KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 20, 2015 22:55:07 GMT -5
I've been around since the old MSN boards - not exactly sure how long, but one of Liz's articles is what brought me to the boards. I'm not nearly as financially set as I'd like to be, but not because of this board. However - this board, the ENTIRE board (including the old one at MSN) is what I'm really thankful for. I ended up spending most of my time on Everything Else and found a connection to people I didn't have in real life. I read more than I posted (still do), but learned so much from so many people at different stages of life. I remember the original Picnic Thread, TD introducing Mich, the duct-tape wedding dress, and so many more threads that made up the heart of the board (outside of Money and Finances). But....what I will be forever grateful for - this community helped me salvage my relationship with my mom. Years ago, on the old MSN boards, there was a thread on parents. I don't remember what it was about, but it was one of the few threads I participated on. At the time, I was in my early thirties and still held a great deal of animosity towards my mom. I hated her as a child (even though I loved her because she was my mom) and a lot of that hate carried forward into adulthood and my own marriage and children. I vented some pretty hateful things about her on that thread - I couldn't understand WHY she acted the way she did and WHY she treated me the way she did. Someone - I don't remember who (although I think it was Rukh or Milee or someone with a similar posting style) posted a comment that single-handedly salvaged my relationship with my mom. They commented, "Your mom may not be doing things well, but have you ever considered that she's doing the best she can with what she was taught herself? Maybe she doesn't know how to be a mom because she didn't have someone who could teach her to be a mom." For some reason - that statement instantly changed how I viewed my mom. From all accounts I had of her (including from childhood friends, so not just from my mom), she had a horrible childhood with a mom who treated her more as a slave rather than as a daughter. From that point forward, I decided that I would forgive my mom for not being the mom *I* needed her to be, but rather to show her how to be a mom from my perspective. I started calling her every day just to see how her day was going. I invited her out shopping and to get our toes done. I sent her silly pictures on facebook (after introducing her to the site). My mom is/was estranged from her mom and family. Her mom, my grandmother, passed away this past weekend. Even though I didn't know my grandmother, because of this community and that person shifting my perspective, I was able to be there for my mom this weekend while she cried, laughed, vented and raged. I was able to absorb so much of her grief that I wouldn't have been able to do 10 years ago. I was able to hold my tongue and not say anything when her laments about her mom mirrors so much about how my mom still treats me to this day. I was able to understand completely how full circle life can be. Because of this community. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being who you are and offering so completely of yourselves. You mean so much to me in so many ways that I cannot articulate. From what I read, I see how much you mean to each other. Thank you.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 21, 2015 6:01:08 GMT -5
We love you, Kara. It may translate into "picking on you" but it's not. Our concern is genuine. Even if half of what you tell us is true, it sets up red flags. A lot of us have been in circumstances that are nothing to brag about and if we can help another person, we do. The bad thing about virtual is not being physically there. The good thing is anonymity.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on May 21, 2015 7:47:44 GMT -5
I've been around since the old MSN boards - not exactly sure how long, but one of Liz's articles is what brought me to the boards. I'm not nearly as financially set as I'd like to be, but not because of this board. However - this board, the ENTIRE board (including the old one at MSN) is what I'm really thankful for. I ended up spending most of my time on Everything Else and found a connection to people I didn't have in real life. I read more than I posted (still do), but learned so much from so many people at different stages of life. I remember the original Picnic Thread, TD introducing Mich, the duct-tape wedding dress, and so many more threads that made up the heart of the board (outside of Money and Finances). But....what I will be forever grateful for - this community helped me salvage my relationship with my mom. Years ago, on the old MSN boards, there was a thread on parents. I don't remember what it was about, but it was one of the few threads I participated on. At the time, I was in my early thirties and still held a great deal of animosity towards my mom. I hated her as a child (even though I loved her because she was my mom) and a lot of that hate carried forward into adulthood and my own marriage and children. I vented some pretty hateful things about her on that thread - I couldn't understand WHY she acted the way she did and WHY she treated me the way she did. Someone - I don't remember who (although I think it was Rukh or Milee or someone with a similar posting style) posted a comment that single-handedly salvaged my relationship with my mom. They commented, "Your mom may not be doing things well, but have you ever considered that she's doing the best she can with what she was taught herself? Maybe she doesn't know how to be a mom because she didn't have someone who could teach her to be a mom."For some reason - that statement instantly changed how I viewed my mom. From all accounts I had of her (including from childhood friends, so not just from my mom), she had a horrible childhood with a mom who treated her more as a slave rather than as a daughter. From that point forward, I decided that I would forgive my mom for not being the mom *I* needed her to be, but rather to show her how to be a mom from my perspective. I started calling her every day just to see how her day was going. I invited her out shopping and to get our toes done. I sent her silly pictures on facebook (after introducing her to the site). My mom is/was estranged from her mom and family. Her mom, my grandmother, passed away this past weekend. Even though I didn't know my grandmother, because of this community and that person shifting my perspective, I was able to be there for my mom this weekend while she cried, laughed, vented and raged. I was able to absorb so much of her grief that I wouldn't have been able to do 10 years ago. I was able to hold my tongue and not say anything when her laments about her mom mirrors so much about how my mom still treats me to this day. I was able to understand completely how full circle life can be. Because of this community. