Do you consider yourself patriotic?

[Phoenix84]

Do you consider yourself patriotic to your country of origin/residence? Are you proud to be a member of said country?

I know for most of us, this will apply to the United States, but I know we have some Canadians and one or two UK'ers floating around, as well as a few people who immigrated from other places.

And what does patriotism mean to you?

[MJ2.0]

I mean.... meh. 

[Phoenix84]

Jun 1, 2015 11:25:53 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

I mean.... meh. 

Is that a yes, no, or undecided? Expound upon this interesting viewpoint

[shanendoah]

Yes, I consider myself very patriotic, but not in what would be considered the conventional way.

My brother, father, two uncles, and both grandfathers served. One grandfather was career and served in 3 wars. On my father's side of the family, up until my generation (my much younger cousins) every male member of the family had served dating back to the Revolution. I have a ton of respect for the people who serve and the sacrifices they have made.

At the same time, I don't believe being patriotic in the US means never questioning our government or our military leaders. I believe in voting and working from the inside, but I also believe in protest; I believe in civil disobedience. I hate the signs that basically read "you hate the military, but as a member of our military, I will die for your right to be stupid" that are often posted as a way to supposedly shame or quiet critics of certain policies. I hate those signs because, in fact, the point of our military is to fight (and yes, sometimes for people to die) to protect our right to speak out against our government AND the military. That's exactly what the Founding Fathers wrote into our founding documents because guess what - they all fought, and knew MANY people who died, in order to have the right to speak against a government and it's polices.


Edited to add: To not use our voices, to not speak out against our government when we believe we need to speak, to keep our mouths shut out of some notion of "patriotism", to not use the rights those brave souls fought and died for, that would mean they died in vain. 

[Deleted]

I'm patriotic. My husband is extremely proud of being a veteran. There's even a real flagpole in our yard.

American is not perfect, but I am very grateful that I live here.

[yogiii]

My Dad was European and became a citizen in either his late 20s or early 30s.  He was crazy in love with the US.

[MJ2.0]

Jun 1, 2015 11:38:08 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Jun 1, 2015 11:25:53 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

I mean.... meh. 

Is that a yes, no, or undecided? Expound upon this interesting viewpoint

America is fine I guess. It could be better but it could certainly be a hell of a lot worse. It annoys me that most Americans want something for nothing. They/we want better public schools, paid extended maternity/paternity leave, more government oversight, etc. but aren't willing to pay more taxes. We only seem to care about what affects us personally instead of looking at the bigger picture (i.e. EVERYONE benefits if kids are educated better, not just parents). It's that self-centered attitude that irks me.

[ArchietheDragon]

USA! USA! USA!

[Tiny]

Jun 1, 2015 11:47:27 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

Yes, I consider myself very patriotic, but not in what would be considered the conventional way.

My brother, father, two uncles, and both grandfathers served. One grandfather was career and served in 3 wars. On my father's side of the family, up until my generation (my much younger cousins) every male member of the family had served dating back to the Revolution. I have a ton of respect for the people who serve and the sacrifices they have made.

At the same time, I don't believe being patriotic in the US means never questioning our government or our military leaders. I believe in voting and working from the inside, but I also believe in protest; I believe in civil disobedience. I hate the signs that basically read "you hate the military, but as a member of our military, I will die for your right to be stupid" that are often posted as a way to supposedly shame or quiet critics of certain policies. I hate those signs because, in fact, the point of our military is to fight (and yes, sometimes for people to die) to protect our right to speak out against our government AND the military. That's exactly what the Founding Fathers wrote into our founding documents because guess what - they all fought, and new MANY people who died, in order to have the right to speak against a government and it's polices.


Edited to add: To not use our voices, to not speak out against our government when we believe we need to speak, to keep our mouths shut out of some notion of "patriotism", to not use the rights those brave souls fought and died for, that would mean they died in vain. 

    except it's only my father who served (WWII). 


I'm not typical in the patriotism either... I HATE when the Pledge of Allegiance is used as a baseball bat to POUND 'patriotism' into someone - especially when they happen to be an atheist.   Besides there's some part of me that thinks pledging allegiance to a symbol like a flag is silly.    That said, I fly the U.S. flag on nice days thru out the summer in front of my house  - I make sure I bring it in at night (because I don't have a spot light for it) or when it rains.   I have read and understood the ways to display the flag with respect.   I don't think it's silly to treat a symbol with respect.   Don't get me started on the ways the I see other people fly the U.S. flag - usually in oh so wrong ways  or in terrible condition and yet I bet they'd be all for hanging someone who burned a flag...     ::whatever::

I also get annoyed when people try to piggyback a religion on to patriotism.   That bothers me.  I understand having religious beliefs and I get feeling/being patriotic.   They are separate things though, and not reliant on each other.  

[Tennesseer]

I am patriotic but I don't wear it on my sleeve.

