How do you deal with liars at work?

[emma1420]

If the FT is new then your boss is going to give them the benefit of the doubt over the next several months.  Or at least that has been my experience.  It does you no good to try and record her or trap her because, HIPPA issues aside, you will be the one who will end up looking petty and nasty.  All you can do, is as others have suggested, keep your head down and do your work week.  If critical information isn't being passed along, offer a suggestion for how this information can be communicated more efficiently and effectively.  

I have a new co-worker who seems incompetent and lazy.  But, my boss loves him and thinks he's great,  All I can do is try and help him and hope things improve.  Because trying to catch him out is only going to hurt me.  If this guy is what I think he is, then eventually my boss will buy a clue.  And, if your co-worker is the way you describe her then eventually your boss will recognize that and tear the appropriate action.

[NancysSummerSip]

Jul 28, 2015 12:07:43 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

But please be clear, I thought of this for other employee. It would be employee recording other employee. Not sure how that would involve HIPPA

Because recorders pick up ANYTHING within range.  If someone is talking within range to a patient and your recorder picks that up you are going to be in deep shit b/c you do not have the patient's consent and it's on an unsecured phone. 

That's actually a jailable offense under HIPAA and you'll also be fined out your freaking eyeballs.  You think you have money problems now . .

It's also illegal in NJ to record anyone without the permission of at least one party to the conversation. Since Opti is not a party to the conversation per se, someone who is would have to give their consent. NJ is a one party consent state (some states have a two party consent law). And "intercept or record" refers to any type of device, whether audio or visual.

New Jersey Wiretapping Law

New Jersey's wiretapping law is a "one-party consent" law. New Jersey makes it a crime to intercept or record an in-person or telephone conversation unless one party to the conversation consents. N.J. Stat. §§ 2A:156A-3, -4. (link is to the entire code; you need to click through to Title 2A, Article 156A, and then locate the specific provisions). Thus, if you operate in New Jersey, you may record a conversation or phone call if you are a party to the conversation or you get permission from one party to the conversation in advance. That said, if you intend to record conversations involving people located in more than one state, you should play it safe and get the consent of all parties.

In addition to subjecting you to criminal prosecution, violating the New Jersey wiretapping law can expose you to a civil lawsuit for damages by an injured party.

[NastyWoman]

The FT person is not more valuable than I am.

Opti remember that, like beauty, value is in the eye of the beholder.  I agree with all the others here.  Do your work and keep your head down. Stop all calls discussing FT with 2nd PT.  You NEED this job, so keep a low profile until you find something else.

[Deleted]

Are youenjoyable to work with and do a good job?  If not, I would  worry about doing a good job and getting along with everyone.  Things often work out if you are liked and do a good job.  I would not worry too much about how others do their job or if they lie unless that is your job.   If you get along with everyone and do a good job then what more can you do?  Politics or infighting are too hard to figure out.

[Shooby]

Jul 28, 2015 12:30:41 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Jul 28, 2015 12:07:43 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

But please be clear, I thought of this for other employee. It would be employee recording other employee. Not sure how that would involve HIPPA

Because recorders pick up ANYTHING within range.  If someone is talking within range to a patient and your recorder picks that up you are going to be in deep shit b/c you do not have the patient's consent and it's on an unsecured phone. 

That's actually a jailable offense under HIPAA and you'll also be fined out your freaking eyeballs.  You think you have money problems now . .

Anything that involves patients is a problem.  At the medical center where I worked, there were signs in the elevators asking doctors not to discuss patients in public, including elevators.  Recording in a medical setting where you have no control over what's being recorded is going to wind you up in a world of shit.  Not only is the individual fined, the facility is also fined.

Honestly, if you don't see how this involves HIPAA, you need further training.  This is alarming to me of you don't understand how this works.

She works in a patient care unit and we really have to tell her this?!!

[Plain Old Petunia]

Jul 28, 2015 7:59:34 GMT -5 Opti said:

I need to move on, so I need advice on how to survive until I get a better job(likely 6+ months if I go big and corporate) and/or the liar gets suspended/fired or I get promoted into a better back office job once our facility is finally finished and our census/budget goes back up to sustainable levels(October? November?).

