siding a house - options

[garion2003]

Just throwing this out there for those who have siding, thought about siding, or want siding for their house.

The house in question is a 2 family fairly modest home (built c. 1880) in New England, so lots of heat and cold. The original siding is wooden clapboards with some replacement over the years (and even those are peeling and cupping).

I hate the look of vinyl siding, and although it will make the house look 'newer' it will still leave all those old and perhaps damaged/rotting etc boards under there.

I really don't want to have it replaced in wood, since it will just wear over time. I would like something as worry free as possible.

After doing a bit of research I found fiber cement - sort of a composite that looks good and will seem to hold up. We had someone come by to give an estimate, he claims that the fiber cement product (Hardie brand) was not much more expensive than higher end vinyl, and would last longer, not rot, etc. Did get a quote from a local place: $27,000 for the main house and $9,000 for fascia/soffit/rake boards and new framing to accommodate same.

Naturally I'll get other quotes and even check out vinyl, I was just wondering what experience people had with various siding products, pros and cons, etc.

[Deleted]

Do you have a guest house? ... Natural stone is the way to go! I'm kidding, maybe. PM me if you want more info!

[mollyanna58]

That sounds more expensive than vinyl, but it might look a lot better. 

[MarleyKeezy78]

We have a higher end vinyl and shake on our house and I like it fine, but if we would have been able to afford it I would have gone with the cement composite. If you can swing it I would go with that.

[Shooby]

I hate vinyl. I like aluminum. Holds up and you can paint it. Which may or may not be a drawback. But, I think vinyl looks like crap over time.

[MarleyKeezy78]

This is the back of our house. The vinyl isn't terrible. Just for reference.

[garion2003]

Jul 24, 2015 14:27:56 GMT -5 MarleyKeezy78 said:

This is the back of our house. The vinyl isn't terrible. Just for reference.

That does look good. What was there before? Was it in good condition? Does vinyl always go over the existing house?

[kittensaver]

Since you are working with a very old house - - does your city/town/county have a local historical society or local historic preservation unit (or specialist) inside the permit division of your building department? They can help you "walk through" the pros and cons of modern materials and how to work with them to achieve or maintain an appropriate "look."

And FWIW, I would NOT put new materials over old or decaying ones. I would remove the old ones first - otherwise they will just continue to rot/decay and cause further damage. But that's just me. YMMV.

[mollyanna58]

My house was about 50 years old when I put up vinyl siding over the existing clapboard.  The wood was not rotting.  I figure it's like having more insulation.

[garion2003]

Jul 24, 2015 15:16:55 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

Since you are working with a very old house - - does your city/town/county have a local historical society or local historic preservation unit (or specialist) inside the permit division of your building department? They can help you "walk through" the pros and cons of modern materials and how to work with them to achieve or maintain an appropriate "look."

And FWIW, I would NOT put new materials over old or decaying ones. I would remove the old ones first - otherwise they will just continue to rot/decay and cause further damage. But that's just me. YMMV.

I think there may be some kind of historical commission, but the house isn't that special. It's a small "folk Victorian" in my expert opinion (Google) - not very ornate, not fancy scroll work, just some nice columns on the front porch and some gingerbread shingling. All of the other homes in the neighborhood have been "modernized" and lost most of the unique features.

What I like about the fiber cement proposal is that it calls for removal of all existing siding and underlayment. They inspect what's left (whatever that is called) and make repairs as needed (up to 64 sq feet included, over that is an extra cost). Then they completely wrap and tape the exterior before installing the new siding.

[MarleyKeezy78]

It's a 1923 craftsmen and the original wood siding was still on, in fair shape but didn't want to have to keep painting. The siding went right over it.

[tskeeter]

Garion, some thoughts:

Hardie Plankcan be purchased in a variety of factory applied colors (can also be painted the color of your choice).  Factory, baked on, finish extends the life of the finish and probaly makes the job less expensive than installing wood clapboards and painting them.  More damage resistant than other sidings.  Slower and more expensive to apply than some other types of siding.  Hand driving nails to hang siding is not recommended.

