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Post by Opti on Feb 10, 2016 12:26:36 GMT -5
More or less isn't it what you have in Canada?
Regarding socialism and communism, I am a bit of a stickler for the original definition, given that it is a rather precise one. Government controls the means of production in socialism. Communism is the eventual utopian society where government "melts away". Obviously, there has never been a truly communist state. There have been many socialist ones, such as the former USSR, and also Cuba. Other than maybe Cuba, most of them perverted the original intent of a socialist state, but that isn't surprising, given it's rather dubious premise.
Democratic Socialism as it is commonly called is a very different thing, with a very unfortunate and confusing name.
I know that "national socialism" isn't something people wanted to be associated with since WWII. If "democratic socialism" isn't simply the combination of democracy and socialism, then I must have slept through that one in civics. I don't know about civics class, but I read an interesting article today. It said the younger set likes Bernie because they associate socialism with IKEA and nice Scandinavian countries.
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 10, 2016 12:51:44 GMT -5
I know that "national socialism" isn't something people wanted to be associated with since WWII. If "democratic socialism" isn't simply the combination of democracy and socialism, then I must have slept through that one in civics. I don't know about civics class, but I read an interesting article today. It said the younger set likes Bernie because they associate socialism with IKEA and nice Scandinavian countries. i know that some of you will laugh at me when i say this, but that actually makes sense to me, and is kind of impressive. it also shows that the Cold War mentality doesn't exist for Gen X, Y, and Z.
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Post by b2r on Feb 10, 2016 12:54:03 GMT -5
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 10, 2016 16:22:55 GMT -5
Not that I'm aware of, either. However, that stuff doesn't impress me much. I happen to think most of those questions are careful plants, anyway. And as to the charge of "no specifics", actually, Trump has been very specific on a number of issues- and it's the specifics that really worry me. Trump's ideas on trade would be Smoot-Hawley II; Trump's notion of a wildly progressive income tax is way too moderate- it's tweaking an already broken system putting the pressure on the existing system's weak point: not nearly enough people with skin in the game- while simultaneously tapping the shrinking group of people that actually produce anything. Taking the oil in the middle east? Sounds like a plan to incite Armageddon if you ask me. it doesn't "impress" me, either. but i think it is a practical function of running for the office. or it should be. in other words, i think that Trump thinks he is above that, for some reason, and that kind of irks me. There's one thing I like about Trump: he ignores the "rules" and gets away with it. The "rules" are how the political class stay in control of everything. Sure, you can run for office- but if you break one of the rules, they get to declare you as DONE, FINISHED, IMPLODED! and Trump just refuses to succumb to it.
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 10, 2016 16:59:09 GMT -5
I know that "national socialism" isn't something people wanted to be associated with since WWII. If "democratic socialism" isn't simply the combination of democracy and socialism, then I must have slept through that one in civics. I don't know about civics class, but I read an interesting article today. It said the younger set likes Bernie because they associate socialism with IKEA and nice Scandinavian countries. You're not serious?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Feb 10, 2016 17:03:33 GMT -5
I don't know about civics class, but I read an interesting article today. It said the younger set likes Bernie because they associate socialism with IKEA and nice Scandinavian countries. i know that some of you will laugh at me when i say this, but that actually makes sense to me, and is kind of impressive. it also shows that the Cold War mentality doesn't exist for Gen X, Y, and Z. One of the things people don't realize is that those "nice Scandinavian countries" are in many respects less socialistic than America, and becoming less socialistic still as time passes.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Feb 10, 2016 17:03:55 GMT -5
I don't know about civics class, but I read an interesting article today. It said the younger set likes Bernie because they associate socialism with IKEA and nice Scandinavian countries. You're not serious? Read and be amazed!
Much of the current conversation about Sanders’s “democratic socialism” is predicated on whether Americans can look past this supposedly toxic label. But millennials love Sanders not despite his socialism, but because of it.
