moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Jun 15, 2015 22:34:06 GMT -5
Ryan, I'd suggest you quit trying to pick a fight.
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saveinla
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Post by saveinla on Jun 15, 2015 22:41:00 GMT -5
Never been to Disney world, but I love Disneyland - live close and have been there too many times to count. We have traveled all over the world, but I like Disney. We take a day trip, spend time away from reality and I really enjoy the people watching - I go on a few rides, eat some junk food, watch the laser or fireworks and come back home after the park closes.
If you know how to work the fast pass option, you don't have to stand in line too much. We also go during the less crowded season when all the crazy tourists are mostly gone.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 23:17:36 GMT -5
Hell, I spent waaaay more time waiting to get into Versailles than any line at Disney. That was a line!
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bobosensei
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Post by bobosensei on Jun 16, 2015 2:49:31 GMT -5
I've been to Disney World three times. The first time I was 13 or so and went with a club at school. We took a bus from north Georgia down, stayed in motels 4 to a room, and visited Disney, Universal, Sea World, and the beach. This was in the mid 90s and was 400 a person. All I remember is that we got 5 dollars for lunch each day from the people running the tour, and it wasn't enough to eat. I had to use part of my money from my mom for food that was supposed to be covered in the price.
The second time I went with my mom, siblings, and some friends a few years later. We bought hopper passes, but ended up not using up all the days. The last time we went 13 years later we used up the last days on the hopper passes so we had no ticket cost. One of them didn't work, and the guest relations replaced it immediately, no questions asked. On that trip I remember thinking that the food wasn't as expensive as I remembered. Now, we were also visiting the park in early November so maybe food prices are seasonal or maybe it's just that I finally was an adult with a real job... The only reason we went the last time was because we had the 2 days left on the hopper tickets that needed to be used and probably wouldn't be that close to the park again without making a deliberate trip.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 16, 2015 8:12:01 GMT -5
My kids asked if we could run over one weekend to go to Disneyland this summer. I said no, but we could go in the fall. Summers are pretty miserable in the park. Hot and crowded (and generally crowds don't bother me.) We have always tried to go during fall break - and try to go on Thursday. There are still a lot of people there, but it is much more tolerable.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jun 16, 2015 8:48:49 GMT -5
I've been to DW 5 times, twice as a kid, once in college, once as a tagalong business bonus trip (stayed onsite). The final time was during my honeymoon. We used the remaining day or 2 left on the parkhopper passes bought during the college trip 10 years before. I liked staying onsite the worst, as it felt like we stood around waiting for the shuttle bus most of the time. (Maybe it was the company. ) Now that we have 2 munchkins, we'd like to take them, but the cost is delaying it and will limit the # of times we go. DH's old college roommate lives north of Orlando, so I wonder if he could get us discount tickets? The invention of the fast pass has helped a lot, but there can still be pretty long waits. I'd say they're comparable to the waits at Cedar Point. Speaking of CP, I've gotten too old for it. IIno longer have any desire to ride the giant roller coasters. Sorry kids! Glad you have each other! Versailles, I don't remember any line there at all. The craziest-looking line I've ever waited in was to get into the Shedd Aquarium on a holiday weekend. (Since ride lines are deceptively long--made to look shorter--I'm not sure it was the longest, but it seemed like it!)
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jun 16, 2015 9:11:19 GMT -5
Atlanta's aquarium was awesome. Far and beyond what I expected. We got discount tickets in connection with the football game we were in town for. Yes, I agree - we had the in-laws with us on that trip and all of us enjoyed it very much. I would go back to Atlanta, we had a great time on that trip.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2015 11:04:39 GMT -5
I loved the comments in the original article- so many people complaining that Disney was mean and greedy and should make their prices more affordable. Hey, I want a lot of things I see in the windows of jewelry stores but I don't whine that they should mark down the price of their $18,000 bracelet to something I'm more willing to pay.
