Power Tools!!!!!!

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Help me choose a cordless drill for DH for Father's Day.

I am looking for an all-purpose drill.

Good battery life. (I might splurge on a second battery to have ready just in case?)

Reasonably lightweight.

They probably all do, but I want one that also runs in reverse.

Will any brand drill bit work in any drill (are the bits standardized in size?)

Our neighbor has one with a handle on the end -- does DH need one like that for general household  maintenance?

Does Sears (Craftsman) still stand behind its tools and offer lifetime warranties?

If not, which brand do you recommend -- DeWalt? Ryobi?  Stanley?  Who??

[milee]

You do not need the one with the handle on the end unless you're doing projects that require extra ooopmh - like drilling into concrete. For general household stuff, you do not need that and it adds extra weight/bulk. Give me a minute and I'll look at the latest CR ratings for drills.

We use the small Ryobis for work and they're great workhorses, but you shouldn't pick based on just one person's experience.

[mroped]

I got a set of Makita cordless- drill gun, impact hammer, charger and flashlight with two batteries as part of the set. My wife got them for me at some point last year.
I love them!
Lightweight and the batteries have a longer life than the DeWalt that I had in the past.

Go for a LiIon pack. I strongly recomend Makita.
Price wise they go about hand in hand with DeWalt, slightly cheaper than Bosch.
I wouldn't go with Ryobi or Sears/Craftsman.

They would fit any drill bit up to a 1/2 " shaft on the bit. 
If you get the pack, Makita sells them in a handy bag.

[justme]

A handle down by the bit? That's mostly for leverage in drilling hard things or possibly slippery things. So like for metal. Though I suppose some might like it rather than just holding it in one spot.

Most of my dad's are ryobi. Probably has a dewalt too. I'll have to go home to check the brand of the one he gave me. But before he did that he was like even a little black and decker would work since I'd just be putting together furniture, hanging things, and crafting. Nothing heavy duty enough or often enough to warrant spending 100+.

Drills should be standardized, either metric or standard. Easy wayto tell, if the end twists to make a hole larger or smaller for the bit it'll fit just about any bit.

I think they still do, though I don't think my dad had bought much from them lately. Though most of his wrenches screwdrivers hammers and stuff ate craftsman and have been around two decades at least.

[milee]

Here were the top 2 CR picks for cordless drills, listed in descending order of their ratings.  :

Hitachi DS18DSAL cordless drill

Price range: $139.99 - $187.99
 
Summary: This 18-volt Hitachi in the general use drill/drivers category has a 1/2-inch chuck and offers two speed ranges with 22 clutch settings. It is sold with 2 Li-ion batteries. It has a lifetime warranty.

A CR Best Buy, this 18-volt drill is nearly as fast and powerful as heavy-duty models yet weighs just 3.4 pounds. Pluses include a 1/2-inch chuck, two speed ranges, two lithium-ion batteries, a smart charger, and an LED work light. We also found its handle especially comfortable. While recharges take some 10 minutes longer than the optimal 30 minutes or less, they're still reasonably fast. A gripe at this price: The battery doesn't show the time remaining until battery is depleted.

Highs
• Relatively fast at drilling holes and driving screws.
• Powerful.
• Recharges batteries in less than one hour.
• Easy to handle and control.
• Quieter than most.
• Among the lightest in its category.
• Has a 1/2-inch chuck.
• Has an LED work light for greater accuracy.

Lows
• No significant lows.

Ridgid R86008K cordless drill

Approximate retail price:$180

Summary: This 18-volt Ridgid in the general use drill/drivers category has a 1/2-inch chuck and offers two speed ranges with 24 clutch settings. It is sold with 2 Li-ion batteries with a charge indicator light. It has a 3 year warranty.

CR's Take

Consider this 18-volt, two-speed drill, a CR Best Buy, if you're willing to trade a little power for long run time. At 4 pounds, it's still relatively easy to handle. And recharges happen in just 25 minutes. Features include the usual 1/2-inch chuck, two lithium-ion batteries, a smart charger, an LED work, and--yes--a battery-charge indicator.

