k, after trade in, for the Wagon in 2012, with 180k miles on it. We have only put 15k more miles on it and taken great care of it and the sedan.
If we sold them privately instead of trading them in, we would probably walk away with double that. The problem is then I have to put even more work into trying to get the dog hair out of the wagon.

[shanendoah]

Knee Deep in Water Chloe - We have talked for years about getting some sort of scooter (Vespa type thing). My brother currently has a very low powered Ruckus that Pop Tart got to ride on, and she loved that. Given how centrally the new house is located, a vehicle for her in 4 years would very likely be something like that. And very likely a hand me down from me.
We could also conceivably buy her a used car at the time, if she earned it.

Blonde Granny - Base price of the hybrids is definitely higher than the regular gas cars. The decision to go hybrid is not an economic one, but an environmental one. If B99 were still a good option for us, we would certainly continue with diesel vehicles.
But the real answer, C isn't going to consider any vehicle that isn't hybrid/EV/alternative fuel.


The biggest hiccup with becoming a one car family is that one of the part time jobs C was considering was possibly driving for Lyft or Uber during school hours. But we could still make it work, especially if we ended up with some sort of scooter.

[Blonde Granny]

Thx Shane. We also have a diesel and so far we love it. I understand being environmentally conscious, ahem, we're just not in that category. And I drive a really big Mercedes Diesel SUV. Our reason is however, that we need the space for DHs walker and eventual wheelchair.

[tskeeter]

Aug 5, 2015 13:55:03 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

Knee Deep in Water Chloe - We have talked for years about getting some sort of scooter (Vespa type thing). My brother currently has a very low powered Ruckus that Pop Tart got to ride on, and she loved that. Given how centrally the new house is located, a vehicle for her in 4 years would very likely be something like that. And very likely a hand me down from me.
We could also conceivably buy her a used car at the time, if she earned it.

Blonde Granny - Base price of the hybrids is definitely higher than the regular gas cars. The decision to go hybrid is not an economic one, but an environmental one. If B99 were still a good option for us, we would certainly continue with diesel vehicles.
But the real answer, C isn't going to consider any vehicle that isn't hybrid/EV/alternative fuel.


The biggest hiccup with becoming a one car family is that one of the part time jobs C was considering was possibly driving for Lyft or Uber during school hours. But we could still make it work, especially if we ended up with some sort of scooter.

C would have to collect a lot of Uber fares to generate enough profit to equal the cash you'd get from selling the second car and the annual savings you'd get from eliminating the insurance, registration, and maintenance on the second car.  Plus, you need to consider whether Ubering would cause your car insurance rates to go up because you're now using the car to operate a business, rather than just for personal use.  Not only would the additional miles increase the risk of an accident, but hauling paying passengers increases the loss exposure, if C should be involved in a accident.  I'd really suck to have C in an accident, have the insurance company refuse to cover you because you were using the car to run a business, and have a passenger sue you for everything you've got, including the new house and your future earnings. 

[tskeeter]

Aug 5, 2015 13:09:51 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

C and I were a one car family from 2000-2006. We bought the VW Sedan in 2006, after a semester of me being in evening classes 30 miles south, while he worked 15 miles north. The time he had to leave work on the two nights I had class to get the car to me in time for me to make it to class was becoming problematic. 
We went back to being a one car family for about 18 months 2010-2012 when we were still struggling a bit with finances. We kept the second car, but basically insured it only for "storage" and it sat in it's out of the way parking space and did nothing. When we bought the VW Wagon in 2012, we went back to actively being a 2 car family again and have stayed there.

Now that we're in the new house, I have a quick and easy bus commute to work, one that will be preferable to driving even in bad weather. The new house is also walking distance from the elementary, middle, and high schools Pop Tart will be attending. C is done with school. So, it looks like it would be an ideal time to go back to being a single car family.

Obviously, the "best" thing to do, financially, would simply be to sell one of the paid for cars we have and keep driving the other. 
The problem here is deciding which car we would keep.

The Sedan is a 2006, 110k miles on it, heated seats (we both have back problems, these make driving any distance SOOO much better) and lots of bells and whistles. It's the car we bought new and know everything about. But it's a Sedan, which means there is no dog space that isn't also kid space, and isn't great for hauling larger items.
The Wagon is a 2003, 190k miles on it. Base model, no heated seats, no bells, no whistles. But, it's a wagon, so good for moving big things around, and there can be separate kid and dog space.

