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Post by Value Buy on Jul 13, 2016 13:02:15 GMT -5
... Who was the last President who won the Presidency without Ohio? ... John Adams? Was Ohio a state back then? Are you giving me another history lesson? I know I should know the answer to my original question and even yours, but I cannot remember..........
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 13, 2016 13:08:11 GMT -5
Hillary's Swing State Collapse:Florida: Quinnipiac University shows Clinton's lead over Trump in Florida has evaporated. Trump now leads 42% - 39% in Florida. I realize that ordinarily a 3 point lead isn't much- margin of error, and it would not be inaccurate to say that the race is a dead heat- ordinarily. However, this is an 11 point swing. Things are not moving in the right direction for Team HRC. There are two things that ought to be near-panic inducing if you're working for Hillary: 1. Trump will announce his VP pick soon, and this will give him a boost. It's hard to think of a VP candidate that would alarm voters when compared to Trump. Virtually ANY pick he makes is likely to quell concerns. 2. We're not to the convention yet. There'll be a bounce for Trump from the convention. 3. That swing- 11 points. They'd better figure out which way the current is running- if it's still moving, a month from now Trump will be up 15 points. 4. The internals should strike terror into any Democrat: Ohio: 41 - 41 static Pennsylvania: 43 - 41 - Trump moved up 2 points, Hillary stalled at 41. Iowa: 44 -42 the stunner here is that Hillary had a 14 point lead in June.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 13, 2016 13:29:10 GMT -5
Was Ohio a state back then? Are you giving me another history lesson? I know I should know the answer to my original question and even yours, but I cannot remember.......... I actually looked up the answer to the question of who last won the presidency without winning Ohio. The answer to that is Kennedy. The article pointed out that Ohio became a state in 1803 and thus first had a say in the 1804 presidential election. Your question was specifically "Who was the last President who won the Presidency without Ohio?" Without Ohio ... what? John Adams is the answer to the question, "Who was the last President who won the Presidency without Ohio having a say in who was elected."
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 13, 2016 13:51:55 GMT -5
Flaming Trump? How would you be able to tell?
electiongraphs.com/2016ec/
Look at the Electoral College vote probability summaries. At this point, only if Trump does very well is he likely to win. Here's to Trump's moderate success...
Get used to "President Trump" I am seeing an Electoral vote that will be 284 to 293 total right now. I am in the Midwest and do not rely on left and right coast views to distort the actual mood of the country. Yes things will probably change two or three times both ways between now and November. Remember all news outlets claimed after the primaries, polls mean nothing until after the conventions, but all they push are each and every poll that has been released as the new Gospel Trump Best 266 272 Trump by 6 EVExpected 318 220 Clinton by 98 EV Clinton Best 384 154 Clinton by 230 EV The tipping point state is Ohio where Clinton is ahead by 4.3%. what you are seeing exceeds his best case according to that website- which i think is a fairly accurate assessment of the state of the race.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 13, 2016 13:56:02 GMT -5
Dream on. I grew up in the Midwest, even went to school in Indiana. You don't need to look at views per se, just the reality of where the population centers are. NYC remains the largest city in the country with LA second. Chicago is third.
Believe what you like, but all I will have to remember is the campaign of Trump, nothing more.
Trump does not need Illinois, NY or California to win. Let Hillary run the numbers up in those states. Who was the last President who won the Presidency without Ohio? The few swing states are the ones that name the winner. Nixon.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 13, 2016 13:58:05 GMT -5
I am concerned that ISIS is planning an "October surprise" aimed at getting Trump elected.
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 13, 2016 14:01:50 GMT -5
Trump does not need Illinois, NY or California to win. Let Hillary run the numbers up in those states. Who was the last President who won the Presidency without Ohio? The few swing states are the ones that name the winner. Nixon. He was the last to lose with Ohio.
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 13, 2016 14:02:50 GMT -5
He was the last to lose with Ohio. right. 1960. Nixon won Ohio and lost the election. so, Kennedy i guess is the right answer (he won that year). edit: Ohio liked Nixon a lot. he won the state (3) times in (3) presidential elections.
