Life After DUIe

[alabamagal]

Is there any hope of getting a good job if you have a DUI (or 2) on your record?

I have a 3rd cousin that I am somewhat close to, part of our large extended family and in the same age group as my kids.  He is 24, he is very book smart, but has made some bad choices in his life.  He got a degree in Finance and went straight to MBA with no work experience, so he paid with student loans.  I am guessing he owes in the $100k in student loans.  His gpa is probably close to 4.0.
 
He got a DUI when he was underage, and then another one later.  He lost his driver license for at least a year.

He currently lives in a condo owned by his grandparents.  That set of grandparents (not my family) have been enablers to other kids in trouble, some of whom turned out really bad.  But he has to live somewhere.  His parents are divorced and there is a lot of drama there.

So after being unemployed for 8 months after graduation, he just got a job with a moving company (physical labor).  

My brother works in a CPA firm and thought about recommending him for a job, but the kid has the same unusual last name as my brother, so it would be obvious he is family and my brother was worried the kid would screw up.  Note that my brother had 1 DUI back in the 80s, but that was not as serious back then and it never was a problem for him getting a job.  Brother has not had any issues since.

Is there any hope that this young  man can ever get a good job (assuming he stays out of trouble for a while)?  Or are the DUIs going to be an issue for the rest of his life?

[Deleted]

I think I've said my ealy 20s weren't a time of great personal responsibility. I got a DUI. I didn't think I was intoxicated. ARD worked for me. Has it worked for him? Does he actually have DUIs on his record, ARD doesn't always show up that way. Has he stopped this behavior? 

I lost my drivers liscence for six months, and no 'bread and butter' back then. I was working as a teacher, but I already had the job. I will say that my Union rep was very calm and commonplace about the whole thing, they couldn't try to do anything to me, at most they would have to offer me counseling. It was a proactive meeting, as it turned out no one ever said a thing. 

Contrast, when I got pregnant without being married, union reps were much more concerned and planned out a specific course of action if needed, ie. Treated it like it could definitely be a much bigger deal. (Which actually three people before me in that district had been pressured into marriage)... Turned out no one said anything there either, but they were much more concerned at that than my DUI..? 

Honestly, and I'm not sure it's good, but it feels like things are even laxer in some ways today than they were in the 90s? 

Anyway, I'd say he has a good chance if the behavior has stopped. I'm not in that particular field however, and others might have better, more recent examples.

[mroped]

I am not sure why but some employers actually consider your "record"
if it is a position where you have to drive a company vehicle for most times I'd see that relevant but if you will be working in a factory/office/ job site where you are responsible to get to and from, I don't see the relevance of it.
What you do in your free time should be your business unless your behavior affects the business that you are working for.
I heard once that in certain states they won't give you or they would revoke your profesional licences if you have 2 DUIs on your record.

[Deleted]

Judging by the number of people I know that have gotten DUIs,  I would say it shouldn't be a major issue for getting a job unless it's one where he drives. 

Also, employers typically only go back so many years when pulling background info (unless it's a high security type job).   In MN/WI it's 7 years. 

[Tennesseer]

That your cousin has a record, even if they are DUIs, may not bode well in a business like Finance and CPAs.  Those fields involve other peoples' money.  The business owners may be concerned about his convictions and debt.  Embezzlement may cross their minds.

Better he build up a work resume which shows job stability and no more driving convictions.

[Deleted]

maybe he could counter the questions on DUIs in interviews if he could say he learned some valuable lessons and no longer drank. I can  understand why people would be reluctant to hire someone with DUIs if they traveled for the company or went dinners where drinking occurred.

[weltschmerz]

Jun 14, 2015 9:43:12 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

That your cousin has a record, even if they are DUIs, may not bode well in a business like Finance and CPAs.  Those fields involve other peoples' money.  The business owners may be concerned about his convictions and debt.  Embezzlement may cross their minds.

Better he build up a work resume which shows job stability and no more driving convictions.