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being who you are and offering so completely of yourselves. You mean so much to me in so many ways that I cannot articulate. From what I read, I see how much you mean to each other. Thank you. wow.... I think it might be time to finally forgive my father.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 21, 2015 8:20:57 GMT -5
The thing about that is that it's best for you-if you can. I aired a lot of my grievances against my mom to her before she died. She tried to spin it but I said I needed to be heard whether she agreed or not. When she died, no, I didn't care but I was fairly okay as opposed to furious that she died and left me with angry feelings. Have I forgiven her? No. But I understand her and that helps me. My EX hated his father for doing to his family what he turned around and did to me and my kids. I should have seen it coming. My mom actually warned me but I was dumb enough to think he'd never do what was done to him. Well, not true. Just like abused children can grow up to be abusers. Some do, some don't. Only you can decide if you're willing to chance it.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on May 21, 2015 8:49:42 GMT -5
We love you, Kara. It may translate into "picking on you" but it's not. Our concern is genuine. Even if half of what you tell us is true, it sets up red flags. A lot of us have been in circumstances that are nothing to brag about and if we can help another person, we do. The bad thing about virtual is not being physically there. The good thing is anonymity. And this is precisely why I love this group! Regular posters all know Zib's posting style, then she zings us from left field with something like this, that is so on point I couldn't have said it better.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on May 21, 2015 9:12:23 GMT -5
Wow - Kara, that is such a lovely post. And making me think about my own situation. Due to a few new incidents in the past year or so, I've been avoiding my mother as much as possible, while she became increasingly manipulative to try and pull me back in. However, my mental state was not going to be influenced by that and I was extremely busy with going to school full time while working and traveling a bit for work. Now that the time pressures of that are off for the summer, I'm not sure how to handle it, and so I've just continued to be as uncommunicative as possible. It's interesting how you can go through it all with mental review and be full of forgiveness for a while, even a long while, but then something new happens that illustrates that while you are out of the situation and in your own life, that the essential dynamics about the past are unchanged. I'm still not sure how I am going to handle things, but I will be re-reading your post several times. Thank you. for me, it's a struggle between being the better person and moving forward and feeling like if I forgive him then I'm letting him off the hook.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on May 21, 2015 9:43:47 GMT -5
Wow - Kara, that is such a lovely post. And making me think about my own situation. Due to a few new incidents in the past year or so, I've been avoiding my mother as much as possible, while she became increasingly manipulative to try and pull me back in. However, my mental state was not going to be influenced by that and I was extremely busy with going to school full time while working and traveling a bit for work. Now that the time pressures of that are off for the summer, I'm not sure how to handle it, and so I've just continued to be as uncommunicative as possible. It's interesting how you can go through it all with mental review and be full of forgiveness for a while, even a long while, but then something new happens that illustrates that while you are out of the situation and in your own life, that the essential dynamics about the past are unchanged. I'm still not sure how I am going to handle things, but I will be re-reading your post several times. Thank you. for me, it's a struggle between being the better person and moving forward and feeling like if I forgive him then I'm letting him off the hook. I remind myself that forgiving is different than forgetting. It does take a bigger person to forgive.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on May 21, 2015 9:53:38 GMT -5
You know the point about doing the best they could or knew how hits pretty close to home. Not sure I'm at the place of forgiving and fixing the relationship though. I don't know that I'm brave enough, strong enough, whatever. I've been operating under the theory of you weren't there when I needed a mother so why should I let you in now? If it was just me, it might be easier. My brother is younger and once I was in college she was all about being involved with me while ignoring her child who lived five minutes away. That was my final straw. It came up once a couple years ago and she blamed it all on my dad.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 21, 2015 11:04:07 GMT -5
I don't forgive but I do understand. That's enough for me. It's what YOU need, if anything, from the relationship. I needed to be heard and I was. Did she agree? Certainly not. But that didn't matter to me. I got what I needed and it was going to be all about me.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on May 21, 2015 11:53:27 GMT -5
for me, it's a struggle between being the better person and moving forward and feeling like if I forgive him then I'm letting him off the hook. I'm struggling with this one too. I have a work friend - or at least I *thought* he was a friend - pull some crap that a true friend would never do. Consequently, I no longer consider him a friend. He has never apologized, nor will he, because he doesn't think he did anything wrong.
