I was right: President Elect Trump

[Deleted]

Sept 6, 2016 20:20:34 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Sept 6, 2016 20:11:03 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

That's exactly what terrifies me... BOTH outlooks are horrible. Trump's being just a smidge less so... because he will (hopefully) have gotten rid of Obamacare by the end of that first year.

please. How many futile votes has Congress had attempting to get rid of the ACA in the last two years?

Each one vetoed by The poor excuse of a President it was named after.

Remember, several of the votes PASSED... so the futility wasn't in trying  to get rid of that garbage. The futility was thinking it was possible that Obama would actually care about what was good for America.

If Trump gets in and a repeal of Obamacare comes across his desk, it will only take that one "try". If Hillary gets in it would immediately be vetoed (she's already said she plans to carry on his vision of it).

[resolution]

Ironically, that is the main reason that I prefer Hillary to Trump. There is a good chance I will be losing my employer based health insurance this year and I want to be able to buy insurance when that happens. My husband was born with a birth defect that makes him uninsurable and I have high cholesterol, so if the ACA is repealed I may not be able to buy health insurance for either one of us at any price.

ETA: Well I have other reasons, but that is the only one that I think would actually impact me personally.

[Deleted]

You prefer Hillary because she wants to keep that worthless boondoggle and bankrupt the nation?

[tallguy]

Ironically when compared to the stereotypes (and the GOP's self-promotion) the Democrats are now more fiscally responsible than the Republicans are.  Yes, both parties spend too much, but Republicans are far happier to borrow to finance their spending, historically, and have been since Reagan.  And while you continue to trash the ACA, your efforts would be better spent trying to get the Republicans to come up with SOMETHING to replace it with rather than their mindless bleating to repeal it.  ANYTHING.  The only thing they have come up with as a real plan in quite a few years is what became the basic framework for the ACA.  The Republican plan in the '90's shared several elements with the ACA, though with differences as well.  Regardless, the GOP has done nothing of consequence in years with regard to health care.  They do have whining down to a science, however.   

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Lying Crooked (sick and dying) Hillary is officially in free fall. Her campaign has collapsed. There's ZERO interest in her as a candidate, her events can't draw flies, she lacks the stamina to make it through the perfunctory thank you to so and so's and never does really get going. And her staff- and her own running mate can't even find it within themselves to rescue her from what end up being several horrific episodes. And the dishonest Democratic media propaganda machine is discovering the down side of manufacturing double digit leads for Hillary-- the apparent "swing" in the polls is YUGE, and the perception it creates is one they'd tried to create in the opposite direction. Trump's up everywhere. In Ohio-- 10 point swing as Trump pulls away. It's Hillary by two points in VA, two points in PA, down two points in FL (a 7 point swing if you believed she was ever up by 5 points). They can't keep all the balls in the air on these phony polls- and we're still not addressing the monster vote...



Stick a fork in her. She's done.

[Deleted]

Sept 6, 2016 23:14:02 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Ironically when compared to the stereotypes (and the GOP's self-promotion) the Democrats are now more fiscally responsible than the Republicans are.  Yes, both parties spend too much, but Republicans are far happier to borrow to finance their spending, historically, and have been since Reagan.  And while you continue to trash the ACA, your efforts would be better spent trying to get the Republicans to come up with SOMETHING to replace it with rather than their mindless bleating to repeal it.  ANYTHING.  The only thing they have come up with as a real plan in quite a few years is what became the basic framework for the ACA.  The Republican plan in the '90's shared several elements with the ACA, though with differences as well.  Regardless, the GOP has done nothing of consequence in years with regard to health care.  They do have whining down to a science, however.   

I honestly wish someone would come up with something better. But the first step is to get rid of the crap that doesn't work and is bankrupting the country. Then start over from scratch.

It would be the greatest of folly to try and "fix" Obamacare. "Fixing" it just won't work (they've already tried... and every "fix", to date, has just made things worse). It has to be scrapped and everyone start over.

[tallguy]

No, the first step cannot be to just scrap it.  You need something to put in place instead of it, and that something has to be ready to go immediately WHEN you scrap it.  (Or more precisely, transition to it.)  Even if Republicans had the political will to put something together, and that is a huge assumption in itself, they would be years away from getting something ready to implement.  They screwed up horrendously by not involving themselves originally, and cannot easily make up for that error now.