Highs
• Relatively fast at drilling holes and driving screws.
• Powerful.
• Long run time per battery charge.
• Recharges batteries in less than one hour.
• Easy to handle and control.
• Quieter than most.
• Has a 1/2-inch chuck.
• Has an LED work light for greater accuracy.

Lows
• No significant lows.

[hoops902]

1.  He doesn't need one with a handle on the end.  I have one that does (it's not cordless) and I use it for drilling holes in concrete or brick.  It's a hammerdrill and needs to be held a little tighter...in general the handle would get in the way for most jobs.

2.  They all run in reverse (I think, I've never seen one that didn't).

3.  Most that I have seen will come with a charger and 2nd battery, so buying a 2nd battery is probably unnecessary.

4.  Bits are standardized in size, you're either going to end up with a 1/2" or 3/8" one.  I'd get the keyless chuck...most cordless are though (keyless meaning you tighten it by turning the chuck up where the drill bit is with your hands, not with a key which inserts into a hole in the side and then turns a "cog" to tighten it).  The 1/2" has more torque, but he probably doesn't need it unless he's doing some bigtime drilling (at which point you might as well get a corded drill).  Get a lighter 3/8" is my opinion.

Type depends on what kind of power you want, how much you want to spend, etc.  I got my dad a Milwaukee 18v lithium drill a couple years ago, he loves it.  It's really about how it will be used though.  I have a bigger Black&Decker and a smaller one as well, I use the smaller one as much as possible because it's light and convenient.  If he's going to get more tools in the same line then get something he likes the full line.  If you want to spend $300-400 you can...if you want to spend $50 you can.  The budget/use will drive the brand.  Get a name brand, not a store brand and you're essentially just buying in at the quality level you're paying for.  Get the cheap store brand and the motor is gonna burn out quickly in my experience.

[mroped]

Craftsman/Sears might still stand behind their warranties but it's a hassle to deal with since everything is made in China. Stanley does the same. I'll never buy another tool made by Stanley!

The LiIon packs that I recommended in my previous post are more like a "professional grade" for cordless drills.
If that's what you would like, my cordless pack was somewhere on $200 or above for the whole pack.

[Baby Fawkes]

I agree with mroped - for stuff around the house the cordless Makita set has been fantastic for me. I don't have a use for the flashlight though, so I went for the kit without them. www.amazon.com/Makita-LCT209W-Lithium-Ion-Cordless-2-Piece/dp/B005CQ1RGI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1434663240&sr=8-1&keywords=LCT209W&pebp=1434663295753&perid=0250ABFC2Q50CKF5RAP8 

They are nice and compact and really light. I've not had any issues with either the drill/driver or the impact driver. I wasn't sure how good they would be when I got them but I have been very impressed. It's not going to drive concrete anchors in, but you'd want a corded hammer action drill for that anyway (and then you get that to supplement these )

[dannylion]

I got a Ryobi on sale at Home Depot a couple of years ago (no idea what model it is, but it's probably the basic model). It came with a spare battery.

It works fine and does many things. It also comes in a handsome yellow bag with black trim.

I have mostly used it to drill drainage holes in the bottoms of giant resin flower pots.  

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

TD just bought one, after tons of research.  Lemme so see what he bought....

The name on it is Porter Cable.  I know he bought and returned several drills until he found one he was happy with.  This is it, I think.  I do know he paid nearly $200 for it.


www.mscdirect.com/product/details/30827851?src=pla&cid=PLA-Google-PLA+-+Test&CS_003=7867724&CS_010=30827851&cid=ppc-google-Shopping+Campaign+Test_s___54767723104_c_S&mkwid=s|dc&pcrid=54767723104

[tskeeter]

Jun 18, 2015 16:18:35 GMT -5 GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl said:

Help me choose a cordless drill for DH for Father's Day.