In his mind, nothing has changed. We're still as close as before. I consider that "closeness" to be all a lie now, but he just doesn't get it. And I find I just can't let it go. I guess I see it like MJ - that if I forgive, it makes it ok. It's not, and never will be. I sometimes miss that "friendship", but I just can't go back to it. The respect is gone.
What to do..... thank goodness I changed shifts (not related to this in any way), because at least I don't have to deal with him unless one of us covers a shift for the other day team.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 21, 2015 11:58:36 GMT -5
Sometimes a line is crossed and there's no going back.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on May 21, 2015 12:34:43 GMT -5
I think that's where I am, really. But I tell him to please pretend I'm dead and he just laughs and says he's not going to because we're friends.
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Jaguar
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Fear does not stop death. It stops life.
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Post by Jaguar on May 21, 2015 12:36:38 GMT -5
I think that's where I am, really. But I tell him to please pretend I'm dead and he just laughs and says he's not going to because we're friends. Ignore him completely, he ain't worth your time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2015 12:39:07 GMT -5
Forgiving does not make whatever was done okay. If it was okay forgiveness would not be required.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on May 21, 2015 13:00:15 GMT -5
Sugi, it's impossible to ignore him completely since we do have to work together. I can ignore texts, emails, and his calls at work (i can see it's him calling). But if we're working a shift together and he physically puts himself in my space, there's nothing I can do other than tell him I'm not interested in talking to him - which I do - but he'll ignore that too.
Later, yes I get that. But I'm still so angry that I can't do it (forgive). It's been a year, so part of me feels like I ought to be able to let it go. But I can't.
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Jaguar
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Post by Jaguar on May 21, 2015 13:03:57 GMT -5
Sugi, it's impossible to ignore him completely since we do have to work together. I can ignore texts, emails, and his calls at work (i can see it's him calling). But if we're working a shift together and he physically puts himself in my space, there's nothing I can do other than tell him I'm not interested in talking to him - which I do - but he'll ignore that too.
Later, yes I get that. But I'm still so angry that I can't do it (forgive). It's been a year, so part of me feels like I ought to be able to let it go. But I can't. I'm sorry he's getting into your space like that, that's awful. And I would be irritated beyond belief if someone wouldn't respect my space.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on May 21, 2015 13:07:00 GMT -5
It will hardly ever happen, now that we're on different shifts. I'll just ignore as much as possible.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 21, 2015 13:39:32 GMT -5
What's sad is that you've made it plain you're no longer friends but he can't accept that. It sounds like my EX who still tells our mutual friends that he thinks we are friends. They laugh their asses off while he looks surprised. It's amazing to me that's he surprised but then again, he's a sociopath.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on May 21, 2015 15:48:31 GMT -5
I'm on the "I can't forgive some people because to forgive feels like condoning the behavior" bench, too. And, to add insult to injury, there are those who try to tell me to "let it go" as if *I* am the one in the wrong, as if *I* am causing the wrongdoers some inconvenience or making them feel uncomfortable. I'm a fairly reasonable person. I don't go looking for trauma and drama, in fact, I avoid it, and the people who heaped it on me. So, I am not dragging anything on. I have moved on, AND moved, and am living MY life. I owe no one from that time anything. The people calling for me to "let it go" need to let it go.
