82% of US public schools may be labeled "failing"

[ugonow]

There is a small trend towards that,paul. Many with no children do not want to pay for others kids education. I have heard this argument every time tax referendums come up.

[973beachbum]

Mar 10, 2011 12:05:29 GMT -5 ugonow said:

There is a small trend towards that,paul. Many with no children do not want to pay for others kids education. I have heard this argument every time tax referendums come up.

I would go with that if I can choose to not pay for the senior center or all the other thngs they use that I don't.

You don't get to choose what your taxes are spent on. If you don't want to pay school taxes then don't buy a house.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Actually, we DO get to choose what our taxes are spent on. There's a move to get school choice, OR entire communities will simply band together, and vote in a block to DE-FUND the school district. There are two districts-- and I can't seem to find them right now-- where residents in a failing district chose to defund the district entirely and close ALL the schools. They basically effectively disbanded the entire board, and fired all the teachers. They have since re-constituted under new leadership. But this is a choice we all have, if we will determine to make it.

[ed1066]

There are two districts-- and I can't seem to find them right now-- where residents in a failing district chose to defund the district entirely and close ALL the schools.

I believe one of those is Providence, RI

[ed1066]

I know someone who took brick laying. Personally, I think a good brick layer is an artist.

I think all good craftsmen are artists. The great cathedrals of the world were built by craftsmen. In many cultures, it's a lost art. It's getting very difficult to find brick layers, finish carpenters, masons, furniture builders, shipbuilders, potters, blacksmiths, etc. These are dying arts, I fear, especially in this country.

[973beachbum]

Mar 10, 2011 12:22:26 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Actually, we DO get to choose what our taxes are spent on. There's a move to get school choice, OR entire communities will simply band together, and vote in a block to DE-FUND the school district. There are two districts-- and I can't seem to find them right now-- where residents in a failing district chose to defund the district entirely and close ALL the schools. They basically effectively disbanded the entire board, and fired all the teachers. They have since re-constituted under new leadership. But this is a choice we all have, if we will determine to make it.

But they are not choosing to not fund education for the children in their district. They are choosing to defund/disband a failing school and start a new and hopefully good one.

[billisonboard]

Mar 10, 2011 12:22:26 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Actually, we DO get to choose what our taxes are spent on. There's a move to get school choice, OR entire communities will simply band together, and vote in a block to DE-FUND the school district. There are two districts-- and I can't seem to find them right now-- where residents in a failing district chose to defund the district entirely and close ALL the schools. They basically effectively disbanded the entire board, and fired all the teachers. They have since re-constituted under new leadership. But this is a choice we all have, if we will determine to make it.

Ain't this a great country!

[billisonboard]

Mar 10, 2011 12:35:15 GMT -5 @ed1066 said:

I know someone who took brick laying. Personally, I think a good brick layer is an artist.

I think all good craftsmen are artists. The great cathedrals of the world were built by craftsmen. In many cultures, it's a lost art. It's getting very difficult to find brick layers, finish carpenters, masons, furniture builders, shipbuilders, potters, blacksmiths, etc. These are dying arts, I fear, especially in this country.

Unfortunately what is happening in our schooling system with NCLB is not helping.

[marjar]

Mar 10, 2011 12:35:15 GMT -5 @ed1066 said:

I know someone who took brick laying. Personally, I think a good brick layer is an artist.

I think all good craftsmen are artists. The great cathedrals of the world were built by craftsmen. In many cultures, it's a lost art. It's getting very difficult to find brick layers, finish carpenters, masons, furniture builders, shipbuilders, potters, blacksmiths, etc. These are dying arts, I fear, especially in this country.

We agree on something?! I have great admiration for people who work with their hands and minds. A good mason, carpenter, etc. is an artist and there is something to be said from building from scratch, without the use of modern technology.

[Shirina]

Many with no children do not want to pay for others kids education.

Greed, greed, and more greed. America is the most selfish nation on the planet, and that is going to come back and haunt us in future years. Perhaps when it does, you'll somehow remember this post, because, with this kind of attitude, it's inevitable that we as a nation will not survive.

[rockon]

Yep greed is a large part of many problems but is a basic human fault of many of us so it's more likely that we will always deal with this problem.
NCLB was a program that got almost complete bipartisan support in Washington so maybe we don't want these guys working together after all.
Better to get the feds out of our school system and let them have local control and support.

[formerexpat]

No Child Left behind was a clusterf**k idea that fast tracked the destruction of our schools.....


and now which President was it that came up with it and thought it was the greatest thing ever? When in reality it's so broken and so eff'ed up that our children's educations are suffering....