Also, if he wants to travel in the future, he'll have issues. A DUI is a felony in Canada, and he won't be allowed in.

Canadians with a prior DUI can't get into the US, either.

[Deleted]

I've been to Canada since my DUI. Again, ARD might have made a difference.

[weltschmerz]

Jun 14, 2015 11:02:32 GMT -5 oped said:

I've been to Canada since my DUI. Again, ARD might have made a difference.

I know several people with prior DUIs who were turned away at the border.

When was this? Since 9/11, things are very, very different.

Thinking about traveling to Canada? You'd better reconsider if you have been convicted of DWI or DUI (Driving While Impaired or Driving Under the Influence) within the last ten years. It's the Canadian Criminal Code definition of impaired driving which is used to determine the severity of your conviction -- even if it was a misdemeanor under local law, it may be considered more serious by Canadian standards. Canadian law considers impaired driving to be a serious offence and this attitude is also held by most Canadians.

www.tripadvisor.ca/Travel-g153339-c49436/Canada:Dwi.Or.Dui.Driving.Convictions.html

[Deleted]

Jun 14, 2015 11:00:01 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Jun 14, 2015 9:43:12 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

That your cousin has a record, even if they are DUIs, may not bode well in a business like Finance and CPAs.  Those fields involve other peoples' money.  The business owners may be concerned about his convictions and debt.  Embezzlement may cross their minds.

Better he build up a work resume which shows job stability and no more driving convictions.

Also, if he wants to travel in the future, he'll have issues. A DUI is a felony in Canada, and he won't be allowed in.

Canadians with a prior DUI can't get into the US, either.

That's not true.  My ex and his brothers and Dad are up there now and go fishing there several times a year.  Two of the five have had DUIs. 

[weltschmerz]

An offense of driving under the influence will typically not cause problems for Canadians entering the United States. However . . . . . .

The biggest surprise for most Americans is that they are very likely to be turned away at the Canadian border if they have any type of alcohol related offense.

•It does not matter if you are arriving as a passenger in another person’s car.
•It does not matter if you have no intention of driving in Canada at all. For example, 4 to 5 passengers a week who take the ferry to Victoria Canada for a one-day walking sightseeing trip are turned back for DUI / DWI offenses even though they do not have a car with them.
•It does not matter if your offense was classified as a misdemeanor or a felony.
•There are no exceptions for fans, guests, officials, or anyone else entering Canada for special events. Former U.S. President G.W. Bush had to get a special waiver to enter Canada because of his 1976 drunken-driving offense in Maine.

“But my Friend Got Across …”

You may hear stories of people who were allowed to cross the border even though they had a drunk driving offense. Others will say that they were allowed to into the country 2 or 3 times but were then stopped the next time they tried to cross. Why? Because border officers have complete discretion to allow, or deny, entry to anybody. You may get across, or you may be stopped. You may get pulled in for interrogation, and then allowed to cross, or you may be sent back. The simple fact is – Canada considers drunk driving to be a serious offense.

www.ezbordercrossing.com/the-inspection-experience/prior-criminal-offenses/crossing-canadian-border-with-a-dui/#.VX2ndPLbLUA

[Deleted]

Interesting.  Sounds like they don't screen too closely though.  I know I've never spent more than a minute at the gate.


Will the Canadian Border See That I Have a Criminal Record?

Every month millions of people show up at Canada's borders, and most travelers are processed in approximately 30 seconds. In an effort to keep traffic moving, many people are not fully screened by border agents. When you arrive at a Canadian border crossing, your passport is scanned through a CBSA lookout system that contains details about immigration violators and lost or stolen passports, but you are not necessarily checked against Canada's National Police Database called CPIC. Standing for Canadian Police Information Center, the FBI shares criminal information with CPIC enabling Canadian authorities to identify Americans who could potentially pose a threat to their country such as those with criminal records back home in the United States. The primary determining factor on whether or not a foreigner with a criminal record will be caught by authorities when entering Canada is whether or not their record has been transferred into the CBSA lookout system.

www.canadaduientrylaw.com/

[NancysSummerSip]

Jun 14, 2015 9:19:15 GMT -5 alabamagal said:

Is there any hope of getting a good job if you have a DUI (or 2) on your record?