Disney does have a superb service component; the earlier story about their handling the special dietary needs of someone with celiac disease is a good example. A friend who took one of their cruises raved on FB about how EVERY business should be run like Disney. I pointed out, of course, that Disney cruises are much higher-priced and that much of the superb service is delivered by people from developing countries who are not subject to US wage laws because the ships are flagged in another country (Bermuda, IIRC). They also just outsourced a lot of their IT work and made their US-based IT people train the outsourced people to do their work. You didn't get your final paycheck till they were confident that you'd trained your replacement properly.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Jun 16, 2015 11:35:37 GMT -5
I've never been to Disney World, but I would like to go at least once. I grew up in southern CA and went to Disneyland when it opened and many times thereafter and enjoyed it every time. I am particularly fond of Mr. Toad's Wild Ride. The only thing I have never liked about Disneyland is the Small World ride. About halfway through, I want to leap out of the boat and start ripping the heads off those dolls to make them STOP SINGING THAT SONG.
Now I really want to go on Mr. Toad's Wild Ride. It looks like I'm going to have to plan a trip to WDW before long. And maybe visit Epcot Center, too.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2015 12:07:30 GMT -5
The only thing I have never liked about Disneyland is the Small World ride. About halfway through, I want to leap out of the boat and start ripping the heads off those dolls to make them STOP SINGING THAT SONG.
A comedian once suggested that It's a Small World would make a great shooting gallery- issue everyone a BB gun and let them shoot at the figures as they rode through.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 16, 2015 12:14:50 GMT -5
I hate the Small World ride - everything about it makes me stabby.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Jun 16, 2015 12:40:35 GMT -5
I don't really get the love or hate of Disney, it's something to do, somewhere to go just like anything else. I went once and I thought it was great. Lots of rides (I love rides), cool water parks, nice clean hotel, easy transport (I was in the park). DH has never been. I'd like to go with the kids when they're both old enough to ride all the rides and really maximize the day (not stopping for naps etc), so maybe when they're around 9 and 12.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Jun 16, 2015 12:49:35 GMT -5
The only thing I have never liked about Disneyland is the Small World ride. About halfway through, I want to leap out of the boat and start ripping the heads off those dolls to make them STOP SINGING THAT SONG.
A comedian once suggested that It's a Small World would make a great shooting gallery- issue everyone a BB gun and let them shoot at the figures as they rode through. That would be an excellent addition to the ride. Until the inevitable bozo had the inevitable stupid inspiration to turn the BB gun on the other people. And you know it would be about 5 minutes before some idiot handed the BB gun to his 4-year-old.
It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye.
I think I'll just stick to Mr. Toad's Wild Ride.
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trimatty471
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Post by trimatty471 on Jun 16, 2015 13:36:34 GMT -5
I'm sure I will be met with disbelief, or be flamed for this, but oh well.
i've never been to disney. i have NO DESIRE to go to disney. i can't see spending that kind of money to stand in line in huge crowds. no thanks.
my sister offered to take my son and he didn't want to go either. i encouraged him to go if he wanted to, but he wasn't interested. I believe you. Prior to going to Disneyland when I was 26 which was not planned. I never gave Disneyland or Disney World a second thought. As kids, we never asked our parents to take us. Now I may get flamed, I never even read the Disney stories. I probably saw 10 out of the whole Disney series. And those were as an adult. I made myself watch. My parents could not afford it. And we were too busy making up games to play.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jun 16, 2015 14:03:51 GMT -5
Like I said earlier, we just took the kids on a week long trip to Disneyland. Prior to that, C and I spent around 3 or 4 days at DisneyWorld for our honeymoon, and I spent 2 days at EuroDisney back in the 90s, and one after noon in the late 80s at Disneyland. I was 13 before I ever went to a Disney park and didn't go again until I was 18 and in Paris over Bastille Day weekend. I went to EuroDisney to AVOID the long lines the other kids in our group were experiencing at the Bastille and the Louvre. (Due to a mugging the first night we were there, they wouldn't let any of us go out to Versaille.)