Damn that Ted Kennedy meddling in our education system. And now we've got another one of his life's work, the health care bill, jammed down our throats.

Can't wait to see how that one turns out. [/size]

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Many of you are not aware that one of the reasons I am so difficult to sway is that I come from a long line of Chicago / Cook County Democrats. They left the party after Jimmy Carter as "Reagan Democrats" and while nobody is moving back to the Democratic Party, they aren't what you'd call steeped in the ideology of the right / libertarian / conservative movement in America. So, they still have some populist, if not outright liberal ideas- and I alwasy find them contradictory.

One of the biggest contradictions of the left / those prone to populist idealism is this idea that we're losing the craftsmen and artisans in America. First of all, it's simply not true- but more to the point, the contradiction is this education obsession. Do brick layers need a college degree? How about stone masons? And all the rest?

How is it we can raise our kids- like I was raised- to get a good education so you can work with your mind instead of your back- and then lament that Americans don't want to do the sh** jobs, the arduous jobs, or go into the trades, and/or become craftsmen and artisans?

Can't have it both ways unless we turn schools back into places where we LEARN THE BASICS, and we learn them very well-- we lay OFF the propaganda, stop subsidizing the five year party, and instead let people choose-- including insisting they direct their own resources in the direction they choose-- their own direction in life. It's an assumption that every kid is going off to college-- not true, nor could it be true, nor should it be true.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Greed, greed, and more greed. America is the most selfish nation on the planet, and that is going to come back and haunt us in future years. Perhaps when it does, you'll somehow remember this post, because, with this kind of attitude, it's inevitable that we as a nation will not survive.

It geniunely saddens me that you're so misinformed. You reside in the greatest nation in all of recorded history. We are THE most generous people on earth- second place isn't even worth an honorable mention.

I'll remember this post. It was a brief, abundantly clear communication of exactly the kind of glittering jewel of colossal ignorance the evil leaders on the left would be proud to know they helped chisel, shape, and polish- like the artisans of darkness they are.

[hello fromWarsaw]

Ted was in favor of the parts of NCLB that pubs didn't fund. Pubs and their silly dupes are also against orgs who produce craftsmen, called guilds or unions- their bottom line only mania doesn't fund art in any respect. See also the family farm, etc.

[ed1066]

Stop posting when you're sniffing glue! No one can understand you! ;D

[hello fromWarsaw]

Norway gives 17x per capita more in foreign aid than us- WE are not in the running. You are incredibly duped. ;D

[bimetalaupt]

Mar 10, 2011 20:05:02 GMT -5 Shirina said:

Many with no children do not want to pay for others kids education.

Greed, greed, and more greed. America is the most selfish nation on the planet, and that is going to come back and haunt us in future years. Perhaps when it does, you'll somehow remember this post, because, with this kind of attitude, it's inevitable that we as a nation will not survive.

It is all about separation of church and state....Many schools have done very well without the tax Dollars.. Unions have fought every time area school districts try to share income with voucher systems.. So who is selfish? St. Luke of the field is one of the best schools in New York..They have never received a single dime from the Union Based New York Education system yet they spend less per child to educate.


Bi Metal Au Pt

Attachments:

[bimetalaupt]

Mar 11, 2011 6:50:13 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Sorry, I'm siding with the "greed, greed, greed" line, and I'll add short-sightedness to the list too since the greed-balls aren't willing or able to think about the probable result of completely a completely ignorant population unable to master the most basic vocations, read, write or add.

I also think ignoring blue collar trades to try to put a shirt and tie on everyone is a colossal mistake. We need repair people, farmers, carpenters, business owners and many other vocations that require a different educational track from what we have now.

One reason that our education statistics are low in comparison to some nations is that we try to educate everyone while the others track one into a field early. We are good in that we protect late bloomers and the child who had stomach flu the day of the test, but it drags down performance too.

Perhaps we can drop the "I's got mines" attitude before more competent nations eat our lunch.

TT,
I am not sure where you are coming from but Farming is one of the most demanding professions.. The Universities like TAMU have made this country one of if not the most productive agriculture producers in the world. Add to that the Veterinarian Schools like Texas A&M University to Cornell in Up State New York.

I will agree with you on Education is a life long process. We have Seven High Schools in Taylor County Texas (Abilene).. All are after the students as The two new schools are Technical and Medical. Two of the schools are part of independent schools that are strong on academics and value of the houses you live in is effected by the rating of the school district.

The Medical High school is co-located with one of the larger universities. ACU has a high school also that is Co-Located with the university.. They will accept advance classes in the 4th year also as first year classes for the degree program. So if you work hard you can start with 30 hours and be a Sophomore.