[Deleted]

Sept 7, 2016 1:26:34 GMT -5 tallguy said:

No, the first step cannot be to just scrap it.  You need something to put in place instead of it, and that something has to be ready to go immediately WHEN you scrap it.  (Or more precisely, transition to it.)  Even if Republicans had the political will to put something together, and that is a huge assumption in itself, they would be years away from getting something ready to implement.  They screwed up horrendously by not involving themselves originally, and cannot easily make up for that error now.

The first step must be to scrap it because otherwise nothing will be done to replace it... using the "we're paying for it, may as well keep using it as long as we are" defense.

If there's nothing there something will need to fill the vacuum.


But... that said...

I could get on board with scrapping it with a requirement. Something along the lines of "Once a new plan is approved, Obamacare shall be null and void" (obviously in several pages of legalese, but that would be the gist of it)

[resolution]

If they just scrap it with nothing ready to go in its place, too many people will end up dead. For all it's flaws, an additional 20% of the population now has health coverage that didn't previously. In addition, there are others that did have employer or private health insurance that is no longer available.

As far as I know, all the effort has gone to scrapping it or trying to fight the people that want to scrap it. I haven't read about any fixes or compromises. I would be more open to scrapping it if they did have a plan that was ready to replace it immediately.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Sept 6, 2016 20:25:21 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 6, 2016 20:20:34 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

please. How many futile votes has Congress had attempting to get rid of the ACA in the last two years?

Each one vetoed by The poor excuse of a President it was named after.

Remember, several of the votes PASSED... so the futility wasn't in trying  to get rid of that garbage. The futility was thinking it was possible that Obama would actually care about what was good for America.

If Trump gets in and a repeal of Obamacare comes across his desk, it will only take that one "try". If Hillary gets in it would immediately be vetoed (she's already said she plans to carry on his vision of it).

I don't remember any passing but honestly, I wasn't tracking it.

[happyhoix]

Sept 7, 2016 1:35:42 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Sept 7, 2016 1:26:34 GMT -5 tallguy said:

No, the first step cannot be to just scrap it.  You need something to put in place instead of it, and that something has to be ready to go immediately WHEN you scrap it.  (Or more precisely, transition to it.)  Even if Republicans had the political will to put something together, and that is a huge assumption in itself, they would be years away from getting something ready to implement.  They screwed up horrendously by not involving themselves originally, and cannot easily make up for that error now.

The first step must be to scrap it because otherwise nothing will be done to replace it... using the "we're paying for it, may as well keep using it as long as we are" defense.

If there's nothing there something will need to fill the vacuum.


But... that said...

I could get on board with scrapping it with a requirement. Something along the lines of "Once a new plan is approved, Obamacare shall be null and void" (obviously in several pages of legalese, but that would be the gist of it)

Nothing filled the vacuum prior to the ACA, and certainly the GOP didn't give a shit that the vacuum existed. That 47 million people below the age of 65 had no medical insurance.

They fought tooth and nail to prevent ANY changes that would help provide medical insurance to that 47 million people. And I've heard nothing but bitching about wasted taxpayer dollars since it went though.

Because helping people find affordable medical healthcare coverage so they can lead healthier and longer lives is apparently a fucking waste of money.

If we're going to cut government boondoggle spending, why not go after the corporate subsidies? How is granting 63 billion dollars in tax breaks to Fortune 500 companies a better use of government money than making sure the working poor have access to affordable health insurance? Yet I've never once heard a GOP politician suggest we trim those tax reduction programs.  All I hear is bitching about the money blown on the ACA - with no suggestions on what would work better. Just the same old - " let's go back to the shit we had before because it didn't impact me personally."

www.forbes.com/sites/taxanalysts/2014/03/14/where-is-the-outrage-over-corporate-welfare/#1cdcb0926881

 

[Opti]

Sept 6, 2016 23:17:38 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Lying Crooked (sick and dying) Hillary is officially in free fall. Her campaign has collapsed. There's ZERO interest in her as a candidate, her events can't draw flies, she lacks the stamina to make it through the perfunctory thank you to so and so's and never does really get going. And her staff- and her own running mate can't even find it within themselves to rescue her from what end up being several horrific episodes. And the dishonest Democratic media propaganda machine is discovering the down side of manufacturing double digit leads for Hillary-- the apparent "swing" in the polls is YUGE, and the perception it creates is one they'd tried to create in the opposite direction. Trump's up everywhere. In Ohio-- 10 point swing as Trump pulls away. It's Hillary by two points in VA, two points in PA, down two points in FL (a 7 point swing if you believed she was ever up by 5 points). They can't keep all the balls in the air on these phony polls- and we're still not addressing the monster vote...