Wood needs to be painted about every 6 - 10 years (color of your choice) and is subject to rot and wear over time.  Most wood sidings are fairly damage resistant.  Not normally broken or dented by hail, baseballs, or rambuctious kids.

Aluminum siding expands and contracts more than you would think.  About 1/2 inch or so on our house in Chicago.  Kind of clicks and makes other noises as it expands and contracts.  After a few years, the daily movement makes shiney spots at many joints.  Subject to denting.  Also subject to damage (peeling off) in very high winds.  Usually only factory supplied colors.

Vinyl siding also moves, but since the color is all the way through the material, it doesn't develop shiney spots, like aluminum.  Resistant to denting, but may shatter if struck during very cold weather or if stuck with a lot of force.  Also subject to damage during very high winds.  Usually only factory supplied colors.

All siding options are fairly easily repairable, but wood and Hardie Plank can be painted so that the repair matches.  Fading, chalking, and finish wear is likely to make repairs to aluminum and vinyl siding pretty visible as repairs. 

[teen persuasion]

Our old house has vinyl over the existing clapboard, and I hate it.  I'd like to do the Hardie Plank to replace it, at some point.

When some previous owner had the vinyl installed, they put particle board over the clapboard (probably for a flat surface) and then the vinyl.  The build-up of surfaces has changed the look of things, especially the profiles around windows and doors, the trim looks sunken instead of proud.  I also don't like the look of how edges are finished with J channel.

Vinyl is susceptible to heat: DH had the grill too close to the garage, and a portion of the siding is slightly wavy now.

The vinyl is only loosely attached to the house, to allow for movement due to expansion and contraction, and sections can come loose.  They are easily reclipped to adjacent sections with a tool, but they can flap in the wind, and small critters like chipmunks can get behind them, using it as a highway.  The ease of installation is probably vinyl's best selling point after no more painting.

When I lived in a historic section of the city, I remember one house where they removed the nondescript vinyl siding.  Underneath was a beautiful fish scale shingle design.  Yes it needed a paint job, but it was such an improvement over the boring basic vinyl someone had put up to avoid painting.  At least they had left the original siding underneath rather than totally obliterating it.  That ability to revert to original is what has stopped me from doing anything, yet.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

A couple of thoughts:

1. Like vinyl siding, you really need to pick a color you can truly live with for the next 30 years (whether you end up liking the finished result or not).  Wood (shingles and/or clapboard) allows you to change it up every 5 years or so.

2.  How many years/rounds of re-painting the wood exterior of the house would $36,000 buy? 

3.  Will you lose any unique design elements on the facade of the house by simplifying the exterior with Hardie board?  Would a potential buyer care that the exterior has been so simplified?

4.  I didn't explore any further than the Hardie website, but what's with the asbestos compensation page on the website?  Maybe I'm paranoid, but I ALWAYS wonder what the health impact is of using something on/in my house that is supposedly "better" than the real thing.

I grow as weary of home maintenance as the next person, so I can completely understand the appeal of vinyl and Hardie board, etc.  Just choose wisely what works best for you.

[garion2003]

good thoughts, and thanks. 

It would be interesting to see what new wood siding would cost. The house definitely needs something, the existing clapboards are tough shape. Maybe I can post a photo.


Hardie plank would need painting eventually (saw a figure of 15 years somewhere). 

I understand vinyl fades quickly - can anyone confirm that? A coworker has vinyl and they had to replace a section that got damaged this winter. Luckily it was on the back side of the house so the mismatch isn't as noticeable.

Great food for thought here! 

[Malarky]

I find this thread interesting because I'm going to be facing the same thing.  I have a an old,  shingled New England house and I'm certain that there is a layer of clapboard beneath. Adding another layer of anything isn't an option.   