Here's the thing about the original question - is the middle class being priced out of Disney? My answer is still "no". Maybe as a member of the middle class you don't get the Disney Resort suite and 7 day park hopper passes and have a character breakfast every morning, but that doesn't mean you can't go. And yes, the further away you live, the more expensive it is. The cost of plane tickets is not the fault of Disney, so you really can't take that into account when figuring the costs. You stay in a non-Disney hotel that is walking distance from the park, or take public transit, or pay for the special shuttles (still cheaper than staying in a Disney property). You bring in your own food (you're allowed to do that), or walk out of the park to eat at a nearby restaurant. The IHOP right across from Disneyland has a "kids eat free" every night. Our family of 4 ate there for $25+ tip. (I don't really like IHOP, but the kids love pancakes.) You don't get a park hopper pass. You decide today we're going to Disneyland. Tomorrow we're going to California Adventure. You don't need to do both parks in the same day.
And no one says anyone has to like Disney. C grew up on Disney. The girls wanted to go. And I wanted to actually see Disneyland. We had friends who were going at the same time (for the Star Wars convention), so we met up with them, and would have had a great time if my daughter hadn't decided to have an attitude. (And she still had a great time during the times she wasn't with our foster daughter.)
I saved a considerable amount of money for the trip, specifically so we could do a character breakfast and buy the girls princess dresses. But I'm pretty certain we're middle class, so I am also pretty certain that the middle class aren't being priced out. (I actually think one of the problems is that many people want to think of the top end of the working poor as middle class, and yes, that creates an issue.)
But don't pretend that other destinations are cheaper, if you have to fly there, stay in a hotel, and get food at restaurants. DC was incredibly expensive, there were crowds everywhere, and while seeing the Lincoln Memorial means a lot to me, guess what, it's less fun than a roller coaster - for kids AND me. That doesn't mean I won't ever take Pop Tart to DC, or down to Colonial Williamsburg, because I will. And it will be ridiculously expensive to fly there and to stay in hotels and to buy all of our meals at restaurants and there will be crowds and lines....
And if I don't want crowds and lines, I'd love to take her to some of the off the beaten path places we saw in England, but there's still the flight, the hotel, the food, and then add the exchange rate.
Vacations that aren't driving two hours for a weekend trip in the woods (which I'm totally not knocking) are expensive. And even those can be expensive if you decide you need an RV or camper, or have to buy all the equipment you've never used before and after sleeping on the ground decide you'll never use again.
So go to Disney if that's your thing. Don't go to Disney if it's not your thing. If it's not worth it to you, then it's not worth it to you. But don't pretend that vacations in general aren't expensive, or that Disney (or even theme parks) are the only places you'll run into crowds. (Most camping grounds in WA state are already booked solid for the summer.)
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 16, 2015 14:07:25 GMT -5
I remember my first trip to Disney World. I was 6 yrs old. To me it truly was magical. All those characters walking around, the Pirates of Caribbean ride, the fireworks, the electric parade... We went back when I was around 13 and it was nowhere near the same feeling for me. If I had kids I would take them to Disney once or twice while they are young enough to enjoy it and old enough to remember it. As an adult, I don't particularly care to go back. For the money there are MANY others places I would rather go but to each their own. As for it being priced out of the middle class... it is just like anything else, you can go first class or you can go on a budget. ETA: Actually, I take it back... I would like to go back to Disney one more time before I am too old to stand in lines and walk around the park. I am only 42 so hopefully I have a while.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2015 14:07:28 GMT -5
Prior to going to Disneyland when I was 26 which was not planned. I never gave Disneyland or Disney World a second thought. As kids, we never asked our parents to take us. Now I may get flamed, I never even read the Disney stories. I probably saw 10 out of the whole Disney series. And those were as an adult. I made myself watch. My parents could not afford it. And we were too busy making up games to play. We did watch "The Wonderful World of Disney" on TV so we were exposed to it to some extent. I'm old enough that when I was a kid only Disney World in Anaheim had been built. A family of 7 going there from Ohio was out of the question. Plane fares were proportionately a lot higher (in return for an experience that's much closer to Business/First Class now) and only the wealthy flew on planes. I first went to WDW for an actuarial meeting. It was OK- I liked the water park and the pools. Didn't get inside the Magic Kingdom till I went with DS when I was close to 40. Meh. Once is enough. I had a Board meeting at WDW on a Sunday the day before our society's regular meeting Monday-Wednesday and flew in Saturday, met with the Board Sunday and left on Monday. Here's my review of the Contemporary Resort. One of my best, I think! www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g34515-d85986-r7925451-Disney_s_Contemporary_Resort-Orlando_Florida.html