Both vehicles are diesel. We had been running B99 in them, but in the new neighborhood, there is no convenient B99. Best we can do is B20, and we have to go a bit out of our way for that.
The engines themselves will almost certainly make it past 300k miles. But other things are starting to be issues. Since November, we have probably spent over $5k on work on the Sedan. The Wagon not as much - but we've driven it only 15k miles since we bought it, when all sorts of work had been done. It is in the shop right now for $500+ repairs on the shocks/alignment system.

I'd had a vague idea of trading them both in and getting something new before, but yesterday, with the Wagon in for repairs, C called me to look up an error he was getting on the Sedan. Luckily, adding brake fluid fixed it, but it could also have been a problem with the ABS (breaks). And that kind of pushed me over the edge in thinking about a new car.

We both love all the new electric vehicles (EVs). We had a Leaf as a rental once and really liked it. But right now, the pure electrics (that aren't Teslas) have ranges topping out at 100 miles between charges (and most are closer to 80 miles). That makes them a great commuter vehicle, but we don't need a commuter vehicle as C doesn't commute, and I take the bus. We do need a car that will get us from Seattle to Portland on a somewhat regular basis (and sometimes at the last minute, meaning renting something for those trips isn't always a good option), and likely to MT this coming April.
There are also a couple companies with fuel cell vehicles on the roads, but those aren't available in the Seattle market, yet.

This lead me to looking at hybrids. There are lots out there. We have test driven Priuses many times, and the Prius V would be a pretty decent option. Toyota is also currently offering 0% APR for 60 months. (And yes, we would qualify.) But, I kind of prefer the plug-in hybrids, which act more like the EVs for around town purposes, but the engine kicks in when the battery gets to a certain point. There is a plug-in Prius, but it's small, not good for kid/dog space or hauling.

Did a lot of looking around, and I think the best option might be the new Ford C Maxx Energi. This is their plug-in hybrid. I rode in a C Maxx in when we were in LA. It belonged to a friend of mine and he loved it. Great fuel efficiency, has the extra storage space, etc. And Ford is currently running a 0% APR for 72 month special, which the C Maxx is part of (and again, we are "well qualified" customers).
Looked at the local dealership, and they have one, even in the color I like most at $31,335 (which is pretty much right at MSRP). Tax adds another 10%. However, conservative estimates would put the trade in of our two vehicles around $7,500. That means after tax and trade ins, cost would be around $27k. (I realize there's also title and license, but even if we did finance those, which we likely wouldn't, they aren't going to be enough to really change these numbers.) At 0% for 72 months, that puts us at a payment of $375/month, which is easily affordable.
Insurance will change, but we'll be going from two cars to one, so I am not worried about that being a relevant amount more, and will very likely be less.

But I know, the question is not whether or not we can afford the payment, it is can we afford the car? And that answer is - not today, but in 1-2 months, absolutely. We expect to come away from the sale of the old house with $50-60k. Some of that is spoken for (running the gas line we already have for the heater to the water heater and the kitchen and getting a new stove), but there would be more than enough to cover the new car. We might also pay off my undergrad student loan, which would put $200/month back in our pocket.
Of course, if I'm getting 0% on the car, I am NOT paying it off early. 
Plus, there would be some upkeep savings with having a newer car, since it would not likely need thousands of dollars of work each year, which is what we're hitting with the other two. And we would be able to claim the sales tax on the new vehicle on our taxes. (Pure EVs qualify for tax credits, too, but I don't think the hybrids do any more.)


Your thoughts? What am I not thinking about? Are you aware of other wagon like hybrids that aren't the SUVs (which tend to start $40k+)?

It's pretty unlikely that the annual repairs on one of your existing cars will exceed the payments on a new(er) car.  So, the saving money on repairs arguement doesn't wash until you get to the point of replacing an engine or transmission.  And, the insurance and registration on a new(er) vehicle will be more than you're currently paying, too.