I will die before I put vinyl siding up.  Plastic makes me stabby.  

The one saving grace with my shingles is that they are stained, not painted.  In 21 years, I've stained them twice.  And stain doesn't chip or peel, it just fades.  Curling has become a problem.  We stained it as soon as we bought it, but it had been neglected for years.  

If you get an estimate for new wood clapboards or shingles, please share.  I hesitate to get my own estimate because I don't want to be hounded about a project I won't get to for several years and I hate to take up someone's knowing they won't get the job for the foreseeable future.     

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

I have a 90 year old full Cape with painted cedar shingles.  

Some minor curling, but not too noticeable.  Yet.  

I actually love a house with expertly painted wood clapboard -- it just looks so neat and trim and uniform and symmetric and orderly.

Until the paint starts to peel.  

[busymom]

Yes, vinyl DOES fade with time. A neighbor damaged a piece of our siding while out playing with his kids. He replaced a section, but the new piece was darker than our faded siding. So, we rotated a different piece to replace the damaged portion, & put the new piece on a low spot of our house, where it's less noticeable.

I saw Hardie siding for the first time this year, & I'd like to save up to get that. The older the vinyl gets, the more brittle it becomes. That's the curse of living in a state with temps from -30 to 100 degrees.

[garion2003]

Jul 24, 2015 21:01:15 GMT -5 Malarky said:

I find this thread interesting because I'm going to be facing the same thing.  I have a an old,  shingled New England house and I'm certain that there is a layer of clapboard beneath. Adding another layer of anything isn't an option.   

I will die before I put vinyl siding up.  Plastic makes me stabby.  

The one saving grace with my shingles is that they are stained, not painted.  In 21 years, I've stained them twice.  And stain doesn't chip or peel, it just fades.  Curling has become a problem.  We stained it as soon as we bought it, but it had been neglected for years.  

If you get an estimate for new wood clapboards or shingles, please share.  I hesitate to get my own estimate because I don't want to be hounded about a project I won't get to for several years and I hate to take up someone's knowing they won't get the job for the foreseeable future.     

Will do - I may try to get a vinyl quote and a wood quote just for kicks. Vinyl looks good - but it does seem flimsy. I hadn't realized it got brittle. I thought about just putting on new wood, but it was done before on this house and the parts that were redone are faded and curling. sigh

[CCL]

That sounds like a lot of money to me. Might be worth it, though. I'm sure you'll get a couple more quotes to be sure it's a fair price.

[Malarky]

Jul 25, 2015 20:45:21 GMT -5 CCL said:

That sounds like a lot of money to me. Might be worth it, though. I'm sure you'll get a couple more quotes to be sure it's a fair price.

I just spent $10,000 on a new roof and I paid $7,000 to have it painted seven years ago.  The price to never have to pay again doesn't seem too high to me.  Welcome to New England.  

Everthing is expensive here!  

[Deleted]

Jul 24, 2015 20:33:10 GMT -5 garion2003 said:

good thoughts, and thanks. 

It would be interesting to see what new wood siding would cost. The house definitely needs something, the existing clapboards are tough shape. Maybe I can post a photo.


Hardie plank would need painting eventually (saw a figure of 15 years somewhere). 

I understand vinyl fades quickly - can anyone confirm that? A coworker has vinyl and they had to replace a section that got damaged this winter. Luckily it was on the back side of the house so the mismatch isn't as noticeable.

Great food for thought here! 

What does 'tough shape' mean? Decaying or just filthy looking? if you have a lot of decay I would want the pieces removed to see what is going on underneath them.

I'd be more inclined to stick with wood whether lap or shingle, replace any decayed pieces, pressure wash & paint. PW & Paint (including trim painting) in my HCOLA was under $4K. I pressure wash every couple years (its damp here) so I spent about $300 on a washer since we have to do it regularly.

