zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 25, 2015 22:17:26 GMT -5
Cars are built better. I'd like to see statistics whether all this makes a difference or not. I get seat belts and I even agree with in back seat to a certain age but freaking booster seats? I get it if you want to put your child in so they can see better out the window but pass a law requiring it? Good grief.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 22:19:09 GMT -5
Not to see out the window... To better position them in their safety devices.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 22:26:27 GMT -5
I'm with zib. If they're tall enough that the seatbelt won't strangle them, and cars are supposed to be so much safer these days, why the booster seats?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 22:30:46 GMT -5
Well, my son is 5 years and 47 inches tall and he definitely isn't tall enough to just sit in a seat. The seatbelt goes right across his throat. I can't find a link to the entire study, just the abstract from this study, but it shows injury reduced 45% for children ages 4-8 in a booster rather than just a seatbelt. Pediatrics. 2009 Nov;124(5):1281-6. doi: 10.1542/peds.2009-0908. Epub 2009 Oct 19. Effectiveness of belt positioning booster seats: an updated assessment. Arbogast KB1, Jermakian JS, Kallan MJ, Durbin DR. Author information Abstract OBJECTIVE: The objective of this study was to provide an updated estimate of the effectiveness of belt-positioning booster (BPB) seats compared with seat belts alone in reducing the risk for injury for children aged 4 to 8 years. METHODS: Data were collected from a longitudinal study of children who were involved in crashes in 16 states and the District of Columbia from December 1, 1998, to November 30, 2007, with data collected via insurance claims records and a validated telephone survey. The study sample included children who were aged 4 to 8 years, seated in the rear rows of the vehicle, and restrained by either a seat belt or a BPB seat. Multivariable logistic regression was used to determine the odds of injury for those in BPB seats versus those in seat belts. Effects of crash direction and booster seat type were also explored. RESULTS: Complete interview data were obtained on 7151 children in 6591 crashes representing an estimated 120646 children in 116503 crashes in the study population. The adjusted relative risk for injury to children in BPB seats compared with those in seat belts was 0.55. CONCLUSIONS: This study reconfirms previous reports that BPB seats reduce the risk for injury in children aged 4 through 8 years. On the basis of these analyses, parents, pediatricians, and health educators should continue to recommend as best practice the use of BPB seats once a child outgrows a harness-based child restraint until he or she is at least 8 years of age. PMID: 19841126 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19841126
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 22:39:02 GMT -5
Right, I understand the need for one when the child is too short for the seatbelt to go across their chest instead of their throat. I guess they needed to pass a law and pick an age where most kids over that age would be tall enough because some parents aren't smart enough to know that the seatbelt across the throat is a bad idea.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 22:43:32 GMT -5
But my son is in the 97th percentile for height for his age. His height is average for a 7 year old.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jul 25, 2015 23:08:45 GMT -5
My front seat belts are adjustable. I think that is standard now? Mine have been for years but only between one or two inches so fit men of different heights but still too high for women. I am over 5'1" and the tallest of several generations of women and they still are not adjustable to fit me or any women in my family most aren't 5 feet tall. My guess is they were designed and tested for people over 5'5" like most things they have too many tall people designing for everyone. Have you seen the height of the peep holes in doors? They should have designed them for women and children but they are about at the top of my head so have to stand on tip toes to try to see out or jump.
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bobosensei
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Post by bobosensei on Jul 26, 2015 2:48:57 GMT -5
Even though this isn't the law, many of my friends are constantly posting articles about keeping the kid rear facing until 4. I think in Sweden they stay rear facing until 5. In practice none of these friends kids are older than 18 months-2 years so no idea if they will actually rear face until then if the kid throws fits about it, and my friends with kids that are 3-4 make it seem like the kids wouldn't take to it because they refuse to flip them back around.
And Carl, they do make car seats small enough to fit 3 across in a small vehicle. I don't know how wide a big mini is, but it would at least fit 2 small car seats at once, maybe also with a booster back there. As far as trunk space, you have to consider whether a giant stroller is necessary with your lifestyle. I hate them in tight spaces. At least in Europe people generally leave them outside in certain places and in others they just aren't allowed. A wrap or backpack seems much easier to deal with especially on public transportation, and when the kids are able to walk they usually want to.
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nutty
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Post by nutty on Jul 26, 2015 8:02:16 GMT -5
Bebe is rear facing, DD is quite militant about that. At what age are they supposed to be out of car seats or is it a weight thing?
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Jul 26, 2015 8:11:58 GMT -5
Given that it's been mentioned several times earlier in the thread, you could try just reading...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 8:29:33 GMT -5
I also have friends who are always posting about rear facing till 5. The very idea makes me want to vomit, but I guess non of their kids get car sick...