So ... how do you deal with a known liar at work? She lies about things that I think are a waste of time to lie about, but she seems unable to admit 'I do not know' or 'I need to find out'. So she's said some stupid things in the past that luckily I caught right away, but it has hurt me because since she works FT Tues-Sat, she has more face time with the department heads and is told things she is supposed to pass on to both PTers. She fails on passing things down fairly often and sometimes the stuff she says other people say, well, its hard to believe. Sometimes it turns out to be mostly true, and other times - like the beautician incident it is totally made up. Beautician hates her guts now FWIW. She told everyone the beautician was not coming one of her scheduled days and it turned out she was.

She also plants stories. We are supposed to send end of shift reports every time. I think if I tattle on her, or say what actually happened I want to email from my personal Internet account so she can not see it. I wonder if she does do reports occasionally but emails from her former real estate email account(the one email account for her we have on record and do forward important stuff to). I cut her huge slack because of the death of her father and the loss of her former job, but that's been over for a few weeks.

Death to assholes!

Request that the department heads advise you of these things in writing.

[Deleted]

I find this thread fascinating. When I worked at Kaiser I had an IT boss who recorded all of her phone messages from her phone onto tapes she then took home in case she ever needed "evidence". She also often tape recorded conversations in her office and staff meetings. We were under HIPAA then.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jul 28, 2015 18:40:29 GMT -5 @workingshasta said:

I find this thread fascinating. When I worked at Kaiser I had an IT boss who recorded all of her phone messages from her phone onto tapes she then took home in case she ever needed "evidence". She also often tape recorded conversations in her office and staff meetings. We were under HIPAA then.

But did your staff meetings in IT discuss patient PHI?

HIPAA was enacted in 1996, but things really ramped up around 2004ish.  I remember a student in the lab was doing a record search for a PI in the lab a year earlier and the patient records were left in the lab break room unlocked.  I mentioned to the PI that the records really needed to be stored in a better place, but he was unconcerned.

A year later, he had a coronary when there was something that he considered a breach but wasn't.

[CCL]

Jul 28, 2015 15:27:37 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Jul 28, 2015 12:30:41 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Anything that involves patients is a problem.  At the medical center where I worked, there were signs in the elevators asking doctors not to discuss patients in public, including elevators.  Recording in a medical setting where you have no control over what's being recorded is going to wind you up in a world of shit.  Not only is the individual fined, the facility is also fined.

Honestly, if you don't see how this involves HIPAA, you need further training.  This is alarming to me of you don't understand how this works.

She works in a patient care unit and we really have to tell her this?!!

You took the words right out of my mouth. Most of the facilities I work at completely ban all cell phones. Possession of one on facility property will get you immediate termination with no second chances. FYI - it's HIPAA, not HIPPA.

[Deleted]

Were you & the other part timer both passed over for the FT job the Princess got? I'd be very careful of complaining as it would be construed as sour grapes. Instead, if there are actual information flow issues, you can present both the issue + solution without finger pointing.

So something like this . . . I am concerned over inconsistencies in shift change information sharing. Can we create a daily shift calendar and structure it to contain the critical notes information that are needed to fulfill next shift duties?  Here's a sample of what that could look like that I made up to help illustrate my suggestion.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

When I worked at Kaiser I had an IT boss who recorded all of her phone messages from her phone onto tapes she then took home in case she ever needed "evidence". She also often tape recorded conversations in her office and staff meetings

I am going to assume that your boss didn't discuss patient information during her phone calls and that you weren't discussing it during meetings since you were in IT.  I'd also assume the IT department was far away from any patient settings.  If you aren't dealing with patient information you aren't violating HIPAA.

Opti works at the front desk in a medical setting.  She has said she overhead the FT-er "talking smack" about her to patients.   That means both of them are coming into contact with patients every day.

If Opti is recording the FT-er it is likely that at some point patient information is going to be picked up.   Now there is someone's medical information that has been recorded without permission.  To top it off she'd be using her smart phone which is unsecured, there no way to secure the information so others don't hear it.   That is a HUGE violation of HIPAA, to the point where Opti would likely be facing jail time.   The facility would probably stand a good chance of being shut down as well.

It certainly would not get the FT-er in trouble like Opti desires.  It wouldn't prove anything about the FT-er.  Instead it would show that Opti has no respect for the federal laws she needs to abide by in her workplace and has no business being employed in a medical care setting.

Mich is right people have been fired/fined for way smaller HIPAA offenses.   This would be the grand pooh-bah of HIPAA offenses.