[mroped]

Going with the Hardy might be more expensive but if done right will hold on longer:predrilled holes for nails/screws, properly framed/insulated under etc. cracks very fast if is not properly attached.
Vinyl is alright for a quick and cheaper fix if you can live with it but given the New England's climate it will not last very long. The majority of vinyl siding manufacturers guarantee their product somewhere around 10 yrs.
Going to a masonry finish- brick or stone- may not fit with the house style, design, surroundings, area etc but would give you a lifetime of "no worries, no maintenance". All with a definetly higher cost than any other.
In our area, vinyl goes for a $15-16/SF or as stone goes on average for $25/SF.

If there is clapboard then that would be the most appropriate aproach.
You can go to a local sawmill yourself and have them give you rough cut board of a predetermined width- say 10-12"- at 1" or 1-1/4" thickness, stick stack them home and stain them yourself before installing. For the installation you can hire someone if you can't do it yourself. The rough cut boards are exactly just that: rough looking as in little fibers sticking up from the wood piece, not a smooth surface.
If you go with hemlock boards and you give it a good coat of stain, a second one with a sprayer might be required in maybe 10-15 years but those hemlock boards will last for a hundred.
It doesn't have to be a colored stain, it can be a clear gloss/varnish as to maintain the wood color, just something that would seal it against elements.

[swamp]

I have Hardie plank siding.  It's awesome.  It's been up 7 years and no issues, no fading, still looks new.  We wash it with a pressure washer.  I highly recommend it. 

[garion2003]

Jul 25, 2015 21:07:20 GMT -5 @rockit said:

Jul 24, 2015 20:33:10 GMT -5 garion2003 said:

good thoughts, and thanks. 

It would be interesting to see what new wood siding would cost. The house definitely needs something, the existing clapboards are tough shape. Maybe I can post a photo.


Hardie plank would need painting eventually (saw a figure of 15 years somewhere). 

I understand vinyl fades quickly - can anyone confirm that? A coworker has vinyl and they had to replace a section that got damaged this winter. Luckily it was on the back side of the house so the mismatch isn't as noticeable.

Great food for thought here! 

What does 'tough shape' mean? Decaying or just filthy looking? if you have a lot of decay I would want the pieces removed to see what is going on underneath them.

I'd be more inclined to stick with wood whether l or shingle, replace any decayed pieces, pressure wash & paint. PW & Paint (including trim painting) in my HCOLA was under $4K. I pressure wash every couple years (its damp here) so I spent about $300 on a washer since we have to do it regularly.

decaying - well rotting, splitting, and cupping/curling.  A coat of paint would not help at this point, and pressure washing would probably result in pieces of clapboard being shot off the house  It really needs new siding, the issue I'm facing is the best material to use.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

I took the dog for a walk this morning and noticed a Colonial up the street from me is getting Hardie board installed. They had either wider clapboard or shingles on it (I don't remember exactly--I didn't ever look that closely). But the Tyvek is labelled all over with the Hardie name. I'll let you know how it looks when it is done.

[garion2003]

Here are some photos:

[garion2003]

Jul 25, 2015 22:53:25 GMT -5 swamp said:

I have Hardie plank siding.  It's awesome.  It's been up 7 years and no issues, no fading, still looks new.  We wash it with a pressure washer.  I highly recommend it. 

Just curious, swamp, how often do you pressure wash it?

[swamp]

Aug 5, 2015 15:32:26 GMT -5 garion2003 said:

Jul 25, 2015 22:53:25 GMT -5 swamp said:

I have Hardie plank siding.  It's awesome.  It's been up 7 years and no issues, no fading, still looks new.  We wash it with a pressure washer.  I highly recommend it. 

Just curious, swamp, how often do you pressure wash it?

not very often. I think it's been done once or twice.

[garion2003]

Oh nice, that's pretty low maintenance (just what I want!!)

The siding contractor offered $1,000 discount if we sing a contract before 8/31. Alas, I'm not going to be able to do this for another year or two.