I am looking for an all-purpose drill.

Good battery life. (I might splurge on a second battery to have ready just in case?)

Reasonably lightweight.

They probably all do, but I want one that also runs in reverse.

Will any brand drill bit work in any drill (are the bits standardized in size?)

Our neighbor has one with a handle on the end -- does DH need one like that for general household  maintenance?

Does Sears (Craftsman) still stand behind its tools and offer lifetime warranties?

If not, which brand do you recommend -- DeWalt? Ryobi?  Stanley?  Who??

Your decision will probably hinge mostly on how much you want to spend.  If cost is no object, industrial grade drills (DeWalt, Hitachi, Panasonic, Porter-Cable, Milwaukee, Rigid) will probably run more than $100.  Homeowner grade drills (Craftsman, Ryobi) will be quite a bit less. 

If you want something that is more durable than the homeowner version, avoid Craftsman and Ryobi.  However, if they are only going to get a few minutes use every couple of months, instead of all day, Craftsman and Ryobi should be fine. 

I have a 25 or 30 year old 9 volt Makita with a customized grip (read fell off the ladder 20 years ago and broke one side of the grip, so it's crooked) and a 12 or 14 volt Panasonic.  When cordless drills first came out, the Makita was the choice of carpenters and contractors (probably because it was the only industrial grade cordless on the market).  The Panasonic was the top recommendation by a woodworking magazine at the time I bought it.  I see a lot of Dewalt drills on construction sites, too.  Milwaukee products (the red ones) are still pretty popular in the construction trades because of their reputation for durability, but the reviews I have read don't put them at the top for drills and they are usually more expensive than other brands.  If I was buying a new drill tonight, I'd most likely buy a Dewalt. 

The industrial grade drills that I've seen, come with a second battery.

To keep the weight down, you want to avoid 18 volt models, that claim long battery life.  You get the additional power and long battery life by using heavy batteries.  (Although four pounds doesn't sound heavy, it is when you're holding it above your head for several minutes each time you drill one of 40 holes.)  I find drills in the 12 volt range a good compromise between power and weight.  Note that even my 9 volt Makita has no problem drilling a 1 inch hole through a couple of 2 X 4's making up the top plate of wall framing.  If I need to spend a couple of hours working with a drill above my head, I'll take out the 9 volt because it is lighter.  Note that Rigid models tend to be heavier than other brands for a drill with the same battery power.  And the homeowner grade drills will be lighter than the industrial grade drills (some homeowner grade drills use plastic gears rather than metal).

Yes, all of the cordless drills I've seen are variable speed and reversable.

Any brand of drill bit will work in any drill.

The additional handle is used when drilling with really big bits in thick wood where a binding bit might be a problem.  I've used an auxilary handle once in 40 years, when I was drilling a series of 2 or 3 inch vent holes through the framing of a house.  My Panasonic without an auxilary handle worked just fine to run a 1 1/2 inch hole saw through a stack of 4 pieces of 1/2 inch plywood a few weeks ago.

My impression is that Craftsman doesn't come with a lifetime warranty any more.  I think the only lifetime warranty items are their professional line of hand tools.



Safety warning:  it's not a good practice to leave batteries charging for extended periods of time (like all day or over night or for several days and nights running).  A neighbor's recent conversation with multiple fire inspectors (as a result of an arson fire set during a burglary) indicated that overcharging batteries is a really common cause of house fires.    

[KaraBoo]

DH loves his Milwaukee set. He uses them for work all the time.

Before getting those for/from work, we had/have Dewalt at home. He now wants to replace all of our Dewalt tools with Milwaukee when they finally burn out.

[Jake 48]

At least 18 volt, 1/2" chuck. I have 2 cordless DeWalt. Get the extra battery

[steph08]

I prefer Dewalt power tools. Our cordless drills are great.

DH did just buy a Ryobi (it's sitting next to me at the kitchen table). Oh, that's an impact driver, that doesn't really help you.