I have a 3rd cousin that I am somewhat close to, part of our large extended family and in the same age group as my kids.  He is 24, he is very book smart, but has made some bad choices in his life.  He got a degree in Finance and went straight to MBA with no work experience, so he paid with student loans.  I am guessing he owes in the $100k in student loans.  His gpa is probably close to 4.0.
 
He got a DUI when he was underage, and then another one later.  He lost his driver license for at least a year.

He currently lives in a condo owned by his grandparents.  That set of grandparents (not my family) have been enablers to other kids in trouble, some of whom turned out really bad.  But he has to live somewhere.  His parents are divorced and there is a lot of drama there.

So after being unemployed for 8 months after graduation, he just got a job with a moving company (physical labor).  

My brother works in a CPA firm and thought about recommending him for a job, but the kid has the same unusual last name as my brother, so it would be obvious he is family and my brother was worried the kid would screw up.  Note that my brother had 1 DUI back in the 80s, but that was not as serious back then and it never was a problem for him getting a job.  Brother has not had any issues since.

Is there any hope that this young  man can ever get a good job (assuming he stays out of trouble for a while)?  Or are the DUIs going to be an issue for the rest of his life?

Can you definine "underage?" Was he a juvenile, or between the ages of 18 and 21? It matters. If the first DUI was received under the age of 16, that record should not come under consideration, as juvenile records are sealed and not for viewing by anyone.

If he was between 18 and 21, that's different, because at that point, he's an adult. There's two issues here: the criminal record and the driving record. Generally, both are lifetime recordings, though for employment purposes, most prospective employers are not allowed by law to go back much past 10 years on a criminal check. But a driving record is different. When that is provided by the state, it's a lifetime record.

Some states do allow for the expunging of DUIs after a certain period of time, and provided it was not a felony charge. This is the list of how each state handles the issue: www.duiprocess.com/expunge.php

[Deleted]

In the very large companies I have worked for, he would not pass background check. The manager would never be told why, but basically any convictions would screen the person out. 

For an employer, DUI indicates irresponsible decision making. It can also mean higher health costs & problem management & the employer gets sucked into having to pay for rehab (multiple times in some states). Monday absences related to weekend activities are one of the things managers are coached to watch for & rapidly terminate for absence/performance. Employees that behave that way become a liability to the business. 

Is the underage incident even on his record? If it is, check into how to get it expunged since he was a minor. I think that is a way you can help him. One DUI might be overlooked, but 2 suggests chronic problem, which eventually becomes the employers problem.

Mid to small employers also background check, but my experience is that if you are honest about the issue and how you have rehabbed yourself that you can still be employable. Years clean since the incident go a long way towards proving your commitment to staying sober. 

I am glad to see he is taking a job offered instead of sitting around whining about how unfair the world is.  This is a great step towards showing that he has turned himself around.

[alabamagal]

"Underage" was under 21. He was in college so over 18

He is in FL. Not likely to head to Canada.

[honeysalt]

Did he work during undergraduate/graduate school?

Was the second DUI a misdemeanor or a felony?

I agree with Rockit.  He has a better chance targeting small to medium sized businesses.  Large organizations can't usually be nuanced.  They create a policy and stick with it.  It is unfortunate because he would benefit from the training programs and infrastructure of a large organization, particularly since he went straight into an MBA program. 

Small and medium sized businesses can create a lot of opportunity for people who are self directed, but usually aren't a great fit for people who need a lot of management and guidance.  The fact that he is willing to take the moving job means he would probably be willing to take an entry level office job.  Small organizations are going to care more about skills and experience than degrees in my experience. 