“Socialism” has never been a dirty word for the current cohort of youth, who either didn’t live through the Cold War or don’t remember it. We are more likely to associate socialism with prosperous, egalitarian, relatively well-functioning Scandinavian states — the kinds of places that produce awesome things like Ikea and “The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo” — than with autocrats who starve their people.
www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-double-standard-behind-why-millennials-love-bernie-sanders/2016/02/04/dce7b458-cb85-11e5-a7b2-5a2f824b02c9_story.html
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Post by Opti on Feb 10, 2016 17:05:50 GMT -5
i know that some of you will laugh at me when i say this, but that actually makes sense to me, and is kind of impressive. it also shows that the Cold War mentality doesn't exist for Gen X, Y, and Z. One of the things people don't realize is that those "nice Scandinavian countries" are in many respects less socialistic than America, and becoming less socialistic still as time passes. Are they? Denmark got very high marks in happiness per some studies and part of it I think has to do with the government making sure people are gainfully employed.
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 10, 2016 17:22:20 GMT -5
i know that some of you will laugh at me when i say this, but that actually makes sense to me, and is kind of impressive. it also shows that the Cold War mentality doesn't exist for Gen X, Y, and Z. One of the things people don't realize is that those "nice Scandinavian countries" are in many respects less socialistic than America, and becoming less socialistic still as time passes. in what respect?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 17:23:39 GMT -5
I don't know about civics class, but I read an interesting article today. It said the younger set likes Bernie because they associate socialism with IKEA and nice Scandinavian countries. You're not serious? Not just that. The right has been calling all Dems socialists for years now... Even moderates. So it should come as no surprise the term is losing its edge.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 10, 2016 17:23:46 GMT -5
it doesn't "impress" me, either. but i think it is a practical function of running for the office. or it should be. in other words, i think that Trump thinks he is above that, for some reason, and that kind of irks me. There's one thing I like about Trump: he ignores the "rules" and gets away with it. The "rules" are how the political class stay in control of everything. Sure, you can run for office- but if you break one of the rules, they get to declare you as DONE, FINISHED, IMPLODED! and Trump just refuses to succumb to it. he gets away with it because he is a protest candidate. it actually doesn't matter what he says. he is the equivalent of a Dumpster Fire.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 10, 2016 17:24:59 GMT -5
You're not serious? Not just that. The right has been calling all Dems socialists for years now... Even moderates. So it should come as no surprise the term is losing its edge. they call liberals socialists, too. and vice versa. do it all of the fucking time. drives me nuts. it is called dilution. and it makes communication with such people extremely difficult.
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Post by dondub on Feb 10, 2016 17:32:58 GMT -5
Not delusion?
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Post by b2r on Feb 10, 2016 20:50:41 GMT -5
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 10, 2016 23:07:47 GMT -5
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 10, 2016 23:09:18 GMT -5
There's one thing I like about Trump: he ignores the "rules" and gets away with it. The "rules" are how the political class stay in control of everything. Sure, you can run for office- but if you break one of the rules, they get to declare you as DONE, FINISHED, IMPLODED! and Trump just refuses to succumb to it. he gets away with it because he is a protest candidate. it actually doesn't matter what he says. he is the equivalent of a Dumpster Fire. New Hampshire is an open primary. We'll see how the Trumpster does in SC, and beyond. I'm starting to think we may not have to get used to it after all.
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Post by Opti on Feb 11, 2016 9:00:53 GMT -5
That was a little weird for me. Its common practice for many business men and corporations to give money to both sides, so ... that leaves the bank bailouts and eminent domain as values we wouldn't tolerate in our children. I'm disappointed, there are values we wouldn't tolerate in out children, but I wouldn't have picked any of this. It should have been some of the times he mocked people because he disagreed with them. The bully stuff. Mocking women, Mocking Cruz, refusing to be in two debates, i.e. taking his ball and going home.
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Post by Value Buy on Feb 11, 2016 9:06:07 GMT -5
Bernie's ads are really uplifting and about American citizens and inclusive. It is not about "I" or Bernie, but about us. Brilliant.
The opposing opposite from 2008 and Barack Obama ads, or Hillary's ads of this season.
Cruz's ads are attack ads.
Look at the PAC money totals for Cruz. Right there with Rubio who he calls "establishment"
Fourty million dollars.
And he calls himself an "outsider and non-establishment" ? He is mainstream right wing.
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Post by movingforward on Feb 11, 2016 9:08:02 GMT -5
Not just a little weird to me... really weird...