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Jun 16, 2015 14:10:07 GMT -5
Oops - double post
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Jun 16, 2015 14:28:50 GMT -5
I don't think the middle class is being priced out either. A lot of my coworkers rent beach houses in the Outer Banks for a week over the summer. I'd say we're all solidly middle class. I picked the same week in September (so prices are actually not at the peak for the beach house) and did a beach house (I don't know the best beaches, never been, so I picked Kitty Hawk) and then did Disney (I picked Animal Kingdom Lodge - deluxe, top range). A beach house, just the house, no food, etc., is going to cost you almost $3,000 for the week (it was oceanfront). You will need your own transportation to visit the grocery store, go out to see, go to any other sights you want to see, etc. Disney, including transportation to/from airport if you are flying, room, dining plan, 7 day parkhopper passes, and transportation to/from parks - $4,400. That was for a family of 4. I did not include transportation costs to the destination in either total - whether driving or flying. So Disney is more expensive, but includes 7 days of entertainment and meals for 4 people. I don't think that is out of line at all with what the middle class can afford. Just for fun. Did a Disney moderate resort - $3,100. Value (does reduce the dining plan to two quick service meals instead of 1 table service/1 quick service) - $2,400. So Disney is actually quite a bit cheaper if you scale down your resort level. I also find the assumptions on this thread hilarious - that people who enjoy Disney don't have any imagination, can't create their own games to play as kids, never visited anywhere historical, never traveled internationally, etc.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jun 16, 2015 14:31:48 GMT -5
Well, let's define middle class. What middle class numbers are we using? In my state, the middle class income is 34K-102K. www.businessinsider.com/middle-class-in-every-us-state-2015-4I'm going to go out on a limb and say that even doing Disney on the cheap isn't accessible for middle class folks making 34K/year, particularly if children are involved, and if you live far away. Median income in my state is 51K. That's my day job salary. With three kids, there's no way we can save up for a 3K vacation on that salary. Well, we could. But then our kids would have no activities or braces, and we'd be saving nothing for retirement. And actually, 51K is dancing close to 175% of the federal poverty line. My family would also qualify for WIC, reduced lunches at school, and get my kids into activities free through the rec department. Now, at a "middle class" income of closer to 80K, yes, a few Disney trips would be doable..Actually, if we weren't paying for private school, we could totally afford to spend up to 8% of our gross income on vacations yearly.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Jun 16, 2015 14:43:38 GMT -5
steph08 Oceanfront? Whoa, big spender over here! You have to stay soundside to get an awesome beach house price. Lol. I grew up going to Nags Head and my sister still goes there because it's not as expensive as the Jersey shore. You can actually get a rental for less than $1000 (depending on house size, etc). :-)
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Jun 16, 2015 14:45:54 GMT -5
steph08 Oceanfront? Whoa, big spender over here! You have to stay soundside to get an awesome beach house price. Lol. I grew up going to Nags Head and my sister still goes there because it's not as expensive as the Jersey shore. :-) I've never been so I don't know! They all talk about staying on the beach/walking right out to the beach though. But I've never rented a beach house, so I have no idea! But from previous conversations, I have heard them discuss paying $2-$2.5k for a week.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Jun 16, 2015 14:51:27 GMT -5
steph08 Oceanfront? Whoa, big spender over here! You have to stay soundside to get an awesome beach house price. Lol. I grew up going to Nags Head and my sister still goes there because it's not as expensive as the Jersey shore. :-) I've never been so I don't know! They all talk about staying on the beach/walking right out to the beach though. But I've never rented a beach house, so I have no idea! But from previous conversations, I have heard them discuss paying $2-$2.5k for a week. Haha, just ribbing you! I would totally rent a place for $2k with some friend couples. Makes it even cheaper! And fun. We go down the shore with hubs' family every July. We don't pay so I don't balk at the price tag for an ocean block house, though it would make me ill if I was paying!
