Trees Part 2

[Bonny]

These are pix from the take down of two 90' Eucalyptus trees that were on our neighbor's property but 90% of the tree was overhanging our property. Eucalyptus have what is called Sudden Limb Drop; a condition where a heavy limb can drop for no apparent reason. If that happened when someone was in our yard it could kill him or her.

We had to force the issue to get these trees removed. House owners had died and the "kids" who are about our age didn't want to do it. I understood their logic; trees had been there for 50 years with seemingly no problem and they were going to be very expensive to remove. I didn't want to mess with trimming. While legally we would be entitled to do that I didn't want to go through it again when the tree grew out again in 5 years. And from a liability reason I didn't want to be responsible if the tree fell over or dropped on limb on their house. Because I know a lawyer would throw that at us.

This took over a month to negotiate. We wound up loaning the neighbors the $11,500 which is secured by a Deed of Trust. No interest due in 90 days or when the house sells whichever is sooner. House went pending Thursday. Three offers sold about 45k over the listed price of $729k.

s1321.photobucket.com/user/pattona/slideshow/Trees%20Part%202?sort=2

[tskeeter]

Bonny, great solution to a difficult situation.  Shows how you can get things accomplished if you are creative enough.


Dang, that's some serious lumber. 

[Bonny]

And I forgot to tell you guys about the Eco Nazi and the youngest son.

On Thursday we had a woman park her Prius sideways across our driveway and who tossed a note at our doorstep. DH was in the kitchen and saw her march over our hill and into our next door neighbor's back yard. She told both the tree folks that were working on our back yard neighbor's trees and the tree folks who were working on my next door neighbor's trees to stop working.

DH yelled at me to come out and the woman started screaming at us that we couldn't take down the trees without a permit. She launched into a tirade about how she's been documenting all of this. I explained (in a loud voice) that you don't need a permit to remove Eucalyptus. I explained that the trees were on a neighbor's property and we were just being courteous about allowing them to use our property. I further explained that I did feel bad about the trees but I would feel worse if someone got killed or hurt by one of the limbs dropping. She huffed and said she was going to talk to the City. We told her "please do".

A little bit later I told DH that maybe I should go talk to her. There were probably a dozen of us including the two tree crews. I thought she might have felt threatened so I knocked on a door that I thought was hers. Turns out I met a very nice man who told me that she's known in the neighborhood as the "Eco Nazi". Apparently she's verbally harassed a few people in the neighborhood including him. She didn't like his porch light being on and tried to harangue him into getting a motion detector light. He wound up telling her 'No" and to leave his property. But the same kind of thing blocks someone's driveway, starts yelling at them and is generally unpleasant. The neighbor pointed out her house. He warned me to be prepared to be disappointed. I did try going over there but no one answered the door.

About an hour later we got a visit from the neighbor's son. This is the Big Tree neighbor. He was quite hostile and said that the trees had been there for a 100 years. I said "How do you know that they are 100 years old? Even two arborists couldn't tell me how old they were". Then he launched into how unnecessary this was and how 40 kids would be in the trees and we just made a fuss over a couple of little branches.

It was quite the day on Thursday starting with the Tree Company we used giving me a hard time about the deck stairs repair!

[Deleted]

I'll be honest, Bonny. You'd have a hard time getting me to borrow $11,500 from you to take down the trees when I was trying to settle the estate. From what you said, you felt the liability would fall on you if the branches that were on your side fell on someone. You must have convinced him that they were his liability?

And I really didn't understand your comment about the son of the Big Tree neighbor (the ones borrowing to take down the trees?.  What does "how 40 kids would be in the trees" even mean?  Your neighborhood kids climb these trees?

[Bonny]

May 25, 2015 18:48:10 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

I'll be honest, Bonny. You'd have a hard time getting me to borrow $11,500 from you to take down the trees when I was trying to settle the estate. From what you said, you felt the liability would fall on you if the branches that were on your side fell on someone. You must have convinced him that they were his liability?

The estate's trees, the estate's liability.