[bobosensei]

So he's 24 now, but 2 DUIs since he was 18 means that he got 2 within 5-6 years maybe even a shorter timeframe especially considering he lost his license a year and shouldn't have been driving during that time.  I'm afraid I agree with the people saying that it would be a reason of concern for someone going into finance.  A future employer will look at this as a liability and anyone with an equal resume will be given priority over him.  I think he doesn't stand a chance at a good job until he's had 4-5 years pass without getting another DUI.  If I looked at his resume and saw DUI at 19 and DUI at 22, and he's 24 I'd think well he's due for another DUI in about a year.  I think one DUI people could get past, but 2 is much harder.  Even under the age of 21 he should have learned his lesson with the first DUI.  The fact he didn't shows a serious lapse of judgement, and should be a red flag to a future employer especially given his chosen field of study.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jun 14, 2015 11:18:29 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Interesting.  Sounds like they don't screen too closely though.  I know I've never spent more than a minute at the gate.


Will the Canadian Border See That I Have a Criminal Record?

Every month millions of people show up at Canada's borders, and most travelers are processed in approximately 30 seconds. In an effort to keep traffic moving, many people are not fully screened by border agents. When you arrive at a Canadian border crossing, your passport is scanned through a CBSA lookout system that contains details about immigration violators and lost or stolen passports, but you are not necessarily checked against Canada's National Police Database called CPIC. Standing for Canadian Police Information Center, the FBI shares criminal information with CPIC enabling Canadian authorities to identify Americans who could potentially pose a threat to their country such as those with criminal records back home in the United States. The primary determining factor on whether or not a foreigner with a criminal record will be caught by authorities when entering Canada is whether or not their record has been transferred into the CBSA lookout system.

www.canadaduientrylaw.com/

It depends on what's going on.  I cross the border into Canada roughly 4-10x/mo.  There are some trips where we go through with very few problems, and others where our car is torn apart and searched.....even with a Nexus (trusted traveler) card.  Then there are other times where we get grilled to the nth degree about what we're doing in Canada.  This is with no DUIs on either of our records.

It goes along the line of we always carry the dog's rabies certificate and make sure it's up to date.  Even though 99/100 times we go through the border with the mutt in the back seat they never bother to ask for it, they can ask to see it and have asked to see it.

[Deleted]

does he still drink?

[thyme4change]

When I was at Jury Duty, they asked if anyone had ever been convicted of a DUI, and half the people raised their hand.  They all had jobs - so, there is life after DUI.

[Opti]

Jun 14, 2015 12:44:04 GMT -5 honeysalt said:

Did he work during undergraduate/graduate school?

Was the second DUI a misdemeanor or a felony?

I agree with Rockit.  He has a better chance targeting small to medium sized businesses.  Large organizations can't usually be nuanced.  They create a policy and stick with it.  It is unfortunate because he would benefit from the training programs and infrastructure of a large organization, particularly since he went straight into an MBA program. 

Small and medium sized businesses can create a lot of opportunity for people who are self directed, but usually aren't a great fit for people who need a lot of management and guidance.  The fact that he is willing to take the moving job means he would probably be willing to take an entry level office job.  Small organizations are going to care more about skills and experience than degrees in my experience. 

A medium-sized business might be good though. At least for my former UNIX skills, medium-sized businesses seem to hire more readily during downturns and layoff less quickly than big corporate companies. And big companies don't always in my experience provide more direction especially if someone is being hired with an MBA versus cashier for Walmart or accountant for Ben & Jerry's.

My first job out of college I had a Master's in engineering. My title was basically Member of Technical Staff.

I got hired during the telecom upheaval, and if I had needed lots of direction at the age of 25 when I started, I would have been SOL. Most of what I learned came in retrospect and saving/copying good humor when I saw it posted in cubicles & offices.