Since you seem to be spending quite a bit on car repairs, and C has time to consider Uber driving, I'm wondering if he wouldn't be ahead to learn to do some auto repair.  Not very many of us make the $100 - $135 an hour that many shops and dealerships charge for a mechanic's time.  You're paying a premium price for your repairs.  That $500 shock replacement and alignment?  A pair of shocks is about $90 and an alignment is $80.  A savings of about $330 in after tax dollars (or, the equivalent of about $430 in pretax, Uber driving, dollars) for an investment of an hour or less of C's time.  All it takes is removing two bolts per shock.  (I know the numbers don't add up the way you think they should.  That's because the repair shop marks up the parts they put in your car to increase their profit.  For example, Pep Boys wanted to charge me $38.00 for a thermostat that they would install while changing coolant.  I walked into the attached Pep Boys retail store and bought that same thermostat for $13.50 and changed the coolant myself.) 

[shanendoah]

Blonde Granny - Whether you're doing it for environmental reasons or not, you are helping the environment by driving one of the new clean diesels. They get excellent mileage compared to their gas versions, and the engines tend to last a lot longer, so people drive them longer, decreasing their carbon footprint. I accept that while finances will always be a part of the conversation when we are making decisions like this, they are often not the main driver.

tskeeter - C could conceivably drive even if we were a one car family. It just means we'd have to keep the car cleaner than we are wont to do. We have a friend who drove for one of the companies while he was in between producing jobs. If C were to seriously consider driving for Uber or Lyft, he would talk to that friend about it, and then we would have a long conversation with our insurance guy about it. C used to be a cab driver, back when we were dating, so he does know more about what he would be getting into than most people.

No, C is just starting to consider part time jobs to get him out of the house a bit when Pop Tart is back in school. He's enjoyed having the last year off from being in school himself, but he's now ready to do "something". We don't need the money. I joke that I want him to get something that pays him about $10k/yr, as that will put us at 6 figures for taxable family income. (He'd only need like $5k a year to put us at 6 figures if we also counted our state snowflake money.)

[shanendoah]

tskeeter - the work being done on the wagon isn't actually the shocks. It's bridge repair or something to do with the suspension. (I was in the car when the lady called, and I missed some of the more specific words.)
Some work he could do at home, true, but I wouldn't want him out under a car during the day when no one else was home, and he's busy being a parent when Pop Tart is home, and I actually like to spend some time with him in the evenings and on weekends, too.

As for repairs, I don't know. $375/month for a year is $4,500. Just since last November, we have spent $7,500 in repairs on the cars. So I might actually come out ahead there.

[shanendoah]

EDITED because @southernsusana removed her post this was originally in response to, but keeping this part of my response because it is overall relevant.

Even if C took a 9-5 job, we still would likely only need one car. My commute really is by bus. I walk to the end of the block to catch the bus in the morning that drops me off directly behind my building on campus. Reverse that in the evenings. While I do have commuter tickets that will let me park, that's really more for if C comes to attend some of my department events, or gives us free parking if we're on campus on the weekend for something at the museum or one of the theaters.

[TheHaitian]

Good luck with your decision. We are also looking into becoming a 1 car family come September or so (pretty much decided to become one) and will get ride of my car : 2008 Kia Sportage.

Good luck

[tskeeter]

Aug 5, 2015 17:05:35 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

tskeeter - the work being done on the wagon isn't actually the shocks. It's bridge repair or something to do with the suspension. (I was in the car when the lady called, and I missed some of the more specific words.)
Some work he could do at home, true, but I wouldn't want him out under a car during the day when no one else was home, and he's busy being a parent when Pop Tart is home, and I actually like to spend some time with him in the evenings and on weekends, too.

As for repairs, I don't know. $375/month for a year is $4,500. Just since last November, we have spent $7,500 in repairs on the cars. So I might actually come out ahead there.

Yes, you could possibly come out ahead.  If you compare the payments on one car to the cost of maintainng two cars.  And if you were sure you would have to spend $7,500 on car repairs every single year.

What I think is that you really want a new car.  And you're hoping that folks here will affirm your desire for a new car.  I don't think a new car would be your best financial decision.  But, hey, if you want a new car and can afford it, get yourself a new car.  That's what I do.  Regardless of whether it's the optimal financial decision or not.  After all, it's not like I'm buying expensive new cars every year or two and would struggle to make the loan payments if I ran into a little financial hicup.  Part of the advantage of being financally secure is that you can indulge yourself every now and again.