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Post by Opti on Jul 13, 2016 14:05:43 GMT -5
I am concerned that ISIS is planning an "October surprise" aimed at getting Trump elected. Why would ISIS want either of them elected?
I think Trump's use as a recruiter would fade in the unlikely event he gets elected.
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 13, 2016 14:09:37 GMT -5
I am concerned that ISIS is planning an "October surprise" aimed at getting Trump elected. Why would ISIS want either of them elected?
I think Trump's use as a recruiter would fade in the unlikely event he gets elected.
They will play Trump like a fiddle.
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 13, 2016 14:11:11 GMT -5
Why would ISIS want either of them elected?
I think Trump's use as a recruiter would fade in the unlikely event he gets elected.
They will play Trump like a fiddle. they already are. what they want is a holy war and relevance. Trump brings them both.
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Post by Opti on Jul 13, 2016 14:11:28 GMT -5
Hillary's Swing State Collapse:Florida: Quinnipiac University shows Clinton's lead over Trump in Florida has evaporated. Trump now leads 42% - 39% in Florida. I realize that ordinarily a 3 point lead isn't much- margin of error, and it would not be inaccurate to say that the race is a dead heat- ordinarily. However, this is an 11 point swing. Things are not moving in the right direction for Team HRC. There are two things that ought to be near-panic inducing if you're working for Hillary: 1. Trump will announce his VP pick soon, and this will give him a boost. It's hard to think of a VP candidate that would alarm voters when compared to Trump. Virtually ANY pick he makes is likely to quell concerns. It's easy to screw up, ask McCain.
2. We're not to the convention yet. There'll be a bounce for Trump from the convention. 3. That swing- 11 points. They'd better figure out which way the current is running- if it's still moving, a month from now Trump will be up 15 points. 4. The internals should strike terror into any Democrat: Why? Because there's a short term reaction to current news? I expect Trump to do something in the next couple months to make him newsworthy in the wrong way.Ohio: 41 - 41 static Pennsylvania: 43 - 41 - Trump moved up 2 points, Hillary stalled at 41. Iowa: 44 -42 the stunner here is that Hillary had a 14 point lead in June. ETA: Iowa - 6 electoral votes, PA usually republican, OH - TBD.
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 13, 2016 14:13:34 GMT -5
Hillary's Swing State Collapse:Florida: Quinnipiac University shows Clinton's lead over Trump in Florida has evaporated. Trump now leads 42% - 39% in Florida. I realize that ordinarily a 3 point lead isn't much- margin of error, and it would not be inaccurate to say that the race is a dead heat- ordinarily. However, this is an 11 point swing. Things are not moving in the right direction for Team HRC. There are two things that ought to be near-panic inducing if you're working for Hillary: 1. Trump will announce his VP pick soon, and this will give him a boost. It's hard to think of a VP candidate that would alarm voters when compared to Trump. Virtually ANY pick he makes is likely to quell concerns. It's easy to screw up, ask McCain.
2. We're not to the convention yet. There'll be a bounce for Trump from the convention. 3. That swing- 11 points. They'd better figure out which way the current is running- if it's still moving, a month from now Trump will be up 15 points. 4. The internals should strike terror into any Democrat: Why? Because there's a short term reaction to current news? I expect Trump to do something in the next couple months to make him newsworthy in the wrong way.Ohio: 41 - 41 static Pennsylvania: 43 - 41 - Trump moved up 2 points, Hillary stalled at 41. Iowa: 44 -42 the stunner here is that Hillary had a 14 point lead in June. it is actually quite rare to get much of a gain from the VP pick. i think that PA is the most interesting state out there right now. watching it closely. HC is still the heavy favourite.
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 13, 2016 14:19:37 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 14:27:12 GMT -5
the media ENSURED his victory. the media loves Trump. i have no idea what you are talking about. The media can't stop covering Mr. Trump. They don't "love him" by a longshot. You don't have to love the goose that lays the golden eggs.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2016 14:29:37 GMT -5
He's going to win. With the NRA helping all the way !