The moving job is  good because he doesn't need to drive. A DUI might be like a bankruptcy or similar. It needs to age a bit. Good job shortly after a DUI, likely difficult. After two years employed elsewhere and no recurrence. Likely easier. JMO.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

I know of at least one teacher who applied for a job in my current county who was not hired because his background check had a DUI. 

[Opti]

Jun 14, 2015 16:39:44 GMT -5 @wxyz said:

Yes, dont count on going to Canada.

If your DUI is old enough it might not be part of modern computer data base and you might slip through.  They treat a DUI like attempted murder.  If you are Canadian dont count on coming this way if you have a drug offense.

As part of an international touring band I have been searched with dogs, held for hours at the border, had the van and trailor or bus torn apart for hours, etc, etc many times trying to get into Canada.  You might slip through if you are a tourist.  But, on a work permit, you had better be ready to be searched, grilled, and have your background checked, often for hours.  Many, many, times we had to leave band members behind on the US side of the border.  There are hotels on the border that do a good business with people that can not get across.

It also makes a BIG difference where the border crossing is.  Detroit area or large city area they are mean and tough and very strict.  In some rural, remote crossing you might have a chance.  It was a big enough issue that we would ask ALL potential new band members if they could get into Canada.  Canada was the hardest country to gain entry of any country we went to, BY FAR.

Good to know. Thanks for posting this. That makes me feel that in general a criminal record is worse than a

bad financial record, i.e. CC debt, foreclosure.

[Opti]

Jun 14, 2015 9:43:12 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

That your cousin has a record, even if they are DUIs, may not bode well in a business like Finance and CPAs.  Those fields involve other peoples' money.  The business owners may be concerned about his convictions and debt.  Embezzlement may cross their minds.

Better he build up a work resume which shows job stability and no more driving convictions.

Agreed about finance. Even though statistics don't bear out beliefs about avoiding people with DUIs or bankruptcies, the financial sector is very unforgiving from what I know. I actually got screened out of a call center for a cable company(not sure) probably a decade ago. I was in pre-foreclosure, so had to put it on the form. That meant I could not complete the interviews that day and had to go home and submit a written explanation of why I was in pre-foreclosure and if OKd could complete the interview at a future time if they wanted to.

I did not get that job. I have not applied for similar jobs. It was one of those bad financial history, assumes bad employee stuff. It was more than just annoying as I had bought my home with 800+ credit scores. But it was the form, and the form didn't care I lost a very well paying job, that really wasn't that available post 9/11.

[Deleted]

Jun 14, 2015 17:01:20 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jun 14, 2015 16:39:44 GMT -5 @wxyz said:

Yes, dont count on going to Canada.

If your DUI is old enough it might not be part of modern computer data base and you might slip through.  They treat a DUI like attempted murder.  If you are Canadian dont count on coming this way if you have a drug offense.

As part of an international touring band I have been searched with dogs, held for hours at the border, had the van and trailor or bus torn apart for hours, etc, etc many times trying to get into Canada.  You might slip through if you are a tourist.  But, on a work permit, you had better be ready to be searched, grilled, and have your background checked, often for hours.  Many, many, times we had to leave band members behind on the US side of the border.  There are hotels on the border that do a good business with people that can not get across.

It also makes a BIG difference where the border crossing is.  Detroit area or large city area they are mean and tough and very strict.  In some rural, remote crossing you might have a chance.  It was a big enough issue that we would ask ALL potential new band members if they could get into Canada.  Canada was the hardest country to gain entry of any country we went to, BY FAR.

Good to know. Thanks for posting this. That makes me feel that in general a criminal record is worse than a

bad financial record, i.e. CC debt, foreclosure.

I have never had an employer pull a credit check. I do not work in finance areas & expect them to be different. I had control of up to $125M in annual spend, but there were controls and quarterly audits.

I think every employer in the last 10 years has done a background check + verified degrees and certifications. Here they have to notify you that they are doing background check and you can opt to receive a copy.  