I think four of the seven are in the 90% class with 93% being the best in Texas. As I recall Latin School has a 97.

We also have three Universities ( or four if you count Texas Tech Pharmacy School ), Cisco College has moved to Abilene,TX (it administration and consolidated the Nursing schools into one location), Texas State Technical Institution has created all kinds of education for needed skills.. like those huge Wind Turbine systems and the Grid.

Sorry, I think things are more of a local problem then many think.. We have a going school system here in Abilene,TX..

Bi Metal Au Pt

[Shirina]

One of the biggest contradictions of the left / those prone to populist idealism is this idea that we're losing the craftsmen and artisans in America. First of all, it's simply not true- but more to the point, the contradiction is this education obsession. Do brick layers need a college degree? How about stone masons? And all the rest?

LOL @ "education obsession."

Does a bricklayer need a college degree to lay bricks? No. But there are those among us, including myself, who believe that knowledge is its own reward or, put another way, knowledge for its own sake is a worthwhile endeavor.

An education isn't just about learning a career or vocation.

[marjar]

Mar 11, 2011 10:23:19 GMT -5 Shirina said:

One of the biggest contradictions of the left / those prone to populist idealism is this idea that we're losing the craftsmen and artisans in America. First of all, it's simply not true- but more to the point, the contradiction is this education obsession. Do brick layers need a college degree? How about stone masons? And all the rest?

LOL @ "education obsession."

Does a bricklayer need a college degree to lay bricks? No. But there are those among us, including myself, who believe that knowledge is its own reward or, put another way, knowledge for its own sake is a worthwhile endeavor.

An education isn't just about learning a career or vocation.

Exactly! A friend's son has a master's in music. He earns his keep making and repairing wood instruments. And he's well kept - his business is in Nashville and a successful one. Does his degree help him in his "carpentry" work? I've no doubt it does, but more importantly, it is something no one can take away from him.

[Shirina]

It's an assumption that every kid is going off to college-- not true, nor could it be true, nor should it be true.

The idea is to prepare kids to go to college if they WANT to go to college. You see, this is about offering a choice. If we assume this kid is going to be X and that kid is going to be Y, and then we begin prepping him in that direction only, then we are essentially denying that choice. Is that the kind of system you want? Because that is nothing short of a de facto caste system.

It geniunely saddens me that you're so misinformed. You reside in the greatest nation in all of recorded history. We are THE most generous people on earth- second place isn't even worth an honorable mention.

That's rather misleading since we are very generous when it comes to helping every other nation, but when it comes to helping our own people, we're stingier than Scrooge. As was stated, people are tired of educating other people's kids, and that stands as a testimony to our lack of generosity, to say nothing of our lack of vision.

If educating our youth is not a cost worthy enough to pay, then I have no conception of what would be. It seems the only tax expenditure that can never be too high is that spent on weapons of destruction.

I'll remember this post.

Please do.

It was a brief, abundantly clear communication of exactly the kind of glittering jewel of colossal ignorance the evil leaders on the left would be proud to know they helped chisel, shape, and polish- like the artisans of darkness they are.

What unmitigated rubbish. "Artisans of darkness"? Are you serious? "Evil leaders on the left"? Your comment came across as something worthy of a comedic parody skit, not a serious post. The hyperbole alone is a sight to behold.

[Shirina]

St. Luke of the field is one of the best schools in New York..They have never received a single dime from the Union Based New York Education system yet they spend less per child to educate.

St. Luke of the Field charges $30k per year to attend. Thus your argument that these schools do just fine without state money is completely moot. They just receive the money directly from the parents, but they're certainly not operating for free, and the high tuition makes it exclusive. How many people in America have $30k per year to shell out for their kid's K-8 education?

I really don't want to see education become yet another plaything of the rich. Again, this is starting to sound increasingly like advocating a caste system.

One reason that our education statistics are low in comparison to some nations is that we try to educate everyone while the others track one into a field early.

Personally I feel this is a good thing. I don't believe that your opportunities for a career should be decided by your 8th grade test results, and this is what some other nations do, especially in Asia. Many issues affecting education aren't even diagnosed yet. In our topsy-turvy culture where people move around a lot (causing children to change schools often), our 56% divorce rate (broken homes play havoc with education), and lack of consistency in regards to curriculum standards between districts (a bright kid in a bad school can ruin him), we don't need to track kids into specific career paths early.

Bottom line is that America provides a K-12 education, and then it is up to the kids and parents to decide upon graduation where to go next.