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 26, 2015 8:37:56 GMT -5
I also have friends who are always posting about rear facing till 5. The very idea makes me want to vomit, but I guess non of their kids get car sick... I wonder what kind of car can comfortably rear face a 4 year old? That doesn't even seem possible.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 26, 2015 8:42:10 GMT -5
My kids were big and they got way to big to be rear facing after 1. They were smushed in there.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Jul 26, 2015 8:50:29 GMT -5
I also have friends who are always posting about rear facing till 5. The very idea makes me want to vomit, but I guess non of their kids get car sick... I wonder what kind of car can comfortably rear face a 4 year old? That doesn't even seem possible. I don't think they care if the kid is comfortable.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jul 26, 2015 14:32:30 GMT -5
I also have friends who are always posting about rear facing till 5. The very idea makes me want to vomit, but I guess non of their kids get car sick... I wonder what kind of car can comfortably rear face a 4 year old? That doesn't even seem possible. Wouldn't they just about take their own heads of with their knees in a serious accident. FWIW, my kids were in car seats before they were mandatory but front facing around 1yo because they wer very uncomfortable rear-facing by then
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on Jul 26, 2015 15:14:07 GMT -5
Babies take an insane amount of Stuff. I'd try to keep the Kia until the as-yet hypothetical kid is a year old. How much does it cost you to own (insurance, registration?) If you keep it as a backup car for when you need an extra car or want to transport big things, you could go down to fairly minimal insurance coverage. I'd also get another quote from an independent mechanic on the steering rack leak from your other thread--a dealership is almost never the place to get a reliable opinion or a reasonable quote for non-warranty service. I always laughed at people that had one seven-pound baby and then needed to buy a giant SUV for it. After having my own, I have a lot more sympathy (We have however managed with a Focus station wagon...but it's got cargo space comparable to at least a mid-size SUV and I've often wished the rear seat was a couple of inches wider.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 15:20:17 GMT -5
My car is a 2-door and it's not baby/toddler friendly at all. An infant seat is not too much of a hassle, but the first problem with the bigger seat is you have to wrestle to get it through to the back seat and practically climb in the car to secure it. Then, it has to be behind the passenger seat or I have to drive all cramped up. Once it's in, the only way to get a child in it rear-facing is to squeeze into the backseat yourself from the other side of the car. Just when getting my grandson into his carseat got a little easier for me to do by myself, DD had another baby. Now there are 2 carseats involved, so one of them has to go behind the driver's seat. The middle is unstable because of the hump in the seat. Needless to say, I don't run around with both my Grandkids often without their Mom going too. Just getting everybody in the car the first time wears me out, never mind getting them back out and doing it all over again later. But my trunk is pretty roomy. A big stroller fits easily with room to spare.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jul 26, 2015 15:39:03 GMT -5
I also have friends who are always posting about rear facing till 5. The very idea makes me want to vomit, but I guess non of their kids get car sick... The AAP (and my drs) really are stressing rear facing until age 2, now. We had to turn #3 around at 18 months. Something about the sun hitting her eyes when she rear-facing. Out of all the kids, she was the one that needed it the most. She wasn't 20lbs until she hit a year. My other kids were 20 lbs at 4 months. We'll likely keep her in a 5 point harness after age 4, rather than putting her in a booster, simply due to her size.
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Jul 26, 2015 17:06:06 GMT -5
My current thinking is that the obsession with safety strongly correlates with the lower birth rate - we are having so few children that each child has great value - maybe too much. Hence our tendency to over-protect children to the point where they are practically bubble wrapped.
As an only child of the 1960's, average families were much larger - as an adult my mother shared with me the pressure they received when they experienced secondary infertility. I always felt loved and wanted - to the point it pissed me off as a teen (LOL) - but there is more attention and focus as an only along with more of an absence of benign neglect which I think can be invaluable to a child. YMMV.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 26, 2015 19:04:32 GMT -5
My current thinking is that the obsession with safety strongly correlates with the lower birth rate - we are having so few children that each child has great value - maybe too much. Hence our tendency to over-protect children to the point where they are practically bubble wrapped.
As an only child of the 1960's, average families were much larger - as an adult my mother shared with me the pressure they received when they experienced secondary infertility. I always felt loved and wanted - to the point it pissed me off as a teen (LOL) - but there is more attention and focus as an only along with more of an absence of benign neglect which I think can be invaluable to a child. YMMV. What an interesting idea!!
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jul 26, 2015 19:08:01 GMT -5
My current thinking is that the obsession with safety strongly correlates with the lower birth rate - we are having so few children that each child has great value - maybe too much. Hence our tendency to over-protect children to the point where they are practically bubble wrapped. As an only child of the 1960's, average families were much larger - as an adult my mother shared with me the pressure they received when they experienced secondary infertility. I always felt loved and wanted - to the point it pissed me off as a teen (LOL) - but there is more attention and focus as an only along with more of an absence of benign neglect which I think can be invaluable to a child. YMMV. Great... We are fucked no matter what we do!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 19:35:17 GMT -5
My current thinking is that the obsession with safety strongly correlates with the lower birth rate - we are having so few children that each child has great value - maybe too much. Hence our tendency to over-protect children to the point where they are practically bubble wrapped. As an only child of the 1960's, average families were much larger - as an adult my mother shared with me the pressure they received when they experienced secondary infertility. I always felt loved and wanted - to the point it pissed me off as a teen (LOL) - but there is more attention and focus as an only along with more of an absence of benign neglect which I think can be invaluable to a child. YMMV. Great... We are fucked no matter what we do! I think I may have accidentally liked this post, trying to quote it. I can't tell on my tablet. But are you ok Carl?