He really likes it though!

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Jun 19, 2015 9:45:38 GMT -5 Jake 48 said:

At least 18 volt, 1/2" chuck. I have 2 cordless DeWalt. Get the extra battery

Okay, so Lowe's has 2 different DeWalt cordless drills on sale for $99:

One is an 18 volt Nickel Cadmium with a ½ inch chuck:

18-Volt Nickel Cadmium (Nicd) 1/2-in Cordless Drill with Battery and Soft Case

Includes drill/driver, two 18-volt batteries, charger, and kit bag

Compact size fits into the tightest conditions

Lightweight design (5.2 lbs) minimizes user fatigue

High performance motor delivers maximum power of 380 unit watts out (UWO)

Dual speed range: 0-450/0-1,500 RPM delivers optimal performance

1/2-in single-sleeve keyless ratcheting chuck for tighter bit grip

Maximum durability and reliability withstands jobsite conditions

One is a 20 volt Lithium Ion with a variable speed motor and a ½ inch ratcheting chuck (whatever that is):

20-Volt Lithium Ion 1/2-in Cordless Drill with Battery and Soft Case

Includes two 20-volt lithium-ion battery packs, charger, drill and soft contractor bag

Variable-speed motor (0-450/1,500-RPM) provides up to 300-UWO of power

1/2-in single-sleeve ratcheting chuck provides a tight bit grip

Two 20-volt lithium-ion battery packs with 1.3-Ah and 60-min charge time

Lightweight 3.6-lb design reduces user fatigue

3-year limited warranty

16 clutch settings allow you to adjust the torque to match the task at hand

Comfort grip handle allows for extended use

So, wise YMers, which one do I buy?

[ken a.k.a OMK]

They have very similar specs, but I'd buy the second one because I like Lithium batteries over NiCad.

[dannylion]

I believe nickel cadmium batteries are older, less desirable technology than lithium ion. If I am wrong about this, I am confident that someone will correct me.

 

Also, being able to adjust the torque surely must be the mark of a superior tool.

Actually, they both appear to have a ratcheting chuck, so that's not going to be the tie-breaker.  "Ratcheting Chuck" would be a good band name.

In the end, I'd probably get the second one because it's lighter and appears to have more features.  If it has the more attractive bag, I would definitely choose it. 

Someone who actually knows something about power tools will no doubt be along soon to provide more useful information. 

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Dannylion, you are a total hoot.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

This was one of the ones that TD bought and returned.  He bought it, looked at the reviews and read that many had problems with the handle breaking off so returned it.   He said DeWalts normally do not have a bad reputation, but this seems to be a problem with the newer ones.

You might want to go read some reviews before you bite the bullet.

[mroped]

The 18 V Nicd uses a somewhat outdated battery type. Better than traditional but not as good as Li-ion.
However, the 20 V is heavier and bigger in dimensions.
this one will be bettere if you need the extra torque. That is necessary when you drive screws all day long or put it a high number of carriage bolts.

The only problem I'm having is the price:$99 that sounds fishy. I got a $99 cordless once and after a week the chuck fell out so...not good!
There is a reason why they sell them for that price and the "we decided to discount it!" is not a good enough reason. Might be that they are made for a lighter grade and purpose which will be befitting your needs as a homeowner.


I'd still go with the 18V Li-ion Makita!

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Jun 20, 2015 15:23:45 GMT -5 mroped said:

The 18 V Nicd uses a somewhat outdated battery type. Better than traditional but not as good as Li-ion.
However, the 20 V is heavier and bigger in dimensions.
this one will be bettere if you need the extra torque. That is necessary when you drive screws all day long or put it a high number of carriage bolts.

The only problem I'm having is the price:$99 that sounds fishy. I got a $99 cordless once and after a week the chuck fell out so...not good!
There is a reason why they sell them for that price and the "we decided to discount it!" is not a good enough reason. Might be that they are made for a lighter grade and purpose which will be befitting your needs as a homeowner.