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Post by Opti on Feb 11, 2016 9:41:08 GMT -5
Yeah, but I didn't even have to play the video. Just looking at the caption with the doll was enough for me to smile and nod. It gets weirder the more I think about it. Three little boys playing with action figures and dolls. And supposedly the one that owns the dollhouse participates in destroying it, calling out eminent domain?
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 11, 2016 9:54:16 GMT -5
I thought it was going to include this gem:
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 11, 2016 12:11:41 GMT -5
he gets away with it because he is a protest candidate. it actually doesn't matter what he says. he is the equivalent of a Dumpster Fire. New Hampshire is an open primary. We'll see how the Trumpster does in SC, and beyond. I'm starting to think we may not have to get used to it after all. have you ever participated in a protest, Paul? have you ever participated in one where the police came and threatened to haul you off to jail? if so, did you leave or go to jail? what you are suggesting is that the GOP voter is willing to go to jail. i am not so sure about that.
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 11, 2016 12:22:59 GMT -5
New Hampshire is an open primary. We'll see how the Trumpster does in SC, and beyond. I'm starting to think we may not have to get used to it after all. have you ever participated in a protest, Paul? No. The problem with conservatives is we're busy working.have you ever participated in one where the police came and threatened to haul you off to jail? Not a protest per se, but I was part of an event where we were threatened with arrest. We declined to disperse and the police actually backed down.if so, did you leave or go to jail? Neitherwhat you are suggesting is that the GOP voter is willing to go to jail. I don't see how this relates, or the point you're making?i am not so sure about that.
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 11, 2016 12:23:53 GMT -5
As to your point, though- whatever it is- no, no one is willing to go to jail. They fondle us at the airport and people fly- so there's your answer about that.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 11, 2016 12:25:32 GMT -5
have you ever participated in a protest, Paul? No. The problem with conservatives is we're busy working.have you ever participated in one where the police came and threatened to haul you off to jail? Not a protest per se, but I was part of an event where we were threatened with arrest. We declined to disperse and the police actually backed down.if so, did you leave or go to jail? Neitherwhat you are suggesting is that the GOP voter is willing to go to jail. I don't see how this relates, or the point you're making?i am not so sure about that. really? let's see if anyone else does, because i thought it was a really beautiful analogy. everyone else: how does that analogy relate to voting for Dumpster Fire?
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Post by b2r on Feb 11, 2016 12:31:55 GMT -5
Anyone?
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Post by dondub on Feb 11, 2016 12:35:47 GMT -5
The most amazing aspect of the Trump on the disabled reporter is the history they had. The reporter had interviewed Trump many times over 20+ years and they were on a first name basis. You just never know when the curtain will part and the wizard will show his true self for all to see.
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Post by tallguy on Feb 11, 2016 12:39:26 GMT -5
really? let's see if anyone else does, because i thought it was a really beautiful analogy. everyone else: how does that analogy relate to voting for Dumpster Fire? Being willing to embrace a bad outcome in a blind stand on "principle" rather than to allow a clear moment of reflection on its actual effects lead one to a better choice?
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 11, 2016 12:42:01 GMT -5
really? let's see if anyone else does, because i thought it was a really beautiful analogy. everyone else: how does that analogy relate to voting for Dumpster Fire? Being willing to embrace a bad outcome in a blind stand on "principle" rather than to allow a clear moment of reflection on its actual effects lead one to a better choice? not quite. but close. it is kinda the "negative" of that: but i won't keep anyone guessing. it is one thing to protest when you think there will be no consequences. it is quite another to put your ass/party on the line for it.
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Feb 11, 2016 13:47:50 GMT -5
Being willing to embrace a bad outcome in a blind stand on "principle" rather than to allow a clear moment of reflection on its actual effects lead one to a better choice? not quite. but close. it is kinda the "negative" of that: but i won't keep anyone guessing. it is one thing to protest when you think there will be no consequences. it is quite another to put your ass/party on the line for it. Voters in BOTH parties seem to be willing to put the country at risk to express being pissed off. While we're speaking of "bets" people may or may not be willing to make- I would say that the establishment is betting the voters won't ultimately do that. The real caveat on the Democrat side is that there are truly no good viable options. You have a dangerous criminal and a socialist as the two most viable candidates. On the GOP side, there are plenty of alternatives to Trump who I see as, at best, a wildcard pick.
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