Stick a fork in her. She's done.

Coughing is just coughing. I have sinus issues and certain times of the year I could have coughing fits like that too if I had to do speeches. Big deal. Not.

I love how the middle pic in your montage isn't even current. I could show the health of Trump by showcasing all his fast food meals, but eh, so what.

Polls change, duh. I understand though that Trump is actually funding polling to manufacture his own results? Tracking the real ebb and flow too hard I guess? There is no monster vote. The math and the assumptions are horrifically wrong and misguided.

[OldCoyote]

Sept 7, 2016 1:26:34 GMT -5 tallguy said:

No, the first step cannot be to just scrap it.  You need something to put in place instead of it, and that something has to be ready to go immediately WHEN you scrap it.  (Or more precisely, transition to it.)  Even if Republicans had the political will to put something together, and that is a huge assumption in itself, they would be years away from getting something ready to implement.  They screwed up horrendously by not involving themselves originally, and cannot easily make up for that error now.

They screwed up horrendously by not involving themselves originally, and cannot easily make up for that error now.

What??  ACA is 100% owned by the Democrats, They had all the votes they needed to past "anything they wanted"

Every time the Republican made any suggestion, it was shot down..  Remember how arrogant Obama was?

So now when this Yuge steaming pile of horse crap called Obamacare, that you had to pass it to to find out what was in it, 2900 pages long,

now collapsing under it's own weight!

It is some how the Republicans fault!!!!!

[dondub]

Sick and dying? That would describe the validity of that posters current spate of commentary.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 7, 2016 10:21:02 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Sept 7, 2016 1:26:34 GMT -5 tallguy said:

No, the first step cannot be to just scrap it.  You need something to put in place instead of it, and that something has to be ready to go immediately WHEN you scrap it.  (Or more precisely, transition to it.)  Even if Republicans had the political will to put something together, and that is a huge assumption in itself, they would be years away from getting something ready to implement.  They screwed up horrendously by not involving themselves originally, and cannot easily make up for that error now.

They screwed up horrendously by not involving themselves originally, and cannot easily make up for that error now.

What??  ACA is 100% owned by the Democrats, They had all the votes they needed to past "anything they wanted"

false.  the Blue Dog Democrats sided with the GOP on "the public option".  if you don't remember that, i suggest that you look it up.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 7, 2016 1:26:34 GMT -5 tallguy said:

No, the first step cannot be to just scrap it.  You need something to put in place instead of it, and that something has to be ready to go immediately WHEN you scrap it.  (Or more precisely, transition to it.)  Even if Republicans had the political will to put something together, and that is a huge assumption in itself, they would be years away from getting something ready to implement.  They screwed up horrendously by not involving themselves originally, and cannot easily make up for that error now.

given that the template for the ACA was from the Heritage Foundation, it is difficult to argue that they had no say in the formation of it.  that is probably why they didn't feel the need to participate.  Obama was doing their bidding for them.

[happyhoix]

Sept 7, 2016 10:21:02 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Sept 7, 2016 1:26:34 GMT -5 tallguy said:

No, the first step cannot be to just scrap it.  You need something to put in place instead of it, and that something has to be ready to go immediately WHEN you scrap it.  (Or more precisely, transition to it.)  Even if Republicans had the political will to put something together, and that is a huge assumption in itself, they would be years away from getting something ready to implement.  They screwed up horrendously by not involving themselves originally, and cannot easily make up for that error now.

They screwed up horrendously by not involving themselves originally, and cannot easily make up for that error now.

What??  ACA is 100% owned by the Democrats, They had all the votes they needed to past "anything they wanted"

Every time the Republican made any suggestion, it was shot down..  Remember how arrogant Obama was?