[jelloshots4all]

I work in finance and I don't understand the broad strokes on how we would treat a DUI different than other professions. Heck when I was at a Big 6, one of our partners received a DUI and they hired him a driver.

I have an IT guy whom works for me. 2 years ago he was an intern and received his 3rd DUI/underage drinking, etc. He was 26 at the time and the 2 previous happened before and at 21 yrs of age. I could have fired him, but instead sat him down and had a long talk about what he was doing with his life, how I could fire him, and he better straighten up his butt. I gave him 60 days to prove himself. He has and we hired him FT and he has been a great employee.

I oversee HR and when we do background checks it is EXTREMELY hard to find employees whom don't have something in their background check for manufacturing positions.  If they are open and honest and really want to work, we are open to them.  I believe in giving people second chances.  There are bad people and there are people whom have made a bad choice.  I don't want the later to haunt them forever.

[chiver78]

Jun 14, 2015 16:45:11 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

When I was at Jury Duty, they asked if anyone had ever been convicted of a DUI, and half the people raised their hand.  They all had jobs - so, there is life after DUI.

I struck up a conversation in court while waiting when I went in to challenge a speeding ticket awhile back, expecting a story like my own, only to find out the guy was there for a DUI charge. I was floored to realize how many others were there to face DUI charges too. the unemployment rate isn't that high.....I can't imagine these folks are automatically unemployable.

[Deleted]

Jun 14, 2015 20:03:39 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Jun 14, 2015 16:45:11 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

When I was at Jury Duty, they asked if anyone had ever been convicted of a DUI, and half the people raised their hand.  They all had jobs - so, there is life after DUI.

I struck up a conversation in court while waiting when I went in to challenge a speeding ticket awhile back, expecting a story like my own, only to find out the guy was there for a DUI charge. I was floored to realize how many others were there to face DUI charges too. the unemployment rate isn't that high.....I can't imagine these folks are automatically unemployable.

If you already have a job, they don't get to fire you for getting a DUI; although some places I worked did have a provision in the hiring documents that if you were convicted of a criminal offense you would be discharged.

I'm just saying that at the preferred, large employers I have worked at, they screen out any applicant with convictions as "not hireable". Does not matter if it is for being a pedophile, drunk, drug user, thief or domestic violence. You are not getting hired if there is anything on your record. 

[Opti]

Jun 14, 2015 19:16:45 GMT -5 @rockit said:

Jun 14, 2015 17:01:20 GMT -5 Opti said:

Good to know. Thanks for posting this. That makes me feel that in general a criminal record is worse than a

bad financial record, i.e. CC debt, foreclosure.

I have never had an employer pull a credit check. I do not work in finance areas & expect them to be different. I had control of up to $125M in annual spend, but there were controls and quarterly audits.

I think every employer in the last 10 years has done a background check + verified degrees and certifications. Here they have to notify you that they are doing background check and you can opt to receive a copy.  

How would you know if they had or had not done a credit check? A criminal background check? Once you give them your SS and sign the disclosure papers they have the choice to do or do not.

Did you not sign a form with your SS before you were employed?

[chiver78]

Jun 14, 2015 17:02:03 GMT -5 @wxyz said:

England, Europe, Central America, Mexico we had absolutely no issues.  Canada was a bitch.  We were often searched with dogs coming back into the US also from Canada.  We knew all the boarder check points in Texas, Arizona, California, New Mexico, etc and were often searched with dogs at those also.  These are often 50-100 miles from the border.  There was a police check point on the road to Hoover Dam where you could be stopped.

totally just my own curiosity, but did you have a DUI history in your vehicle? I've travelled extensively for work (mostly Europe), fun (mostly Mexico/Caribbean) and family (Canada) on dual US/CAN passports and spent my childhood pretty much getting run thru the wringer for the Canadian land border crossings due to Mom being American and Dad being Canadian. that's all I knew, until crossing in college with all American classmates and just sailing thru. I'm actually surprised to hear someone else have problems.