My concern was if I had my tree guys trim their trees (which is a remedy allowed by law) that if there were any subsequent problems such a limb falling onto the neighbor's house that they (or the subsequent owner of the house) would find an attorney who would claim that the trimming over my house would have injured the tree. This a tree on a hillside with multi-ton branches.

[Bonny]

May 25, 2015 18:48:10 GMT -5 @southernsusana said:

And I really didn't understand your comment about the son of the Big Tree neighbor (the ones borrowing to take down the trees?.  What does "how 40 kids would be in the trees" even mean?  Your neighborhood kids climb these trees?

Apparently 30 or 40 years ago (the heirs are about our age) kids used to play in the trees. We've owned the house for 20 years; there's not been any kids playing in those trees for at least that long.

ETA: I certainly had empathy for someone mourning the trees. I hated to cut them down because they were pretty magnificent. But these trees were never maintained and posed a real danger to anyone in our yard. The fact that neither Eco Nazi or Youngest Son had any understanding or empathy for our situation said to me that they were unreasonable people.

And the more I found out about them, the more my theory was confirmed.

[Jaguar]

Congrats Bonny, I'm glad you got the know how and the push that's needed to get these jobs done. My late sister went through hell getting a bunch of dead pine trees down between her and the next neighbors yards.

[hoops902]

So in summary, the neighbor had trees, you didn't want the trees there, the neighbor didn't seem to care if the trees were there, you convinced the neighbor to pay over $10k to remove trees that you didn't want by simply loaning them the money up front?

Is there something missing here?  Why in the world would they cut down their trees at their expense to appease you?

[Tiny]

May 27, 2015 14:33:37 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

So in summary, the neighbor had trees, you didn't want the trees there, the neighbor didn't seem to care if the trees were there, you convinced the neighbor to pay over $10k to remove trees that you didn't want by simply loaning them the money up front?

Is there something missing here?  Why in the world would they cut down their trees at their expense to appease you?

I think the part you are missing is that the trees are now too big for the area they are in - and have become a potentail hazard.    I suspect the trees were already really big and would continue getting BIGGER.

This happens where I live too.  There are 100+ year old sycamores towering over houses/garages in the middle of yards. Mind you a wide lot is 50 feet wide by upto 180 feet long... the house and garage are in that area... and it's one 'lot' next to another.  If one of the sycamores gets uprooted and falls - it's pretty much going to take out a house and a garage ( and possibly NOT the house/garage associated with the yard it's growing in).   The new owners of houses generally opt to have the tree removed. 

A close to hundred year old Maple got taken down a month ago.  There was an article in the local paper - it had a 16 foot circumference.  It was in a 'postage stamp' sized yard.  the owners had it cut down - because a large branch fell during a storm last summer and demolished the neighbor's garage and damaged a second one.   They were concerned about the rest of the tree (which didn't look like it had lost a branch...) falling at some point.

A one hundred year old catalupa tree came down during a microburst a couple of years ago... it fell across the street (blocking it completely) and took out the corner of a Victorian's front porch and damaged the second story and roof too.  If it would have fallen few feet to the left it would have crashed into the roof and into a front bedroom of the Victorian.   

People get a little nervous around really TALL really old trees that are close to buildings.  

Decades ago my mom had what was then an 80 plus  year old gi-fricken-normous Cottonwood tree in our yard taken down because she started worrying about it coming down in a storm  or just loosing a branch or two in a storm.  The tree towered over our house, our neighbors house and the garages.   Remember the lots are only up to 180 feet long (sometimes shorter) so a 100 foot tree towards the back of a lot - has alot of 'targets' it can hit. 
 
I guess where I'm going is I do understand why it would feel like a good thing to take down the trees (and it probably really IS a good thing long term).  I also totally understand the sadness with having to do it.

I had a poorly placed white pine in my back yard... it finally go wide/tall enough to start threatening my house (and a neighbors)  not to mention that needles would start becoming an issue on our roofs/gutters.  And man could that tree drop needles.    When if was 'smaller' it was just annoying and in a bad spot - once it started becoming a problem for the houses I decided to have it removed - rather than deal with the problems it would soon be causing.      Took a crew of 5 guys, a crane, a large flatbed truck (to take the cut up peices of trunk and large branches), and a woodchipper + truck and about 3 hours of none stop work to remove it. 