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Jul 27, 2015 1:17:34 GMT -5
My current thinking is that the obsession with safety strongly correlates with the lower birth rate - we are having so few children that each child has great value - maybe too much. Hence our tendency to over-protect children to the point where they are practically bubble wrapped. As an only child of the 1960's, average families were much larger - as an adult my mother shared with me the pressure they received when they experienced secondary infertility. I always felt loved and wanted - to the point it pissed me off as a teen (LOL) - but there is more attention and focus as an only along with more of an absence of benign neglect which I think can be invaluable to a child. YMMV. Great... We are fucked no matter what we do! Basically, yeah! The first rule of parenthood, even life, is you can't win for losing. On on a serious note, I am so sorry that you and your DW are going through this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 1:28:14 GMT -5
I'm with zib. If they're tall enough that the seatbelt won't strangle them, and cars are supposed to be so much safer these days, why the booster seats? Lobbyists interfering with my right to manage my kids and their safety. Would be interesting to see sales of boosters pre-law & post-law per state. Its all about the buck. PS - Said by a grand parent that still has the 6 year old in a 5 point harness seat. She's petite, she needs the extra protection. Seat belt & booster is not sufficient for her small frame. She'd ricochet around like a rag doll if there was ever an accident if she was in a booster. I do need to figure out what the current law is on front passenger seat for kids. A cop gave my daughter grief for having one of the kids in a booster in the front seat due to airbag concern. Ummm, the car has automatic shutoff of airbag if you are underweight. It was not a big car, so kids were 2 in the back and one in front passenger (oldest). I don't think he was right to hassle her. However, she didn't seem to know about the airbag shutoff, even though it is lit up on the front panel of the car to tell you the airbag is off . . . sigh.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jul 27, 2015 7:25:40 GMT -5
Great... We are fucked no matter what we do! I think I may have accidentally liked this post, trying to quote it. I can't tell on my tablet. But are you ok Carl? Yes why
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jul 27, 2015 7:29:22 GMT -5
Basically, yeah! The first rule of parenthood, even life, is you can't win for losing.  Figured as much: Childless - you are a selfish bastard, missing out on the greatest joy of life. 1 kid - spoiled brat, too much attention, self centered 2 kids - sibling rivalry and they will end up hating each other. You will drive yourself crazy trying to be fair. 3 kids - you are outnumbered and have to worry about the middle child syndrome and the "baby" of the family syndrome 4 kids and more - you are just crazy and screwed anyway you put it!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 7:34:47 GMT -5
I think I may have accidentally liked this post, trying to quote it. I can't tell on my tablet. But are you ok Carl? Yes why I didn't know if that post meant you were really frustrated or what. I'm glad you're ok.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 27, 2015 7:40:53 GMT -5
I'm with zib. If they're tall enough that the seatbelt won't strangle them, and cars are supposed to be so much safer these days, why the booster seats? Lobbyists interfering with my right to manage my kids and their safety. Would be interesting to see sales of boosters pre-law & post-law per state. Its all about the buck. PS - Said by a grand parent that still has the 6 year old in a 5 point harness seat. She's petite, she needs the extra protection. Seat belt & booster is not sufficient for her small frame. She'd ricochet around like a rag doll if there was ever an accident if she was in a booster. I do need to figure out what the current law is on front passenger seat for kids. A cop gave my daughter grief for having one of the kids in a booster in the front seat due to airbag concern. Ummm, the car has automatic shutoff of airbag if you are underweight. It was not a big car, so kids were 2 in the back and one in front passenger (oldest). I don't think he was right to hassle her. However, she didn't seem to know about the airbag shutoff, even though it is lit up on the front panel of the car to tell you the airbag is off . . . sigh. You should be able to look up the law. In my state, once you are forward facing it is recommended they seat in the back, but isn't required by law. The biggest concern about the front seat is the airbag, so absolutely make sure that is off. That will kill a kid. The other concern is hitting the dash with their head, so I would put the seat as far back as it goes. If you've got those two things covered, then a front seat is basically almost as safe as a back for a kid. I sit DS2 in the front and never been hassled by cops. I am pretty sure I get dirty looks from other parents who don't know the law nor understand the reasoning for the law.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Jul 27, 2015 7:42:34 GMT -5
I didn't know if that post meant you were really frustrated or what. I'm glad you're ok. I am definitely losing my marbles but that is nothing new
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 7:52:04 GMT -5
I didn't know if that post meant you were really frustrated or what. I'm glad you're ok. I am definitely losing my marbles but that is nothing new Lol, that happens. Then you put yourself back together again. I've lost a few marbles before. They usually come back.
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