[ed1066]

Bottom line is that America provides a K-12 education

And they are doing a shit job of it...

[privateinvestor]

82% of US public schools may be labeled "failing
Read more: notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=politics&action=display&thread=4549#ixzz1GJP5MdSR


Not only failing but closing as well in Northern California and/or eliminating after school programs including athletics.

You get what you pay for in state government and we got eight years of Liberal and Progressive Democrats running our school system into the ground and now there is a movement to recall these elected officials and school board members because of the pent up anger and frustrations by parents and voters.

[Shirina]

Not only failing but closing as well in Northern California and/or eliminating after school programs including athletics.

Good, I'm heartened to see that Northern California has its priorities straight.

School has always been about receiving an education, not playing football. Far too often, the athletic departments are immune to cuts while kids in the classroom go without computers or text books with current information. After all, if the last president recorded in your history book is George H.W. Bush, you might think about getting some new ones.

While I'm all for schools offering sports and after-school programs, they should be the first things cut when money is tight.

I find it rather strange that conservatives are all about making cuts, but they're never satisfied with those cuts unless someone's salary, benefits, or welfare assistance is on the chopping block.

Someone once asked, "Does a bricklayer need a college degree?"

Well, I'm now asking, "Does a bricklayer need to play football?"

[privateinvestor]

Mar 11, 2011 12:26:21 GMT -5 Shirina said:

Not only failing but closing as well in Northern California and/or eliminating after school programs including athletics.

Good, I'm heartened to see that Northern California has its priorities straight.

School has always been about receiving an education, not playing football. Far too often, the athletic departments are immune to cuts while kids in the classroom go without computers or text books with current information. After all, if the last president recorded in your history book is George H.W. Bush, you might think about getting some new ones.

While I'm all for schools offering sports and after-school programs, they should be the first things cut when money is tight.

I find it rather strange that conservatives are all about making cuts, but they're never satisfied with those cuts unless someone's salary, benefits, or welfare assistance is on the chopping block.

Someone once asked, "Does a bricklayer need a college degree?"

Well, I'm now asking, "Does a bricklayer need to play football?"

California is in a unique position because we may be going into bankruptcy because of the budget deficits, so education is not the only dept in the state to take a hit. Public Safety, Public Workers, Social Services are all taking a big hit as well so I should have stated that when I made my comments about schools closing out here and colleges increasing their costs to undergrads..

BTW I personally know a lot of college educated who are out of work and would glady take a job as a Bricklayer Apprentice even those who are NON athletes... It is rather sad to see so many young folks out here every day at Starbucks using their laptops to find a job, any job just to pay their bills...And a few have been out of work for two or three years.

[wyouser]

What I find amazing is that we are suprised when students from our system are tested against others around the world and are then appauled that we dont score well. Hey guys...NObody has a system like ours. I remember a 16 year old exchange student who spent a year in our high school. She was set on becoming a veterinarian at home. At 16 she had already had THREE years of biology. We offer only one year of biology at this high school. Guess who would score better in a test??? German students take a test at age 10 that determines their future educational direction. Only 20% will be headed for college. The rest are directed at one of 2 vocational schools. I was told by a German professor in college that a german student on the collwege bound group will have the equivilant of an american high school education plus three years of college by the time that student takes the exit exam to graduate from a German Gymnasium. We tend to catch up by the 3rd year of college. Our system suppossedly allows 50% of our high school grads to attend college. They are not the same systems. Germans dont allow sports in their schools either. You want in Sports you pay to join a club. The same applies to band. we also have some problems with unfunded mandates from our politicians. For example around 1978 the feds mandated special needs students be in regular classes. THis put 3-4 students with a 3rd grade reading level in a senior 12th grad government class. One teacher 32 students....one on one things could be done with the special needs students..but what do you do with the other 28- 29 students? Or you could work the 28-29 students and leave the 3-4 special needs students...no extra funds...no aids???

[Deleted]

Oh there is a lot of funds for special ed... unfortunately thats where a lot of it goes... because law supports the parent requests for Free Appropriate Public Education in the Least Restrictive Environment... so that makes it hardre to cut...

[wyouser]

this is an interesting aside concerning all the debate currently on education, teachers , funding of education etc. "in the late 2nd century A>D>, a senetorial decree allowed for the granting of a bonus of 500 sestertii to a victorious gladiator if he was a free man, and of 400 sestertii if he was a slave (select Latin Inscriptions 5163.29ff), the amount that a schoolteacher might make in a year (Juvenal Satires 7.242) 2000 years..the more things change the more they stay the same??