I was sorry to see it go.  but also kind of relieved.  The thing to remember is -- it would have just kept getting BIGGER - it wasn't anywhere near full grown.

Sometimes you have to do it. 

 

[hoops902]

::This happens where I live too. There are 100+ year old sycamores towering over houses/garages in the middle of yards. Mind you a wide lot is 50 feet wide by upto 180 feet long... the house and garage are in that area... and it's one 'lot' next to another. If one of the sycamores gets uprooted and falls - it's pretty much going to take out a house and a garage ( and possibly NOT the house/garage associated with the yard it's growing in). ::

But they're selling the house, and aren't going to be responsible if an act of God uproots the trees anyways.  I get it if the home buyer says "Here's my offer, contingent upon you removing the trees first".  I also get it if they were living in the house and worried about the tree falling.  The piece I don't get is that the trees really aren't a problem to them in any way, but they're taking them down at their own expense because the neighbor wants them to.

It just seems odd that without anything truly wrong with the trees, they're taking this hit when the entire thing would no longer be any part of their problem very soon. 

All trees are a potential hazard...hell...nearly everything is a potential hazard.   I understand why Bonny wants them down, I just can't imagine the argument she finally made in these negotiations which actually got them to do this.  (as in, i wonder if the  part I'm missing is that buyers had expressed concern over the trees already or something).

[Bonny]

May 27, 2015 15:37:52 GMT -5 hoops902 said:

::This happens where I live too. There are 100+ year old sycamores towering over houses/garages in the middle of yards. Mind you a wide lot is 50 feet wide by upto 180 feet long... the house and garage are in that area... and it's one 'lot' next to another. If one of the sycamores gets uprooted and falls - it's pretty much going to take out a house and a garage ( and possibly NOT the house/garage associated with the yard it's growing in). ::

But they're selling the house, and aren't going to be responsible if an act of God uproots the trees anyways.  I get it if the home buyer says "Here's my offer, contingent upon you removing the trees first".  I also get it if they were living in the house and worried about the tree falling.  The piece I don't get is that the trees really aren't a problem to them in any way, but they're taking them down at their own expense because the neighbor wants them to.

It just seems odd that without anything truly wrong with the trees, they're taking this hit when the entire thing would no longer be any part of their problem very soon. 

All trees are a potential hazard...hell...nearly everything is a potential hazard.   I understand why Bonny wants them down, I just can't imagine the argument she finally made in these negotiations which actually got them to do this.  (as in, i wonder if the  part I'm missing is that buyers had expressed concern over the trees already or something).

Eucalyptus in our area of the world are considered an invasive exotic species. They are very aggressive, crowd out the natives (like Redwoods) are toxic to plant life below and are known to negatively affect some bird species. They are called Blue Gum trees for a reason. They can clog up some birds breathing holes in their beaks. In general, the environmental folks hate them. That said I believe they also can provide habitat for other bird species and can be beautiful trees if maintained. I hated to take down our trees as well as theirs but they had overgrown the area and had become a hazard.

The reason I wanted them out is that 90% of the crown was overhanging our yard. Eucalyptus, as I've pointed out in a previous post, is subject to Sudden Limb Drop. The neighbor's trees unlike ours had never been maintained and were covered in ivy. That, according to the arborist, creates a kind of composting area which can rot and cause branch weakness as well. Keep in mind these limbs are 40' long and literally weigh tons. If one fell on someone in our yard it would kill them.

The people who owned the house for 50+ years died in the last two or three years. The oldest daughter was the Trustee and for some reason took title in her own name about a year and a half ago. She had the property surveyed about 9 months ago specifically to understand what trees were on the property. Because the surveyors needed permission to cross our property they explained what they were doing and we advised them that we were interested in speaking with her about the trees. We gave the surveyor our contact information. She made no contact with us but cut down other (smaller) trees on the property.