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Jun 16, 2015 14:58:27 GMT -5
We rented a condo in Hilton Head with some friends of ours a few years ago. Hilton Head must be the most boring beach place ever!
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jun 16, 2015 14:59:48 GMT -5
Like I said earlier, we just took the kids on a week long trip to Disneyland. Prior to that, C and I spent around 3 or 4 days at DisneyWorld for our honeymoon, and I spent 2 days at EuroDisney back in the 90s, and one after noon in the late 80s at Disneyland. I was 13 before I ever went to a Disney park and didn't go again until I was 18 and in Paris over Bastille Day weekend. I went to EuroDisney to AVOID the long lines the other kids in our group were experiencing at the Bastille and the Louvre. (Due to a mugging the first night we were there, they wouldn't let any of us go out to Versaille.)
Here's the thing about the original question - is the middle class being priced out of Disney? My answer is still "no". Maybe as a member of the middle class you don't get the Disney Resort suite and 7 day park hopper passes and have a character breakfast every morning, but that doesn't mean you can't go. And yes, the further away you live, the more expensive it is. The cost of plane tickets is not the fault of Disney, so you really can't take that into account when figuring the costs. You stay in a non-Disney hotel that is walking distance from the park, or take public transit, or pay for the special shuttles (still cheaper than staying in a Disney property). You bring in your own food (you're allowed to do that), or walk out of the park to eat at a nearby restaurant. The IHOP right across from Disneyland has a "kids eat free" every night. Our family of 4 ate there for $25+ tip. (I don't really like IHOP, but the kids love pancakes.) You don't get a park hopper pass. You decide today we're going to Disneyland. Tomorrow we're going to California Adventure. You don't need to do both parks in the same day.
And no one says anyone has to like Disney. C grew up on Disney. The girls wanted to go. And I wanted to actually see Disneyland. We had friends who were going at the same time (for the Star Wars convention), so we met up with them, and would have had a great time if my daughter hadn't decided to have an attitude. (And she still had a great time during the times she wasn't with our foster daughter.)
I saved a considerable amount of money for the trip, specifically so we could do a character breakfast and buy the girls princess dresses. But I'm pretty certain we're middle class, so I am also pretty certain that the middle class aren't being priced out. (I actually think one of the problems is that many people want to think of the top end of the working poor as middle class, and yes, that creates an issue.)
But don't pretend that other destinations are cheaper, if you have to fly there, stay in a hotel, and get food at restaurants. DC was incredibly expensive, there were crowds everywhere, and while seeing the Lincoln Memorial means a lot to me, guess what, it's less fun than a roller coaster - for kids AND me. That doesn't mean I won't ever take Pop Tart to DC, or down to Colonial Williamsburg, because I will. And it will be ridiculously expensive to fly there and to stay in hotels and to buy all of our meals at restaurants and there will be crowds and lines....
And if I don't want crowds and lines, I'd love to take her to some of the off the beaten path places we saw in England, but there's still the flight, the hotel, the food, and then add the exchange rate.
Vacations that aren't driving two hours for a weekend trip in the woods (which I'm totally not knocking) are expensive. And even those can be expensive if you decide you need an RV or camper, or have to buy all the equipment you've never used before and after sleeping on the ground decide you'll never use again.
So go to Disney if that's your thing. Don't go to Disney if it's not your thing. If it's not worth it to you, then it's not worth it to you. But don't pretend that vacations in general aren't expensive, or that Disney (or even theme parks) are the only places you'll run into crowds. (Most camping grounds in WA state are already booked solid for the summer.) How much does a hotel cost outside the gates of Disneyland in California? This is out of the question at WDW in Florida. Disney has their own freeway going into the complex with nothing for miles before reaching the parks. Nice touch on Walt's part. He wanted very penny he could get from the attendees, without letting anyone putting up just anything outside the entrance that would be a detriment, to WDW.
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lexxy703
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Post by lexxy703 on Jun 16, 2015 14:59:43 GMT -5
My ex & I used to rent an ocean front beach house in Nags Head every Summer for a week. We always picked September because the price dropped & it was almost deserted because the kids were back in school by then. Totally loved it. It was pricey for the house but it was worth it IMO.