[HoneyBBQ]

Eh.... not in the way most people are.

I'm happy to live here. I'll say that.

[weltschmerz]

Yes. I'm very patriotic.  I feel incredibly blessed to have been born in Canada. I love my country.

I don't love my current government.

Does my patriotism include flying flags and wearing patches and decals? Bumper stickers? No. We don't do that.

[swamp]

I love America. I love that I have right to tell our government they are being stupid.

[Miss Tequila]

I love America and feel blessed to have been born here. I'm with MJ, though...I am less and less proud of my country and my fellow citizens as the years go on.  We have gone from hard workers to a country of people that just want hand outs. Drives me freaking insane

[weltschmerz]

Jun 1, 2015 15:22:55 GMT -5 swamp said:

I love America. I love that I have right to tell our government they are being stupid.

That right isn't exclusive to America.

[swamp]

Jun 1, 2015 15:38:25 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Jun 1, 2015 15:22:55 GMT -5 swamp said:

I love America. I love that I have right to tell our government they are being stupid.

That right isn't exclusive to America.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I never said it was...............

I'm OK with Canada too.

[Phoenix84]

I don't think America is perfect, and there are certainly things that stand to be improved. I'm with Miss T in that I've gotten more and more dismayed as the years go that we seem more and more like a nation of whiners rather than "pull yourself up by the bootstraps."

But I think it's a great place to live, we have a long history of bravery, ingenuity, and hard work. Virtually all modern conveniences originated in America, from the automobile to the airplane to the internet to cell phones.

While our system of government isn't perfect, it's a heck of a lot better than in many countries run by ruthless, tyrannical dictators.  And a average citizen can get things done in the system without bribing everyone in their path, like in a lot of places.

All in all, I think it's a great place to live, and I'm proud of my country.

[msventoux]

I'm glad I was born here.  I like the ideals our system was founded on.  But I'm not a stereotypical guns and god flag waving patriot.  I'm critical of our government (both parties) and dismayed by the lack of industriousness and sense of responsibility of a lot of our citizens.  I'm sure there's better places to live.  I've no doubt there's many, many worse places to live. 

[thyme4change]

I think I feel about the USA the way many older brothers feel about their little sisters - don't think much about her or say anything nice about her, and will berate her for any little flaw, but the minute the kid up the street looks at her cross-eyed - I beat the shit out of him.

That seems like a sign that I take my freedoms and privileges for granted.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

I also live in Canada. I don't feel the need to be a flag-waver or paint my face with a Maple Leaf to show patriotism.

Our country has many great perks, and we also have some politicians who I'd like to see disappear into the sunset.

But overall, we're free, we're independent and we don't start wars. Our military are there to protect us, but they also step up to serve along side of US military when push comes to shove.

Compared to the US and other countries, our crime rate is also significantly lower.

[joemilitary]

Like others, I love the country and feel lucky to be born in the USA.

 However I agree with other posters that more and more people are becoming self interested in what they can "get" or what's in it for "themselves", rather than trying to be self sufficient.  I think this will be our downfall....al great societies eventually fall...

Also troubling is the lying, cheating and corrupt leaders we have in DC (and elsewhere)......however it's not as bad as some countries and eventually some of them over here get "caught"

[thyme4change]

Jun 2, 2015 4:35:57 GMT -5 joemilitary said:

Like others, I love the country and feel lucky to be born in the USA.

 However I agree with other posters that more and more people are becoming self interested in what they can "get" or what's in it for "themselves", rather than trying to be self sufficient.  I think this will be our downfall....al great societies eventually fall...

Also troubling is the lying, cheating and corrupt leaders we have in DC (and elsewhere)......however it's not as bad as some countries and eventually some of them over here get "caught"

Adam Smith took this human trait into account when writing about capitalism.  I heard a behavioral economist talking about it the other day.  Really interesting field of study.  

[MJ2.0]

I'm not even necessarily saying that it should be every man for themselves - I'm saying that people don't seem to realize that there is no free lunch. I think it would be wonderful for people to have 3-4 months government paid maternity/paternity/family care/adoptive child bonding leave, and I know many people feel the same. I am okay with being taxed for that, but most Americans are not. Americans want more US-made goods but balk at the higher prices of these goods. Realize that all choices have consequences and that you can't have anything for nothing.

[emma1420]

Not really.  Despite living in the US for 20 years I've never said the pledge of alliance (I don't get what is essentially praying to a flag), and I don't really get some of the holiday's here.  However, I vote, which consider patriotic.  

I grew up in the UK, and I consider myself slightly more patriotic.  I mean I'll support England in the World Cup, and Team GB in the Olympics.  

I'm not supportive of either the UK or the US's foreign policy (and I never have been, although that has more to do with the fact I'm a pacifist than my patriotism).  I am more supportive of the UK's domestic policy, which while flawed, I think is far better than most of the US's policies.  However, I feel blessed to have lived in two western nations, rather than being born into some third world hell hole that treats women like chattel.