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Icelandic Woman
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Post by Icelandic Woman on May 21, 2015 15:58:37 GMT -5
I'd be a bit less crazy.
i've only met a few people - icelandic woman, lilominx, kit (all live in CO), irishpad, and msbuffy. But in about 2 weeks, i'll be meeting Azaziel and his family from Australia (he's on icey's board), and susala i think. plus others i've met before may be coming again.
next year i'll be in wisconsin (milwaukee area) for my son's wedding, but i don't know who's there. So much
I wouldn't have my wonderful trivia family! And I was so lucky to meet Moonie and even luckier that she lives just 15 minutes from me. She has helped me so much with my board.
I now have more board friends than I do real life ones and I defo interact with them more than I do my real life friends. I have also met Irishpad, Liloleminx and msbuffy and will be meeting Azaziel, his family and Susula in 2 weeks too! And probably more next year as our whocanibe is planning on making the trip across the pond from the UK!
Money has never been my thing and I have been digging myself out of a financial mess for quite a few years now. I am finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel and will probably be asking Phil for some advice soon. I do enjoy reading all of your different life adventures and financial situations and resolutions.
Oh and yes I probably would get more done at work too. LOL
BTW Moonie, msbuffy lives in Milwaukee.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on May 21, 2015 16:29:04 GMT -5
How did I forget that, icey? Not sure what kind of extra time we'll even have, but I'll definitely touch base with her then.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on May 21, 2015 17:16:54 GMT -5
I think if you can forgive someone, then you can become indifferent to them, and they cannot hurt you (or at least, not as much).
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msventoux
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Post by msventoux on May 21, 2015 17:44:47 GMT -5
I don't know. I'm pretty indifferent to a couple of people and don't engage them, but I haven't forgiven them either since they show no signs of remorse or understanding of my viewpoint.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on May 21, 2015 18:09:25 GMT -5
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KaraBoo
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Post by KaraBoo on May 21, 2015 20:33:34 GMT -5
Wow - Kara, that is such a lovely post. And making me think about my own situation. Due to a few new incidents in the past year or so, I've been avoiding my mother as much as possible, while she became increasingly manipulative to try and pull me back in. However, my mental state was not going to be influenced by that and I was extremely busy with going to school full time while working and traveling a bit for work. Now that the time pressures of that are off for the summer, I'm not sure how to handle it, and so I've just continued to be as uncommunicative as possible. It's interesting how you can go through it all with mental review and be full of forgiveness for a while, even a long while, but then something new happens that illustrates that while you are out of the situation and in your own life, that the essential dynamics about the past are unchanged. I'm still not sure how I am going to handle things, but I will be re-reading your post several times. Thank you. for me, it's a struggle between being the better person and moving forward and feeling like if I forgive him then I'm letting him off the hook. Please don't misunderstand my post - I was expressing my appreciation for this board, not advocating to "forgive and/or forget" those who have done us wrong - especially when abuse is involved. My mom never abused me (well....not entirely true - I dealt with and still deal with emotional abuse from her), but rather she treated me more like she had been treated, only with more "perks". She doesn't see the emotional abuse because she was so conditioned to it as a child it is normal for her. So how she treats me seems normal to her. I've talked with her about getting counseling for herself, but apparently the memories are so horrible for her that she doesn't want to dig them back up and refuses to go to counseling - she'll change the subject whenever it is brought up. What I have forgiven her for is that she wasn't the mom I wanted. She COULDN'T be the mom I wanted, still CAN'T be the the mom I want, because she doesn't know what that looks like. She's been so emotionally damaged, that her defense has been to block out that period from her memory to the best of her ability. I have forgiven her for taking that path - the path that she thought she needed to take to keep herself safe. I do not forget how she treated me back then and still treats me to this day. I call her out on her comments and let her know they are hurtful. I point out when she's treating me differently than she treats my brother (we both see and recognize this). I point out how she treats my kids is wrong. I try to do it in a loving and logical manner because of her history, but I don't let her get away with continuing the emotional abuse. But I do forgive her for it. I see how she struggles with learning a new path - and how the path seems foreign to her and her uncertainty that changing will make a difference. I see her understand how hurtful it is....and still relapse into old ways because of habit, not because of any intent to cause harm. So, I forgive her....and love her anyway....and try to break the habits I have learned from her so my own kids don't suffer (which I apparently have failed at as well....maybe one day they can forgive me). I was able to listen on Saturday to her rant about her experiences, the same things she still does to me, but without me pointing that out. It wasn't the time or the place to put that burden on her, but rather to allow her to release whatever burden she's been carrying all of these years. It was because of this community....and that one post that changed how I looked at my mom....that allowed me to do that. One day I'll probably point out the inconsistencies again....but now is not that time. Now is the time to allow her to grieve...and continue grieving. Make no mistake - she makes me mad and I do call her out on her quirks. But I love her and I know she's always wanted the best for me - she just doesn't know how to express it. Please don't think for a moment that I want any of you to attempt to mend relationships with people who have seriously hurt you. That's not my point at all. My point is that I'm so thankful that we, this community of imaginary people living in our computers, are here for each other and are "family".