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Post by happyhoix on Jul 13, 2016 14:31:01 GMT -5
When Trump wins this fall, there are going to be some really bad feelings on this board Most of us won't be too happy no matter who wins.
Kind of like having to chose whether you want to eat liver and onions or pickled beets. You don't really want either, one tastes like ass and the other leaves your mouth purple, but you're going to end up having to choke down one of them.
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 13, 2016 14:34:58 GMT -5
The media can't stop covering Mr. Trump. They don't "love him" by a longshot. You don't have to love the goose that lays the golden eggs. as a businessman, i beg to differ. you pretty much DO have to love that.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jul 13, 2016 14:36:09 GMT -5
I am concerned that ISIS is planning an "October surprise" aimed at getting Trump elected. I am too, but not sure ISIS has the ability to pull off such a dramatic strike.
They've been chased back in Syria, losing ground rapidly, latest dictates from the top have been warning that their caliphate may not last much longer.
Not that they wouldn't love to do something spectacular. Just not sure they're able to.
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Post by happyhoix on Jul 13, 2016 14:42:54 GMT -5
Hillary's Swing State Collapse:Florida: Quinnipiac University shows Clinton's lead over Trump in Florida has evaporated. Trump now leads 42% - 39% in Florida. I realize that ordinarily a 3 point lead isn't much- margin of error, and it would not be inaccurate to say that the race is a dead heat- ordinarily. However, this is an 11 point swing. Things are not moving in the right direction for Team HRC. There are two things that ought to be near-panic inducing if you're working for Hillary: 1. Trump will announce his VP pick soon, and this will give him a boost. It's hard to think of a VP candidate that would alarm voters when compared to Trump. Virtually ANY pick he makes is likely to quell concerns. 2. We're not to the convention yet. There'll be a bounce for Trump from the convention.3. That swing- 11 points. They'd better figure out which way the current is running- if it's still moving, a month from now Trump will be up 15 points. 4. The internals should strike terror into any Democrat: Ohio: 41 - 41 static Pennsylvania: 43 - 41 - Trump moved up 2 points, Hillary stalled at 41. Iowa: 44 -42 the stunner here is that Hillary had a 14 point lead in June. Not sure there will be.
Trump has a famously small campaign staff that has proven itself not capable of managing the campaign very well. If the convention falls on it's face from sheer incompetence and unscripted foot-in-the-mouth moments, it will prove, to some voters, that Trump is not capable of running the country.
Additionally, there has been big talk from certain groups (like the KKK) that they will show up, armed and ready, in support of Trump, and big talk from opposition groups that they will also show up, armed and ready to defend themselves from the Trump supporters. I know guns won't be allowed inside the convention hall, but if things go south outside the convention hall, especially if the police or bystanders get injured as a result, some voters may decide Trump is too polarizing and will only tip the country into more civil unrest should he get elected.
I know he presents himself as the law and order candidate, but if lawlessness and injuries swirl in his wake, that title won't stick for any but his most hard core fans (who will see Trump as the poor victim of hostile attacks).
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 13, 2016 14:59:05 GMT -5
I am concerned that ISIS is planning an "October surprise" aimed at getting Trump elected. I am too, but not sure ISIS has the ability to pull off such a dramatic strike.
They've been chased back in Syria, losing ground rapidly, latest dictates from the top have been warning that their caliphate may not last much longer.
Not that they wouldn't love to do something spectacular. Just not sure they're able to.
I think the election is going to be close. Based on that, I don't think "spectacular" would be necessary. It would just have to be "enough".