[shanendoah]

@southernsusana - just so you know, I wasn't offended or anything

tskeeter - Do I REALLY want a new car? Yes and no. In the end, I think a new car would end up meeting all of our wants/needs better than either of the cars we have now. If it were up to me, we'd actually keep the wagon. We got the wagon for the kid/dog space reasons, and it's been really handy to have for home improvement type stuff, especially since we no longer have J (and his truck) as a roommate. But C would much rather keep the sedan as it is a much more comfortable car to be in.
I think a new car could give us the comfort of the sedan (and trust me, I love the heated seats, too), along with the utility of the wagon. In addition, given that B99 is hard to come by, getting a hybrid or plug in hybrid will still meet our environmental wishes.
But, there is a very good chance we will end up keeping the sedan and selling the wagon. I see very little chance that we would sell the sedan and keep the wagon, despite the utility. *shrug*

Of the money we spent, about $7k was all on the sedan. We just had a number of major things go wrong all around the same time (and considering we're now over 100k miles, that's not surprising).
Of course, we found out today that Les Schwab can't fix the wagon. Turns out something that is supposed to be welded together came apart and they don't have the infrastructure to lift it and have the car maintain integrity. So this has gone from a $550 repair to a heaven only knows repair.
Supposedly, it is still safe to drive, so C and I will need to go get it tomorrow and take it somewhere else. Might be the dealership, or might try the German Auto Center just down the street. We'll have to see.

[tskeeter]

Aug 5, 2015 19:26:58 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

@southernsusana - just so you know, I wasn't offended or anything

tskeeter - Do I REALLY want a new car? Yes and no. In the end, I think a new car would end up meeting all of our wants/needs better than either of the cars we have now. If it were up to me, we'd actually keep the wagon. We got the wagon for the kid/dog space reasons, and it's been really handy to have for home improvement type stuff, especially since we no longer have J (and his truck) as a roommate. But C would much rather keep the sedan as it is a much more comfortable car to be in.
I think a new car could give us the comfort of the sedan (and trust me, I love the heated seats, too), along with the utility of the wagon. In addition, given that B99 is hard to come by, getting a hybrid or plug in hybrid will still meet our environmental wishes.
But, there is a very good chance we will end up keeping the sedan and selling the wagon. I see very little chance that we would sell the sedan and keep the wagon, despite the utility. *shrug*

Of the money we spent, about $7k was all on the sedan. We just had a number of major things go wrong all around the same time (and considering we're now over 100k miles, that's not surprising).
Of course, we found out today that Les Schwab can't fix the wagon. Turns out something that is supposed to be welded together came apart and they don't have the infrastructure to lift it and have the car maintain integrity. So this has gone from a $550 repair to a heaven only knows repair.
Supposedly, it is still safe to drive, so C and I will need to go get it tomorrow and take it somewhere else. Might be the dealership, or might try the German Auto Center just down the street. We'll have to see.

Your broken weld situation sounds like it could be the kind of thing that a body shop could handle.  They have equipment to straighten and align frames and similar components as part of repairing accident damage.

[shanendoah]

I actually called and talked to the guy at the shop this morning to find out what was going on.

Car was in to replace lower control arms. The guy working at the shop then discovered that the weld had broken on the threaded bolt in the subframe. He was afraid that if he continued work, the bolt would fall into the subframe and he would not be able to get it out. So, he tightened the bolt and took the car down.

Car now has an appointment at the dealership next Tuesday morning (first appointment wasn't until Monday, and Tuesday I actually start my day in a meeting in a building very close to the dealership, so it's convenient). I tried calling the German Auto shop just down the road from us, but they were like "another shop looked at it? we couldn't do anything then, not if it's been in another shop for this problem". So, dealership it is.


C and I also talked some more about one car/new car. He is still loves our sedan. We've had it only 8 years, and he's not ready to part with it.
He's fine with selling the wagon and becoming a one car family, though he agrees with the utility aspect of the wagon.
He's fine with selling the wagon and getting something new.
But he's not fine with selling the sedan.