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violagirl
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Post by violagirl on Jun 16, 2015 15:04:33 GMT -5
Never been to any Disneyland or World. Went to Florida once - did the whole Universal Studios, Busch Gardens. That was enough for me. No desire to ever go back.
Now kids, I can see liking Disney, maybe up to about 14? If I had to stand in a line a the Louvre or at Splash Mountain - I'd personally pick the Louvre, but on a hot day - maybe I'd think differently.
But I'm not really keen on crowds in general. Yeah, I put up with the crowds at the Trevi Fountain and in London but I preferred being in the countryside, so i don't think any vacation that involves large crowds will ever appeal to me.
I'd rather take my kids on a cross country camping trip than Disney. Disney is probably easier though.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jun 16, 2015 15:14:26 GMT -5
Well, let's define middle class. What middle class numbers are we using? In my state, the middle class income is 34K-102K. www.businessinsider.com/middle-class-in-every-us-state-2015-4I'm going to go out on a limb and say that even doing Disney on the cheap isn't accessible for middle class folks making 34K/year, particularly if children are involved, and if you live far away. Median income in my state is 51K. That's my day job salary. With three kids, there's no way we can save up for a 3K vacation on that salary. Well, we could. But then our kids would have no activities or braces, and we'd be saving nothing for retirement. And actually, 51K is dancing close to 175% of the federal poverty line. My family would also qualify for WIC, reduced lunches at school, and get my kids into activities free through the rec department. Now, at a "middle class" income of closer to 80K, yes, a few Disney trips would be doable..Actually, if we weren't paying for private school, we could totally afford to spend up to 8% of our gross income on vacations yearly. According to that list, it takes more income to be middle class in Wyoming than in Washington. So I don't know that I can actually trust that list. It also doesn't take into account family size. A single person earning just under $40k/yr - yes, they are middle class. A family of 4 earning $40k/yr, at least in the Seattle area, NOT middle class, working poor.
I would say to be middle class, you need $20k/year/person that salary is supporting, at least in the Seattle area, and even that is pushing it, because I'm not certain I would define a couple who brought in $40k/year as middle class, but I made just over $80k/year (when we went to Disneyland - I came back to an unexpected raise), and figure I'm middle class even with a family of 4, so yeah, it's tricky. And it is very dependent on where you live.
But this is about choices. You are NOT priced out of Disney because you are middle class. You are priced out of Disney because you choose to spend your money on private school. I can afford 3.75% of my income on a big vacation each year, but can't afford almost 20% of my income/year on private school.
What you choose to spend your money on is not the fault of Disney.
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giramomma
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Joined: Feb 3, 2011 11:25:27 GMT -5
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Post by giramomma on Jun 16, 2015 15:23:45 GMT -5
But this is about choices. You are NOT priced out of Disney because you are middle class. You are priced out of Disney because you choose to spend your money on private school. I can afford 3.75% of my income on a big vacation each year, but can't afford almost 20% of my income/year on private school.
What you choose to spend your money on is not the fault of Disney. Actually, we couldn't afford private school on my day job salary only, either. DH's income pays for private school, and my teaching pays for the extras. All together, we hit the sweet spot where we can take a bigger vacation every 2-3 years and a smaller vacation every year, even with private school. We choose not to go to Disney, because it doesn't really float our boat. But whatevs. I haven't gotten all anti-Disney here. But, at 50K, again, we would still be middle class and very priced out of Disney if we were financially responsible. If we weren't financially responsible, then, of course we could go to Disney.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Jun 16, 2015 15:23:49 GMT -5
Value Buy - According to the google maps, a night at a Disney owned resort is $530+/night at Disneyland. However, within walking distance (closer than I was staying, which was walking distance, just not with our bratty kids) you can get a room as low as $105/night, with $125-160 being a pretty average cost. Camelot Inn and Suites, which is literally just across the street from where the buses that take you into Disneyland park is $140/night
We did DisneyWorld before I really kept track of our spending. Everything went on a credit card. I do remember that we rented a car and paid for parking. But we also went in the morning, left in the heat of the afternoon, and came back in the evening most days, so the drive wasn't that long or awful.
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