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 21, 2015 21:53:49 GMT -5
Wow - Kara, that is such a lovely post. And making me think about my own situation. Due to a few new incidents in the past year or so, I've been avoiding my mother as much as possible, while she became increasingly manipulative to try and pull me back in. However, my mental state was not going to be influenced by that and I was extremely busy with going to school full time while working and traveling a bit for work. Now that the time pressures of that are off for the summer, I'm not sure how to handle it, and so I've just continued to be as uncommunicative as possible. It's interesting how you can go through it all with mental review and be full of forgiveness for a while, even a long while, but then something new happens that illustrates that while you are out of the situation and in your own life, that the essential dynamics about the past are unchanged. I'm still not sure how I am going to handle things, but I will be re-reading your post several times. Thank you. for me, it's a struggle between being the better person and moving forward and feeling like if I forgive him then I'm letting him off the hook. I think that being the better person and moving forward doesn't always mean that you have to be in deep/meaningful relationship with that person. I do try to honor my parents in a way that is safe for me. I had to move forward, with my life and make myself better. If I didn't, I risked losing too much: my marriage, my children, myself. Forgiveness is for ourselves, I think, more than the other person.. .. I have found acceptance from understanding. But that's as far as I go. I still find there's no excuse for their behavior. My mom had choices. She knew how to use her nice words, and knew exactly what she was doing when she directed some of her egregious behavior towards me.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on May 22, 2015 0:24:08 GMT -5
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 22, 2015 0:52:41 GMT -5
for me, it's a struggle between being the better person and moving forward and feeling like if I forgive him then I'm letting him off the hook. I think that being the better person and moving forward doesn't always mean that you have to be in deep/meaningful relationship with that person. I do try to honor my parents in a way that is safe for me. I had to move forward, with my life and make myself better. If I didn't, I risked losing too much: my marriage, my children, myself. Forgiveness is for ourselves, I think, more than the other person.. .. I have found acceptance from understanding. But that's as far as I go. I still find there's no excuse for their behavior. My mom had choices. She knew how to use her nice words, and knew exactly what she was doing when she directed some of her egregious behavior towards me. So much this!!!
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on May 22, 2015 3:06:03 GMT -5
I don't have any stories of being saved by knowledge learned here. Hell, when I was in college I put money in the bank off of my financial aid check, and have never carried a credit-card balance in my life.
I do have to say this though. Every time I see this thread title I start hearing:
It's a wonderful message board after all It's a wonderful message board after all It's a wonderful message board after all It's a wonderful, wonderful board
If I were to suddenly become afflicted with "Virgilism" I might rewrite some more appropriate lyrics too, incorporating names and quirks of posters. One person like that on a board seems sufficient though, don't you think? So you (all who shared how much MSN and now ProBoards has meant to you) are stuck with the (almost) original verse.
It's a board of laughter, a board of tears It's a board of hopes and a board of fears There's so much that we share that it's time we're aware It's a wonderful board after all
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 8:30:28 GMT -5
You know the point about doing the best they could or knew how hits pretty close to home. Not sure I'm at the place of forgiving and fixing the relationship though. I don't know that I'm brave enough, strong enough, whatever. I've been operating under the theory of you weren't there when I needed a mother so why should I let you in now? If it was just me, it might be easier. My brother is younger and once I was in college she was all about being involved with me while ignoring her child who lived five minutes away. That was my final straw. It came up once a couple years ago and she blamed it all on my dad. I don't know what turns this thread has taken, but I wanted to point out that forgiving doesn't mean you have to try to mend the relationship. Forgiving is something you do for yourself, not the relationship or the other person. It's basically just deciding that "what this person did was f*&*%d up, but I'm going to let go of the negative feelings I've been harboring in my heart". If you still feel like you need to protect yourself from that person or you just don't like them, it's ok to still stay away from them. The whole point is for YOU to let it go and move forward with your life without dragging all that baggage (hurt, sadness, anger, whatever) along with you.
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