I'd still go with the 18V Li-ion Makita!

So, I shouldn't think it's just a deal on behalf of Father's Day?  

The reviews on Lowes are positive, but old.

I went and looked at the Consumer Reports recommended drills that Milee posted (thanks, Milee -- I'm a CR subscriber but have been ignoring them of late since so many of their test results are getting outdated).  

The Hitachi comes with variable speed and 500 rpm torque.  The reviews are a couple years old at best.

The Rigid comes with two speed and 530 rpm torque.  The reviews are more current -- even as recently as this week.  

I'm thinking DH might prefer the variable speed Hitachi over the two-speed Rigid because the slightly lower torque doesn't negate the variable speeds?  Or, should I go with the Rigid since the reviews are more recent?

Remember when you went to the local hardware store and had one or two choices in drills (or white paint or hardwood floors or appliances)?  I'm nor sure having too many choices is such a good thing.  

[mroped]

Variable speed is useless if the tool dies after putting in two screws.

I had bought enough tools to learn when and what to stay away from.
CC reports and all those on line opinion blogs about tools I don't trust them but that's just me. The wife on the other hand will go with anything that is better rated online.

Lowes is a corporation, for profit mind you, who cares not about Fathers Day or any other day. But they have to unload stock and that's what they care about.

Just to make it easier to decide:
 if the tool will be used just by him and just arround his place then go with something that is manageable price wise. He will appreciate it even if it breaks the second day. Would be more about the gesture.
  if he's gonna use it every day heavily and he will most likely rely on it to make his living then pony up and spend the money on something of quality: DeWalt, Makita, even a Porter Cable. No Ryobi or Craftsman. Milwaukee only if it is a corded(electric) drill gun.

Variable speed on a drill gun counts only on the corded ones not on the cordless.
Most of the cordless have two or three speeds.

[milee]

Here's why I like reviews like CR - they set objective criteria and compare all the models.

Most people, even contractors have only one or two (maybe three for a real tool hound) current makes/models at the same time. So they might really, really love - or hate - the one tool they have but that might be only because they didn't also try out the other models for days on end in extended use and testing. It's not that their opinion isn't valid, it's just that they rarely have enough of a comparison to the others that it is helpful from an absolute sense.

It's similar to when posters write in about their cars.  Invariably there will be posters who write in to say they absolutely LOVE their XYZ POS. But who knows if they love it because their Daddy taught them to always buy cars made in Iowa and this was the best of the two crap models made in Iowa or because they love shiny fenders and this has the shiniest fenders even when it's sitting broken down in the driveway or whatever. Or maybe they just love their POS because it's what they have and they've never spent much time in a non-POS to know the difference? Or they used to own the single lemon non-POS in history but that was their entire non-POS experience so they have a skewed view?

So that's why I start with comparative reviews like the ones in CR, then after I've narrowed it down to a few possible models, then I look at the reviews from people who actually own those models.  You'll always have a few owner reviews that love it and a few that hate it with a burning fire, but look for trends and totals.

Don't just pick because Jim Bob on a message board tells you that Milwaukee is the best.  (But if you want the heavy duty cordless contractor model, it does just so happen that Milwaukee was the best rated of those by CR...) 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I use CR, but they're not the be all to end all.  You have to read their scales carefully because the difference between their best value and not quite as good may be very small.

When I went looking for a washer, I was ready to pull the plug on a Whirlpool model until I went back and checked CR.  They hated it.  I went into Lowe's web site and read the reviews on the washer I was getting ready to buy and most of them liked it - until a sensor failed - and then it became an expensive fix.  I chose something else.

So I use CR as a first cut to see what models to look at and which ones to stay away from.  Then I go to the store and figure out what is available in my price range.  Then I go back to the store's website and read specific reviews for that particular model.

[DagnyT]

My husband bought his DeWalt power tools 17 years ago. They are all still going strong. He did upgrade the battery packs to Lithium Ion.