[ArchietheDragon]

Jul 29, 2015 8:58:46 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

When I worked at Kaiser I had an IT boss who recorded all of her phone messages from her phone onto tapes she then took home in case she ever needed "evidence". She also often tape recorded conversations in her office and staff meetings

I am going to assume that your boss didn't discuss patient information during her phone calls and that you weren't discussing it during meetings since you were in IT.  I'd also assume the IT department was far away from any patient settings.  If you aren't dealing with patient information you aren't violating HIPAA.

Opti works at the front desk in a medical setting.  She has said she overhead the FT-er "talking smack" about her to patients.   That means both of them are coming into contact with patients every day.

If Opti is recording the FT-er it is likely that at some point patient information is going to be picked up.   Now there is someone's medical information that has been recorded without permission.  To top it off she'd be using her smart phone which is unsecured, there no way to secure the information so others don't hear it.   That is a HUGE violation of HIPAA, to the point where Opti would likely be facing jail time.   The facility would probably stand a good chance of being shut down as well.

It certainly would not get the FT-er in trouble like Opti desires.  It wouldn't prove anything about the FT-er.  Instead it would show that Opti has no respect for the federal laws she needs to abide by in her workplace and has no business being employed in a medical care setting.

Mich is right people have been fired/fined for way smaller HIPAA offenses.   This would be the grand pooh-bah of HIPAA offenses.

I wonder how many people were fired when Blue Cross didn't secure the medical records of 11 million of their customers. 

[Deleted]

When I was at the doctor's office on Monday the PA left the PC logged in when he left the room. I looked over, it was facing me, and there was the day's patient schedule with everyone's name and the reason for their visit. Complete violation. It happens all the dang time, unfortunately.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I looked over, it was facing me, and there was the day's patient schedule with everyone's name and the reason for their visit. Complete violation. It happens all the dang time, unfortunately.

It does but that is no excuse.   Ideally you should have reported it and then the powers that be would have dealt with it accordingly.  Technically anything in violation of HIPAA is a fireable offense but depending on the offense there are other options for discipline such as retraining.

What your PA did was a mistake.  Opti is deliberately and knowingly recording in a patient setting on an unsecured phone without the permission of ANYONE being recorded.

She's not making a mistake.  She's deliberately committing a violation in hopes of getting a co-worker in trouble.   That's a totally different ball game.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jul 29, 2015 9:49:00 GMT -5 @workingshasta said:

When I was at the doctor's office on Monday the PA left the PC logged in when he left the room. I looked over, it was facing me, and there was the day's patient schedule with everyone's name and the reason for their visit. Complete violation. It happens all the dang time, unfortunately.

It does happen, but that doesn't make it right.  If I was a patient there, I would be inclined to make waves....and probably would.  My concern would be if they were as lax about this, what else are they lax about?

I should expect the same security of my PHI that I provide for my research subjects.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jul 29, 2015 9:15:39 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Jul 29, 2015 8:58:46 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

When I worked at Kaiser I had an IT boss who recorded all of her phone messages from her phone onto tapes she then took home in case she ever needed "evidence". She also often tape recorded conversations in her office and staff meetings

I am going to assume that your boss didn't discuss patient information during her phone calls and that you weren't discussing it during meetings since you were in IT.  I'd also assume the IT department was far away from any patient settings.  If you aren't dealing with patient information you aren't violating HIPAA.

Opti works at the front desk in a medical setting.  She has said she overhead the FT-er "talking smack" about her to patients.   That means both of them are coming into contact with patients every day.

If Opti is recording the FT-er it is likely that at some point patient information is going to be picked up.   Now there is someone's medical information that has been recorded without permission.  To top it off she'd be using her smart phone which is unsecured, there no way to secure the information so others don't hear it.   That is a HUGE violation of HIPAA, to the point where Opti would likely be facing jail time.   The facility would probably stand a good chance of being shut down as well.

It certainly would not get the FT-er in trouble like Opti desires.  It wouldn't prove anything about the FT-er.  Instead it would show that Opti has no respect for the federal laws she needs to abide by in her workplace and has no business being employed in a medical care setting.

Mich is right people have been fired/fined for way smaller HIPAA offenses.   This would be the grand pooh-bah of HIPAA offenses.