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 13, 2016 15:38:46 GMT -5
so, it only took a few hours for NBC/WJ/Marist to come out with a survey that completely contradicted Quinnipiac's numbers in PA, and IA. they CONFIRMED the result in OH, where Clinton has fallen into a tie with Trump. they did not publish results for FL, so that one stands for now. they surveyed CO, however, and show Clinton with something like 13% lead (again, unconfirmed). Quinnipiac shows steady progress for Trump in battleground states. interestingly, Marist shows just the opposite. so, those polls are DIVERGING. that, obviously, can't continue. it is too bad Rasmussen sucks so bad, or we could use them for a confirming result. but we can't. edit: incidentally, the IA poll that had Clinton up 14% was done by Loras College. i seem to remember them getting it really wrong in 2012, as well. they are a minor pollster, a local one, and have a poor track record. my money is more on Marist and Quinnipiac, both of whom show a fairly narrow margin in IA (within polling error).
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Post by verrip1 on Jul 13, 2016 15:56:55 GMT -5
so, it only took a few hours for NBC/WJ/Marist to come out with a survey that completely contradicted Quinnipiac's numbers in PA, and IA. they CONFIRMED the result in OH, where Clinton has fallen into a tie with Trump. they did not publish results for FL, so that one stands for now. they surveyed CO, however, and show Clinton with something like 13% lead (again, unconfirmed). Quinnipiac shows steady progress for Trump in battleground states. interestingly, Marist shows just the opposite. so, those polls are DIVERGING. that, obviously, can't continue. it is too bad Rasmussen sucks so bad, or we could use them for a confirming result. but we can't. Careful, you're using the majestic plural. Just because no one apparently cares to debate your opinion of Rasmussen, that does not mean that everybody agrees with you. [please note that this is a contextual comment, not a confrontational comment, OK?]
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 13, 2016 16:05:32 GMT -5
so, it only took a few hours for NBC/WJ/Marist to come out with a survey that completely contradicted Quinnipiac's numbers in PA, and IA. they CONFIRMED the result in OH, where Clinton has fallen into a tie with Trump. they did not publish results for FL, so that one stands for now. they surveyed CO, however, and show Clinton with something like 13% lead (again, unconfirmed). Quinnipiac shows steady progress for Trump in battleground states. interestingly, Marist shows just the opposite. so, those polls are DIVERGING. that, obviously, can't continue. it is too bad Rasmussen sucks so bad, or we could use them for a confirming result. but we can't. Careful, you're using the majestic plural. why be careful? is that what we expect? Just because no one apparently cares to debate your opinion of Rasmussen, that does not mean that everybody agrees with you. no, it only means that those that choose to debate have little company. [please note that this is a contextual comment, not a confrontational comment, OK?] noted.
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 13, 2016 16:08:35 GMT -5
it is actually quite rare to get much of a gain from the VP pick. i think that PA is the most interesting state out there right now. watching it closely. HC is still the heavy favourite. Jeb! was the favorite once upon a time. And the campaign which the dumpster fire that is the Clinton campaign most resembles. $100's of millions in ads have been run against Trump, and she isn't just slipping- he is gaining. Trump has spent $55 million total so far. Clinton isn't likable, she is not perceived as honest and trustworthy-- and her already problematic numbers in that area are getting worse, and there's a sizable #NeverHillary movement within the Democratic Party. Of course the Democratic Party media isn't going to report on that- but it is substantially larger and more powerful than it's mostly party hack counterpart in the GOP.
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Post by Opti on Jul 13, 2016 16:13:23 GMT -5
it is actually quite rare to get much of a gain from the VP pick. i think that PA is the most interesting state out there right now. watching it closely. HC is still the heavy favourite. Jeb! was the favorite once upon a time. And the campaign which the dumpster fire that is the Clinton campaign most resembles. $100's of millions in ads have been run against Trump, and she isn't just slipping- he is gaining. Trump has spent $55 million total so far. Clinton isn't likable, she is not perceived as honest and trustworthy-- and her already problematic numbers in that area are getting worse, and there's a sizable #NeverHillary movement within the democratic party. Of course the democratic party media isn't going to report on that- but it is substantially larger and more powerful than it's mostly party hack counterpart in the GOP. Jeb was a favorite before the race started, so I'm not sure why you are even bringing him up. Clinton is winning her party's nomination. Not sure why you consider that failing, but whatever. And IMO he'll fail, just when he wants to - at the end of the campaign when he's wrung out his maximum advertising for his businesses.