[Blonde Granny]

I am so proud to be able to say I'm American!!! And I usually cry when I hear the National Anthem.

Once again this morning DH and I were at our local VA Medical Center.....The Price of Freedom is Visible There! Young men with missing arms or legs, my DH with his walker, some in wheelchairs, but all of them have served their country and are now paying the price for that service.

There may be things I don't agree with, but as the song says " And I gladly stand up next to you / And defend her still today / 'Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land / God bless the U.S.A.… "

[Deleted]

I love America.  Despite all her problems or perhaps because of her problems.  But I really hate the sort of mindless "patriotism" I see in uncounted emails (you know, "send this to your entire address book in 10 minutes or you are not a real American"), lapel pins and poorly displayed flags.  Several years ago we visited Germany and noted the absence of national flags on display at private homes.  Our tour guide told us that most citizens were aware of the potential for misuse of a symbol as the flag of the Third Reich was misused.  

[mroped]

It is a complicated issue. It is more like what I am/would be doing if...
All respect for the U.S. troops but not so much for those that make the decisions for them- also known as politicians.
Flags flying or lapels are not for me

Phoenix, neither automobile nor airplane were invented in US.
First airplane, a crude one as it may be was built about 100 years earlier than Wright Bros did it. I believe was an Englishman, Sir George Cayley or Cawley.
First automobile - 1885 Karl Benz

[Baby Fawkes]

I don't consider myself terribly patriotic. I have lived in the US for 10 years now and just qualified to apply for citizenship. I probably won't any time in the near future though. I do love this country otherwise I wouldn't still be living here 10 years later. I also love my country of citizenship, the UK. Personally I don't have any strong feelings towards where my citizenship lies though, unless I need to make changes for practical or legal reasons and then I'll have more of an opinion.

In my ideal utopia I would be able to be a citizen of the world and have the right to live and work wherever I like. While I was living in different countries I would have to pay the required taxes and abide by the laws etc, but I don't feel a strong emotional requirement to be associated with any particular country. From a practical point of view I completely understand why my utopian ideal would never work due to social welfare programs, government sponsored education etc. and that's where the emotional / practical divide in my view comes in. 

[Phoenix84]

Jun 3, 2015 10:45:38 GMT -5 Baby Fawkes said:

I don't consider myself terribly patriotic. I have lived in the US for 10 years now and just qualified to apply for citizenship. I probably won't any time in the near future though. I do love this country otherwise I wouldn't still be living here 10 years later. I also love my country of citizenship, the UK. Personally I don't have any strong feelings towards where my citizenship lies though, unless I need to make changes for practical or legal reasons and then I'll have more of an opinion.

In my ideal utopia I would be able to be a citizen of the world and have the right to live and work wherever I like. While I was living in different countries I would have to pay the required taxes and abide by the laws etc, but I don't feel a strong emotional requirement to be associated with any particular country. From a practical point of view I completely understand why my utopian ideal would never work due to social welfare programs, government sponsored education etc. and that's where the emotional / practical divide in my view comes in. 

Just curious. It does seem a fair number of people are immigrating from the UK to the U.S. I know a couple in RL and a few on this board. Why do UK citizens immigrate?

[Baby Fawkes]

Jun 3, 2015 11:48:22 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Jun 3, 2015 10:45:38 GMT -5 Baby Fawkes said:

I don't consider myself terribly patriotic. I have lived in the US for 10 years now and just qualified to apply for citizenship. I probably won't any time in the near future though. I do love this country otherwise I wouldn't still be living here 10 years later. I also love my country of citizenship, the UK. Personally I don't have any strong feelings towards where my citizenship lies though, unless I need to make changes for practical or legal reasons and then I'll have more of an opinion.

In my ideal utopia I would be able to be a citizen of the world and have the right to live and work wherever I like. While I was living in different countries I would have to pay the required taxes and abide by the laws etc, but I don't feel a strong emotional requirement to be associated with any particular country. From a practical point of view I completely understand why my utopian ideal would never work due to social welfare programs, government sponsored education etc. and that's where the emotional / practical divide in my view comes in. 

Just curious. It does seem a fair number of people are immigrating from the UK to the U.S. I know a couple in RL and a few on this board. Why do UK citizens immigrate?

Initially I came to the US with no plans to stay longer than my 3 year work visa. I was hired out of college to a company in Seattle. I then ended up meeting my DW within the first few weeks of being here. But the time my work visa was running out we were serious enough that my plans had changed and I ended up extending it until I finally got my green card after many years. For me this is now home, but my DW has plans to live outside the US at some point and would have no problem leaving the US and us moving back to somewhere in Europe, so there's still a decent chance that we ma leave the US for a longer period of time in the future. For now I stay because I like my job and until there is a pull somewhere else we'll be staying.