About 6 weeks ago we went to three of the neighbors and mentioned that we would be doing landscaping work and that now was the time to deal with the trees before the hardscape and landscaping got done. We were willing to let them remove the trees over our property (easier to deal with problem trees by going up and over our property than dragging them down over a very steep hill and longer distance over theirs). We spoke to two of the neighbors who were quite cooperative. We wound up leaving a note for the third (the big tree person). We got a call that evening from the Trustee who stated that they were selling the house, didn't have any money and to talk to their agent.

We had several go arounds with the agent. He's a nice guy, checked out the situation tried talking to her about the need to disclose et cetera. We also heard from one of the cooperative neighbors that they too, were having an issue with one of the (big tree neighbor's) trees which was a different tree. Apparently they have had two skylights broken from dropping limbs. And that tree is no where close to being as big as the trees we were dealing with. The agent did get bids for the trees. During one of the go-arounds we offered to lend the money provided that the loan was secured by a Deed of Trust. Concurrently DH talked to code enforcement, who to my surprise, agreed that the trees were a hazard. He encouraged DH to file a complaint if the owner wouldn't cooperate. When the agent came around to our house again with them once again trying to get out of it we advised him that we were disappointed but not surprised and that we would be filing a complaint with the City. And that I told him was something that he would absolutely have to disclose to a prospective buyer and it would affect a buyer's ability to obtain financing on the property. That finally did it. We agreed to hold off filing a complaint with the City so long as we saw action on their part and to her credit the Trustee finally did. She signed the promissory note and Deed of Trust and we lent her the $11,500. Trees came down last week. House sold multiple offer about $40k over list price in the $770k range. The five kids will be splitting around $650k net.

This was the IDEAL time to deal with the issue. The house is only 1050 sq.ft. and was likely to be a first time buyer who would be very broke for a while. They would like defer any action until something bad happened and then sue the seller for not adequately disclosing the problem. It would be a lose-lose all around.

And I guess I should also point out that the house had been on the market about a year and a half ago at $599k with no takers. They pulled it off the market and cleaned it up. They did o.k. and I believe we did the right long term thing for everyone.

[hoops902]

::Concurrently DH talked to code enforcement, who to my surprise, agreed that the trees were a hazard. He encouraged DH to file a complaint if the owner wouldn't cooperate. When the agent came around to our house again with them once again trying to get out of it we advised him that we were disappointed but not surprised and that we would be filing a complaint with the City. And that I told him was something that he would absolutely have to disclose to a prospective buyer and it would affect a buyer's ability to obtain financing on the property. That finally did it. We agreed to hold off filing a complaint with the City so long as we saw action on their part and to her credit the Trustee finally did. She signed the promissory note and Deed of Trust and we lent her the $11,500. Trees came down last week. House sold multiple offer about $40k over list price in the $770k range. The five kids will be splitting around $650k net.::

That was the piece I was missing.  I knew they weren't just doing it because it annoyed you.  It was a big black mark threatening the sale of the property.

Glad you got it dealt with before it became the new owners' problem.

[Bonny]

Well said Tiny!

hoops902, exactly. Unfortunately the "nice" neighbors (the next door neighbors of Big Tree neighbors) will be meeting the new owners with "Nice to meet you; please remove the tree overhanging our house". I mentioned the issues to the real estate agent but stayed out of it otherwise.

Trees Part 3 was allowing the above referenced "nice" neighbors to cut down and haul their dead ivy and poison oak covered trees up the hill and over our property. That work was done last Saturday. We brought it to their attention because I was pretty sure that they didn't know how bad the situation was. They didn't and were grateful for our help and cooperation. I think we made ourselves some friends!

[Deleted]

I don't know about your area but here in Texas we have a simple rule on trees.  If a property owner is unaware that his/her tree constitutes a danger to someone else's property or person, they are not liable for any damage said tree causes.  If however, the tree owner has been advised that the tree constitutes a threat, he/she is completely liable.  And most insurers will not pay a second liability claim for the same tree if the tree owner decides to hold on to good 'ole Miss Maple or Mr. Pine after it has caused one claim.  If Mr. Pine's branches take out the neighbor's Toyota SUV this year and take out the same neighbor's new Nissan SUV next year, tree owner is s.o.l. and on the hook for the Nissan.

We have our Eco Nazis here too.  I swear some seem to put tree lives over human lives and safety.