I wonder how many people were fired when Blue Cross didn't secure the medical records of 11 million of their customers. 

This wasn't a case of someone being careless with PHI, but of someone hacking into the system.  My PHI got caught up in this and I have to deal with it now.

[ArchietheDragon]

Jul 29, 2015 11:19:06 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Jul 29, 2015 9:15:39 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

I wonder how many people were fired when Blue Cross didn't secure the medical records of 11 million of their customers. 

This wasn't a case of someone being careless with PHI, but of someone hacking into the system.  My PHI got caught up in this and I have to deal with it now.

I would have to say that the IT and IT security team was careless.     Does it really matter if someone hits control-alt-delte to prevent someone from seeing an individual patients name if 11 million patient names are leaked out on the back side?

[Opti]

Jul 29, 2015 9:15:39 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Jul 29, 2015 8:58:46 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

When I worked at Kaiser I had an IT boss who recorded all of her phone messages from her phone onto tapes she then took home in case she ever needed "evidence". She also often tape recorded conversations in her office and staff meetings

I am going to assume that your boss didn't discuss patient information during her phone calls and that you weren't discussing it during meetings since you were in IT.  I'd also assume the IT department was far away from any patient settings.  If you aren't dealing with patient information you aren't violating HIPAA.

Opti works at the front desk in a medical setting.  She has said she overhead the FT-er "talking smack" about her to patients.   That means both of them are coming into contact with patients every day.

If Opti is recording the FT-er it is likely that at some point patient information is going to be picked up.   Now there is someone's medical information that has been recorded without permission.  To top it off she'd be using her smart phone which is unsecured, there no way to secure the information so others don't hear it.   That is a HUGE violation of HIPAA, to the point where Opti would likely be facing jail time.   The facility would probably stand a good chance of being shut down as well.

It certainly would not get the FT-er in trouble like Opti desires.  It wouldn't prove anything about the FT-er.  Instead it would show that Opti has no respect for the federal laws she needs to abide by in her workplace and has no business being employed in a medical care setting.

Mich is right people have been fired/fined for way smaller HIPAA offenses.   This would be the grand pooh-bah of HIPAA offenses.

I wonder how many people were fired when Blue Cross didn't secure the medical records of 11 million of their customers. 

Hold up. I said nothing of the sort. All I said is the other PT person said *she* heard the FTer talking smack about her to the dementia patient with no one else around. That's it. No mas.

No wonder some of you get so worked up. You see things that are not there. React to things I do not say.

Sigh.

[Opti]

Jul 28, 2015 12:09:19 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Jul 28, 2015 12:07:43 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

But please be clear, I thought of this for other employee. It would be employee recording other employee. Not sure how that would involve HIPPA

Because recorders pick up ANYTHING within range.  If someone is talking to a patient and your recorder picks that up you are going to be in deep shit b/c you do not have the patient's consent and it's on an unsecured phone. 

That's actually a jailable offense under HIPAA and you'll also be fined out your freaking eyeballs.  You think you have money problems now . .

At least she could become someone's bitch in jail.  I have seen Orange is the New Black.  Those jails are hot and steamy. 

Not becoming anyone's bitch nor no desire to make anyone my bitch. I'd rather do hot and steamy with tall, good-looking and male. Rich optional. mechanic optional. Must like good food.

[Opti]

Jul 28, 2015 12:30:41 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Jul 28, 2015 12:07:43 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

But please be clear, I thought of this for other employee. It would be employee recording other employee. Not sure how that would involve HIPPA

Because recorders pick up ANYTHING within range.  If someone is talking within range to a patient and your recorder picks that up you are going to be in deep shit b/c you do not have the patient's consent and it's on an unsecured phone. 

That's actually a jailable offense under HIPAA and you'll also be fined out your freaking eyeballs.  You think you have money problems now . .

Anything that involves patients is a problem.  At the medical center where I worked, there were signs in the elevators asking doctors not to discuss patients in public, including elevators.  Recording in a medical setting where you have no control over what's being recorded is going to wind you up in a world of shit.  Not only is the individual fined, the facility is also fined.

Honestly, if you don't see how this involves HIPAA, you need further training.  This is alarming to me of you don't understand how this works.

Honestly, if you can not see this was one off complaining, you need retraining in reading comprehension.

 shakes head and walks away...