So now when this Yuge steaming pile of horse crap called Obamacare, that you had to pass it to to find out what was in it, 2900 pages long,

now collapsing under it's own weight!

It is some how the Republicans fault!!!!!

The bill had to add and remove so much stuff to finally get past the GOP (and the big insurance companies) that the final frankenbill was just a 'first stab.' Of course there are issues with it.

We can try for a 'second stab' to improve it or we can scrap the whole thing and go back to the sorry ass state of affairs we had prior to the ACA.

[djAdvocate]

this is from an interview today:

"No, I'm talking about general here," Trump said. "By the way -- She says things about me that are horrible. As an example. The single greatest asset I have, according to those that know me is my temperament. But she came up with this Madison Avenue item about his temperament. It is the single greatest asset I have - my temperament."

well, then you are worthless, because your temperament SUCKS ASS.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 7, 2016 10:21:02 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Sept 7, 2016 1:26:34 GMT -5 tallguy said:

No, the first step cannot be to just scrap it.  You need something to put in place instead of it, and that something has to be ready to go immediately WHEN you scrap it.  (Or more precisely, transition to it.)  Even if Republicans had the political will to put something together, and that is a huge assumption in itself, they would be years away from getting something ready to implement.  They screwed up horrendously by not involving themselves originally, and cannot easily make up for that error now.

They screwed up horrendously by not involving themselves originally, and cannot easily make up for that error now.

What??  ACA is 100% owned by the Democrats, They had all the votes they needed to past "anything they wanted"

Every time the Republican made any suggestion, it was shot down..  Remember how arrogant Obama was?

So now when this Yuge steaming pile of horse crap called Obamacare, that you had to pass it to to find out what was in it, 2900 pages long,

now collapsing under it's own weight!

It is some how the Republicans fault!!!!!

“At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child — miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats.”
- P.J. O'Rourke 

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Sept 7, 2016 10:24:06 GMT -5 dondub said:

Sick and dying? That would describe the validity of that posters current spate of commentary.

You know what the worst moment of the campaign was? When Hillary Clinton puked in her class and then took a swig of it to cover it up. Can't unsee that. 

[Tennesseer]

Sept 7, 2016 12:52:17 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Sept 7, 2016 10:24:06 GMT -5 dondub said:

Sick and dying? That would describe the validity of that posters current spate of commentary.

You know what the worst moment of the campaign was when Hillary Clinton puked in her class and then took a swig of it to cover it up. Can't unsee that. 

Link to whatever the hell you are posting about.

[dondub]

Sick and dying? That would describe the validity of that posters recent spate of commentary.

[Opti]

Sept 7, 2016 12:53:31 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 7, 2016 12:52:17 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

You know what the worst moment of the campaign was when Hillary Clinton puked in her class and then took a swig of it to cover it up. Can't unsee that. 

Link to whatever the hell you are posting about.

Please no. I don't think Hillary is teaching any classes anyway.

[dondub]

Phlegmghazi!

[Opti]

And the RW bloggers go off the deep end again. Geez, can't these people tell the difference between phlegm and puking?

I couldn't really see anything in the video. If she did clear her throat into the glass and then drink from it, yes gross. But much less disgusting than vomit. I guess that's why the web exaggerators want to pretend its something its not.

[Opti]

The more I watch it the more I think the supposed close up has been doctored. Phlegm nor vomit does not come out in an almost perfect rectangle.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 7, 2016 13:02:22 GMT -5 dondub said:

Phlegmghazi!

OMFG!!!!!  WHAT ELSE HAS SHE DONE!!!?   DID SHE TAKE A SHIT



edit: i think this video is a fraud.  any bets?

[djAdvocate]

Sept 7, 2016 13:32:29 GMT -5 Opti said:

The more I watch it the more I think the supposed close up has been doctored. Phlegm nor vomit does not come out in an almost perfect rectangle.

and unless it is made of something like porcelain, it doesn't sink like that, either.

[Opti]

I think its doctored too. Its also appears longer than a Listerine strip. The crazy conspiracy people are all happy though. Demon blood, alien mucus, medical diagnoses that make no sense. In other words, Wednesday in campaign season.

[Tennesseer]

Throat lozenge?  Cough drop?

Meh.  Either way she didn't puke in her "class".