Lie all you want, but Clinton will have more of her party behind her than Trump will of his. Now he really doesn't care about that, but I don't see his luck holding out this round. But I'm sure he'll keep selling the Trump brand to anyone who will listen.
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 13, 2016 16:13:42 GMT -5
Hillary's Swing State Collapse:Florida: Quinnipiac University shows Clinton's lead over Trump in Florida has evaporated. Trump now leads 42% - 39% in Florida. I realize that ordinarily a 3 point lead isn't much- margin of error, and it would not be inaccurate to say that the race is a dead heat- ordinarily. However, this is an 11 point swing. Things are not moving in the right direction for Team HRC. There are two things that ought to be near-panic inducing if you're working for Hillary: 1. Trump will announce his VP pick soon, and this will give him a boost. It's hard to think of a VP candidate that would alarm voters when compared to Trump. Virtually ANY pick he makes is likely to quell concerns. 2. We're not to the convention yet. There'll be a bounce for Trump from the convention.3. That swing- 11 points. They'd better figure out which way the current is running- if it's still moving, a month from now Trump will be up 15 points. 4. The internals should strike terror into any Democrat: Ohio: 41 - 41 static Pennsylvania: 43 - 41 - Trump moved up 2 points, Hillary stalled at 41. Iowa: 44 -42 the stunner here is that Hillary had a 14 point lead in June. Not sure there will be.
Trump has a famously small campaign staff that has proven itself not capable of managing the campaign very well. If the convention falls on it's face from sheer incompetence and unscripted foot-in-the-mouth moments, it will prove, to some voters, that Trump is not capable of running the country.
Additionally, there has been big talk from certain groups (like the KKK) that they will show up, armed and ready, in support of Trump, and big talk from opposition groups that they will also show up, armed and ready to defend themselves from the Trump supporters. I know guns won't be allowed inside the convention hall, but if things go south outside the convention hall, especially if the police or bystanders get injured as a result, some voters may decide Trump is too polarizing and will only tip the country into more civil unrest should he get elected.
I know he presents himself as the law and order candidate, but if lawlessness and injuries swirl in his wake, that title won't stick for any but his most hard core fans (who will see Trump as the poor victim of hostile attacks).
Correction. Trump presented himself as LAW THE AND ORDER candidate.
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Post by Value Buy on Jul 13, 2016 16:14:34 GMT -5
Get used to "President Trump" I am seeing an Electoral vote that will be 284 to 293 total right now. I am in the Midwest and do not rely on left and right coast views to distort the actual mood of the country. Yes things will probably change two or three times both ways between now and November. Remember all news outlets claimed after the primaries, polls mean nothing until after the conventions, but all they push are each and every poll that has been released as the new Gospel Trump Best 266 272 Trump by 6 EVExpected 318 220 Clinton by 98 EV Clinton Best 384 154 Clinton by 230 EV The tipping point state is Ohio where Clinton is ahead by 4.3%. what you are seeing exceeds his best case according to that website- which i think is a fairly accurate assessment of the state of the race. Remember when Trump's popularity was at one % a year ago? 5%? 10%? 25%? 50%? He likes to come from behind. He is only getting started.
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Post by weltschmerz on Jul 13, 2016 16:15:55 GMT -5
When Trump wins this fall, there are going to be some really bad feelings on this board Most of us won't be too happy no matter who wins.
Kind of like having to chose whether you want to eat liver and onions or pickled beets. You don't really want either, one tastes like ass and the other leaves your mouth purple, but you're going to end up having to choke down one of them.
Hey! I like liver and onions AND pickled beets!
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Post by Opti on Jul 13, 2016 16:16:51 GMT -5
Most of us won't be too happy no matter who wins.
Kind of like having to chose whether you want to eat liver and onions or pickled beets. You don't really want either, one tastes like ass and the other leaves your mouth purple, but you're going to end up having to choke down one of them.
Hat! I like liver and onions AND pickled beets! I like good liver and onions. I'm happy to skip the beets though.
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