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jul 29, 2015 11:33:11 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jul 28, 2015 12:30:41 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Anything that involves patients is a problem.  At the medical center where I worked, there were signs in the elevators asking doctors not to discuss patients in public, including elevators.  Recording in a medical setting where you have no control over what's being recorded is going to wind you up in a world of shit.  Not only is the individual fined, the facility is also fined.

Honestly, if you don't see how this involves HIPAA, you need further training.  This is alarming to me of you don't understand how this works.

Honestly, if you can not see this was one off complaining, you need retraining in reading comprehension.

 shakes head and walks away...

Ummm.....YOU were the one talking about using a cell phone to record conversations.  I don't see how I need training in reading comprehension - or if I do, then every single other person on this board who has commented on your lack of understanding HIPAA compliance does as well.  I've worked in medical centers for 35 years and have seen a lot.  I've also seen what is considered lack of compliance AND what happens when you get caught.  You don't want to get caught, they fine you, they fine the institution AND you are dismissed.  No healthcare facility will touch you with a 20' pole.  As many of us depend upon working in healthcare facilities for our career, being shut out of working there would be career suicide.

You might want to step back and think that if the majority of the people think the way that I do, that maybe.....just maybe, it's not us.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jul 29, 2015 11:29:23 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jul 29, 2015 9:15:39 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

I wonder how many people were fired when Blue Cross didn't secure the medical records of 11 million of their customers. 

Hold up. I said nothing of the sort. All I said is the other PT person said *she* heard the FTer talking smack about her to the dementia patient with no one else around. That's it. No mas.

No wonder some of you get so worked up. You see things that are not there. React to things I do not say.

Sigh.

And aren't you talking about recording the FT'er?

It doesn't matter if no one else is around.  Recordings pick up all sorts of things that they should not pick up, or that you do not expect them to pick up.  Not only that, you cannot control what someone else says.   Even if you are recording the FT'er about something regarding schedule and she says "BTW, XXXXX has been a problem this evening and will need to be watched", that will be picked up before you can turn your phone off.

[Miss Tequila]

Jul 29, 2015 12:07:11 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

So I must really be missing something... Isn't this what you said Opti ?

Me and the other PTer do talk, because we experience similar crap at the hands of FTer who we were told to treat respectfully. I do want a smart phone now so I can record Princess. She supposedly told the acting up dementia patient something of the effect that 'other PTer is disrespectful, we should tell head cheese'.

It is really annoying when you use facts to back up your posts....

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I see no where in that post where you said the other PT-er is the one that tattled.

Even more of a reason to stop talking with her.  She's spreading gossip and fueling flames.  I am betting dollars to donuts information is going back the other direction.

Oh and I know you are trying to claim that this is all a joke/fantasty which okay fine whatever.  I REALLY hope you never mentioned this to anyone in RL b/c just the fact you were even toying with the idea of such a serious breach can be grounds for termination.  Nobody is going to want to take the chance on you following thru.

The fact you can't see how serious this is and that it isn't something to even joke about makes me wonder what kind of training you are getting.

[Deleted]

Jul 28, 2015 8:37:42 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

My only advice....keep your head down and do your job until you get something better. Well...not my only advice. I remember from another thread you were told to "document" incidents. And in this post you mention tattling. I'm just going to tell you....I've told employees to "document" incidents there were complaining about. I do it because they are chronic complainers and it gives them something to do. I'm not saying this is you. I'm just saying I'd be careful if I were you. You start tattling and documenting and you may find yourself out the door before you have secured other employment.  Obviously, if there are incidents where this other employee puts you or a patient in danger, that's a different story. 

You asked for advice on how to stay afloat until you get something better. Keep your head down. Keep your mouth shut. Do your job in a way that nobody will be able to find fault with. Use your home time to secure a job more to your liking.  At that point, you can flip them off on your way out the door and scream "LIAR" to your heart's content.  Until then, you need this so use your head. 

I agree, do your job as best you can and stay away from the liar.
There is no way to deal with liars other than to let karma do its work. Sooner or later liars will be exposed.

[Shooby]

Opt- You really seem to spend a lot of time monitoring things that probably arent' your business. And is the new FT your subordinate? If not, it really isn't your JOB to monitor her job. .

[Works4me]

Seriously - start job hunting now and don't let it take six months - seriously!

They are going to be re-organizing things when the new unit opens and your job will be eliminated.