[tskeeter]

Jun 20, 2015 17:18:45 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I use CR, but they're not the be all to end all.  You have to read their scales carefully because the difference between their best value and not quite as good may be very small.

When I went looking for a washer, I was ready to pull the plug on a Whirlpool model until I went back and checked CR.  They hated it.  I went into Lowe's web site and read the reviews on the washer I was getting ready to buy and most of them liked it - until a sensor failed - and then it became an expensive fix.  I chose something else.

So I use CR as a first cut to see what models to look at and which ones to stay away from.  Then I go to the store and figure out what is available in my price range.  Then I go back to the store's website and read specific reviews for that particular model.

While I'm generally a CR fan, I do think you need to take some of their ratings with a grain of salt.  The people who are doing CR testing are scientists and engineers.  But, they are not necessarily heavy users of some of the products they are testing.  So, sometimes they don't test for attributes that are important to heavy users of that product and sometimes they misinterpret the significance of some of the attributes that they test.

Decades ago, CR ran a report on bicycles.  At the time I was riding close to 2,000 miles a month, so I was definitely a heavy user and because I did all of my own maintenance and repairs, as well as worked on other people's bikes, I was very familiar with the mechanics and technology of the bicycles on the market.  The primarly factor CR used to assess the bikes they were testing was how effectively the front wheel braked.  Their chief concern was that the rider would be thrown over the handlebars of the bike.  They ignored the fact that braking is modulated by the rider.  It's not a characteristic that the manufacturer controls, it's controlled by the rider.  And they ignored the fact that braking rate is highly and very easily adjustable.  They failed to give significant consideration to many factors that I consider important.  Things like is the design of the bike appropriate for the way you intend to use it?  Are the components that the bike is assembled with high quality?  (Crummy components = poor adjustability and maintainability, poor performance, and short life expectancy.)  And how to properly fit a bike and how to properly adjust a bike for a proper fit.  Suitablility for intended use, fit that is adjusted for the rider's physiology, and component performance are the factors that determine whether or not a buyer will be satisfied with their purchase.  The aggressiveness of the front wheel braking is a peripheral issue that is 100% under the control of the user.  CR blew it that time.

The CR's power tool ratings that I've seen are kind of similar to their bike ratings.  Often not quite on the mark.  I find wood working magazines a more relaible source of rating information for power hand tools because the testing and evaluation is done by people who use those tools on a daily basis and often under challenging conditions.  They may not use all of the scientific methodology of a CR test, but they are more likely to identify and evaluate the attributes that are critial to users outside the test lab.        

[OldCoyote]

GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl,  It depends on the user, Ryobi is a good cheap brand works very well. 

I am a tool user, abuser,   I have tons old Milwaukee corded tools, big one, cannot be beat.  the battery operated that I had short battery life,  it may have changed, I have not bought one in a while.

I have lots of DeWalt 18 and 20 volt cordless drills and impact tools,  the 20 volt lithium has incredible user time.

If the DH is a regular user,  for the price you can't beat Ryobi,  if he wants a heavy duty type buy the DeWalt,  if he wants super heavy duty go for the corded Milwaukee.

As I sit here typing this with a wrist brace on,   from using a super duty Milwaukee roto hammer that may have stronger than the user.  

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

His children gave him a DeWalt 20 cordless.  It came with a charger and two batteries.

And a set of bits. 

And a new toolbox.

He finally just charged the batteries last weekend.  

Maybe this weekend he'll give it a try.     

If he doesn't get around to it this weekend, then I'm just going to "break it in" because I have a list of things that would be far easier done with a good drill.  

(This is also the guy who complains he has no "fun" clothes to wear (wears a suit and tie everyday to work) but has clothes we have given him as gifts with the tags still on them!!! hanging in his closet.)

He's a slow adopter.  

[toomuchreality]

I love power tools. Really, I just love tools.

GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl, I hope he enjoys his new tools and tool box!